General Table Also For The Real Season

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Coroncina2
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General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:31 pm

I think that could be usefull make a general table for deciding a frame work of all real season.
Actually we use to plan calendar month by month discussing each time in a few days what races do next month.
This leads to wait till few days before next month to know which race we will play in rsf. This problem does not concern the greatest races (Giro, Milano San Remo, RVV, LBL, Paris Roubaix and so on) but the contour races (Tour of Alberta, China II, Tour of Czech Republic, Giro della Toscana) that still make palmares and allow to make money to improve the team.
Know in time which race we do will help:
1) designers to organize better his time and not wait till few days from next month who draws what,
2) manager to set form in time even on less prestige race if they haven't a top team.
I'm not pretending to plan all singol day, and I don't care on what fantasy will be put on the holes of real calendar, but at least know what real races they will be doing next year.
It sure that in dicember we didn't know all UCI races. So I suggest to add on our "general table calendar" time by time we know that a race will take place.

For exaple:
January
16 - 21 Down Under

PS: could be also nice write in this Table who is working on which race, to avoid two designers doing the same thing.
May
4-27 Giro
Last edited by luques on Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by team fl » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:04 pm

Feel free :)
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:57 pm

Ok, a framework is a different thing from a full 100% calendar for every day like you seemed to propose before.
Why not... Of course I think most of the things are clear anyway, but there's nothing wrong with doing what you propose. IF you're ready to accept criticism for your proposal and not accuse everybody that disagrees of being morally inferior, not a real cycling lover and trying to tailor the calendar to his/her own team.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:01 am

January
Monday 15-gen Amissa Bongo 2.1
Tuesday 16-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1
Wednesday17-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1
Thursday 18-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1
Friday 19-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1
Saturday 20-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1
Sunday 21-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1 San Juan 2.1
Monday 22-gen San Juan 2.1
Tuesday 23-gen San Juan 2.1
Wednesday24-gen Sharjah 2.1 San Juan 2.1
Thursday 25-gen Sharjah 2.1 San Juan 2.1
Friday 26-gen Sharjah 2.1 San Juan 2.1 Indonesia 2.1
Saturday 27-gen Sharjah 2.1 San Juan 2.1 Indonesia 2.1
Sunday 28-gen Cadel Evans 1. UWT La Maseillaise 1.1 San Juan 2.1 Indonesia 2.1
Monday 29-gen San Juan 2.1 Indonesia 2.1
Tuesday 30-gen
Wednesday31-gen Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:02 am

February
Thursday 01-feb Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1
Friday 02-feb Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1
Saturday 03-feb Desert Pearl 1.1 Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1
Sunday 04-feb GS Emilia 1.1 Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1
Monday 05-feb
Tuesday 06-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1
Wednesday07-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1
Thursday 08-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Friday 09-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Saturday 10-feb Mucia Costa Calida 1.1 Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Sunday 11-feb Almeria 1.HC Laigueglia 1.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Monday 12-feb
Tuesday 13-feb Oman 2.HC
Wednesday14-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1
Thursday 15-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1
Friday 16-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1
Saturday 17-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1 Haut Var 2.1
Sunday 18-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1 Haut Var 2.1
Monday 19-feb
Tuesday 20-feb
Wednesday21-feb Abu Dhabi 2.UWT
Thursday 22-feb Abu Dhabi 2.UWT
Friday 23-feb Abu Dhabi 2.UWT
Saturday 24-feb Het Nieuwsblad 1.UWT Ardèche Rhône Crussol 1.1 Abu Dhabi 2.UWT
Sunday 25-feb Kuurne - Bruxelles - Kuurne 1.HC Royal Bernard Drome Classic 1.1Abu Dhabi 2.UWT
Monday 26-feb
Tuesday 27-feb
Wednesday28-feb
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:05 am

March
Thursday 01-mar
Friday 02-mar
Saturday 03-mar Strade Bianche 1.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Sunday 04-mar Industria e Artigianato 1.HC Dwars door West-Vlaanderen 1.1 Paris - Nice 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Monday 05-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Tuesday 06-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Wednesday07-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Thursday 08-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Friday 09-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Saturday 10-mar Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT Langkawi 2.HC
Sunday 11-mar Ronde van Drenthe 1.HC Paris - Nice 2.UWT Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Monday 12-mar Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Tuesday 13-mar Tirreno - Adriatico 2.UWT
Wednesday14-mar Danilith Nokere Koerse 1.HC
Thursday 15-mar
Friday 16-mar Handzame 1.HC
Saturday 17-mar Milano - Sanremo 1.UWT
Sunday 18-mar Valenciennes Métropole 1.HC
Monday 19-mar Catalunya 2.UWT
Tuesday 20-mar Catalunya 2.UWT
Wednesday21-mar Driedaagse De Panne - Koksijde 1.HC Catalunya 2.UWT
Thursday 22-mar Catalunya 2.UWT Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Friday 23-mar E3 Harelbeke 1.UWT Catalunya 2.UWT Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Saturday 24-mar Loire Atlantique 1.1 Catalunya 2.UWT Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Sunday 25-mar Gent-Wevelgem 1.UWT Catalunya 2.UWT Coppi e Bartali 2.1
Monday 26-mar
Tuesday 27-mar
Wednesday28-mar Dwars door Vlaanderen 1.UWT
Thursday 29-mar
Friday 30-mar Route Adélie de Vitré 1.1
Saturday 31-mar Volta Limburg 1.1
Last edited by Coroncina2 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:07 am

