Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:30 pm

Alkworld wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:28 pm
I haven't implemented publishing races to the real calendar (coming before April)
The pressure is on I guess!
I suppose I can't put stuff designed in the new editor on from the old tool. So... better make publishing races ready fast! (For Gipfel of course, makes no sense to teach an ape new tricks he'll hardly need.)
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Alkworld » Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:59 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:30 pm
Alkworld wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:28 pm
I haven't implemented publishing races to the real calendar (coming before April)
The pressure is on I guess!
I suppose I can't put stuff designed in the new editor on from the old tool. So... better make publishing races ready fast! (For Gipfel of course, makes no sense to teach an ape new tricks he'll hardly need.)
It's pretty straightforward, one button ("publish" or something similar) to click, data is copied from one place to the other in the database. The actual work (setting dates, times, putting profiles to tours, etc) is done beforehand in the race editor. I'll try to implement it on the weekend.

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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:26 pm

Alkworld wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:59 pm
Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:30 pm
Alkworld wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:28 pm
I haven't implemented publishing races to the real calendar (coming before April)
The pressure is on I guess!
I suppose I can't put stuff designed in the new editor on from the old tool. So... better make publishing races ready fast! (For Gipfel of course, makes no sense to teach an ape new tricks he'll hardly need.)
It's pretty straightforward, one button ("publish" or something similar) to click, data is copied from one place to the other in the database. The actual work (setting dates, times, putting profiles to tours, etc) is done beforehand in the race editor. I'll try to implement it on the weekend.
The problem I see with that really is fantasy races? But maybe I still don't get the whole process.

Ok, tell me if the following is more or less ok.

Designing:

Real race: Start from race editor (here too, don't REALLY get why, starting from profile editor really changes nothing?)
Click +
Get rid of the list so you can see what you enter in the fields on the right, that then get the full width of the screen
Enter name, description, category (means you have to check somewhere), number of riders. Then event, which will soon be a huge list.
Then click edit the stage
There enter race type, stage type, bonifications (here unclear what you mean. Do you mean the actual bonifications? 10-6-4? Or what type of stage it is, for the sprint points etc.? Probably the second one?)
Then you create a new profile.
Once that's done, mintact, then enter race editions. Here the first problem. Until the calendar is finalized (so far on the 25th) you can't be sure at what time it will be. For races under category 4 so far no times where given in the preview. Now? Will the calendar master or assistant have to make the whole shell thing early in the month? Or do the designers leave the times empty and just put in the date?
Then the calendar master/assistant clickes that publish thing and all is done.

Fantasy race:
Same but easier the other way around, start from profile editor, I heard somewhere, I still dont' see why.
Done that, open race editor, put in the same stuff as above.
Then... the calendar stuff at the end, what are you supposed to put in here? Everybody just puts in his wish date and times? Can I reserve 2099-12-31 and 2100-01-01 already now? Or the 100st anniversary of the first c4f race, which I think was 2005-12-26? (That's why Herne Cup there, I think) 2105-12-26 Honoring the Big Donkey Cup, ha! Eat my dick you unborn youngsters that will have to race that 200 km race with mintact at km 20! Anyway, what put in there? Nothing seems logic to me.
And then the calender master (not me, not me) will have to chose a fantasy race, put the times in there... So in the end the work will be on him again, but will involve lots of clicking back and forth.


Ok, the whole thing seems a bit click heavy. And tab changing heavy. And light on using "tab" to change from one box to the other. And I feel there's so much emphasis on the right names for the history, so that lots is sort of dependent on that. But we actually have more fantasy races than real races. Then again it's built almost more for stage races than one day races. Which the way I see it then makes it rather cumbersome. And even when designing a stage in a stage race you then have to link it in the race editor to the profile.

The 2 screens, race editor, profile editor... lots of it could be combined for one day races.
One easy solution would be that you have to start from one screen, and the first thing you're asked is: Stage race or one day race, and there it splits. One day race? Just one screen needed. Name, type, number of riders, mintact all in the same place, not split like now because of the stage race thing. Stage race then maybe a second screen needed, haven't thought about that yet.

