To do for newcomers (for the Falcor newcomer wave)

[Robyklebt]

Can someone open a thread to collect the most urgent changes (e.g. Div 6 races, welcome message, etc.). Then I can think about those changes and do at least some with low effort.

I'm probably the wrong guy to open this since it will include stuff that won't be popular. Admins feel free to edit it out of my post if you feel it isn't needed (but quote it in the following post please)
Will try to add things in the first post that other add here, but again, others with the rights can do that too.

Welcome message: Provided by FL

Dear new players, welcome to cycling4freaks!

We're happy about all the new registrations for the game recently. Nevertheless, as this has been a small not profit game led by the community itself, we ask you to be patient if there are any problems in the beginning.

For questions about the game, we recommend you to read the manual, use the general chat and the forum, where you will find helpful and experience players to answer them.

As a start, check out the quick guide how to start the game in the forum: viewtopic.php?f=17&p=128611#p128611

Have fun!

-Races with division restrictions. IMO no need to then use it every day, but offer the newcomers their own editions, D6 only every 2 or so days. Maybe some days D5-6 too? They can profit from in race help too. IMO most important.

-Re introduce the D6a by whatever name. Teams with under 1500 eternal points are there. Different market. No cheapened riders. You don't want to deal with something so advanced already.

-20 millions without a minimum of riders that have to be bought was a mistake. 15 millions was of course perfectly fine, 9 riders that need to be bought, there was a reason Buh made it like that. New team are in covered salary (9 riders races, nowadays with 8 a bit different) Today 14h race:
Group 1, newcomer with 414k salary, 8 riders in team.
Group 2, 19 teams: 446 and 412, 8 riders in team 6 under 335k, 6 up to 365k
Group 3 17 teams: 4 teams with over 400k salary, 2 of them 8 riders, 1 9, 1 10. 5 teams under salary, 5 pay up to 30k over, rest above
Newcomers simply are too expensive, that's of course the trap you laid for them.
Best plan back to 15 millions, 9 riders. Will still have some over salary of course, but less. Like this you just set quite a lot of them up for a reset. Money loss, frustration, reset of leave the game.
Since you seem to like the 20 millions, at least put in a rider minimum. They have to buy a minimum of 10 riders. Which is still 9 riders with a salary of 375k plus a very expensive 5 million man, making it 11 wouldn't be wrong either. That combined with no cheapened riders minimizes can make them concentrate on the races at first, not money like it is now.

[Robyklebt]

I already have another idea, which I won't put up, somebody else can if they feel it's a good idea

A short, concise, tutorial JUST ABOUT THE RACES (I'm not writing it).
The race is the heart of the game, that's what newcomers need to have explained, or understand first. Not a 700 page tutorial about everything (which is useful too, but not the first thing.) A short concise race tutorial. The one under manual is probably kind of ok, even if possibly still too long. Plus some pictures in would be nice. But having just that part of the manual appear automatically when new teams inscribe for a race could help. Or a direct link from the race screen to just that part of the manual, who then opens in a separate tab.

[Alkworld]

-Races with division restrictions. IMO no need to then use it every day, but offer the newcomers their own editions, D6 only every 2 or so days. Maybe some days D5-6 too? They can profit from in race help too. IMO most important.

I prepared something for that, options are now:
1 to 8 (8 is theoretical, practically it's 6)
1 to 5
6 to 8
I don't see the point currently for 5 to 8, as the teams in Div 5 are practically almost as experienced as the ones in 1 to 4. So for learning, the new teams can join the race for 1 to 8.

If all goes well, we can have extra races already tomorrow. I'll prepare a script to create some. I'm open for suggestions on how many extra races we should offer tomorrow. And I'd suggest to then limit the main classic editions to 1 to 5 (at the moment that can also be done only in the database directly).