April
Sunday 01-apr Ronde van Vlaanderen 1.UWT Trophée Harmonie Mutuelle 1.1 La Rioja 1.1 Thailand 2.1
Monday 02-apr Pais Vasco 2.UWT Thailand 2.1
Tuesday 03-apr Pais Vasco 2.UWT Thailand 2.1 Pays de la Loire 2.1
Wednesday04-apr Scheldeprijs 1.HC Pais Vasco 2.UWT Thailand 2.1 Pays de la Loire 2.1
Thursday 05-apr Pais Vasco 2.UWT Thailand 2.1 Pays de la Loire 2.1
Friday 06-apr Pais Vasco 2.UWT Thailand 2.1
Saturday 07-apr Pais Vasco 2.UWT
Sunday 08-apr Paris - Roubaix 1.UWT Klasika Primavera de Amorebiea 1.1
Monday 09-apr
Tuesday 10-apr Paris-Camembert 1.1
Wednesday11-apr Flèche Brabançonne 1.HC
Thursday 12-apr
Friday 13-apr Finistère 1.1
Saturday 14-apr
Sunday 15-apr Amstel Gold Race 1.UWT Tro-Bro Léon 1.1
Monday 16-apr
Tuesday 17-apr Croatia 2.HC
Wednesday18-apr La Flèche Wallonne 1.UWT Croatia 2.HC
Thursday 19-apr Croatia 2.HC
Friday 20-apr Croatia 2.HC
Saturday 21-apr Croatia 2.HC
Sunday 22-apr Liège-Bastogne-Liège 1.UWT Croatia 2.HC
Monday 23-apr Alpes 2.HC
Tuesday 24-apr Romandie 2.UWT Alpes 2.HC
Wednesday25-apr Romandie 2.UWT Alpes 2.HC
Thursday 26-apr Romandie 2.UWT Alpes 2.HC
Friday 27-apr Romandie 2.UWT Alpes 2.HC Asturias 2.1
Saturday 28-apr Romandie 2.UWT Asturias 2.1
Sunday 29-apr Appennino 1.1 Romandie 2.UWT Asturias 2.1
Monday 30-apr
Last edited by Coroncina2 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:08 am

May
Tuesday 01-mag Eschborn-Frankfurt 1.UWT
Wednesday02-mag
Thursday 03-mag Yorkshire 2.1
Friday 04-mag Yorkshire 2.1 Madrid 2.1
Saturday 05-mag Giro 2.UWT Yorkshire 2.1 Madrid 2.1
Sunday 06-mag GP Somme 1.1 Giro 2.UWT Yorkshire 2.1 Madrid 2.1
Monday 07-mag Giro 2.UWT
Tuesday 08-mag Baku-Khizi Eco 1.1 Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC
Wednesday09-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1
Thursday 10-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1
Friday 11-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1 Aragon 2.1
Saturday 12-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1 Aragon 2.1
Sunday 13-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1Aragon 2.1
Monday 14-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT
Tuesday 15-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT
Wednesday16-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC
Thursday 17-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC
Friday 18-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1
Saturday 19-mag New Energy 1.1 Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1
Sunday 20-mag Giro 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1 Japan 2.1
Monday 21-mag Giro 2.UWT Japan 2.1
Tuesday 22-mag Giro 2.UWT Fjords 2.HC Japan 2.1
Wednesday23-mag Giro 2.UWT Fjords 2.HC Belgium 2.HC Japan 2.1
Thursday 24-mag Giro 2.UWT Fjords 2.HC Belgium 2.HC Japan 2.1
Friday 25-mag Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Japa 2.1 Estonia 2.1
Saturday 26-mag GP Plumelec-Morbihan 1.1 Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Japan 2.1 Estonia 2.1
Sunday 27-mag Aulne - Chateulin 1.1 Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Japan 2.1
Monday 28-mag
Tuesday 29-mag Peace race 2.1
Wednesday30-mag Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1
Thursday 31-mag Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Last edited by Coroncina2 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:19 am