As for the publishing: General questions
-What happens once a race is published? Does it stay in the lists, does it move to a used list (like now for one day races in the old tool, doesn't work for stage races) ?
-How exactly is it supposed to work with fantasy races (maybe my assumption above is wrong)

Ok, out of questions, thought I had more...

One more, but not publishing. Why ingame ingame? Couldn't it open a new tab automatically? Then you could more easily design while riding a race with an endless RKL mintact :lol: And are the headers there all really necessary. Do we really need the RSF banner there? Click editor ingame, be sent to another page in a new tab, and get more S P A C E for the whole process?


Keep in mind that I'm so used to the old one that of course I need to get used to the new one, so some stuff that I mention now maybe is not an issue in a few weeks, but for the moment it really seems unnecessarily complicated, clicking, tabs, almost designed more for the history than user-friendly.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Fri Apr 14, 2023 3:55 pm

Seems like the profile picture bugs out if minimum altitude isn't set to 0 or lower.

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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by schappy » Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:58 pm

Can somebody explain me in easy words for a dumb person, how this works? I do again a new "profile" in the editor. I really dont know how i can make from this a race in the race editor. Tryed everything, nothing works.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Schnuggeritos » Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:11 pm

Create a Race (no profile) and go to the section "stages" and assign the profilecode. Easy enough?
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by schappy » Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:33 am

Danke Schnugg.

but for other dumb people, it is possible this "Kasten" that i visible on the right side after one step put under? Never thought, that on the top something new is to do something there.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:43 pm

flockmastoR wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:37 am
As you might have noticed, the designing of races has also changed and was integrated into the game.

I (Alive And Dead) will now coordinate the fantasy calendar, at least during the season. Just a small overview on the workflow how I would like it to be.

Profile Editor
1) Design your race and tag it as OneDayFantasy, as long as it has the Design status, it is seen as not finished
2) Change the status to Review if you are finished designing. It is now in the review process, which on one day fantasy races is just a quick look at the profile (check for pave bug and appearance of climbs etc). The profil can just be ridden if it is approved by one of the Calendar admins. Real races can be discussed in the corresponding Calendar Coordination topic, see viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9433&p=116453#p116453 for the new Paris-Camembert, Brabant design.
Race Editor
3) Don't wait for the admin to approve it, create the race when you are ready with creating the profile. Here you can select the real name of the race as it appears in the Profile title and also Palmares. You can give a description, specify the number of riders and chose category 1 for fantasy one day races. At Bonification you can select if it is a flat, hilly, mountain race or an individual or team time trial. Now copy the ProfileCode from the Profile Editor and select a min tact (Please use an even number). Ignore the Race Editions (and date) and save the race.

Once the race appears in the Race Editor, I will review it, approve the profile and select a date when it is ridden.

Status Quo
With the switch to the in-game editor, there is a transition time, where not a lot of new profiles are available, and the workflow is not known by every designer. I see many profiles by Tukhtahuaev, Schnuggeritos, Schappy, r TAKA, Laugenspitze, FSG Sattelpuper that are still in the Design stage and some that are in the Review stage but not appear in the Race Editor. It is planned that you create the races yourself, because of the specifications to be made there (number of riders, min tact) but in the transition phase, I will create races myself with your designs that are in the Review stage.

I am a designer and already designed some races, what should I do now?
1) If you have finished profiles in the Design status, open it, recheck and hit the green Start Review button.
2) Go to the Race Editor and create a race with your profil that is in the Review stage
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by schappy » Sat May 27, 2023 8:21 am

One thing a wish for the editor. If you insert a race in the race Editor, is it possible to show the Picture of it under the "stages" tab? I have to open a second Browser tab to see when the mintact could start. Okay i can memory this thing for 10 seconds, but not my head.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by schappy » Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:15 am

Can we have a option to make a "Offseason" race. I do this Cap Verde race more for the offseason. I think we had enough races in Europe or the northern World. It is maybe easier for the Calendar maker when we can declarate it as offseason.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by flockmastoR » Mon Jul 24, 2023 12:29 pm

schappy wrote:
Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:15 am
Can we have a option to make a "Offseason" race. I do this Cap Verde race more for the offseason. I think we had enough races in Europe or the northern World. It is maybe easier for the Calendar maker when we can declarate it as offseason.
It was an error from my side. Usually I check this when putting stuff online and you are totally right -> it was a clearly designed for the off season. But I just saw the error today.

