RSF Classics for the offseason calender

[Robyklebt]

Donkey tries to join not only the problem making, but the solution as well:

RSF Offseason Tour
16.10.2024 - 05.11.2024: MED - Mediterranean (South Europe, North Afrika, Arabic Region, prefer non European races)
06.11.2024 - 26.11.2024: AFR - Africa (Sub-Saharan Africa)
27.11.2024 - 17.12.2024: OCE - Oceania (Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, ...)
18.12.2024 - 07.01.2025: ASIA (India, South-East Asia, Indonasia)
08.01.2025 - 28.01.2025: SAM - South America
29.01.2025 - 18.02.2025: CAM - Central America, Mexico & Caribbean

Your biggest problem really is here. By having 20-21 days each SAM and CAM get so late that you don't want to have offseason classics there anymore, understandable, since real races start again. But making all these excursions a bit shorter, might make sense. And would be fairer to Asia as well, since in its 21 days a bunch is stolen by the christmas specials. 6 days to be exact. Or is it because you don't have enough Asian races? If that's the case I could be convinced to design some... don't know, in India maybe? Shorten all the other ones by 6 days too, exception the first one since that already started.

06-20 AFR
21-05.12 OCE
06-21 ASIA
Make 22-1. mixed, since it has all those Christmas-New Year specials
2-16 SAM
17-2 CAM
Then in February again open, mix southern Europe, rest of the ridable world.

Tarse-T-T or Ehime or something else?
The turkish one would almost fit in the MED spot, where it should be anyway, but 7.11 close enough. And I guess rideable, don't think it snows in early November? Ehime would take the first ASIA spot, November average high 18.1, minimum 9.6, in December 12.6 and 4.8, so in ealy december might be something like 14 and 6/7 or so? already better. than the 18.12 spot

With the shortened thing above then:

Africa with 3 classics for 4 spots, You have one open. Taken by T-T-T potentially. (7.11.)
OCE 3 for 4 spots, you have one open.
ASIA 8. Ehime 15. Colombo 18. Aizawl. If no Ehime, you have one open.
SAM you have 1 for 4. BUT it might become 2, Itaburito would lose my minus vote, probably that of others too, if Poke does indeed change it a bit, and puts the goal a bit further from the last monster pavé climb.

And then you have the CAM races to distribute in the open spots. Which you still could move around a bit if you want of course, if Itaburito comes back in, you'd need one more spot anyway, then just put a spot on the Sunday after the Down Under Classic (which of course is just a criterium), and then you can have one CAM race there. 15-19 the 2 last off season classics then, no problem, before Down Under.

Edit: Depending on Itaburito and if you have enough pavé races for Nov, might make sense to assign Presa Allende one of the open Nov spots, since Itaburito would be in January. IF you have pavé stuff for Nov, no problem to have both PA and Itaburito in January, but if you don't, Nov for Presa A. would be sensible, since you should be able to find pavé races for January, SAM and CAM!

[flockmastoR]

Edit: Depending on Itaburito and if you have enough pavé races for Nov, might make sense to assign Presa Allende one of the open Nov spots, since Itaburito would be in January. IF you have pavé stuff for Nov, no problem to have both PA and Itaburito in January, but if you don't, Nov for Presa A. would be sensible, since you should be able to find pavé races for January, SAM and CAM!

Well November and pave looks bad from what my initial plan of region was. No races in MED, AFR, OCE. Thanks to Tukh some pave races in CAM and SAM region available. My plan to handle it, was to not follow the region plan for that special interest races. So put in one of the SAM races in November. As for Itaburito, Poke's answer to the change proposal was rather negative, so I expect it to be out for the moment.

[Pokemon Club]

For Itaburito AAD if you can change it, don't hesitate because I can't for the moment

[flockmastoR]

For Itaburito AAD if you can change it, don't hesitate because I can't for the moment

Will take a look at it in the evening

[Robyklebt]

Well, but we demand that the designer, Poke, at least give orders to the worker, it is a Poke race after all...

[flockmastoR]

Well, but we demand that the designer, Poke, at least give orders to the worker, it is a Poke race after all...

Wasn't he ordering it? Confused

[Robyklebt]

I meant the how to changem what to change exactly...

