RSF Classics for the offseason calender

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team fl
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RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:28 pm

In this thread, you can propose or discuss RSF Classics for the offseason calender, give your thoughts about their race category etc.

For 2017/18, for now (draft 2 of the offseason calender), there are the following RSF classics included:

October

- Mosell Cup, cat. 2

November

- Preston-BB, cat. 3
- GP Brescia, cat. 3
- Lanzarote, cat. 3
- Dwaars door Caxias, cat. 2
- San Francisco, cat. 2
- Okinawa, cat. 2
- Wallis e Futuna, cat. 2

December

- GP Coimbra, cat. 3
- Kisoro-Kabale, cat. 3
- Davao, cat. 3
- Pavés de Noel, cat. 2
- Christmas Islands GP, cat. 2
- Bethlehem, cat. 2
- Tour de Herne, cat. 2
- La st. Sylv/La Mt. Sylv, cat. 2

January

- GP Luxembourg, cat. 3
- Papeete TTT, cat. 2
- Colombo, cat. 2
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:13 pm

No Papeete TTT. ITT or TTT seems to don't have lower participation than the rest

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:58 pm

Ok, Donkey slowly reacts:

Just til November for the moment:

October: - Mosell Cup, cat. 2

Bah, ok ok, seems I'll never manage to get this abomination thrown out of the calendar.

November:

- Preston-BB, cat. 3 out!
- GP Brescia, cat. 3 out!
- Lanzarote, cat. 3 Ok
- Dwaars door Caxias, cat. 2 out
- San Francisco, cat. 2 Ok
- Okinawa, cat. 2 is not fantasy, so not really in the discussion
- Wallis e Futuna, cat. 2 Ok

Explanations:
Preston Blackburn, in England, wrong season, the parcours itself is nothing special.
GP Brescia: An old classic, hardest to kick for sure, I still hope we can kick it. Main reason here: It's not the same race as it was originally anymore. Was redrawn, originally ended on a 4*, now flat. Ok, we could see if we can get the original thing, but that would probably then have an empty map, which is not perfect.
Dwaars door Caxias: A fake classic elevetad to its status last year by undemocratic decree. OUT!

Of the 3 I'm least opposed at keeping Brescia. The fake one most opposed.

So of those proposed by you I agree on
Lanzarote
San Francisco
Wallis e Futuna

For the once that didn't pass the Donkey test I propose to put the following ones in:

GP Canyon de Chelly: cat 3 Sprint, not an automatic one, but certainly possible, good to replace Preston Blackburn. Last raced 29.11.2015
Machala-Zarumilla: cat 2. hilly in the middle, flat end, a sprint likely again. But not sure again, can be classics. First ridden last year as cat 1 14.11.2016

ONe more, not sure if we actually really need more than one pavé winter classic (we have pavé de Noel) If yes, then ok, one with pavé. If not I'd go for another flat one.

And not all the ones written here do actually have to be ridden in November I think. The continental system introduced by Pokemon last year in principle made sense, as long as it doesn't become the main factor to put in a race or not. Exceptions are possible.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:28 pm

- GP Coimbra, cat. 3
- Kisoro-Kabale, cat. 3
- Davao, cat. 3
- Pavés de Noel, cat. 2
- Christmas Islands GP, cat. 2
- Bethlehem, cat. 2
- Tour de Herne, cat. 2
- La st. Sylv/La Mt. Sylv, cat. 2
Coimbra: Portugal, december... if we keep it move it to November! And a bit short, ok enough profile, but cat 2 enough.
Kisoro-Kabale: Don't really see the point of this one, ok I'm biased, a RKL race, can't stand the guy, but cut seems ok. Or cat 2, not deserving of cat 3
Davao: Another race by this idiot, plus one of the fake classics from last year. CUT!

The others seem kind of fix anyway, Noel with changing parcours, could be category 3 even.
Betlehem the "christmas tree" (Although I would actually prefer the pure complete absolute fantasy christmas tree lesossies had in the early days of RSF.)
Herne ok, but I propose we demand that both leso and Buhmann have to participate
The Sylvester double ok too I guess.
Here a comment, since we have horrible Mosell as pavé (although it really isn't that much pavé) and possibly Noel at cat 3, Herne with some pavé too, Sachsen and Pavétour as tours with pavé, I really don't see the need for another pavé classic like the one FL proposed for November. See my last post, so another reason to cut that fake classic!