Some more infos would be nice in the calendar editor -> AGREE

My proposals:

1) Profile Editor -> Keep the filter settings until the editor ACTIVELY dismisses them. Sometimes I want to check for special information about length and altitude but when I click on the first race and want to check the next, my filter is reset again. Like it is now I cannot/don't use this tab at all.

2) Profile Editor -> Calendar admins should probably see all races there automatically and not just the things you designed yourself (but thats a minor thing that is just annoying in combination with point 1)

3) Race Editor -> More information there on the Race type (flat, hilly, mountain, ITT, TTT at least, pave if possible) OR add column like "Info" where the designer can right something too, such as "light flat pave", or "HC finish", or "early climb, flat race". Here the designer can give meaningfull short explanation for the calendar admins. The calendar admin can also edit that field, here you also tag it for usage "caribean offseason" for example.

4) Calendar Preview -> Confusing small space between "Date" and "Times", hard to read for my taste
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by cataracs » Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:33 pm

Just used the new editor for a day or so, and I think it's decent in general. But here are the changes I think I'd need as a designer.

Leave the race editor section for the admins, we designers just need the profile editor section. Race creation should be the admin job.

In the profile editor, make the "profile code" and the "name" possible to edit.

Add the mintact, the race type (flat, hilly..ect) to the profile editor section.

And that's pretty much it I think, "Event" and the rest of things should be dealt with by the admin.

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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by schappy » Tue Aug 08, 2023 7:38 am

Very much work for the admins, if he have to do every Race.

You can Edit the profile code until you save it. If you can change the profile code after you doing a race, the race doenst work anymore. So its hard to change that.

Add the mintact in the Editor is very Fine for me, i often have to look back, when i set the mintact in the Race Editor.

The race Type for Stage races is better do to in the Race editor. Sometimes the Organisation of stage races change here the Category.

And welcome to the new Editor :)
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:45 am

cataracs wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:33 pm
Just used the new editor for a day or so, and I think it's decent in general. But here are the changes I think I'd need as a designer.

Leave the race editor section for the admins, we designers just need the profile editor section. Race creation should be the admin job.

In the profile editor, make the "profile code" and the "name" possible to edit.

Add the mintact, the race type (flat, hilly..ect) to the profile editor section.

And that's pretty much it I think, "Event" and the rest of things should be dealt with by the admin.
I am happy about the seperation of Profil and Race as it is right now for several reasons:

1) Time: putting on about 20+ fantasy races for a month is a lot of work already. The Profile Editor currently doesn't support meaningfull search without resetting the filter after each profil selection. This would right now result in a load of clicking through profiles and eventually force me to use a seperate excel sheet for managing them

2) Actuality: When the designer creates the race in the Race Editor it automatically gets attributed the current date and I see immediately if new races are added to the database. When I want to check in the Profile Editor for new stuff, there is all those test profiles, fantasy tour stages and a lot of profiles in the design status + there is just that "last updated" row that is kind of mixing all of those. I just need ready-to-publish fantasy one day races.

3) Name/type makes sense to be seperated from the profile, especially when thinking about stage races. Mintact for me was also strange it is in the Race page but it is ok like that.

4) Everything can still be edited by the calendar admins. This means if you don't find the proper event or don't know that there is one you can just leave that out.

But thanks for your input. Stuff like event search need to be improved (can we add a text search and the dropdown only contains matching entries, then you can just type what you search or the 2-3 variations that are possible + add more information if the event is a one day race/ stage race/ what category) in my eyes as well as the filtering.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by lennylenny » Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:50 am

flockmastoR wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:45 am

2) Actuality: When the designer creates the race in the Race Editor it automatically gets attributed the current date and I see immediately if new races are added to the database. When I want to check in the Profile Editor for new stuff, there is all those test profiles, fantasy tour stages and a lot of profiles in the design status + there is just that "last updated" row that is kind of mixing all of those. I just need ready-to-publish fantasy one day races.
I created a fantasy race that i intended for the offseason and put the date for the race in november, maybe some tag system would help so races could be tagged for inseason/offseason
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:05 pm

flockmastoR wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:45 am
The Profile Editor currently doesn't support meaningfull search without resetting the filter after each profil selection.
Note to myself and alk:
Yep, this we need to improve (among many other things mentioned). When selecting a profile, the filters should remain the same and not jump back to the default filter.