[Pokemon Club]

where it was an order ? Anyway can you add the part of circuit from km 159 to km 170 at the end ?

[flockmastoR]

where it was an order ? Anyway can you add the part of circuit from km 159 to km 170 at the end ?

Like that?

[Pokemon Club]

where it was an order ? Anyway can you add the part of circuit from km 159 to km 170 at the end ?

Like that?

Yes thanks
I tried to do it I could find the archive, copy it to do a new version but couldn't change the profile, there is no process for that?

[flockmastoR]

where it was an order ? Anyway can you add the part of circuit from km 159 to km 170 at the end ?

Like that?

Yes thanks
I tried to do it I could find the archive, copy it to do a new version but couldn't change the profile, there is no process for that?

Hm not entirely sure. But maybe I need to change "designer" for it.

[Robyklebt]

With that Itabirito-Ouro Prieto loses my minus vote.
And I dare to make myself spokesperson for the other anti-guys too, with the change, the criticized part is gone, so they all are for it now... or something like that. I think with the change it should be retained in the offseason calendar anyway.

Can we get a general update then?

(As for the designer, AAD probably right, either you or Gipfel "moved it over" from the old editor last year, with that you probably became the designer, so access for Poke was not there anymore I guess. Something that might be worth of a rethink, the whole process of changing a race from one year to the other, who has access and how it's done)

[flockmastoR]

Ok Update:

Executive Summary:
Itaburito stays a offseason classic with changed lineup
Tarse - Tepekoy - Tarse, therefore not taken up as a new classic (not on the proposed spot, nor earlier)
Ehime Cycling Cup not taken up as a new classic (not on the proposed spot, nor earlier)

Regional time spots stay as they are and I am thinking about a better way how to set them for next year

RSF Offseason Tour
16.10.2024 - 05.11.2024: MED - Mediterranean (South Europe, North Afrika, Arabic Region, prefer non European races)
06.11.2024 - 26.11.2024: AFR - Africa (Sub-Saharan Africa)
27.11.2024 - 17.12.2024: OCE - Oceania (Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, ...)
18.12.2024 - 07.01.2025: ASIA (India, South-East Asia, Indonasia)
08.01.2025 - 28.01.2025: SAM - South America
29.01.2025 - 18.02.2025: CAM - Central America, Mexico & Caribbean

Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup moves from 14.11.2024 -> 18.12.2024
Kisoro-Kabale moves from 19.11.2024 -> 14.11.2024
Trofeo de Presa Allende moves from 15.01.2025 -> 19.11.2024
Itaburito will be scheduled at 15.01.2025

Like this, we have at least one pave race in each offseason month, the reshuffeling was meant to give them good spots (not next to 2 different stage races) and if possible scheduled them in the right region (Itaburity in SAM, Allende not possible as no spots in Feb)

[flockmastoR]

Offseason Classics 2024/25 - Proposal - Draft v2

October 2024
27.10. GP Brescia (3)
31.10. GP Coimbra (3)

November 2024
01.11. Gran Prix de Agadir (2)
04.11. Jable - Al Farandis (2)
07.11. San Francisco classic (3)
14.11. Kisoro-Kabale (3)
16.11. Seychelles Vacation Race (NEW)
19.11. Trofeo de Presa Allende (NEW)
22.11. Dolisie - Point Noire (2)
27.11. Boucles de Wallis et Futuna (3)
29.11. Napier bluff Hill Circuit (3)

December 2024
04.12. Villalba GP (2)
08.12. GP de Papeete (TTT, 2)
15.12. GP Canyon de Chelly(3)
18.12. Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup (2)

23.12. Pavés d. Noel (needs a new race/profil)
24.12. X-Mas Islands
25.12. Betlehem
26.12. Tour d. Herne
31.12. St. Sylv/M St. Sylv

January 2025
01.01. GP Letzeburg (3)
03.01. Colombo - Agampodigama (2)
05.01. Aizawl Cup (3)
12.01. El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali(2)
15.01. Itabirito - Ouro Preto (2)

OUT
El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medelin
Yap Island Cup

[Robyklebt]

First Donkeypost about proposals for 2025-26:
Try to do it every 15 days this year.. wait too long forget everything.