[Hansa]

I don't see the point currently for 5 to 8, as the teams in Div 5 are practically almost as experienced as the ones in 1 to 4. So for learning, the new teams can join the race for 1 to 8.

that will change from May, with new teams now some will probably promote to D5

[Falcor CC]

I don't see the point currently for 5 to 8, as the teams in Div 5 are practically almost as experienced as the ones in 1 to 4. So for learning, the new teams can join the race for 1 to 8.

that will change from May, with new teams now some will probably promote to D5

Unlikely to happen this month I think, and those that promote next month probably have 40 races and some experience under their belt already to move to the big boys

[Hansa]

true forgot the 1500 points needed^^

[Alkworld]

Some first changes to React and SQL script are ready, so how about 3 additional times for Div 6+ races tomorrow (or even one today)? From my perspective this should be done only from the afternoon when I'm home to deal with potential bugs.

Edit: you can see the changes of 3.11.0 already in the test version on https://cycling4freaks.de/c4f-3.0-test/c4f-react/

[Alkworld]

Another simple idea I could implement: introduce a new (temporary) role for users (e.g. Mentor) who can also write into the race chat to support all the newbies. At the moment that's limited to admins and FPC. Anybody interested in helping could have that role, or I just assign it to everybody who's been here for long (so almost everybody )

[Robyklebt]

I see that a bit less enthusiastically....

No need to be overbearing, let them ride and have fun, let them figure out what's good, what's bad in their own races, without us mentoring them all in our own image, without 17 experienced manager advising them nonstop in the chat. Learning by doing.
If they join the 1-8 race, yes, those that are in the race can answer question. 6, then the admins and FPC guys can. Are more really necessary? And even for admins and FPC I would say make some rules, early post in the race chat: I'll answer question, then only post if somebody actually wants to know something. And to point out team attacks maybe.

Give them the tools to figure out what to do in races (see my second post, think that is a good idea) and then let them play, we all kind of sort of figured out some of the things too by now, no reason to think that they won't and need us babysitting them 24/7.

[Alkworld]

No need to be overbearing, let them ride and have fun, let them figure out what's good, what's bad in their own races, without us mentoring them all in our own image, without 17 experienced manager advising them nonstop in the chat. Learning by doing.

I think it will mainly be needed in races without any experienced and talky teams. Then there can be at least somebody to answer basic questions.

[Alkworld]

-20 millions without a minimum of riders that have to be bought was a mistake. 15 millions was of course perfectly fine, 9 riders that need to be bought, there was a reason Buh made it like that. New team are in covered salary (9 riders races, nowadays with 8 a bit different) Today 14h race:
Group 1, newcomer with 414k salary, 8 riders in team.
Group 2, 19 teams: 446 and 412, 8 riders in team 6 under 335k, 6 up to 365k
Group 3 17 teams: 4 teams with over 400k salary, 2 of them 8 riders, 1 9, 1 10. 5 teams under salary, 5 pay up to 30k over, rest above
Newcomers simply are too expensive, that's of course the trap you laid for them.
Best plan back to 15 millions, 9 riders. Will still have some over salary of course, but less. Like this you just set quite a lot of them up for a reset. Money loss, frustration, reset of leave the game.

I would agree here, especially now that we can also do Div6 races again, where the newcomers don't have to face all those strong and experienced teams. However, now Falcor already invited his whole family and it's a bit hard to revert that, now that 500 teams have already been created and some started playing.

Since you seem to like the 20 millions, at least put in a rider minimum. They have to buy a minimum of 10 riders. Which is still 9 riders with a salary of 375k plus a very expensive 5 million man, making it 11 wouldn't be wrong either. That combined with no cheapened riders minimizes can make them concentrate on the races at first, not money like it is now.

tricky to implement - first of all because riders are bought sequentially and one natural way to start building the team is by buying the captain. Second, same argument as above are the 500 teams already created.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Auto-Team gives you 9 riders plus money for 1-3 Riders, so every team who choses that, is OK financially.

