Calendar 2011

[Robyklebt]

Just some things I would like to see in 2011

1 More D5-6 races

Tours and 1 day races. We had bits of this often, start offering more D5-6 tours, than dries up again. D5-6 races regularly, then dries up again. Probably lots of work for Leso, but still would be nice to have. Give the new guys (and some other guys who hang around there for mysterious reasons) more chances to fight for wins. See the vote for the "newcomer" of the year. Never had as few newcomers that made an impact as this year. That's not automatically because they are weaker than newcomers of 2008/2009 etc. but because there just are more good teams ahead of them. Give them more chances where they can win, earn money get experience as more than filling material.
a) One tour a month roughly, sometimes maybe even 2, depends on the calendar a bit of course. And maybe sometimes a d4-6 or even D3-6 race would be ok. Maybe even a D6 only tour once. Should be 2.2 tours around the world. Of course often we don't have the data to design them, but there's many of them around. Maybe sometimes even a 2.1 tour could get the D5-6, probably better D4-6 or 3-6 classification, Amissa Bongo for example, where there are some elite teams participating every year, but usually just 1-2. The rest: 2.2 and if we can't find anything for that month, a fantasy tour. One time, max 2, D5-6.

b) Regularly an extra time for one day races but only for D5-6. Same race as the race programmed that day, but if possible not high category. Here just D5-6 seems enough.

Luna posted something that seems to go in a similar direction in another thread, didn't really understand it, maybe he can explain it here.

2 Categories, Categories

Yes, the damn categories have to fit.We shouldn't have things like Rond om Nokere, which has pavé, yes, that's why we all like it, as cat 3, same for Tro BonBon whatever, they both simply are not very important races, perfect cat 2 races and have an important race like Scheldeprijs at cat 3 too.

[Luna]

Luna posted something that seems to go in a similar direction in another thread, didn't really understand it, maybe he can explain it here.

I mean roughly the same. More races with Div restrictions. A regular calendar for lower divs, so that they cannot complain anymore about being disadvantaged in terms of riders on offer while being forced to compete against the "big" teams.

10 or more days per month where they can stay by themselves. Or sometime giving them the choice between riding for low points and prize money against each other or bravely trying to survive in an "elite" free-for-all race or such.
Or even vice versa: Giving the higher divs the choice between racing Div 1-4 (or even tighter) races or free-for-all races. Again with different prize money and ranking points.

More variety.

Yes, that would mean many days with at least one race more than we are used to. But the fantasy race production seems to work well. I think we could have enough races for that.

Maybe race designers should be instructed to draw some races only for lower divs (in order to avoid disappointments about downgrades of a race that would be loved to be seen open for all, or at least open for the drawer himself or herself).

That's what I meant when talking about category revolution. At the moment every fantasy race is cat 1 and open for all. But when installing a lower div race series would demand more categories for fantasy races. One open for all, one restricted for some. One giving full prizemonmey and points, the other with lower rewards but with more comoparable competition.

[Robyklebt]

Mmh, IMO money has to stay the same.

[auxilium torino]

I see that un calender we have more race of last year!

Leso, have you a chance to give another colours at the provvisory race, por example COPPI E BARTALI(in calender is 2010 version).
i think that is better, for designer and for the manager.
Thanks

[RohrheimRadler]

Coppi e Bartali is the 2011 version, it came online 2 days ago, and I designed it.

But to make it easier to designate, what will be designed and what is already online, perhaps keep the first post in the Calendar Organisation up to date, like adding, who will design a race, and mark it red, when it is designed.

[Luna]

I see that un calender we have more race of last year!

Leso, have you a chance to give another colours at the provvisory race,

I like that

[auxilium torino]

I see that un calender we have more race of last year!

Leso, have you a chance to give another colours at the provvisory race, por example COPPI E BARTALI(in calender is 2010 version).
i think that is better, for designer and for the manager.
Thanks

leso, ist das möglich??es tut mir leid, aber ich verstehe nicht mehr, was ist neu, und was ist nicht...für die team das sich anmelden mussen, wäre auch gut zu wissen ob die strecke bleibt so, oder wird geändert(bzw. kann geändert werden)
ich glaube zb, du hast Coppi von 2010, bin aber nicht sicher

Ich freue mich auf ein antwort

ps.entschuldiging, aber in mom hab ich kein kopf die ganze auf english

hier ein kleine beispiel wie ich mich vorstellen kann

rennen das in kalender fest stehen(die profile sind die neuestes) in leicht blue(wie jetzt)
rennen das in kalender kommen, aber die profile aus 2010 oder fruher sind, und die neue noch gezeichnet werden muss in gelb
rennen, das provvisorisch da stehen, aber gestrichen werden konnen(zb fantasy rennen, in tages womoglich 1-2 RL wichtiges rennen kommen, oder rennen das der profile noch nicht gezeichnet ist!) in grün.

