October 2025

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flockmastoR
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Re: October 2025

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Oct 07, 2025 9:16 am

ECS Cycling wrote:
Tue Oct 07, 2025 2:09 am
Should be updated now
Sorry but it is still not accurate. I guess you have used the gpx file from LFR or something and corrected it from there, but you lost somehow 10m Height due to that, the Castelletto d'Erro top has 552 m height in the first and 542 m height in the second lap. According to the map file, the last 3 km are also ridden in the first lap, but there it is still 0-0-0 (as your finish was before). When you correct it to -1 0 2 in the first lap as well, you will end up on the correct height.
BUT the gpx file just gives you a height of 504 max there, also there are some height deviations between c4f and gpx height earlier.

I know these semi-circuit races are not too easy to implement (also because of some missing features in the editor)
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Bright
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Re: October 2025

Post by Bright » Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:21 pm

Hi Guys,

Who is designing the Gru Tour of Guangxi 2025? If you haven't found anyone I can try designing it?

Cheers,

Bright

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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:26 pm

Bright wrote:
Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:21 pm
Hi Guys,

Who is designing the Gru Tour of Guangxi 2025? If you haven't found anyone I can try designing it?

Cheers,

Bright
That would be great. If you have the profiles. I think others struggled to find them...

And as a note, they sometimes copy stages from previous years. That is worth checking, as it could be a shortcut.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Radunion » Tue Oct 07, 2025 8:11 pm

Has anybody found good information on the Tour de Vendée? I could try to design it using the information I found on their webpage (https://www.tourdevendee.fr/la-course/i ... -horaires/) tomorrow, but it would be far from perfect.

If you find something on Guangxi, it would be perfect, Bright. The limited information I found suggests that the stage will be very similar to last year, but the stage length differs for some stages.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Hansa » Tue Oct 07, 2025 8:47 pm

Radunion wrote:
Tue Oct 07, 2025 8:11 pm

If you find something on Guangxi, it would be perfect, Bright. The limited information I found suggests that the stage will be very similar to last year, but the stage length differs for some stages.
https://sanluca.cc/races/g5W6NYBLj

does this look correct?
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est. 03.08.2009

Bright
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Re: October 2025

Post by Bright » Tue Oct 07, 2025 9:23 pm

I found some info, but not km by km. Thought I could do it manually checking out the mountains km by km if they're findable. Won't be 100% accurate maybe as its hard to find the exact roads

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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Oct 07, 2025 9:46 pm

Since we're talking about details for Piemonte, maybe we can talk about details about Lombardia too?

Ganda to me seems a bit strange (didn't check earlier stuff)
The 9 in the middle doesn't seem to be there according to the Lombardia page: https://www.ilombardia.it/percorso/

Dettaglio salite, annoyingly it resets to the profile every few minutes...or minute?

Taking their percentages, compared to ours, bolded where it doesn't fit.
7.4--7
6.2--6
6.3--6
6.2--9
5.7--7
6.6--5
7.6--9
9.9--10
10-7
with 200 meters at 7.6 remaining, we get a 2% on top, which to me seems wrong, just make it a straight 9 km, if you need those 15.2 meters add them at the bottom.
To me 7 6 6 6 6 7 8 10 10 looks good, we then miss 14.2 meters...

Bergamo Alta, top 371 according to the site, we have it at 376, maybe 366 is better because right now we finish at 266 while in reality should be 248 again according to their site. Instead of 1-2 before the climb maybe 1-1? Then we finish at 256 which seems ok.
Then as I said before, we could talk about the downhill. right now -5 -3 -3. Goes down 45 39 and 28 meters in the last 3 km. So should be -4 or -5 for the first km (the downhill being a bit longer than 3 km for me here -5 seems clear. then -4, and then -3. Then we'd end up at 246. perfect. But, as I wrote before, IMO we could do -2 for the last km as well, since the sprint finish is basically flat, and since that plays a big role at c4f, less so in reality (even less so when Pogacar is there) maybe -2 is better? Up for discussion, just in case we don't only care about Piemonte, but also about Lombardia :lol:
-5-4 to me seems clear though. Last km -3 or -2 both sort of ok.