- GP Luxembourg, cat. 3
- Papeete TTT, cat. 2
- Colombo, cat. 2

It's Letzebuerg, not Luxembourg.
I'm for cutting it, I expect to have no chance with it. So ok, keep it. :D (Cutting the same reasons as for the other Euro cutting ones I propose. Weather, not the original track, but ok even if I had the sole decision power I'm not sure I would cut it.... would be fighting with myself, Big vs Donkey. Fight of the century! (or maybe fight of the hour))
Papeete ok.
Colombo ok

So overall I disagree with FL on 6 classics (edit, seems 5 really), proposed only 2 new ones, will propose more in the coming days: And try to bring some order to my proposal in general....
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:06 pm

As Roby has been the only one with a serious comment here so far, this is the current edition:

October

- Mosell Cup, cat. 2

November

- GP Canyon de Chelly, cat. 3 (instead of Preston BB)
- GP Brescia, cat. 3
- Lanzarote, cat. 3
- Pavé race, cat. 2 (instead of Dwaars door Caxias as I got the pure fantasy argument)
- San Francisco, cat. 2
- Okinawa, cat. 2
- Villalba GP, cat. 2
- GP Coimbra, cat. 2

December

- Kisoro-Kabale, cat. 3
- Wallis e Futuna, cat. 3 (instead of Davao)
- Pavés de Noel, cat. 2
- Christmas Islands GP, cat. 2
- Bethlehem, cat. 2
- Tour de Herne, cat. 2
- La st. Sylv/La Mt. Sylv, cat. 2

January

- GP Letzebuerg, cat. 3
- Papeete TTT, cat. 2
- Colombo, cat. 2
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by High Flyer » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Maybe Japan Criteruem (21st October) or Le Tour De France Saitama Criterium 4th November. or Japan Cup course 22nd October.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:51 am

High Flyer wrote:Maybe Japan Criteruem (21st October) or Le Tour De France Saitama Criterium 4th November. or Japan Cup course 22nd October.
Thanks for the Input. I think October should be no Problem. Luques will have to fill in the empty space with races anyway. But as RKL has already pointed out: There is no big Need for further RSF classics in October as there are enough real ones already. And as you can see in the latest draft and in the PDF for October in the Calender Coordination section, Japan Cup is already in. Le Tour De France Saitama Criterium also does not sound too bad. Have we ridden that already before? (That's kind of criteria for an RSF classic race, cat. 1 should be no problem though)

But have a look at sprint races that have been ridden the years before in the offseason, esp. the ones you really liked. It's still enough time for suggestions.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by High Flyer » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:25 pm

Races with C4F race date that I quite liked:
Yamaniguey - La Maquina 21/12/16
Nakete -Kylea 5/12/16
La St Syla (2016 New Years Eve race)
vuelta a buenos Sires 10/11/16
istanbul cycle classwic 1/11/16
Catamarca Criterium 14/12/15
karratha Sprint Classic 15/12/15
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Novo Banco - PT » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:19 pm

Take any of my classics if you want, I think the last race, GP Ecuador could be a good training for the Andes

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:04 pm

From the new (well, not anymore, but newest) FL list:

Donks opposes Villalba. For his usual reasons, the anti democratic way it was made a "classic". But he has to admit, he likes the parcours, fully supports riding it as cat 1! (And then up to cat 2 etc.)
Donks opposes Pavé race cat 2 as well. If you want another pavé classic, then say which :D
Then Mt Sylvestre... past years we had Catania Etna, I don't really care which actually, very similar.

Classification of the races in the list (classification might be wrong, just what I think when I see it). Without Okinawa since that's a real race.

Easy sprint: St Sylvestre
Possible sprint: Chelly, Coimbra
Hilly: Brescia, Lanzarote, San Francisco classic, Wallis et Futuna, Kisoro Kabale, Christmas Island GP, Betlehem, Letzebuerg, Colombo-Ag....
Mountain: Villalba, Mt Sylvestre
Pavé: Mosell (kind of, but not really), pavé race cat 2, Pavé de Noel, Herne
TT
TTT: Papeete

So, lots of hilly stuff, which is ok. Maybe we're a bit heavy on similar ones, but since nobody seems to have better proposals, that will ahve to do.
4 pavé if we count Herne and Mosell as pavé, seems a lot. But ok
2 mountains, seems ok.
2 possible sprints, but not sure.
1 sure sprint.
Not enough sprints, definetly. Especially since Coimbra with a 5 in it risks not really being a sprint.

Good we have High Flyer!!!
But IMO he overdoes it a bit with the easy sprints, but let's go through his proposals:

Yamaniguey - La Maquina 21/12/16 Another hilly one, but last hill shortly before the goal, many of those we have are further away, so I'm pro this one.
Nakete -Kylea 5/12/16: Easy sprint, downhill, makes it a bit harder to calculate, good. Pro this one too.
La St Syla (2016 New Years Eve race): See avobe, in anyway
vuelta a buenos Sires 10/11/16: Completely absolutely flat, don't see the interest in this one. Anti!
istanbul cycle classwic 1/11/16 Mmh, rather anti.
Catamarca Criterium 14/12/15 Hilly, IMO too similar to many we already have, Wallis et Futuna for example
karratha Sprint Classic 15/12/15 Again, seems toooo easy..

