Nationenkomitee / Nations Committee

[Bright]

Hi all,

I gave my Mexican rider the name Maljero Flores. It was denounced due to the First name? Flores being one of the top 10 surnames in Mexico. Is there no leeway in first names either? Tbh I find that a bit strange, I tried a Mexican sounding first name and thought I did pretty well, isn't this a bit too strict?

Seeing several of the first names being agreed in general, aI must admit i expected this to be okay.

[Servicio Médico]

Hi all,

I gave my Mexican rider the name Maljero Flores. It was denounced due to the First name? Flores being one of the top 10 surnames in Mexico. Is there no leeway in first names either? Tbh I find that a bit strange, I tried a Mexican sounding first name and thought I did pretty well, isn't this a bit too strict?

Seeing several of the first names being agreed in general, aI must admit i expected this to be okay.

Yeah its about his first name. I think in general some leeway is fine but there is also the fact that this is not a fantasy game so sometimes there is a fine line. In this case in my research 1st i found no evidence that it is a real given name. 2nd mal is spanish for bad and i found something in combination with jero that suggested that it could mean something like bad guy or bad boy or something like that.. and that doesnt strike me as a proper given name for someone.
At least thats the reason i rejected it after doing my research.

[team fl]

I guess what you mean is Pajero, which is used as an insult in certain spanish speaking countries. That's why there is no Mitsubishi Pajero in some countries, but a Montero. Anyway, the literal translation is far away from insulting. And so is Maljero. If you ask me, although it might not exist as a given name, it sounds pretty realistic.

[Servicio Médico]

yeah heard of that one too. but thats not what i meant.. i meant what i wrote before ..strangely cant find it now tho .. but even without the specific meaning it still leaves the prefix mal .. i agree on first glance it might sound right .. but with spanish in mind it sounds like the name jero with bad in front ..so like bad jero.. thats kinda like an english name badjay or böswilly in german speaking countries... idk it just doesnt feel right to me .. but thats just me and if everyone else would be fine with it then so be it

[team fl]

The ending is not jero but ero

indicating a profession/occupation (like panadero from pan for baker), a place/container (like salero for salt shaker), or sometimes personality traits/characteristics (like callejero for a street-dwarter/wanderer), or even types of trees/plants. It transforms nouns into roles, locations, or descriptive adjectives, often meaning "one who does/deals with X" or "a place for X

So the prefix would be malj-, not mal. Does not exist, but still sounds realistic (in my view).

The literal translation for pajero is a hay seller, a "vendedor of paja". The insult in south america is from another mesning though: Pampaskatze...

[Servicio Médico]

The ending is not jero but ero

indicating a profession/occupation (like panadero from pan for baker), a place/container (like salero for salt shaker), or sometimes personality traits/characteristics (like callejero for a street-dwarter/wanderer), or even types of trees/plants. It transforms nouns into roles, locations, or descriptive adjectives, often meaning "one who does/deals with X" or "a place for X

So the prefix would be malj-, not mal. Does not exist, but still sounds realistic (in my view).

The literal translation for pajero is a hay seller, a "vendedor of paja". The insult in south america is from another mesning though: Pampaskatze...

no no thats a misunderstanding i wasnt referencing the pajero stuff you mentioned before.. just see now that it could lead to confusion about what i meant..wasnt aware when answering^^
pretty simple ..jero is an actual first name .. so maljero would mean bad jero ... or like for example maldiego would then mean bad diego ..or like the examples in other languages i gave before.. thats why i dont think its a name someone would give their son in a spanish speaking country... who would call their son bad+whatevername
i hope you now understand what i mean.. if you agree with that is ofc another question^^

[Bright]

Ik had no idea tbh was just looking for a nice spanish spunding name. If it's not allowed its too bad, because id prefer my riders coming from countries, but if not I'll live.