Btw, all calculations without guarantees...

And we could talk about Paris-Tours too. The last km is corrected to 0, good. Now the question is: Should that short 400 meter climb 187 really be a 6? It's 400 meters long at roughly 10%. 40 meters gained, looking at the map and the "altitude lines" (contour lines it seems in proper english) overall a bit more, maybe close to 50, but under 50. Doesn't that change the whole race to something that it isn't in reality? Don't think the finish has fundamentally changed since the introduction of gravel in 2018 And it's not the "hilly classic" riders winning, but see here: https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/pa ... s/palmares. IMO overdesigning is ok depending on the general character of a race. In RVV it's not the Paterberg that makes the selection, it's the Paterberg after the Oude Kwaremont and shitloads of other hills. Like the Muur in Gerardsbeergen in RVV vs nowadays in Omloop. RVV=used to be a big selection. Omloop this year? 49 riders with the same time. Which is huge, often smaller, sometimes somebody gets away, Tratnik - Politt in 24, but in 20 again it was a big group. Different from RVV because... less fatigue, less difficulties before. not proposing to change something there at c4f, but saying why I think overdesigning this 400 meters 10% hill to 6% is not ideal. It changes the character of the c4f race to something that it isn't in reality. It basically elimnates sprinters, and while there was only one MS since the gravel is in, (1 Démare win in escape) they weren't hopelessly beaten. Sometimes big mess, everybody comes in alone, sometimes a few off, sprinters not too far behind. But not generally riders with good hill skills between them, always flat stars there too. If it had this hill 10 times, yes, overdesing, if it had another 15 hard hills before, ok, but like this to me a 5 seems better.

Also the last hill, according to the official site at 202.9 km, finish at 211.6. For us it's 211 km (which is ok, could be 212, can be 211 but that climb at 205. 8.7 km to go in reality 6 for us. Only a 5, so, I guess it won't make a huge difference, but still...
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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:37 am

Lots of good reviewing going on. I usually find the time to skim over the reviews, but I rarely have time to review the reviews. So the risk is that the good reviewing does not translate into profile changes or worst case gets lost entirely.

So here is a step-by-step description how to amend archived profiles.

> Editor
> Profile Editor
> Search Profile
> ProfileCode: e.g. 'lombardia'
> select the profile, e.g. 'lombardia2021' by clicking on edit
> CloneProfile
> Provide a new profileCode, e.g. 'lombardia25'
> Save
>>> Now you can make all sorts of changes to that profile.

Hope it helps.

I will try to include it in the for 3-years unused "Instructions"-Tab. And it's not even completely unrealistic because yesterday after more than 9 months I finally had a coding breakthrough where I managed to re-implement one of the features from versions 1.30.3-11 which got deleted in version 3.1.0... stay tuned.
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Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed Oct 08, 2025 7:51 pm

Seeing Radunion started designing Vendée. Let me know if you plan to finish today/early tomorrow ? Because I think I need to upload tomorrow morning for inscriptions... If you don't have the time, no worries, then I use an old version.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Radunion » Wed Oct 08, 2025 8:51 pm

Hope to finish Vendee today. I will not be perfect, as I am not willing to do the circuits in the end, as each one is different, and it is flat anyway.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Radunion » Wed Oct 08, 2025 9:16 pm

Not much to do as it is flat apart from the one hill in the beginning that could be 5 or 6 (went for 6). Kept the intermediate sprints even if it means a lot of money in-game. As mentioned, the final is a multiple different flat circuits. So I did not make the effort to reuse identical parts.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Radunion » Wed Oct 08, 2025 11:28 pm

There are Guamgxi stages now on la flamme rouge. It should be nearly the same as last year, but I did not check any details. Stage lengths are a bit different for some stages.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:19 pm

