December Tour 2014, rules, discussions, criticisms!

[Pokemon Club]

Always the same rules I think

Tour limits:
10-14 days with max. 1 rest day and max. 1 day with 2 half-stages.

No extrem tour:
No extrem mountainous tour like Anden or an extrem cobbles-tour like sachsen or an extrem flat tour like Vuelta a Bolivia 2013

Design Time :
until 31.October.

Presentation in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&p=82344#p82344

Here we can discuss, praise, criticize etc all the presented tours!

[Robyklebt]

And I'd like to propose a new voting system!

First round: Instead of 1 vote per user, changeable, like in the last years, I'd like to have more votes per user, depending on the total amount of tours proposed. And not changeable.
For example like this, total amount of tours divided by 3, cut everything behind the comma.
So last year: 11/3, 3,66, so 3 votes per user. So, up to 5 tours 1 vote, 6-9 2 votes, 10-12 3 votes etc. Could be changed, maybe 2 votes earlier than from 6 tours, but the principle counts.

The reason: Similar tours take away each others vote in the first round. Then we might get an effort to get votes of the similar tours to one of the tours, to ensure that it passes the round (there was such an action per PM last year, it didn't succeed finally.)And in the end we get strange pairings for the second round and final vote. Example the year Yemen won. IMO the opponent in the second round was not a good tour. And many shared that believe, so Yemen won easily. While in the first round we had 2 nice but similar tours from Central America that took away each others votes, in the end neither reaching the second round. With my proposal very likely one of the 2 tours would have been in the final, with pretty good chances for the win too (although I do think Yemen was better, grrrr) Or maybe even both in the second round. Which would have been a better and more open choice than the second round we got.

If the explanation is unclear... I can try again tomorrow

[Hunsrueck]

I've never heard of Auzealand or Auzieland.

[lennylenny]

I've never heard of Auzealand or Auzieland.

Some explanations will follow, but it is a tour in Australia (Aussie) and New Zealand

[Pokemon Club]

It is the time for designers to create the biggest event of winter : the December Tour !

The winning tour will be played in December, the runner-up in January (rules and discussion : viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4378)

The rules for this topic are simple:

Simple rule: One post per tour (all the profiles + description etc), and the discussion will be in the other topic

Now design your best tours !

the tour must have 14 days max with 1 day for rest day, and 1 day with 2 semi stages are allowed (see past years December tour rules )

I've never heard of Auzealand or Auzieland.

Some explanations will follow, but it is a tour in Australia (Aussie) and New Zealand

Discussion in the other post, so thanks to delete or move, SM, Hunsureck, lenny or Poke posts which have no reason to be here .

[Hunsrueck]

Bla..bla..bla ..
My question was referring to the post from Lenny, so stay calm

[Pokemon Club]

Bla..bla..bla ..
My question was referring to the post from Lenny, so stay calm

And like I said, it isn't the good place for your question as it isn't the good place for my answer.

[Hunsrueck]

And like I said, it isn't the good place for your question

that's your opinion and must not necessarily be my.
i think it is the best place to ask a question about race directly

[Robyklebt]

The question/answer and following discussion moved here.

As Poke wrote, that thread is for the presentation and profiles only (text in the presentation post of course ok)
The reason is simple, keep the thread "übersichtlich" (google translate says "clear" for english, not convinced really, but ok). So it's easy to see all the proposed tours.
If we start discussing there it simply becomes a mess, 1 tour, x posts, another tour, another x posts, maybe about the first tour, then another 2 tours, in between again x posts... If it was just the few posts we had now and then nothing more... .no real problem, but if it becomes 2-3 pages for 5-10 tours (hope we get those).... a pain to get a look at all tours then.
So we've always had one thread for the presentation only, and this one here for comments, questions etc.


Ah, I have a question to lenny too:
Can you post some percentages? Last x km, or when the last 6+ is etc. To be able to better judge what will happen in the race.

[lennylenny]

The question/answer and following discussion moved here.