Downgrade:

01.11. Gran Prix de Agadir (2) Cut; The race this year actually was fine, (I thought at the time, but don't actually remember anything) but still somehow can't get too excited about it
14.11. Kisoro-Kabale (3) A half vote to down to cat 2:) Only reason to leave it at 3 is that by now it has a pretty long history... Treat this as a warning to Kisoro-Kabale maybe, and an announcement that depending on my mood at the time I might give a second downgrade vote if somebody else does the first.

But about the possible downvote for Kisoro Kabale. How do we want to handle that in general. Cat 3 can only go down. But like that we risk having a nonstop up down up down for some races, 2 guys vote down, a year later 2 others want it back up. Can there be vetos? But then a race there is much harder to downgrade, 2 guys vote down, 1 veto, stays? But maybe better than nonstop + -?


+
Unhappily I propose nothing.

[Robyklebt]

Just a side note, although an important one.

Since now the name of the stage doesn't have to be the same to keep the history, can we change Dolisie-Point Noire to its correct name Pointe Noire from 2025 on? It hurts the Donkey's eyes and love for grammatical correctness (well, others, his own is less important) to see this error every year!

[Robyklebt]

My comments for the second part of November:

Possibly to give if not a map, then starting coordinates to Wallis et Futuna? Right now with no map, we get Paris weather.
No new races proposed, again, bad mintact and wrong naming put the one that would have gotten a + otherwise out of the running.

[team fl]

Offseason Classics 2025/26

As every year, we need C4F classics for the offseason calendar.

Main rules:

- Races ridden as cat 1 can be proposed as cat 2
- Cat 2 can be proposed as cat 3 or to be cut
- Cat 3 can be proposed to be cut down to cat 2
- Races that haven't been ridden yet, can't be nominated

A minimum of 2 nominations are necessary to get the change of category. Same counts for downgrading from Cat. 3 to Cat. 2 or cutting a race completely.

Races should be ridable regarding temperatures. Hence, races from places where it is decently warm during this time of the year are preferred.

Here are the C4F classics from last offseason:

October 2025
27.10. GP Brescia (3)
31.10. GP Coimbra (2)

November 2025
01.11. Gran Prix de Agadir (2)
04.11. Jable - Al Farandis (2)
07.11. San Francisco classic (3)
14.11. Kisoro-Kabale (3)
16.11. Seychelles Vacation Race (NEW)
19.11. Trofeo de Presa Allende (NEW)
22.11. Dolisie - Point Noire (2)
27.11. Boucles de Wallis et Futuna (3)
29.11. Napier Bluff Hill Circuit (3)

December 2025
04.12. Villalba GP (2)
08.12. GP de Papeete (TTT, 2)
15.12. GP Canyon de Chelly (3)
18.12. Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup (2)

23.12. Pavés d. Noel (3, needs a new race/profil)
24.12. X-Mas Islands (2)
25.12. Betlehem (2)
26.12. Tour d. Herne (2)
31.12. St. Sylv/M St. Sylv (2)

January 2026
01.01. GP Letzeburg (3)
03.01. Colombo - Agampodigama (2)
05.01. Aizawl Cup (3)
12.01. El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali (2)
15.01. Itabirito - Ouro Preto (2)

[flockmastoR]

My comments for the second part of November:

Possibly to give if not a map, then starting coordinates to Wallis et Futuna? Right now with no map, we get Paris weather.
No new races proposed, again, bad mintact and wrong naming put the one that would have gotten a + otherwise out of the running.

Will take a look at Wallis et Futuna

Okay looks like the the coordinates of the start point are already in the db, maybe Gip or Alk added them already

[Tukhtahuaev]

+
Around Freetown (15.11.24) - in bad taste to propose my own design, but the morning edition was won by Enea Novelli, which gives it an automatic plus
Bandar Lampung Cycling Cup (19.12.24) - to give the sprinters an opportunity in a hopefully not completely boring race

[Robyklebt]

For what on which date I would propose giving Taka full freedom to decide!
Like in the past, calendar assistant basically decides when the races are. Last year. Don't feel constained by FLs proposal!