Basically I tried to change my last name to a first name and my first name to a last name ^^

[Servicio Médico]

i totally understand you and like i said before at first glance it might look like a normal name for many ..but for me it looked a bit strange from the get go.. but like i said maybe thats just me im not an expert on spanish names.. i always try to find reasons to accept as many names as possible coz i dont want to have any trottels in the game but accepting something that feels wrong doesnt do it for me either... but thats why were more than one in the NC .. so if im the only one seeing it that way i wouldnt be against acccepting it ofc..
in general there are names that look totally fine for people not knowing a language or naming conventions of a language but dont make sense if you look closer.. i have some riders in my team as well that shouldnt have been accepted ...but i only know that now after we had the problem with the autogenerated riders names where the first names didnt fit the last ones.. was never aware of that and thought these names are totally fine.. but they are in fact nonsensical well different case than with your rider ofc
sometimes its really tricky and a question where you draw the line... being too strict and accepting almost everything seems pretty close sometimes

[flockmastoR]

Just explored some teams and found the rider "Udo Jürgens" who was trotteled just like a month ago. While I am more furious that I now cannot use this beautiful name myself, I wonder how anybody would come to the conclusion to trottel Udo?

If you thought this is a rhetorical question. It is not. I really want an explanation. This is clearly against the NC rules (the name is real). Making errors is human, but I just want to make sure you also see an error there.

You ignored me 2 times already on this topic.

[Servicio Médico]

Just explored some teams and found the rider "Udo Jürgens" who was trotteled just like a month ago. While I am more furious that I now cannot use this beautiful name myself, I wonder how anybody would come to the conclusion to trottel Udo?

Any chance I get an answer on this.

im not 100% sure but i think i remember that this guy was just tagged as wrong country .. i think australia was selescted as his nation.. but not 100% like i said ..idk if his still available in the list ..i can take a look
edit: ah just see its too long ago ..or is there a way to access archived ones?

[cataracs]

so if im the only one seeing it that way i wouldnt be against acccepting it ofc..

The NC system makes it so at least two members accept the decision to work, so you're not the only one. If the NC memebers are bad that's something else lol.

[Servicio Médico]

good point

[vicmafraigar]

Hello:
I received a message informing me that my rider Jesper Skommelhansen lost his nationality (DK) because the nations committee thinks the name is not a realistic name.
I am not disagree with the decision, but when I bought the rider on the market, he already had that name, and I didn't think it would be a problem.
However, I don't like the idea of ​​having a stateless rider and/or one with an unrealistic name. What can I do to assign him a name and nationality that meet the requirements?
Waiting for your decision on this matter, best regards.

[Servicio Médico]

hey
well unfortunately there is nothing we can do really in that matter.. (i wish we could so that these nation less riders wouldl disappear )
the decision was made and the you cant rename riders, neither can the NC
the only one that could do something about it is alk

[vicmafraigar]

hey
well unfortunately there is nothing we can do really in that matter.. (i wish we could so that these nation less riders wouldl disappear )
the decision was made and the you cant rename riders, neither can the NC
the only one that could do something about it is alk

Thanks for your reply, and I share your wish that something could be done about these riders.
Unfortunately, I suspect ALK has more important things to do.

[Team chatelaillon]

Good evening
I have a little problem in my team with 2 racers without nationality ?
Alesandro Ginovezi an italian but you say it's a clone , but clone of who ?
Joao Alreida an potuges but you say it's a clon too, but clone of who ?

Can i have a solution to have a nationality for this racer ? can change the name or the nationality ?

Thanks

[Servicio Médico]

Good evening
I have a little problem in my team with 2 racers without nationality ?
Alesandro Ginovezi an italian but you say it's a clone , but clone of who ?
Joao Alreida an potuges but you say it's a clon too, but clone of who ?

Can i have a solution to have a nationality for this racer ? can change the name or the nationality ?