If a newbie does not want an auto team and prefers to waste their money, it's their freedom. Same freedom as all other teams have by the way.

Having a minimum number or riders per team (for all teams, not only newbies!) would be fair though.

[Robyklebt]

I like how things are now rapidly possible that I demanded more than a year

That's what Flocke said in the calendar part.

I say, I like how you kind of agree now that it's too late

After all I said something similar to the above when it was introduced...

But ok, I see how changing it now is problematic, weird, early ones get 20 millions. later ones less and so on.

But the point once again:
The core of the game is the races. You start, that's what you want to and should focus on. Not the management part. Like we had it when we started, early 06 guys never had to care about money, actually at one point we discovered we were all just getting richer and richer and then the tax system was introduced, which held up surprisingly well... But we and later guys too never had to worry about money much at first. You couldn't lose any, max salary was 375'000, 9 riders races. Trading was easier since the tax was minimal, now at 20 millions it's already higher.
So one goal for me here would be to somehow make sure that every team has the ability to start with 335'000 salary for an 8 riders race. Take the money pressure away for complete newcomers. Yes, they have the ability, "freedom" to buy those riders... Forget "freedom" talk, they are basically newborns here. That means give them restrictions to protect them, they know nothing at first, first thing you do is not read a whole bunch of manuals, you buy riders, you ride races , you are excited by training.. you don't want to have to fight bankrupcy from the get go. So don't know exactly how, since Alk is right when he says wrong moment... but come up with something that allows teams to start races at 335k salary with the riders they have, not the ones they could have used their freedom to buy. If they choose autoteam, ok, nothing additonal, if they choose to buy their riders themselves, only give them 13.4 millions buy 8 riders, then release the 6.6 once they have them (but not ideal, first they buy the leader, then 7 useless ones then) Ok, don't have the right solution, but IMO would be important to allow them to ride without money pressure. Find a way!

[flockmastoR]

I like how things are now rapidly possible that I demanded more than a year

That's what Flocke said in the calendar part.

I say, I like how you kind of agree now that it's too late

After all I said something similar to the above when it was introduced...

But ok, I see how changing it now is problematic, weird, early ones get 20 millions. later ones less and so on.

But the point once again:
The core of the game is the races. You start, that's what you want to and should focus on. Not the management part. Like we had it when we started, early 06 guys never had to care about money, actually at one point we discovered we were all just getting richer and richer and then the tax system was introduced, which held up surprisingly well... But we and later guys too never had to worry about money much at first. You couldn't lose any, max salary was 375'000, 9 riders races. Trading was easier since the tax was minimal, now at 20 millions it's already higher.
So one goal for me here would be to somehow make sure that every team has the ability to start with 335'000 salary for an 8 riders race. Take the money pressure away for complete newcomers. Yes, they have the ability, "freedom" to buy those riders... Forget "freedom" talk, they are basically newborns here. That means give them restrictions to protect them, they know nothing at first, first thing you do is not read a whole bunch of manuals, you buy riders, you ride races , you are excited by training.. you don't want to have to fight bankrupcy from the get go. So don't know exactly how, since Alk is right when he says wrong moment... but come up with something that allows teams to start races at 335k salary with the riders they have, not the ones they could have used their freedom to buy. If they choose autoteam, ok, nothing additonal, if they choose to buy their riders themselves, only give them 13.4 millions buy 8 riders, then release the 6.6 once they have them (but not ideal, first they buy the leader, then 7 useless ones then) Ok, don't have the right solution, but IMO would be important to allow them to ride without money pressure. Find a way!

I see the problem in implementing it, why not force newborn teams to use one type of auto-team that has those issues already solved? If they are reluctant and want to do it their own way, okay ride some races, sell your riders, do a reset, go for it. I think this is the best way to implement what you have in mind (newborn teams need to be forced to get a team that not ends in bankrupcy automatically). That doesn't mean that they won't when they do bad decisions after, but I support the point for not letting them do it from the beginning.