June
Friday 01-giu Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Saturday 02-giu Market Heistse Pijl 1.1 Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Sunday 03-giu Città di Lugano 1.HC Independence 1.1 Dauphiné 2.HC Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Monday 04-giu Dauphiné 2.HC
Tuesday 05-giu Dauphiné 2.HC
Wednesday06-giu Dauphiné 2.HC
Thursday 07-giu Argovie 1.HC Dauphiné 2.HC
Friday 08-giu Dauphiné 2.HC
Saturday 09-giu Dauphiné 2.HC Suisse 2.HC
Sunday 10-giu Koln 1.1 Dauphiné 2.HC Suisse 2.HC
Monday 11-giu Suisse 2.HC
Tuesday 12-giu Suisse 2.HC
Wednesday13-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1
Thursday 14-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Friday 15-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Saturday 16-giu Fyen 1.1 Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Sunday 17-giu Elfstedenronde 1.1Horsens Posten 1.1 Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Monday 18-giu
Tuesday 19-giu
Wednesday20-giu Halle Ingooigem 1.1 Adriatica Ionica 2.1
Thursday 21-giu Adriatica Ionica 2.1
Friday 22-giu Adriatica Ionica 2.1
Saturday 23-giu Adriatica Ionica 2.1
Sunday 24-giu Adriatica Ionica 2.1
Monday 25-giu
Tuesday 26-giu
Wednesday27-giu
Thursday 28-giu
Friday 29-giu
Saturday 30-giu
Last edited by Coroncina2 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:20 am

July
Sunday 01-lug
Monday 02-lug
Tuesday 03-lug
Wednesday04-lug Sibiu 2.1
Thursday 05-lug Sibiu 2.1
Friday 06-lug Sibiu 2.1
Saturday 07-lug Grote prijs Jean-Pierre Monseré 1.1 France 2.UWT Sibiu 2.1
Sunday 08-lug France 2.UWT Sibiu 2.1
Monday 09-lug France 2.UWT
Tuesday 10-lug France 2.UWT
Wednesday11-lug France 2.UWT
Thursday 12-lug France 2.UWT
Friday 13-lug France 2.UWT
Saturday 14-lug France 2.UWT
Sunday 15-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Monday 16-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Tuesday 17-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Wednesday18-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Thursday 19-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Friday 20-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Saturday 21-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Sunday 22-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Monday 23-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Tuesday 24-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Wednesday25-lug Prueba Villafranca-Ordiziako 1.1 France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Thursday 26-lug Cerami 1.1 France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC
Friday 27-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC Wallonie 2.HC
Saturday 28-lug France 2.UWT Qinghai Lake 2.HC Wallonie 2.HC
Sunday 29-lug Prudential Ride London 1.UWT Rad am Ring 1.1 France 2.UWT Wallonie 2.HC
Monday 30-lug Wallonie 2.HC
Tuesday 31-lug Getxo 1.1 Burgos 2.HC Wallonie 2.HC
Last edited by Coroncina2 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:23 am

August
Wednesday 01-ago Burgos 2.HC Wallonie 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Thursday 02-ago Burgos 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Friday 03-ago Burgos 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Saturday 04-ago San Sebastian 1.UWT Dwars door het Hageland - Aarschot 1.1 Polonie 2.UWT Burgos 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Sunday 05-ago Poly Normande 1.1 Polonie 2.UWT Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Monday 06-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Tuesday 07-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Wednesday08-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Thursday 09-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1 Czech 2.1
Friday 10-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1 Czech 2.1
Saturday 11-ago Koga Slag om Norg 1.1 Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1 Czech 2.1
Sunday 12-ago Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1 Czech 2.1
Monday 13-ago Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT
Tuesday 14-ago Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT
Wednesday15-ago Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT Limousin 2.1
Thursday 16-ago Veenendaal 1.1 Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT Colorado 2.HC Limousin 2.1
Friday 17-ago Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT Colorado 2.HC Limousin 2.1
Saturday 18-ago Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT Colorado 2.HC Limousin 2.1
Sunday 19-ago Hamburg 1.UWT Binck Bank Tour 2.UWT Colorado 2.HC
Monday 20-ago
Tuesday 21-ago Stand Zottegem 1.1 Poitou 2.1
Wednesday22-ago Poitou 2.1
Thursday 23-ago Poitou 2.1
Friday 24-ago Great War Remembrance 1.1 Poitou 2.1
Saturday 25-ago Omloop Mandel-Leie-Schelde Meulebeke 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT
Sunday 26-ago Bretagne 1.UWT Vuelta 2.UWT
Monday 27-ago Vuelta 2.UWT
Tuesday 28-ago Vuelta 2.UWT
Wednesday29-ago Druivenkoers - Overijse 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT Slovaquiè 2.1
Thursday 30-ago Vuelta 2.UWT Slovaquiè 2.1
Friday 31-ago Otztaler 5500 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT Alberta 2.1Slovaquiè2.1
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:26 am