Ideally, we get some of the improvements done this month before Dec Tour contest starts.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:18 pm

lennylenny wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:50 am
flockmastoR wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:45 am

2) Actuality: When the designer creates the race in the Race Editor it automatically gets attributed the current date and I see immediately if new races are added to the database. When I want to check in the Profile Editor for new stuff, there is all those test profiles, fantasy tour stages and a lot of profiles in the design status + there is just that "last updated" row that is kind of mixing all of those. I just need ready-to-publish fantasy one day races.
I created a fantasy race that i intended for the offseason and put the date for the race in november, maybe some tag system would help so races could be tagged for inseason/offseason
True, see my answer from 24th of July.

You can use the date for proposals as well, a tag might still be more usefull
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Aug 12, 2023 11:56 pm

The tool as it is now is frustrating. Very.

One problem is: It feels like it was re-inventing the wheel, which wasn't necessary. The old editor was working fairly well, user friendly, can be improved. The old tools for upload buggy as hell, but the principle seemed sound. Why not build something similar and improve it? Why change that much? For example, what's the point in changing the GPX height and the c4f height column, Opposite from what it was before. No, no need to change it back, now everybody used to this order, but why change it in the first place?

Maybe one of the admins with access to the old tools could post a screen shot here, would be easier for me to explain my tons of criticism....

But anyway:

The all in one concept can work, no need to have 4 separate things as before (editor, upload tour, upload one day races, deletions and changes) but as it is now not convincing.

But ok, let's be more specific:

Big problem the white screens. Not only on firefox, but had them on chrome too the other day. Or maybe was Edge. Changing from create profile to race in Firefox only possibly, clicking on the info things in race editor resulted in the white screen in the other browser too.

Create profile: Default is having all the list, overview whatever on. What for. I'm there to make a race, not to see a big list of races I did, make the default without the list. Of course the "+" to make a new profile disappears when taking the list off....

Details: The part where you design. It's a tiny quarter of the screen. Make it big. THAT'S the most important part. You want to see more than just the tiny 18km extract you see now. Off with the list. Make the overview smaller or make it part of details somehow like in the old editor. Smaller anyway or more horizontal than vertical.
Make it possible to put in the percentages directly there, without that extra window. SEe the old editor.
Make it possible to turn of the automatic recalculation that is in now. It's preciser than the optional calculator we had in the old one, that one was somehow off further at times, then corrected itself. This one here better, but we still can have cases when losing one meter results in a -1 winning it back the next km a +1. (It's unavoidable I think, and it's good, but make it optional)

Got another white screen, not going to reload, so back to more generalities.

When going to the editor, don't start with planned calendar (although that is good for information) but with create profile:
There have to buttons to click: a) one day race b) stage race.
If you click one day race, you get to an editor where you put EVERYTHING in the editor in that place. No back and forth between race editor and create profile. For one day races there's simply no need for 2 screens. The "overview" info that is there in create profile and race editor can easily be put together on that one screen for one day races. But cut the race edition options, it has nothing to do there. And cut the "tbd" in some of the fields. If you don't delete and and add your own stuff, it ends up in the race calendar. And make the fields "remember" stuff. Like the old editor. There on top I could just go through all those fields with tab down button for my name for example, tab next thing. Already tired of deleting Big Donkey each time to write RKL. And make the drop down menus user friendly, meaning put in U, then it jumps to Ukraine, or whatever the first country with U is.