Just to make it clear, I'm not doing anything in the editor. Different reasons, one of them that I don't want to change something (even if it is pretty minor) that has been up for so long now "unilaterally", without other comments. Even if that was solved, another reason of course that I don't want to do work and then possibly the other version is still regarded as better and put on. I put it up for discussion, no discussion, if somebody else thinks my proposal here is an improvement and feels an urge to go play around in the editor, go for it. I won't. In the end up to the "real calendar planner" anyway, for me no reason to wait longer to upload stuff. The bigger issue Paris-Tours of course we have an active designer, who himself is more than happy to criticize/propose improvements on other designs, but seems to think he's above taking criticism of his designs seriously... not doing an alternative version there either of course.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:34 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:19 pm
Even if that was solved, another reason of course that I don't want to do work and then possibly the other version is still regarded as better and put on.
Please tell me a case in which this happened.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 3:16 pm

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:34 pm
Please tell me a case in which this happened.
It happens every time you have 2 files, you choose one, discard the other. Pretty basic stuff. So it has happened every time you had 2 or more proposals/files for a race. Which I suspect has been 0 so far. Fortunately, and I plan to leave it at that. Or maybe I'll just design an alternative Tour de France next year :lol: But as soon as you have 2, you automatically have to discard one... or do you plan to upload different versions for different times? I advise against it. And at some point, probably not here in this case, you would discard my version, which is ok, doesn't have to be the way I say it should. But I prefer to spare myself the potentially unnecessary work with the rather unenjoyable editor.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Oct 09, 2025 4:22 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 3:16 pm
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 2:34 pm
Please tell me a case in which this happened.
It happens every time you have 2 files, you choose one, discard the other. Pretty basic stuff. So it has happened every time you had 2 or more proposals/files for a race. Which I suspect has been 0 so far. Fortunately, and I plan to leave it at that. Or maybe I'll just design an alternative Tour de France next year :lol: But as soon as you have 2, you automatically have to discard one... or do you plan to upload different versions for different times? I advise against it. And at some point, probably not here in this case, you would discard my version, which is ok, doesn't have to be the way I say it should. But I prefer to spare myself the potentially unnecessary work with the rather unenjoyable editor.
Impressive long answer for "It has never happened".
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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 5:16 pm

Including explanation that is is bound to happen as soon as you have 2 versions of 1 race. Maybe think of another system in cases like this?
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:07 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 5:16 pm
Including explanation that is is bound to happen as soon as you have 2 versions of 1 race. Maybe think of another system in cases like this?
Why would I need to think of a system for cases that have never happened once before?

If you don't want to design a "2nd version" (e.g. lombardia25) of an old profile (e.g. lombardia2021) from an inactive team (e.g. Gala) even though according to your own review it could be improved, because of the "risk" that the "2nd version" could be rejected, then that's fine. Then just don't do it. But don't imply to other designers that such "2nd versions" would regularly get rejected (which you had to admit, never even happened once).
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Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:21 pm

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:07 pm
Then just don't do it
That's what I'm doing. And informed you of that, so that you don't feel the need to wait for a possible other version by me.
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:07 pm
But don't imply to other designers that such "2nd versions" would regularly get rejected
I'm not implying, but outright stating: If there are 2 versions of a race one will be rejected. And that could be the new version. And it doesn't really matter if the designer of the old version is active or not, it's the quality that counts.
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:07 pm
(which you had to admit, never even happened once).
I didn't have to admit anything, I never claimed it did happen. I said it would happen if you ever had 2 versions of the same race/stage. Something so obvious you don't even have to admit it(but seem unable to grasp anyway somehow or maybe just don't want to admit it.)
And of course it would have happened if I was stupid enough to follow your advice during the Giro. If I had re-designed the strade bianche stage you would have had to discard one of the 2 versions. 2 fully designed versions in that case. Probably mine, since the community seemed to tend more towards the original version.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
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Re: October 2025

Post by cataracs » Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:29 pm

Why is the Japan Cup only a cat2, but Tour de Vendée cat3? Should be at least cat3 in my opinion, or 4.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 8:00 pm

Changed to the computer now, writing on mobile too much work
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 6:07 pm
Why would I need to think of a system for cases that have never happened once before?
Because it is 100% guaranteed it will happen as soon as somebody designs a second version. One of the designs will not be used. And because this system now has at least one designer boycotting that system, even when he believes that his design is better (should be the case in all cases though) and that his correction has a good chance of being used (in the Lombardia case)

I even offer you an idea for a better system:
What happens if I make a second version? You review both versions, including reasoning brought forward in posts or the calendar chat. Decide on one, in consultation with the rest of the community, if the community is silent alone. After all you are the boss, you decide in the end.
So you will have to review the different versions at some point. Agree?