September
Saturday 01-set Brussels 1.HC Vuelta 2.UWT Alberta 2.1 Slovaquiè 2.1
Sunday 02-set Fourmies 1.HC Schaal Sels 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC Alberta 2.1 Slovaquiè 2.1
Monday 03-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC Alberta 2.1
Tuesday 04-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC
Wednesday05-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC
Thursday 06-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC
Friday 07-set Québeq 1.UWT Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC
Saturday 08-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC China I 2.1
Sunday 09-set Montréal 1.UWT Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC China I 2.1
Monday 10-set Marcel Kint 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Tuesday 11-set Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Wednesday12-set Wallonie 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Thursday 13-set Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Friday 14-set Vlaanderen 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Saturday 15-set Primus 1.HC Agostoni 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT China I 2.1
Sunday 16-set Jef Scherens 1.1Bernocchi 1.1 Isbergues 1.1 Vuelta 2.UWT
Monday 17-set China II 2.1
Tuesday 18-set China II 2.1 Toscana 2.1
Wednesday19-set Lichtervelde 1.1 China II 2.1 Toscana 2.1
Thursday 20-set Sabatini 1.1 China II 2.1 Zagreb 2.1
Friday 21-set China II 2.1 Zagreb 2.1
Saturday 22-set Marco Pantani 1.1 China II 2.1 Zagreb 2.1
Sunday 23-set Gooikse 1.1 Matteotti 1.1 Duo Normand 1.1 China II 2.1
Monday 24-set
Tuesday 25-set
Wednesday26-set
Thursday 27-set
Friday 28-set Van de Westhoek 1.1
Saturday 29-set Famenne Ardenne 1.1 Almaty 2.1
Sunday 30-set Eurométropole 1.HC Vandee 1.1 Almaty 2.1
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:34 am

October
Saturday 01-ott
Sunday 02-ott Binche - Chimay - Binche 1.1
Saturday 03-ott Munsterland 1.HC
Sunday 04-ott Paris - Bourges 1.HC
Saturday 05-ott
Sunday 06-ott Emilia 1.HC Taihu Lake 2.1
Saturday 07-ott Paris - Tours 1.HC Beghelli 1.HC Taihu Lake 2.1
Sunday 08-ott Taihu Lake 2.1
Saturday 09-ott Tre Valli 1.HC Turkey 2.UWT Taihu Lake 2.1
Sunday 10-ott Milano - Torino 1.HC Turkey 2.UWT Taihu Lake 2.1
Saturday 11-ott Gran Piemonte 1.HC Turkey 2.UWT Taihu Lake 2.1
Sunday 12-ott Turkey 2.UWT Taihu Lake 2.1
Saturday 13-ott Lombardia 1.UWT Tacx 1.1 Turkey 2.UWT Taihu Lake 2.1
Sunday 14-ott Chrono des Nations 1.1 Turkey 2.UWT
Saturday 15-ott
Sunday 16-ott Nationale Stuitingprijs - Putte - Kapellen 1.1Guangxi 2.UWT
Saturday 17-ott Guangxi 2.UWT
Sunday 18-ott Guangxi 2.UWT
Saturday 19-ott Guangxi 2.UWT
Sunday 20-ott Guangxi 2.UWT
Saturday 21-ott Japan Cup 1.HC Guangxi 2.UWT
Sunday 22-ott
Saturday 23-ott
Sunday 24-ott
Saturday 25-ott
Sunday 26-ott
Saturday 27-ott
Sunday 28-ott
Saturday 29-ott
Sunday 30-ott
Saturday 31-ott
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:08 pm

Maybe it's too early, but I think if you start out better, we'll be able to discuss finding common points on which base the 2018 calendar.
First I think we should do at least all UWT and HC race at the same date as the real ones.
Than it would be important to understand what purpose we want to follow with everything else.
Here are my suggestions:
a) a realistic calendar that follows as much as possible the actual race calendar (teams will then have to adapt and buy cyclists fit for the major races).
So in my opinion we should do only UWT and HC tours and all singol races till cat 1.1 without any fantasy race. Actually all day with a singol race penalizes the tours. Why should I play a tour for mountain riders to bet on stages if I have several races when I could make easy money as an alternative?
b) revised timetable, but that allows everyone to have a variety of races available (managers will be able to find a race that is suitable for every type of team over the course of the month).
So we should add other less important tours cat 2.1 trying to enter different types of tours than the others of major categories. Even postponing tours that actually took place before, and so it would be easier to know the tracks correctly. For exeple on Junen we have Dauphiné 2. HC and Siusse 2.HC tour for clibers and Luxembourgs tour for classics, so we can add one of others tours of cat. 2.1 but we will choose flat tour and tt tour. It could be a difficult principle to follow since first we have to determine the various types of tours and then find each month a suitable tour.
c) or a midway and a calendar that follows as much as possible the real one but with various additions to minor racing and fantasy.
It's more or less what we doing now. I think it is useful ( to avoid futile discussions) to determine when minor categories can be added. In this regard I ask a few questions:
- How many tours we can do in parallel?
- what race category can not we put a parallel tour?
- Can we postpone tours? If yes of how many days maximum?
d) a rfs historic calendar by doing just the races that have always been doing here by exactly repeating the calendar of last year.
e) a democratic calendar, making players vote about the minor races (like we do on off-season)
f) leave decisions only to one, make him choose races that more like and wait for his comfortable, risking not knowing which races will be made even at month started.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:00 pm

