Suggestion for the offseason calendar

[team fl]

I just see it butwhy you put the Dec Tour so long ?

It is only a place holder, so I put it over the shown 16 days period. According to the rules, it's 14 days max of course, incl. rest day. Sorry if it is confusing . Btw. it's the same thing for the short fantasy tours. They don't have to have exactly the length that is shown... place holder again, you know .

[Robyklebt]

The Donkey will send his proposal to Luques very soon..

From the classics thread:

San Benito out, Taca Setubal and Crawford Montego Bay in. Chelly cat 3

So changes compared to this FL preview:

I'll propose Taca Setubal in 07.11
Crawford Montego Bay 12.11
Chelly 22.11. not 24, get it away from the weekend, which this year has been consistently weaker than weekdays.

As for the Andes, start 11th good? To me looks good, avoids a third weekend.

Parallel tours, there are some old tours around, if people tell me what to look for, some new ones too now, for the moment the Favorites are old Vietnam for during the Andes, Miranda for the 4 day tour at the end of the month and Guadeloupe/Windwards/Kagoshima for the early tour.

[Gipfelstuermer]

As for the Andes, start 11th good? To me looks good, avoids a third weekend.

Maybe start on Saturday 9th and end Sunday 24th? That would be a normal 2-week-tour setup including the weekends... And that's how it was in the past... Then move Coimbra after Andes perhaps. But I am also OK with starting Monday and ending Tuesday. Bit unusual but might even benefit the Morning/Afternoon teams who play from work.

Parallel tours, there are some old tours around, if people tell me what to look for, some new ones too now, for the moment the Favorites are old Vietnam for during the Andes, Miranda for the 4 day tour at the end of the month and Guadeloupe/Windwards/Kagoshima for the early tour.

Pah, parallel tours... Well ok, for those who can only ride short tours but no long tours... But participation might be really bad... So please maximum 3 editions for a parallel tour.

[Robyklebt]

Dates, I would go for avoiding the third weekend... So Tuesday to Sunday, as weird as it is. This year weekends have been really weak compared to weekdays. Not sure if it's the same in the evening, but during the day you get stage races with 2 guys online at times on the weekends.

Parallel tours, sorry, meant minor tours, only one is parallel, one focusing on sprinters, and 3 editions seems ok, yes. The other minor tours I'd go for 4 editions... IMO we are already seeing a drop in participation from October.

[team fl]

I think we should start talking about the offseason calender. Presumably, the Vuelta ends at 8 November. As far as I see it, the offseason starts during the week afterwards (last race according to PCS is Guangxi which ends at 10 November). This leads to a few questions:

- What happens with the Tour des Pavés, usually held at the end of October?

- Will the C.d.l.A. start in the second half of November or will it be instead of a December Tour?

- And consequently: Will there be a December Tour?

I think the rest of the offseason can be adapted accordingly without big problems.

[team fl]

Time to open the discussion. I try to provide a first draft / suggestion until the end of the week. If you already have ideas, post them here.

[team fl]

And here is the first draft

Offseason calender 2020-21 v1.PNG (71.85 KiB) Viewed 7259 times

[Robyklebt]

Nice, thanks, but

Every year similar problem

December Tour 14 days max
January tour should be 11.

[team fl]

Nice, thanks, but

Every year similar problem

December Tour 14 days max
January tour should be 11.

But it looks nice graphically!!!



Ah well, it seems that info does not last well in my brain, at least not for one year. Here the adapted version:

Offseason calender 2020-21 v2.PNG (71.19 KiB) Viewed 7242 times

[Robyklebt]

More criticism

a) Mosell, we had it out, since 2018 (finally!!!!!!!!) why do you insist on re-adding it, and as only race named? Grrr. As it stands Mosell is out, if that is a nomination, nominate in the correct thread! (And delete it from your Excel sheet, so it doesn't reappear every year, even if in it doesn't need to get the special mention)

b) Parallel tours to Andes and Dectour.
b1) Andes last year one stage race parallel 2... ok, Andes is for specialists, those without a strong mountain team can ride it, but makes little sense really, so maybe 2 is ok? Maybe. One sure, with a high number of sprints, since sprinters normally should not have any reason to go to the Andes. The second... not sure.

b2) Dectour. Seems last year we didn't have any stage race parallel at all? Interesting. But IMO better than 2. The Dec tour should be a "general tour", so there should be something for every type of rider, for every team. And we don't want to make the parallel money-program too attractive, so 2 is clearly too many. 1 or 0 is the question. 1 the argument would be: Those that can't or don't want to ride 2 weeks at the same time get something too. The argument for 0 is: Maximize participation at the Dec tour. And probably a rather high percentage of those that can't ride 2 weeks at the same time can't ride 5 or so days either. So either 0 or 1, not 2!

Ah, and somebody (I think Tim Eiffel, but not sure) usually tells everybody that tours from Monday to Friday are better, since then the weekends are out and for those that put family first then it's easier to ride. So parallel to Andes on weekdays, parallel to Dectour, if we want a parallel tour on weekdays too.

c) RSF classic parallel to Dec tour AND to a parallel stage race surely out, different date, we want them with good participation after all.

I haven't counted the number of RSF classics, so not sure if they are correct, but as usual we just take the ones that make the cut in the other thread I think. If I remember correctly we had more than 2018 last year, but think the number from 2019 was probably around right, so we shouldn't add more or delete more, ok 1 max 2 in each direction ok, but otherwise keep the number stable now?

[team fl]

More criticism

(...)