If you click stage races, the 2 tabs setup makes more sense, I haven't come up with a good alternative yet. Seems better than the old system. (The screenshot would be nice) But there is no reason to put in the mintact in the race screen. Neither for the stage name (another annoying thing, the profile changes back and forth between the name and the profile ID)

Put online part, to which I think I don't have access anymore (good! don't restore it, I don't want to risk clicking on the wrong thing) Seemed not to be all that user friendly either. The times: Here the old system was easier, put in the date in one field, jump to the next field with tab, put in the numbers for the time, tab, next number etc. Not like now with the plus and all the mousing around.
Then like before, would be nice to have a the most important things there too, to put in (with the nice mostly mouseless tab key method), number of riders, category. Just to make sure that it's correct, we designers do make mistakes at times, put in the wrong number of riders. It can be pre-filled from what the designers put in, but it should be there to put in again easily without having to mouse around and click on 5 places (can't criticize that well, since I don't have that tool) But hope it's somehow understandable.

Changes-deletion tool, all integrated now, but as far as I know there isn't a proper tool for that yet, you need to go to the database. Make one, will make the job of the uploader easier too, Gipfel and AAD, you will make mistakes, you will have to make changes at some point. And if one day you decide you want to give the job to a non-admin, that guy won't have access to the database.

Ah, the reuse the profiles thing. Nice. But de facto in the old one there finally never was a problem with reusing the same profile either, theoretically there was. But now all on the same server, easier, good.
But IMO rename the file in all cases. Even now in some cases we see old editions with the profile of this years edition (saw that a while ago, forgot which race, sorry) It possibly (actually probably, not possibly) has more to do with the "event"? (there too the drop down menu needs to be sensitive to what you click on your keyboard) Ok, event then, make sure it doesn't change old profiles to the newest one.
AS for renaming files, even if not connected to this, best to put the year at the end of the race if it's re-raced another year. Normal fantasy: "superduperdonkey" It becomes a classic in 2024. Resave it under "superduperdonkey24) For fantasy races maybe no problem, since they don't change (most of the time) but for real races it's nice to see the year, one day races have the habit of changing, now 25 some race has the profile from 22 again? Then change it to 25, because when in 2030 it has the same profile again it will be harder to go find it if it doesn't have 25 written on it.

Additonal stuff:
For example somewhere you could add interviews (for one day races on the only tab!!) If the designer has an idea for an interview or interviews, let them put it in. If not use the standard ones as now. But for some races would be nice to get that.

Ok, not everything and highly disorganized (but equally brilliant) I'll come back with more flooding another day, but thought that since I'm on fire today, I better do this now instead of postponing it for another day. Then another one. And so on.
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:25 am

For something I mentioned above: The old profiles sort of disappearing.

See Zottegem, Schal Sels and Bretagne in August 22 for example. I don't know exactly why, probably naming issues, but would be nice to find a way this doesn't happen
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:56 am

Robyklebt wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:25 am
For something I mentioned above: The old profiles sort of disappearing.

See Zottegem, Schal Sels and Bretagne in August 22 for example. I don't know exactly why, probably naming issues, but would be nice to find a way this doesn't happen
It is a temporary problem only, which will solve itself as more and more races are moved from the old server to the new server. It happens as the old profile is copied over from the old server to the new server. And then it solves itself once the old profile is re-used (because 2022 and 2023 are same route) or the old profile gets removed from the new server again (because 2023 is a new route).

As an example, Zottegem 2022 should be solved (you might need to clean your Cache though) and Bretagne 2022 is not yet solved (but you can help if you check or design Bretagne 2023).
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:23 am

Anything in that long rambling post of mine that has a chance to be taken in consideration?
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Re: Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:31 am

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:23 am
Anything in that long rambling post of mine that has a chance to be taken in consideration?
Most of it. Yes. Good feedback and there is even more on the to do list just for the editor.

Only problem is time and priorities for now. Alk mostly working on NC right now. I'm mostly working on FPC right now. Both are somewhat hidden features (only the few NC and FPC members will see the progress), so community might not see much progress right now, but development is continuing.

If in the meantime Alk finds some time for Editor improvements, would be great. He'll be faster than me in making changes to the Editor because he created the whole thing. Now would be a good time before the Fantasy Design season fully kicks off.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

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