Finally some little time:

a) Horrible idea: Why? The fantasy one day races were introduced so that people who couldn't/didn't want ride tours could ride something too. Because if they can't, they will just stop playing.
As for hurting tours, the tours ARE already more attractive. Moneywise even a not successful Tour gives you more than a series of one day races (unless you win lots of them) I'm pretty sure it's true for every player, the highest earnings are in the months when you ride most tours. Now you want to have only real races? Tours and one day races til cat 1.1? So for example in June, if you can't or don't want to ride Adriatica Ionica you can only ride 1 day, Halle-bla bla. Then you have to make 4 days break. Actually more, since end of June there is nothing in the calender (National championships) You say every day with a fantasy one day race hurts a tour. Every day without a fantasy race hurts a real one day race. This would only be a good idea if you wanted to get rid of as many players as possible, which I don't think is your goal.
b) No, the goal is NOT to offer something for everybody so that everybody can have a perfect calendar that fits him. If that's the goal we can just go full fantasy. Parallel to the TdS (which is UWT, not 2.HC btw) next year there are 3 tours you mentioned. Ster, Slovenia and Route du Sud. If I understand b) correctly you'd want us to chose Ster as parallel tour. Since that's a completely flat tour for sprinters (might have a TT). Why? So that everybody has something? Sprinters actually have something in the TdS too normally (this year not that much if I remember correctly). Sprinters have stages in both Slovenia and Route du Sud as well. Trying to offer something for everybody by deciding that the TdS is for climbers (it isn't, it's for climbers with TT), and the putting the other tours in categories, to then decide that we ride one of a certain category... Doesn't make sense, because tours are NOT only about the GC. It's about stage wins. TT guys usually have 2 stages for them at the TdS...Why offer a TT tour in parallel? And if I understood you correctly, you then want to offer the tours that weren't ridden parallel to the TdS later. Even worse. Why give an even bigger advantage to people who want/are able to ride tours over those that can't? Why try to make everybody ride everything? Managers have to make choices. You can't ride all that fits your team, either TdS or Slovenie or Route du Sud or Ster. Not 2 or 3 of them.
c) Sounds like the most sensible thing.

- How many tours in parallel? Actually many. It's not about how many different tours, it's about how many editions overall. For 2 years in a row now we've done many tours in parallel in February. And it works, all you have to do is offer less editions. This year we had Dubai 3, Besseges 2, Valencia 2 Herald Sun 2 in parallel, and it worked. Luques doesn't seem to like it too much since there will always be people complaining that the tour they like isn't offered at the time they want... so he prefers less tours offered in more editions, so maybe just 2, but 5-4 for the same 9 editions. I think offering more tours in parallel is better. So for the June example: TdS 5 times, then (of course depending on the numbers of players we have in May) offer the 3 others at 2-2-2. Or if that's too much, it might be, just offer 2. How to decide which 2? We haven't found a perfect system for that yet, yes. But your proposal from b) is not the answer either. So far it was often either what the boss (leso and now Luques) proposed and what was designed fast or first. A better system? Don't know. Offer all that are designed in parallel is my answer. In this case. In cases involving some 2.1 tour in Asia/Africa/South America (there are exceptions) for me it's clear that the European ones come first. Because a 2.1 Tour in Japan is the same for the UCI, but just look at the starting list, it's something completely different, no GT contender will ever start in such races (and if they do, those races are the exceptions mentioned above), while they do in Europe.
- what race category can not we put a parallel tour? Don't know, don't really understand the question. I wouldn't put any 2.2 tours in parallel to anything... we want people to ride the important races, be it 1 day races or Tours, not some races for borderline professionals. And I wouldn't put it typical "Asian/African" races at 2.1 in parallel (I mean things like "Thailand" "Japan" "Korea" in your calendar posts) even if there's nothing else. In reality it's just not really alternatives.
- Can we postpone tours? If yes of how many days maximum? Yes... we can do whatever we want finally. I'm usually against postponements. Why have a rider win Suisse and Slovenia, when in reality he can't ride both? IMO we should try to avoid postponements as much as possible. For one day races and for stage races. One day races... often they are on the weekend, then there's 2,3,4 on a Sunday, nothing on Monday, Tuesday. Then ok... but let's have 2+2. Or if one is clearly the most important, 1-2-1. Or cut one, if we don't have a good design and nobody seems eager to design it. But don't go 1-1-1-1. For tours, depending what categories they are we saw we can have up to 4 in parallel with no problem. If we have a 5th one then, I would be for cutting it, instead of offering it later. Or sometimes 1-2 days later, or earlier ok. Like we usually do for Vars. But not a week or so later.
d) No. The calendar has changed every year.. it never has been exactly the same. See Ain this year, not raced, often we raced it.
e) Endless voring? No... but discussing yes, not sure why people always complain about "endless discussions" but are ok with votes where you don't know who votes for what and especially why.
f) IN the end, yes, Luques now should simply have the final say. But he shouldn't just decide on his own from the start. If we here can't agree, in the end a decision has to be taken and he is the one who has to take it. Looking at the discussion, see what arguments convince him, then do what he thinks is best. Even if it's what he wanted to do from the start.