As Poke wrote, that thread is for the presentation and profiles only (text in the presentation post of course ok)
The reason is simple, keep the thread "übersichtlich" (google translate says "clear" for english, not convinced really, but ok). So it's easy to see all the proposed tours.
If we start discussing there it simply becomes a mess, 1 tour, x posts, another tour, another x posts, maybe about the first tour, then another 2 tours, in between again x posts... If it was just the few posts we had now and then nothing more... .no real problem, but if it becomes 2-3 pages for 5-10 tours (hope we get those).... a pain to get a look at all tours then.
So we've always had one thread for the presentation only, and this one here for comments, questions etc.


Ah, I have a question to lenny too:
Can you post some percentages? Last x km, or when the last 6+ is etc. To be able to better judge what will happen in the race.

i do that step by step, but i dont have much time now, i will go on holiday tomorrow, there i will find some time

[Robyklebt]

Wäääääääääääääääääääää, Poke!

First, Sri Lanka was much nicer than freezing Japan! 2012 I mean, Okinawa on the other hand no problem
Second... ehm, I'm not really sure, but didn't stuff like ' create bugs in the finance page in the past (don't ask me why) and you seem to have used some ' I don't know where to find, ah, maybe just a `?
Anyway... maybe ask leso if those special characters are still an issue?

[Pokemon Club]

Wäääääääääääääääääääää, Poke!

First, Sri Lanka was much nicer than freezing Japan! 2012 I mean, Okinawa on the other hand no problem
Second... ehm, I'm not really sure, but didn't stuff like ' create bugs in the finance page in the past (don't ask me why) and you seem to have used some ' I don't know where to find, ah, maybe just a `?
Anyway... maybe ask leso if those special characters are still an issue?

Hum I substitues all ' (4) by ` (alt gr +7), but if there is risk there is bug I can just out special characters, it will be simply like that.

[cataracs]

keep the thread of voting at the top can make it more easier I think, viva THAAAAAAAAILAND

[sylvainmeteo]

Stages 1, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12 and 13 are transformed into 1 day races (for this off season I hope)

[Pokemon Club]

Stages 1, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12 and 13 are transformed into 1 day races (for this off season I hope)

Good, but which tour will contest for the January Tour ? ART lose vote between the 2 round, maybe others tours have theirs chance to win.

[luques]

Stages 1, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12 and 13 are transformed into 1 day races (for this off season I hope)

Good, but which tour will contest for the January Tour ? ART lose vote between the 2 round, maybe others tours have theirs chance to win.

Bah, contest winner in December, and runner-up in January just keep it.

So I don't see reason to change it.

[Pokemon Club]

Stages 1, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12 and 13 are transformed into 1 day races (for this off season I hope)

Good, but which tour will contest for the January Tour ? ART lose vote between the 2 round, maybe others tours have theirs chance to win.

Bah, contest winner in December, and runner-up in January just keep it.

So I don't see reason to change it.

When there is a big difference with others tours. Here ART should be at least in competition with Thai Tour, only 2 vote difference during the first round, and ART gain 0 votes during the 2nd round, IMO there is no reason to have this tour automatically as January Tour

[lesossies]

Do you open the January tour contest ?

[luques]

Stages 1, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12 and 13 are transformed into 1 day races (for this off season I hope)

Good, but which tour will contest for the January Tour ? ART lose vote between the 2 round, maybe others tours have theirs chance to win.

Bah, contest winner in December, and runner-up in January just keep it.

So I don't see reason to change it.

When there is a big difference with others tours. Here ART should be at least in competition with Thai Tour, only 2 vote difference during the first round, and ART gain 0 votes during the 2nd round, IMO there is no reason to have this tour automatically as January Tour

True, but then it should be Thai Tour vs ART (like we did last year), no more. Otherwise there is no sense to give 2 votes at the first round...

[Pokemon Club]

Bah, contest winner in December, and runner-up in January just keep it.

So I don't see reason to change it.

When there is a big difference with others tours. Here ART should be at least in competition with Thai Tour, only 2 vote difference during the first round, and ART gain 0 votes during the 2nd round, IMO there is no reason to have this tour automatically as January Tour

True, but then it should be Thai Tour vs ART (like we did last year), no more. Otherwise there is no sense to give 2 votes at the first round...

I am agree.

Do you open the January tour contest ?

After Mosca and OL cut 2 stages of their tours ?

[Moscow Team Pro]

[cataracs]

I will post my January tour , can I ?