[lesossies]

Ich werde mal sehen was ich machen kann.
Habe für April im Forum die schon gezeichnete Rennen in grün markiert.
Für den Rest habe ich noch keinen Plan, es kommt noch.

[auxilium torino]

Ich werde mal sehen was ich machen kann.
Habe für April im Forum die schon gezeichnete Rennen in grün markiert.
Für den Rest habe ich noch keinen Plan, es kommt noch.

In forum ist gut,aber ich meinte ,in kalender auf C4F...
konnte es du uns sagen welche rennen und RF, in moment sind noch die altes version?
Danke

[lesossies]

For whom who are interested the calendar vorview for 2011 is online:

http://www.radsportfreaks.com/radsport/racecalendar.xls

The PDF Vorview for April 2011:

http://www.radsportfreaks.com/radsport/ ... l_2011.pdf

[Robyklebt]

Ok, I come back here:

D5+6 races are needed more.

More and more editions, the teams spread out. Fewer groups 2. There might be some for the Giro for example, yes, but that will very likely be D3 splits somewhere. (just guessing) But right now for beginners in my opinion (and I'm almost a beginner too after all) it's very difficult. 15 Mio and then sometimes they will still be in group one. Where with their teams they won't really have a chance. Sometimes group 2, but there too you'll find d3 etc teams too often. And again, then the D6 teams especially, but D5 often too just won't really have big chances. Yes, the really good ones will make their way like that too, but not everybody is a natural RSF genius. And for the average RSF user, that might become a very good RSF manager in a year or 2, it must be demotivating to just lose and lose and lose and lose and lose regularly every day, without really having a chance.

So:

Restart that thing.

Every second/3 day, one extra edition, one day race, D5-6. Every day ok too, but just 2-3 times a week would be a start.
Going into Lunas direction ok too, although not completely convinced with everything, the general direction yes. Detailed discussion to be had during or after the Giro....

For the moment: Same race (or a different one ok) ever 2-3 days, at an extra time, D5+6, same money and points.
So instead of 10-15-18-21-23 for example, make it 10-15-18-21-22D5+6 23 that day. The next time in the morning, rotating basically. Down to 5 one day races a day again, sometimes it's more now, add the D5-6 one.


Then: D5-6 Tours. That ones different ones than D1-4 or open ones. For example the polish thing would have been perfect. IMO it's laughable to see 2 D2 teams and one D3 team in a race like that, like at 12h. Close those clearly lower cat races, and compared to the Giro and Dunkerque it is very low cat to D1-4, let D5-6 get their wins. Yes, some specialists like Mangahn will get an erection now, a huge dominating win with a bunch of 21 year olds further proving the unrivalled class of their teams.. but so what. Just ignore those guys, like I do, I'm very good at that, sometimes even manage a post without mentioning Mr Integrity. But let them have their tours. Doesn't matter if some experienced "fake" D5ers will then dominate occasionally. With the open races it's just D2 teams that will get the huge cash and win bonus. But their will be less Manghis than D2ers the normal D5-6ers chances will increase. Let them race among themselves in tours too.

Then, let the Div restrictions be visible not only on the inscription page, but on the normal calendar one too. So for D5-6 tours, clearly visible in the overview, for separate different 1 day races as well, the ones with an open edition, well, just free/D5-6

Yes, I know you have lots to do and this is more work, plus whatever you do you get verbally beaten up by everybody, including the ape (who of course is always right when he hits you with a mercyless barrage of criticism) by now you probably regret not giving your second born son away when he was born, but well, that's life.... too late now I guess to give him away... maybe Bergwerk accepts to adopt him? You can ask...

Get the D5-6 guys their races, where they can ride like they won't to (without having to deal with everybody telling them that they ride like noobs..) where they can ride for the win. Not force them, if they want the open races, that's ok, but offer the possibility, regularly for one day races, 1-2 a month with small tours.

[lesossies]

Div 5-6 races

For me the best solution would be to let the program decide if and at which time a race would be only for div5-6.

I could start with one day races with a 33-50% chance that one ot these races be only for div5-6.

A change of the program is the safest way what I don´t forget it again.

[Robyklebt]

Mmh.. ok?

That would mean you programm 5 races then one of them is chosen to be D5-6 by chance?
So every time one time would not have the one day race, which is not perfect either I think. Make the programm so that if that 33-50% chance happens, it adds one more race somewhere as D5-6!

[lesossies]

Mmh.. ok?

That would mean you programm 5 races then one of them is chosen to be D5-6 by chance?
So every time one time would not have the one day race, which is not perfect either I think. Make the programm so that if that 33-50% chance happens, it adds one more race somewhere as D5-6!

That´s a good idea
I´ll look how I random it for the time start of this supplement race.