Short history: offseason 1 day races used to be pretty structureless. Races added as classics then usually got their fix place, this is in early Dec. etc. stuff like that
Then Pokemon introduced rotation. 2 week North America, 2 weeks Africa, something like that. Instead of wild travel back and forth.
Donkey continued that. And the classics of course then if possible are in the "their" continental spot. Sometimes not possible, too many African classics one has to be ridden in "asia time".. .stuff like that.
AAD then last year changed the order, used to be the same every year. NA, Asia.. forgot what came after, Africa I think, then Oceania-SA, AAD changed that, fully ok of course, even good. So the dates in the FL proposal are the ones from last years order. But the order can change, up to Taka. He can go in whichever order he likes. If he wants he can also stop the continental rotation, Donks and AAD just kept it since it seemed a nice idea.

Point: Taka shouldn't feel he has to follow that order for classics, or put them on those days!!

[team fl]

For what on which date I would propose giving Taka full freedom to decide!
Like in the past, calendar assistant basically decides when the races are. Last year. Don't feel constained by FLs proposal!

As written many times, the offseason calendar draft is not more (or less) than a proposal. Final decision is up to the calendar guys. It's merely a community contribution to help and discuss. Same for the C4F classics of course.

Anyway, the Fürst will let you rot in his princely dungeons if you don't follow HIS orders, r TAKA!

[cataracs]

My votes:
cut:
Grand Prix de Agadir
Seychelles Vacation Race

down to 2:
Kisoro-Kabale
GP Canyon de Chelly

up to 3:
Itabirito - Ouro Preto
Jable - Al Farandis

Might nominate new races later

[Robyklebt]

For what on which date I would propose giving Taka full freedom to decide!
Like in the past, calendar assistant basically decides when the races are. Last year. Don't feel constained by FLs proposal!

As written many times, the offseason calendar draft is not more (or less) than a proposal. Final decision is up to the calendar guys. It's merely a community contribution to help and discuss. Same for the C4F classics of course.

Anyway, the Fürst will let you rot in his princely dungeons if you don't follow HIS orders, r TAKA!

I know!
You know that I know. Which I know.

But with that much knowledge between the 2 of us, I thought I better let Taka know! After all I don't know if he knows what we know. Do you know? It's his first time as off-season boss just wanted to make sure he knows that he can move stuff around as he likes.
Possibly you knew that of course.

[cataracs]

Offseason Classics 2025/26

As every year, we need C4F classics for the offseason calendar.

Main rules:

- Races ridden as cat 1 can be proposed as cat 2
- Cat 2 can be proposed as cat 3 or to be cut
- Cat 3 can be proposed to be cut down to cat 2
- Races that haven't been ridden yet, can't be nominated

A minimum of 2 nominations are necessary to get the change of category. Same counts for downgrading from Cat. 3 to Cat. 2 or cutting a race completely.

Races should be ridable regarding temperatures. Hence, races from places where it is decently warm during this time of the year are preferred.

Here are the C4F classics from last offseason:

October 2025
27.10. GP Brescia (3)
31.10. GP Coimbra (2)

November 2025
01.11. Gran Prix de Agadir (2)
04.11. Jable - Al Farandis (2)
07.11. San Francisco classic (3)
14.11. Kisoro-Kabale (3)
16.11. Seychelles Vacation Race (NEW)
19.11. Trofeo de Presa Allende (NEW)
22.11. Dolisie - Point Noire (2)
27.11. Boucles de Wallis et Futuna (3)
29.11. Napier Bluff Hill Circuit (3)

December 2025
04.12. Villalba GP (2)
08.12. GP de Papeete (TTT, 2)
15.12. GP Canyon de Chelly (3)
18.12. Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup (2)

23.12. Pavés d. Noel (3, needs a new race/profil)
24.12. X-Mas Islands (2)
25.12. Betlehem (2)
26.12. Tour d. Herne (2)
31.12. St. Sylv/M St. Sylv (2)

January 2026
01.01. GP Letzeburg (3)
03.01. Colombo - Agampodigama (2)
05.01. Aizawl Cup (3)
12.01. El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali (2)
15.01. Itabirito - Ouro Preto (2)

Can we have a deadline for the nominations? I want to have everything decided by the end of September so I can properly make a plan.