Thanks

Ola
well since the name genovezi doesnt seem to exist to begin with Alesandro Ginovezi looks like a clone of an existing person Alessandro Genovesi
and with Joao Alreida its obviously a clone of João Almeida

The only possibility in general would be to change the nationality of a rider if the name is plausible but doesnt fit the country chosen for him.
But since they are both clones thats not an option and changing the name never is since the NC cant do that.

So i always would recommend to put a bit more thought into naming riders so that this problem wouldnt occur in the first place and we dont have to have these nationless riders in the game

[Elmo-Tours]

Hi Guys,

i received the following message:
"Nations Committee requests clarification

Dear Elmo-Tours, the Nations Committee is currently discussing, if your rider Ed Woila may keep his nationality (BY). If you can provide a good reason why the rider has the correct nationality, please provide some clarification on its correctness (e.g. a Wikipedia link incase of real persons or some short explanation). You can do so in the additional information field on the rider page (Team -> Riders) or, if this is not sufficient, in the forum. Best regards, Nations Committee"

Thanks for your interest in Ed! Let me explain my thougths on choosing this specific name and nation:

Woila is a real Surname (as it's proofed here f.E.: https://www.ancestry.ca/last-name-meani ... 7bjM4yDDc5). I choosed a slavic-speaking country - Belarus - because Woila sounds slavic (like Wila or Wolska f.E.).
Besides that: Ed is a legit first Name.

We from Team Elmo all hope Ed can keep his citizenship, also best regards from his mother Tatjana from Minsk.


Besides that:
In case this name is a political issue (Belarus as an authoritarian state without free elections,etc.), i fully support your reservations and ask you kindly for choosing an other, more democratic nationality for Ed, instead of making him nationsless. Thank you!

Best regards,
Elmo

[Servicio Médico]

Hi Guys,

i received the following message:
"Nations Committee requests clarification

Dear Elmo-Tours, the Nations Committee is currently discussing, if your rider Ed Woila may keep his nationality (BY). If you can provide a good reason why the rider has the correct nationality, please provide some clarification on its correctness (e.g. a Wikipedia link incase of real persons or some short explanation). You can do so in the additional information field on the rider page (Team -> Riders) or, if this is not sufficient, in the forum. Best regards, Nations Committee"

Thanks for your interest in Ed! Let me explain my thougths on choosing this specific name and nation:

Woila is a real Surname (as it's proofed here f.E.: https://www.ancestry.ca/last-name-meani ... 7bjM4yDDc5). I choosed a slavic-speaking country - Belarus - because Woila sounds slavic (like Wila or Wolska f.E.).
Besides that: Ed is a legit first Name.

We from Team Elmo all hope Ed can keep his citizenship, also best regards from his mother Tatjana from Minsk.


Besides that:
In case this name is a political issue (Belarus as an authoritarian state without free elections,etc.), i fully support your reservations and ask you kindly for choosing an other, more democratic nationality for Ed, instead of making him nationsless. Thank you!

Best regards,
Elmo

hey
the good thing here is the name itself is ok so we wont end up with another trottel
the main question is if its a plausible belarusian name? unfortunately i couldnt find any evidence for that and the page you linked doesnt show immigration records of the origin country if you dont pay for it. now you mentioned it sounds slavic ..and while looking at belarusian names it doesnt quite look belarusian to me i could imagine the name being polish for example .. and since these countries are bordering each other and have shifting hostorical borders the name is at least plausible to me
when it comes to the first name in today day and age i think its becoming more universal anyway so even though ed is not the first name that would come to mind if i think of belarus it obviously a real name so no problem there
so i think ed can keep his nationality even though ed woila doesnt sound like the typical belarusian name at first sight

[Elmo-Tours]

Thank you, as Team Elmo we really appreciate that decision and also a weight has been lifted up from Tatjanas heart!
Have a nice Weekend!
Cheers,
Elmo

[Falcor CC]

Ola
well since the name genovezi doesnt seem to exist to begin with Alesandro Ginovezi looks like a clone of an existing person Alessandro Genovesi
and with Joao Alreida its obviously a clone of João Almeida

Hi, question for NC here; does the clone argument only apply to existing riders? F.e. I remember we had a Harry Kane in the game and now Kristaps Porzingis a.k.a. Tingus Pingus is in the spotlights. Also the whole Felsenland team is real, pretty to very well-known people. These are only a few examples... I'm not entirely sure what happens with these riders? Is only their nationality stripped? Is that only the case for clones of cyclists, or does it stretch to other athletes/artists/... as well?