The advantage of doing a framework for 2018 now (or in November December) would be
a) to identify the "problem spots" early. Like usually February, usually August. Seems June during the TdS too, hadn't really noticed before actually. And others too, but since the format of the calendar here right now is hard to read.....
b) After identifying the problem spots, find solutions early, that should end up fairer than if we do it every month (but of course the every month thing works too, it's not the catastrophe you make it out to be) But if now we for example decide to cut Ster during the TdS, if in August there is a similar tour like Ster, doing it month by month we might cut that one (but we might not as well), by doing the potential cutting early, we can avoid always cutting similar tours, so IF we cut Ster in June, then not cut something like STer in August.

But of course no decision should be final, framework yes, then follow it as well as possible. But we need to see the number of players too. We can assume it will be roughly the same as in 2017. If now from March to May we have many more players than we had this year, offering TdS 5, then Ster 2, Sud 2, Slovenie 2 should be no problem. On the other hand we have even less players, then TdS 4 or 5, plus only 1 other tour at 2 or 3 editions. If it is like this year, 5+2+2, or 5+2+2+2 (and include times that usually don't get races, like 8, 12,13, so for example TdS 10-15-18-21-23, the others at 8-12-16-19-22-24)

Anyway, short example of what I would propose for February:
Early FEbruary: Herald, Valencia Besseges, 3 editions each. So 9 in total.
Around the 10th: Dubai plus Colombia, South Africa and La Provence. Go for 3+2+2+2, 9 again. (Both Colombia and South Africa should get WT Teams participation from what I read) One day races like Laigueglia and Murcia get 5 editions. Or 4, depending on general number of players
14-18: Oman, Algarve, Ruta del Sol, Haut Var. 3-2-2-2, 9 editions. Or as usual put Var later..(I'm not a friend of that, but ok) Then go for 4-3-3 which is 10 editions, then later Var 4 editions (but Var being a weekend tour should stay a weekend tour..)
The Abu Dhabi, 4 or 5 editions. Nothing parallel, but Het Volk and BKB, since Het Nieuwsblad is important, maybe only 4 for Abu Dhabi. The 2 one day races on the Het N. and KBK days, ok, put them on the monday, then both on the same day. (IF they are designed)

That 's the way I would go. Whenever possible offer 5 one day races, but never less than 4, and with the numbers we have, try not to go over 10 editions for stage races per day.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by CircleCycle » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:08 pm

not entirely offtopic....
A few profiles for tours and normal races for 2018 are already published, ready to be drawn. Should there be a new thread where we publish races/tours already drawn?

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:06 pm

CircleCycle wrote:not entirely offtopic....
A few profiles for tours and normal races for 2018 are already published, ready to be drawn. Should there be a new thread where we publish races/tours already drawn?
Maybe. It can't be bad to have a pat where we can post real race design. Easier to check.

Anyway. I check a bit participation of this year as I had a bit of time :
Moyenne du nombre d'équipe selon l'heure par jour.PNG
Average teams by time per day
Moyenne du nombre d'équipe selon l'heure par jour.PNG (26.84 KiB) Viewed 7250 times
I took the average number of team by time and per day of the week.
The datas are between 01/01/2017 and 10/11/2017, wiithout the day of CNs oand WMs.
I seperate one day race and tours, it is easier to read like that.
In red it is time which seems really weak for me, orange acceptable and green good.

I think it must help to fix time. For exemple 8-12-13-17-24 seems really. Not a reason to avoid them forever, for some of these times there isn't enough of datas but it gives a bit a better vision of what have more chance to work or not.
With that, and knowing the pic of participation this year is 136 teams, I made a small table with different scenario and try to find what is the best in term of number of races and times :
Races x Times.PNG
races x times
Races x Times.PNG (5.58 KiB) Viewed 7250 times
14 or 13 races can looks a bit too much, but looks like at the same time that more there is races and more there is people in the game.
About one day race I don't know if 4 or 5 is better. 5 is better to cover all the day for people who don't ride tours but top 3 of the year in term in participation is with 4 editions ODR. But nothing say it couldn't be better with 5.
I would also like to see the 2 ODR per day more often, to see if it boost the participation too.

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:49 pm

Poke, I like your idea to use this data for the calendar.

Let's do some simple math:

1.) We define a number T of how many teams / race we agree is ideal.
2.) We calculate how many races R we need by the number of active teams A

Then the formula is: R = A / T

From you data, A = 28,970 / 313 = 92 on average.
From my experience (and also from our money rules) T = 10.
Then, it follows R = 92 / 10 ≈ 9.

Of course you can argue that the number of race R has a (positive) impact on the number of active teams A, which is definitely true. Still, I think such a rule is sensible because it is never a problem to have 12 or 15 or even more teams in a race. What is a problem is if you have less than 10 teams in a race, which is the normal case (!) currently.