So support 2 of those (if we have to many hillies I might support this one over one of the established ones too.
But yeah, we still need more for sprint, 2 sure ones, 2 possible ones... another 1-2 would seem nice (if we still have enough spots)

Anyway, more proposals would probably be welcome by FL. And more comments on the proposals so far too.

I'll propose one myself:
Hidden Valley - Lae: Last race 12/12-15 (yep, clicked on it looking at High's proposals) possible sprint, to me seems a very likely sprint, but in 2 editions flat riders won it seems (or maybe 60-80)
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by CircleCycle » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:21 am

GP Pattaya (pure flat, donkey won't like)
SAC Cape Town Classic
Sarkoy GP

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:53 pm

New draft will follow on Monday most likely. Pretty busy at the moment (besides all the lazyness...)
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by luques » Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:04 pm

I want Brescia, never like too much Lanzarote.

Was thinking that maybe it's possible to add a classic on the path of December Tour, so real explanations, real context and photos and so on. Will see if I have the time to do it or to explain it better.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:56 am

Nothing happening here, so I just make a little update, FL or others feel free to make a better one.

The 18 races mentioned in the last FL seem fix, nobody objecting really, Luques a bit for Lanzarote it seems, but don't know how strong, just a downgrade to cat 2 or he'd like it cut or keep it?
And the "pavé race" is rather unclear at this point. Donkey of course is rather objecting to using fake classics from last year as classics...

Then Yamaniguey - La Maquina and Nakete -Kylea have received 2 nominations, so they would seem to be in as well. Btw others should comment on other proposals too, not just me.
And to make CircleCycle happy I support GP Pattaya as well! Which makes it 21, which is around the number needed. More nominations, second opinions on already done nominations still welcome too of course.

And what did Luques mean exactly in his last post with the proposal?

Looking at geography it would make sense to go:

November:

Europe:
Brescia
Coimbra
Lanzarote

North and Central America:

Chelly
San Francisco
Villalba

Possibly pavé classic doesn't matter where it is. Which would be 6-7 classics. IMO 7 needed, rather 8 actually, January after all will not have many of the winter classics. So add one of the others in the FL post in some other location too either between the 2 continents or after.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 am

Of course it's allowed and even encouraged to write proposition for the 2018/2019 winter classics already now here too. After all when September/October 18 comes around we'll all mostly have forgotten what races where cool/uncool.

Races that you think don't need to stay "RSF classics"
Races that you think should become "RSF classics"
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Hunsrueck » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:04 am
Of course it's allowed and even encouraged to write proposition for the 2018/2019 winter classics already now here too. After all when September/October 18 comes around we'll all mostly have forgotten what races where cool/uncool.

Races that you think don't need to stay "RSF classics"
Races that you think should become "RSF classics"
Since 2012 the race San Benito - Matagalpa was in the decenber calender. the calenderking from last year put it out. Why?
Can we have this race for classic back?

Greetz Huns

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:30 pm

Donkey didn't get to ride many 1 day races, so not much to propose, but so far the one I really liked and would like to propose for next winter:

Napier Bluff Hill Circuit, ridden 22.01.2018. Interesting profile and the race I was in was good too!

Propose to cut:
- Mosell Cup: As usual, I propose that cut every year.... Don't think I'll be successful this time either
- GP Pattaya: Finish with -1, for a sprint race don't like that too much. Plus the track wasn't complete, so on the map it showed that ugly spike you get in those cases!

Might have other proposals later (probably more for cutting than for adding)
Hunsrueck wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 pm
Since 2012 the race San Benito - Matagalpa was in the decenber calender. the calenderking from last year put it out. Why?
Can we have this race for classic back?

Greetz Huns
The first question is difficult, since the calendarking from 2016/17 has decided he is above answering questions about his decisions.
Second one possible, possible for 2018/19 winter. Depends on what else is proposed, by how many people etc.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:17 pm

RSF Classics for the offseason calender 2018

Nominate races for the offseason calender as RSF/C4F Classics! They have to be ridden at least once in the game's history!

The following number is needed:

October (2)
- Mosell Cup, cat. 2
- ..., cat. 2

November (5)
- ..., cat. 3
- ..., cat. 3
- ..., cat. 2
- ..., cat. 2
- ..., cat. 2

December (4)

- ..., cat. 3
- ..., cat. 3
- ..., cat. 2
- ..., cat. 2

(The races around Christmas and Sylvester are set).