The manual states "(2) It’s not allowed to alter names of real existing celebrities (sports, politics, music, films, etc.) either by adding, deleting or changing letters (e.g. "Wout VanArt" or "Matthieu VanDerPoel")." But it seems like this rule is not enforced much at all, only in specific cases and usually only for cycling clones.

If NC is understaffed, I would be happy to join.

Thanks!

[team fl]

Ola
well since the name genovezi doesnt seem to exist to begin with Alesandro Ginovezi looks like a clone of an existing person Alessandro Genovesi
and with Joao Alreida its obviously a clone of João Almeida

Hi, question for NC here; does the clone argument only apply to existing riders? F.e. I remember we had a Harry Kane in the game and now Kristaps Porzingis a.k.a. Tingus Pingus is in the spotlights. Also the whole Felsenland team is real, pretty to very well-known people. These are only a few examples... I'm not entirely sure what happens with these riders? Is only their nationality stripped? Is that only the case for clones of cyclists, or does it stretch to other athletes/artists/... as well?

The manual states "(2) It’s not allowed to alter names of real existing celebrities (sports, politics, music, films, etc.) either by adding, deleting or changing letters (e.g. "Wout VanArt" or "Matthieu VanDerPoel")." But it seems like this rule is not enforced much at all, only in specific cases and usually only for cycling clones.

If NC is understaffed, I would be happy to join.

Thanks!

A clone is an altered name from a celebrity, not the celebrity name itself. Of course you're allowed to use a celebrity's name for your rider, even a real existing cyclist's name. Just don't butcher or alter it. If the name has been used already? Bad luck. Chose another one.

For example: Jan Ulrich is ok, Jan Ullrich isn't. Even if the name Ullrich would exist as a surname, it is clear that this ride is a clone of Jan Ulrich.

Of course, there are examples, when it's not so clear. Stefan Küng is ok, as it is the real existing rider's name. But is Stephan Küng ok? Stephan is an existing first name in Switzerland. Even worse: Stefan Kung for somebody who doesn't have the "ü" on the keyboard. What about special letters like ø in norwegian names speical letters in other languages (or even another alphabet like cyrillic)? For example: Bjørnar Øverland. Is Bjornar Overland okay? I say no. Reason: It's easy just to declare either the Pro Cycling Stats or the english Wikipedia name as reference for that. So, Stefan Küng and Bjørnar Øverland. The letter doesn't exist on your keyboard? Copy and paste.

Regarding cyclist's names, I would be very strict in a cycling game. Other celebrities? If it's a clear alteration and maybe even unrealistic (Keanu Reeeves f.e.) -> trottel. But if the names could otherwise exist, who gives a shit.

[Falcor CC]

A clone is an altered name from a celebrity, not the celebrity name itself. Of course you're allowed to use a celebrity's name for your rider, even a real existing cyclist's name. Just don't butcher or alter it. If the name has been used already? Bad luck. Chose another one.

Copy! Missed/misinterpreted the 'altered' part.

For example: Jan Ulrich is ok, Jan Ullrich isn't. Even if the name Ullrich would exist as a surname, it is clear that this ride is a clone of Jan Ulrich.

Here I don't really follow the reasoning. If we assume Ullrich is a valid German name, why shouldn't Jan Ullrich be allowed when Jan Ulrich is? Every rider in this game if fictional, so I would say Ullrich is just as much of a clone as Ulrich. Again, different if Ullrich isn't an actual surname, but assuming it is, why shouldn't it be allowed? Another exception would be if the name mocks the real name of course.