So from the results, I derive a little bit different schedule:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (27.65 KiB) Viewed 7234 times
And then we can also talk about how to increase the number of active teams (other than through more races).
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Pokemon Club » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:58 am

To complete a bit :
Participation.PNG
Participation.PNG (6.04 KiB) Viewed 7227 times
Participation 2.PNG
Participation 2.PNG (13.24 KiB) Viewed 7227 times

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Pokemon Club » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:59 pm

Coroncina2 wrote:I think that could be usefull make a general table for deciding a frame work of all real season.
Actually we use to plan calendar month by month discussing each time in a few days what races do next month.
This leads to wait till few days before next month to know which race we will play in rsf. This problem does not concern the greatest races (Giro, Milano San Remo, RVV, LBL, Paris Roubaix and so on) but the contour races (Tour of Alberta, China II, Tour of Czech Republic, Giro della Toscana) that still make palmares and allow to make money to improve the team.
Know in time which race we do will help:
1) designers to organize better his time and not wait till few days from next month who draws what,
2) manager to set form in time even on less prestige race if they haven't a top team.
I'm not pretending to plan all singol day, and I don't care on what fantasy will be put on the holes of real calendar, but at least know what real races they will be doing next year.
It sure that in dicember we didn't know all UCI races. So I suggest to add on our "general table calendar" time by time we know that a race will take place.

For exaple:
January
16 - 21 Down Under

PS: could be also nice write in this Table who is working on which race, to avoid two designers doing the same thing.
May
4-27 Giro
Calendrier Route UCI 2018 - Copie.xlsx
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Calendrier Route UCI 2018 - For C4f.xlsx
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm

I greatly appreciate your work in collecting all the data on participating in the races.
Along with the real UCI calendar, would be a good starting point for planning the 2018 calendar.
We could start finding the answers to these basic questions
Coroncina2 wrote:- How many tours we can do in parallel?
- what race category can not we put a parallel tour?
- Can we postpone tours? If yes of how many days maximum?
I also like the post where to load the race tracks all next year.
But do not know for sure whether the races that design will be run or not, it is only useful for the most important races.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Coroncina2 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:30 am

Ok I start answering my questions.
1) Considering the data on participating in the 2017 races. I believe that the maximum tour in parallel should be 3. And 3 tour editions so that we can offer for each tour the chance to choose at least in the morning afternoon or evening.
2) I think we should follow the setting of the categories given by the UCI. I would exclude tour 2.2. Already taking part in the 2.1 tours we have many tours in parallel and in any case I think the offer is wide enough.
3) Follow just real calendar without exceptions about tours.
3bis) If we want propose a singol race every day could be usefull postpone realy onces as soon as there is a free next day,to avoid as much fantasy racing as possible. Btw in real cycling there are no single races every day.
So if there are too many tour exclude those with the lowest UCI category.
if we could exclude one among those with the lowest category. I propose 2 options:
1- vote like we do on winter
2- just consider the type of route and avoid propose similar tours at the same time
Let's show how it works:

No problem in January: maximum tour 3 in //
Sunday 21-gen Down Under 2.UWT Amissa Bongo 2.1 San Juan 2.1
Wednesday31-gen Herald Sun 2.1 Valenciana 2.1 Besseges 2.1


February
Thursday 08-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Friday 09-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
Saturday 10-feb Dubai 2.HC Colombia 2.1 South Africa 2.1 La Provence 2.1
2.HC stay choose which tour to delete between 3 2.1

Saturday 17-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1 Haut Var 2.1
Sunday 18-feb Oman 2.HC Algarve 2.1 Ruta de Sol 2.1 Haut Var 2.1
Monday 19-feb
Tuesday 20-feb
2.HC stay choose which tour to delete between 3 2.1
Another solution could send Haut Var (tour of 2 stages) just 2 next day with no tour.

no problem in March
no problem in April

may
Friday 11-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1 Aragon 2.1
Saturday 12-mag Giro 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1 Aragon 2.1
Sunday 13-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Dunkerque 2.HC Azerbaijan 2.1Aragon 2.1
2 2.UWT + 1 2.HC is enough so no Azerbaijan 2.1Aragon 2.1

Friday 18-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1
Saturday 19-mag Giro 2.UWT California 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1
Sunday 20-mag Giro 2.UWT Norway 2.HC Ain 2.1 Japan 2.1
2 2.UWT + 1 2.HC is enough so no Ain 2.1 Japan 2.1

Wednesday23-mag Giro 2.UWT Fjords 2.HC Belgium 2.HC Japan 2.1
Thursday 24-mag Giro 2.UWT Fjords 2.HC Belgium 2.HC Japan 2.1
No Japan will solve also this problem: 2.UWT+ 2 2.HC is ok

Friday 25-mag Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Estonia 2.1 Japan 2.1
Saturday 26-mag Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Estonia 2.1 Japan 2.1
Sunday 27-mag Giro 2.UWT Belgium 2.HC Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Japan 2.1
No japan because this can solve 2 problems before.
Choose which tour to delete between Hammer Stavanger 2.1 Estonia 2.1

Thursday 31-mag Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
June
Friday 01-giu Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Saturday 02-giu Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Sunday 03-giu Dauphiné 2.HC Luxembourg 2.HC Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1
Choose 1 tour among Peace race 2.1 Korea 2.1 Mayenne 2.1

Wednesday13-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1
Thursday 14-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Friday 15-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Saturday 16-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Sunday 17-giu Suisse 2.HC Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1
Choose 1 or 2 tour among Ster ZLM Toer 2.1 Slovenie 2.1 Route du Sud 2.1