January (2)
- GP Letzebuerg, cat. 3
- ..., cat. 2
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:30 am

Any suggestions?
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:57 pm

I feel insulted by the fact that Mosell is one of the 2 that seems fix. Grrr. I demand the right to demand its removal as usual.
Seriously, it's a shit race!

Lazy Donks then for the moment just asks questions:

Correct that we have another decrease compared to 2017? Just impression maybe wrong (or because the sure once are not included) If yes, I think a few more would be ok. Mainly in November and another 1 or 2 in January, yes, from the middle of the month the real season starts, but till then another 1 at least seems fine. Especially if Luques finds the time to implement the "money per category" change, as he seems eager to do, but doesn't find the time. For those that don't ride the cat 2 January tour, nice to get a classic with slighly more money. On the other hand in October 2 are not really needed, 0 would be perfectly fine. Which would mean Mosell out too, ha!

System change? No more the ones that were in are in but can be kicked if requested, now all have to be proposed? (question, not criticism) I'll get to proposing soon in any case.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:49 pm

Well, did not ride too many one-day races and hopefully can continue to focus on tours this winter, but for fun I nominate:
GP Coimbra
GP Brescia
Napier Bluff Hill Circuit
Yamaniguey - La Maquina
Rund um Arnsberg

On top, I like the earlier idea of Luques, to have a competition for a RSF Winter Classic:
luques wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:04 pm
Was thinking that maybe it's possible to add a classic on the path of December Tour, so real explanations, real context and photos and so on. Will see if I have the time to do it or to explain it better.
Well, a classic has to establish itself by being ridden many times and having a nice profile. But maybe it can establish itself through winning a competition? My idea is, we make a design competition with some rules, e.g. min. 200km race and race has to be in a climate where it can be raced in Winter. Maybe some additional rules. Then, the winning classic will get a high category (3?) and guaranteed an appearance for the next 3 years. After 3 years, have to decide whether people still love the race or it drops out of calendar. Just an idea, maybe to crazy for just a one day race?
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:23 am

I take on Roby's and Gipfelstuermer's posts together:
I feel insulted by the fact that Mosell is one of the 2 that seems fix. Grrr. I demand the right to demand its removal as usual.
Seriously, it's a shit race!
For sure you have the right to demand it. As everybody has. That's why this thread is open :).
Correct that we have another decrease compared to 2017? Just impression maybe wrong (or because the sure once are not included) If yes, I think a few more would be ok. Mainly in November and another 1 or 2 in January, yes, from the middle of the month the real season starts, but till then another 1 at least seems fine. Especially if Luques finds the time to implement the "money per category" change, as he seems eager to do, but doesn't find the time. For those that don't ride the cat 2 January tour, nice to get a classic with slighly more money. On the other hand in October 2 are not really needed, 0 would be perfectly fine. Which would mean Mosell out too, ha!
I will have a look at the overall number from the last years and adapt the calender accordingly. More interesting one day races are nothing bad I guess. And yes, to that money per category change. That sounds good to me too.
System change? No more the ones that were in are in but can be kicked if requested, now all have to be proposed? (question, not criticism) I'll get to proposing soon in any case.
Didn't really think about it to be honest. I just wanted it to be as much inclusive as possible for the community. Hence, no suggestions/fixtures from me. But if a proposal is needed, I will do one, no problem.
Well, did not ride too many one-day races and hopefully can continue to focus on tours this winter, but for fun I nominate:
GP Coimbra
GP Brescia
Napier Bluff Hill Circuit
Yamaniguey - La Maquina
Rund um Arnsberg
And here are some proposals :). I'll have a look.
On top, I like the earlier idea of Luques, to have a competition for a RSF Winter Classic:
That sounds nice, but can we get it running nicely with enough participation? Again, more opinions needed. Rules for such a competition may still be in discussion afterwards.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:48 am

What I just realized on RSF Winter Classics: Shouldn't we introduce a rule, that they have to be located in locations with decent cycling weather in winter? That does contradict some of my nominees, but in fact does not make too much sense to have a winter classic in Europe, does it? Well, maybe Algarve or Sicily or Canarias makes sense, but most of Europe does not.
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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:27 am

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:48 am
What I just realized on RSF Winter Classics: Shouldn't we introduce a rule, that they have to be located in locations with decent cycling weather in winter? That does contradict some of my nominees, but in fact does not make too much sense to have a winter classic in Europe, does it? Well, maybe Algarve or Sicily or Canarias makes sense, but most of Europe does not.
I think that is even mentioned somewere in the depth of this thread or another place in the forum ;).
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: RSF Classics for the offseason calender

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:09 pm

Yes yes, Mosell unrideable.
And was going to mention that this Arnsberg seems optimistic somehow.. yes, we could ride it in late October, early November... but....
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