Of course, there are examples, when it's not so clear. Stefan Küng is ok, as it is the real existing rider's name. But is Stephan Küng ok? Stephan is an existing first name in Switzerland. Even worse: Stefan Kung for somebody who doesn't have the "ü" on the keyboard. What about special letters like ø in norwegian names speical letters in other languages (or even another alphabet like cyrillic)? For example: Bjørnar Øverland. Is Bjornar Overland okay? I say no. Reason: It's easy just to declare either the Pro Cycling Stats or the english Wikipedia name as reference for that. So, Stefan Küng and Bjørnar Øverland. The letter doesn't exist on your keyboard? Copy and paste.

Completely agree.

Regarding cyclist's names, I would be very strict in a cycling game. Other celebrities? If it's a clear alteration and maybe even unrealistic (Keanu Reeeves f.e.) -> trottel. But if the names could otherwise exist, who gives a shit.

Agreed to some extent. Riding against Harry Kane or Kurt Cobain pisses me off and I've heard others feel the same. But if we do trottel those, it becomes a question of how far it goes. For example, I thought Clive Bixby was a really clever, creative name for a rider even if I knew that character, but accepted it because it is so niche. On my own team, I don't think 5% of people know who Jack Napier is, but of course it could get trotteled too, since it is copied from an existing fictional character. So I guess then it becomes a subjective matter of how niche the name has to be.

[team fl]

For example: Jan Ulrich is ok, Jan Ullrich isn't. Even if the name Ullrich would exist as a surname, it is clear that this ride is a clone of Jan Ulrich.

Here I don't really follow the reasoning. If we assume Ullrich is a valid German name, why shouldn't Jan Ullrich be allowed when Jan Ulrich is? Every rider in this game if fictional, so I would say Ullrich is just as much of a clone as Ulrich. Again, different if Ullrich isn't an actual surname, but assuming it is, why shouldn't it be allowed? Another exception would be if the name mocks the real name of course.

I wrote it later: I would be super strict just for cyclists (clone of cyclists). The game is called Cycling4Freaks after all. But of course you can discuss "altered" names names that sound realistic or even exist. It's just how I would like to do it, but I am not part of the NC and the rules would allow that I think.

And again, the term "clone" in the context of the NC is clearly a rider with an altered name from a cyclist, celebrity, etc. and not the real name. So far, real names have been allowed by the owners of the game (initally by Buhmann/Radler). The main reason for the clone rule was that you don't have x riders in the game called Jan Ulrich, Jann Ulrich, Jan Ullrich, Jan Ülrich, etc. Or with a current rider: Tadej Pogačar, Tadej Pogacar, Tadei Pogačar, Tad Pogačar, etc.

Riding against Harry Kane or Kurt Cobain pisses me off and I've heard others feel the same. But if we do trottel those, it becomes a question of how far it goes. For example, I thought Clive Bixby was a really clever, creative name for a rider even if I knew that character, but accepted it because it is so niche. On my own team, I don't think 5% of people know who Jack Napier is, but of course it could get trotteled too, since it is copied from an existing fictional character. So I guess then it becomes a subjective matter of how niche the name has to be.

This can be discussed I guess. But Changing that would result in a change of the NC rules. Never heard of these complaints though. And the current rules allow the Harry Kanes and Kurt Cobains. As long as they're not clones .

[Robyklebt]

For example: Jan Ulrich is ok, Jan Ullrich isn't. Even if the name Ullrich would exist as a surname, it is clear that this ride is a clone of Jan Ulrich.

Other way around.
The former cyclist's name is: Jan Ullrich! So what FL (FLL) was trying to say is the opposite of what he said. Jan Ullrich ok. Jan Ulrich is a clone.

All confusion created by FL's post was of course done on purpose, the guy has a plan.