[Robyklebt]

That´s a good idea

No need to write that after I write something It's always like that

But sounds good if you can implement it without too much work.

[Radunion]

As you repeat yourself in demanding races for div 5-6 I repeat myself in saying I do not like them. Let the teams decide what they want to ride. If there is a low profile tour while 2 more important tours are running you cannot expect many good teams (without any restriction). I would not like it if I cannot ride certain races or at a certain time because I achieved to promote to div 4.

And you do not learn to ride in fields with very weak teams, you learn to ride if you try to fight an experienced team controlling the race.

[Rockstar Inc]

No big classics and GTs for Div6-X!!!!!

No Cat6 for Div 5!!!!

[Buhmann]

Don´t know where a perfect thread for this exist...

But i juste wanted to say, that the last days was very boring. Why wasn´t there any alternative? Every day only one race. And why not a small tour?

[Pirkio]

I think this is becouse some teams buy some strong racers so the team cost 500.000 or more so they don't ride and other don't care about this becouse haven't form for this days after the 2 good tours at the start of the month

[Robyklebt]

Always complaining this Buhmann, what's next, he'll tell us that as a paying customer he deserves fantasy tours whenever he wants one?


Why no tour, simple, no stage race in reality.. was the nc weekend, so obviously nobody in his right mind is going to run a stage race at that time. leso could have added a fantasy race from monday on.. .but a) most nc teams dead. b) leave the fantasy tours out of the calendar as much as possible during the real season. So good thing leso did!

[Buhmann]

But there was many similar races. Why not a few mountain races?

[Robyklebt]

I thought it was ok actually... today there is a mountain race, no?

[auxilium torino]

in moment all draw only Tour, and nobody intresting to draw oneday race...2 WT race must be drawed, butr everybody want only draw shit uninteressant tour..please, one day race are also important...

[Robyklebt]

Ok, doesn't fit August, doesn't fit September completely, but both a bit, so I post it here.

Races raced by teams by divisions

d1 28
d2 36
d3 41
d4 39
d5 245
d6 426

So, if I calculated everything correctly, 815 teams have ridden races at rsf so far in August.

More than half of them are in D6. Of those 426 teams 188 have raced 5 or more races.

Yes, some of them might be second or third accounts, yes, some of them might be first accounts, but are offline anyway. But the fact remains that RSF is growing at a fairly fast rate right now, good job Buhmann btw. Now get those guys to pay...
Anyway
In the first 10 days of August 426 teams in d6 ride. That means.

We should have enough users to make a D6 tour. Which is even better than a d5-6 tour for beginners, since there won't be strong experienced D5 teams. And as long the growth rate stays where it seems to be know there is no reason not to offer 1 or even 2 of those per month. Maybe 1 D6 and one D5-6.

Until the Vuelta starts to me the calendar seems full as it is, so maybe better nothing there.

Then we have the following races, all open.

22-28 we have the Colorado thing,
23-26 Poitou (designed by OL I think, but not online yet)
31-3 Settimana Lombarda, details not online yet.

Why not try to fit in a D6 tour somewhere there 4-5 days, not more, balanced tour, not a pure sprinters/classic/climbers tour. Just add a fantasy tour, you should have many left, for D6 somewhere around there, maybe 29-1/2 or something.

Same in September

First, of course Hokkaido would be a perfect D5-6 or only D6 tour too. 16-19. Then early in the month, another 4-5 day fantasy tour only for D6. 3-7 or something similar.

But get those D6 guys their own races from time to time. Yes, not all want it, but many do. How often do you read, shit, group 1, how boring, will have no chance now. The level? Ah, leso, remember the early races, February 2006 or so? We rode like pigs too, if we did a race like that now there would be 50 fairness threads opened... some of those early guys have kind of developed their tactics since then I think. Give the newcomers the chance to make their experiences in a group where all have roughly the same experience too.

Anyway, offer D6 only races, and some D5-6 ones as well. Fantasy races ok, good. 4-5 days, not longer, so not to eat all their race points. Real ones would be ok too, see Hokkaido, others, like Aosta, some strange stuff in Iran, Avenir, doubt we'd manage to design them, otherwise why not, even if Aosta as a mountain specialist tour is maybe not perfect, but then why not, we liked mountaineous tours in the beginning too. Avenir maybe a bit long, but if somebody designs it, why not... but D6 or D5-6.

But RSF really needs to let its newcomers develop their skills in a more or less even group. That means restricted races.

Do it.

[NoPikouze]

Agreed excepted for pure D6 races. I doubt they will develop any skills there is they are in 100% "pig" groups. And to get them to pay for the game
I believe D5-6 would be better, at least some people will be around who can give advice and who can tell the rules.
But give D5-6 their own tours/times, yes.

What is your opinion ?