So my brilliant, absolutely revolutionary idea, that nobody else could have come up ,even studying the issue for decades (or maybe everybody that wasn't focused "feeling attacked" and defending his own position at all costs, but spent an ernomous 17"-46" thinking about what problems your "design-your-own-version-system" could have)

Change the order. Review first, see what the community says if you want. And then tell the obnoxious reviewer what you think. If you think the first design is better, ok, say that. If you think the corrections make sense and are better, then write something like "New is better, please make the changes as fast as possible, I'll then put that version online". You will have to do the review at some point anyway, why not make it BEFORE you ask somebody to make a second version... or if you have time to the new version yourself. And if not make the review before asking to design, since the amount of work for you simply doesn't change, the amount of work for the other guy potentially does. Now in this case it's rather minor changes, Ganda seems uncontroversial, second last km at -4 instead of -3 too, the last km is the only :?: -3 technically correct, altitude loss is indeed close to 30 meters. But the last 500 meters, important for our sprint are clearly much much flatter, possibly still -1% in reality, or maybe not, don't know. So having it at -2% might make sense for us. . But overall minor changes, so doesn't matter that much, just put it on.

As for cases like Strade Bianche Giro stage, or Paris-Tours, there the demand to design a second version is even more ridiculous, review (again, you will have to do it at some point, so why not first), decide, have the original designer do it in case you end up disagreeing with his original design. And if he refuses for some mysterious reason (I might, especially for mintacts, if I ever get back to designing) do it yourself.

Brilliant proposal for a new system, that doesn't require you to do more work either, and has the advantage of potentially more eagerness to design on the part of some.

Anyway, forget Lombardia, focus on Paris-Tours! Change of %, ok ok, designers decision, I think second 6% is a unnecessary change that changes the balance too much potentially (the first one is of course not uncontroversial either, but somehow helps bringing a certain selection to the race) but ok, designers decision, can try it like that. The last hill, +5 off by 2 or 3 km if I calculated correctly though is wrong and while I don't expect it to be decisive either, it could be in some situations, plus it's somehow such an unnecessary mistake that it should be corrected. Or at least reviewed to see if maybe I got it wrong... And that's something you can ask the designer to do.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Oct 09, 2025 8:03 pm

cataracs wrote:
Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:29 pm
Why is the Japan Cup only a cat2, but Tour de Vendée cat3? Should be at least cat3 in my opinion, or 4.
Too late, plus it's a shit race anyway, cat 2 fits perfectly. Unimpressive start list, the few good names are there unmotivated and as much for the Saitama Criterium giving them shitloads of money and weird side-performances as for the actual race. I fully support Gipfel and cat 2 on this one. (Unless you're talking about the other Japan Cup, horse race! Cat 7!)
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:00 pm

Anyway Gipfel, what do you think of my idea for the future. Reverse the order. Review/decision-then possible design. Instead of: additional design-review/decision. 0 additional work for you after all.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri Oct 10, 2025 7:01 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:00 pm
Anyway Gipfel, what do you think of my idea for the future. Reverse the order. Review/decision-then possible design. Instead of: additional design-review/decision. 0 additional work for you after all.
I think we are going in circles. Or to put it as neutral as possible: My impression is we talk past each other, if that's the best description for "Wir sprechen aneinander vorbei". So probably time to move on.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

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Re: October 2025

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Oct 10, 2025 8:00 pm

That's because you're unable to answer even a basic question such as the last one. Just say "yes, good idea" or "no, bad idea". Evading evading instead of straight answers. It's toxic.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!
Got a carrot from FL. But they threaten to take it away now.

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