Noted, thanks for your thoughts. I wait a bit for more comments and will put the new version online at the end of the week. Or should we do this via PM as we are the only ones invested in this topic so far .

[cataracs]

I'm waiting for an update! Because if you consider what Donkey said, the table will look very different.
There ar 2 Classics less than last year, are we removing 2?

[team fl]

I'm waiting for an update! Because if you consider what Donkey said, the table will look very different.
There ar 2 Classics less than last year, are we removing 2?

Not really that much different. He wrote a lot, but the changes are not that big.

Number of classics is open for discussion. The calender is still in the drafting process after all, nothing is fix, nothing is safe. If you have ideas or suggestion, post them. Every input is valuable, in one way or another .

[team fl]

Short delay for the new draft. Tuesday or Wednesday most likely.

[Robyklebt]

Later is better as long as we haven't solved the Sardegna issue! See October calendar.

[team fl]

Later is better as long as we haven't solved the Sardegna issue! See October calendar.

Seems reasonable. Then I wait with the next draft until there is a decision about it. Hope I don't forget about all the changes until then

[cataracs]

Do we have any updates?

[team fl]

Do we have any updates?

Indeed:

Offseason calender 2020-21 v3.PNG (72.48 KiB) Viewed 6941 times

[Robyklebt]

I'm still not convinced by

- 2 stage races parallel to the Andes
- 1 stage race parallel to the Dec tour
- RSF classics
- RSF classics

First 2 points are self explanatory, but since the Donkey is himself, so a self, he explains anyway.

Last year we had 1 and 0, basically to try to increase participation in the main event. Now of course for the Andes that's a bit critical anyway, it is a specialists tour after all, as it should. So offering less parallel maybe doesn't have such a big impact, depending on what we offer. Certainly nothign that a climber can win.

The 2 last points.
RSF classics: German cultural domination! Call it c4f classics
RSF classics: Sat-Sunday, bad, better more during the week, participation simply is better during weekdays normally.

Counting the number of classics another day.

And just to be clear, while I'll try to follow this here as close of possible, but can't regard it as obligatory. Stuff like number of days for the tour here will be only as an idea, depending on what stage races I can find might be different. The PDF at the end of the month will still be the one that counts.

[cataracs]

And just to be clear, while I'll try to follow this here as close of possible, but can't regard it as obligatory. Stuff like number of days for the tour here will be only as an idea, depending on what stage races I can find might be different. The PDF at the end of the month will still be the one that counts.

Isn't there some kind of competition for the offseason stageraces? If not then why not make one? That way it's easier to have it all planned, and have tours with xx number of days ready.

[team fl]

The PDF at the end of the month will still be the one that counts.

Of course, this has been clear to me, contrary to other things . But some remarks:

- The length of the fantasy tours is only a suggestion.

- RSF... ehm C4F classics on weekdays, sure that. But it would be nice to have more opinions about that. Number should be around the same as last year. Because of last year's calendar, I chose some weekends too. But I don't mind putting them during the week.

- Parallel stage races to Andes and December tour: To me it looks like that we have a bit more participation than last year, but that's only my impression. So for me, two for andes and one for December tour feels okay. Anyway, if the calander guy(s) have another opinion, fine for me too. I won't ride the tours anyway, most likely.


Honestly, I expected worse


@cataracs/Taka: There has been an offseason competition once. But simply post your races, the calender guy(s) will then pick the most fitting, I guess.

[Robyklebt]

Not a fan of many competitions, and yes, we had them years back. I usually voted, but voting for the Dec tour, then voting for 4 day 5 day 6 day, maybe even 3 and 7 day tours.. .blaaah. Then sometimes good tours were wasted since after losing the vote they couldn't be put in.

IMO the Dec tour vote should be something special. And as well the shorter tours are a good chance to "reward" designers.. Not only, but for example if we have 2 similarly good stage races, I'll chose the one designed by somebody who either has designed lots of real races, like Gipfel for example (others too) or that design lots of fantasy races, like OL for example, or you with the many tours you've designed. And look not too have too many tours from the same designers.

Plus with votes we might end up with tours that somehow don't fit the calendar...for example nothing for sprinters during the Andes. Which IMO should be there. Or all tours for climbers.

FL; I knew you know, after all you keep posting that most of your stuff is just a "placeholder" Was mostly for Taka, that DICKson, , since he seemed to take my threat to completely ignore what you post and do something completely different in the race today seriously. And for others that might read here, it's an overview that will be followed relatively closely, but not 100%. You know, I know, but we have to face the sad truth. Not everybody here is as knowledgeable as we are. We are truly special!

[cataracs]

Ok, so by competition I wasn't thinking about people voting. It could be just Donkey?
But the point is to be professional! We should have the classics and stage races for the offseason planned here in advance...no last-minute tour picking...ugh.
Plus, it could get designers more interested maybe? Since I couldn't see anybody drawing/posting small tours, recently. (maybe I'm wrong?)

But again, I think it will be cool to have the plan for November/December/January ready by the end of this month.

[team fl]

But again, I think it will be cool to have the plan for November/December/January ready by the end of this month.

I guess the main points are already pretty fix, like C.d.l.A., Dec-Tour, special Xmas- and Sylvester-races, Jan-Tour. Everything else might be up to shortterm changes anyway. But as usual, the calendar for the next month should be up in the current month to plan ahead and set form, most likely

[Robyklebt]

Parallel Tours, ok then I provisionally plan with 2-1 parallel tours. Unless we get more opinions.