[olmania]

In the preview, I saw that we have 12 days in the calendar for January Tour. So I decide to withdraw of my tour 1 stage + the rest day.
Stage withdrawn is stage 2 because of its lenght due to the removal of the restday http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f and also because I want to keep the balance for the GK with the TT and mountain stages, and let some flat stages for sprinters teams as well.

We have left this tour with 12 stages in that order :
(Later when I have time I will adapt names of stages and altitude graph with the new tool of the editor that allows a min altitude higher than 0meter).

Stage 1

186kms, Hilly
Mintackt : km152
Last sieb (6% and >) : km 155
Comment : A very steep hill in the middle of the stage (5 kms at 11.6%) where lots of things can happen. Last long climb is not very steep and with many flatish parts.



Stage 2

180kms, Hilly
Mintackt : km159
Last sieb : km173
Comment : Along Lake Kivu, it's up and down non stop. Even if not so steep all the time, this will affect riders at some point. And who knows, someone could have offensive ideas for such a day !



Stage 3

35kms, TT
Mintakt : km1
Last sieb : (irrelevant)
Comment : We are on Lake Kivu, in the Idjwi island ! A 35kms long time trial is waiting the riders here ! The really hilly profile especially in the first 2/3 of the TT will make it not so easy to manage !



Stage 4

161kms, HC Mountain
Mintakt : km120
Last sieb : km147
Comment : We go on the West side of Lake Kivu for the start of that Fifth stage. Stage is hilly in its first part with some steep parts in the firts climbs of the day, then, it get's more flatish until the end of the stage. Last Cat3 climb is 9% steep (2kms) and followed by 13kms of downhill, climbers that gave too much energy in the TT the day before could regret it and loose contact here !



Stage 5

183kms, Flat
Mintakt : km163
Last sieb : km8
Comment : Flat stage in the valley North of Taganyika Lake. No difficulty, last km is 1%, a sprint or a break-away should make it.




Stage 6

213kms, Hilly
mintakt : km 201
Last sieb : km140
Comment : A long stage to start second part of ART. Going through mountains in North West of Burundi, Up and down non stop, before the last section, a long downhill/flat part to Bujumbura. A stage where it's possible to see team make some moves from really far, or if the race is calm in the mountains, we could see a fight between different kind of sprinters !



Stage 7

176kms, Flat
mintakt : km156
Last sieb : km22
Comment : A loop in the mountains next to Bujumbura before 150kms along Taganyika Lake to the South. Last 10kms are a bit more hilly, but nothing to scare pure sprinters, finish still in Burundi but close to Tanzanian border !




Stage 8

175kms, HC Berg
mintackt : km157
Last Sieb : Last km
Comment : Hard mountain stage, all in Burundi ! Up a down all way long, with some flatish parts. Final climb in 2 parts, with a final km at 15% ! Big time difference could happen here if the fight starts early in the stage !




Stage 9

207kms, Hilly
mintackt : km176
Last sieb : km191
Comment : From South to North, from Burundi to Rwanda, country of hills ! And you can feel these smalls hills on the road, steep ones from km80 to km160, and soft ones at the end, still enough to make that stage a trap one ! Really open scenario here !



Stage 10

190Kms, flat
mintackt : km 176
Last sieb : Only 5% on the way, no close from the finish line
Comment : A stage without big difficulties, even if it's flat, it's still a bit up and down (without sieb), sprinter's should have it in Kigali on stage 11, because the day after, sprinters won't have it in Kigali !



Stage 11

112kms, HC Berg
mitackt : km1
Last sieb : km111
Comment : Is it the king stage ? Impossible to know it in advance, but what is pretty sure is that this stage will be spectacular and that everything can happen here ! Semi Urban circuit to ride two times, with steep climbs on the way, the valley parts are quite short. Expect fast, hard and crazy race. 1Min/km all stage long for managers !




Stage 12

192kms, Flat
Mintakt : km168
Last sieb : km114
Comment : A flat stage to finish this tour, but not a totally flat one, few siebs possible in the first 114kms, and the final circuit is a bit hilly ! Teams might be tired after the mountain festival in Kigali, that final circuit might be stressful for some sprinters/gk contenders !



Detail of stages here :

http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
(not accurate for January) http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f (withdrawn)
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f
http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ension=c4f