No problem in July

August
Wednesday 01-ago Burgos 2.HC Wallonie 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
No Portugal2.1 : 3 2.HC are enough. if we can not delete it because we have many representatives of the Portuguese community, we ask them when they want to play and leave it an edition without postpone it. Another option let's postpone it in the off season ( we will have a real tour ready without need to invent a fantasy.
Saturday 04-ago Polonie 2.UWT Burgos 2.HC Denmark 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Wednesday08-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1
Friday 10-ago Polonie 2.UWT Utah 2.HC Artic Race 2.HC Portugal 2.1 Czech 2.1
No Czech 2.1: 1 2.UWT + 2 2.HC are enough

September
Sunday 02-set Vuelta 2.UWT Britain 2.HC Alberta 2.1 Slovaquiè 2.1
Choose tour between Alberta 2.1 Slovaquiè 2.1

This is my proposal. With the calendar I've proposed above you can easily copy and paste 2018 races just in a post just written (no tables that PC expert knows can do) and make your proposal.
The table that Pokemon has attached is very useful for selecting processing data that interests you (such as total racing on a day or stages on a day).
I reiterate that the point of all the speech is not imposing my calendar idea, but just look for race selection criteria before 2018 starts and know which races will be made. So maybe:
- Designers will know which races to draw and do not waste time working on a tour that will not be done.
- Players can place the form in time without having to wait for the end of month discussions.
- there would be limited controversy as to why some races are running and others are not.
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Pokemon Club » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:43 pm

for the curious
C4F Participation 30112017.xlsx
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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Pokemon Club » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:24 am

Idéfix wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:16 am
Pokemon Club wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:43 pm
for the curious

C4F Participation 30112017.xlsx

TAF DE OUF !
Tu pourras dire ça si je trouves la foi de faire ca pour la période 2012-2017 ;)

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Re: General Table Also For The Real Season

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm

See, wasn't that difficult, nice easily readable proposal.
Coroncina2 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:30 am
1) Considering the data on participating in the 2017 races. I believe that the maximum tour in parallel should be 3. And 3 tour editions so that we can offer for each tour the chance to choose at least in the morning afternoon or evening.
I see a problem here. With 3x3 editions... offer each tour to chose at least in the morning afternoon or evening? So 3 in the morning 3 in the afternoon, 3 in the evening? If I understood you correctly. 3 in the morning is 1 too many, 3 in the afternoon (until when is that for you?) might be 2 too many... 3 in the evening depending on from when to when too few. We simply can't offer something like 9-10-11-14-15-16-20-21-22. 9 editions will more likely be something like 9-10-14-16-18-20-21-22-24. So in any case not all 3 tours will be offered at all times. So it won't work the way you propose (again, if I understood that part correctly)
So a question: Why not 4 tours parallel? With less editions, for example 3-2-2-2. For example in February? Are you completely opposed to that or do you think that's possible too?
Coroncina2 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:30 am
2) I think we should follow the setting of the categories given by the UCI. I would exclude tour 2.2. Already taking part in the 2.1 tours we have many tours in parallel and in any case I think the offer is wide enough.
I would add the typical Asian 2.1. things. Stuff in Japan, Korea, Iran etc. It's just not at the same level as European 2.1. If any European Pro Continental team starts, then it's Nippo (Japanese sponsors etc.), or sometimes a few others but with their 4th strongest team or so. IMO we can ignore those 2.1. races completely at first. And only add them when there is nothing else going on.
Ah, and you haven't talked about RSF category, but I still support the better c4f categorization over the political/money UCI categorization. (They will be similar, but the small differences make c4f categorization the better choice)
Coroncina2 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:30 am
3) Follow just real calendar without exceptions about tours.
3bis) If we want propose a singol race every day could be usefull postpone realy onces as soon as there is a free next day,to avoid as much fantasy racing as possible. Btw in real cycling there are no single races every day.
So no postponements for tours? Agreed.
On one day races, partly agreed. But keep them as close to the real date as possible, so when there are 4 races on one day don't go 1+1+1+1, but go 2+2 or if one is clearly more important than the others 1+2+1. And yes, in real cycling there are no one day races every day. But this in the end is a GAME. And if we don't have single races every day we just lose even more active managers. Not everybody always has the time to play on the same times for x days in a row.
Coroncina2 wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:01 pm
- Players can place the form in time without having to wait for the end of month discussions.
That will only work if the times are known. And that IMO is to early to decide. Popularity of times sometimes fluctuates. 2 years ago (?) all of the sudden the morning became very unpopular, only 2? 3? teams inscribed for the Giro. Now the morning fortunately is back strong. But if it happens again for a time, then it's better to just offer one tour at that time for a while, if we plan 2 now, then in August the afternoon is even weaker than it is now.... not good.
Better idea: Ask Luques to generally post the PDF on the 15th. Then max 10 days, until the 25th for us to complain, propose better solutions etc. And finalize it on the 25th (or 23 or so, 20st seems a bit early, only 5 days time)
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