Suggestion for the offseason calendar

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:23 am

Hainan, Costa Rica Singakak and co can just go out. All these exotics tours are not really interesting. We can stop all real races with Guangxi and go full fantasy until Tour Down Under. And no reason to put another tours in parallel of Pave Tours, to have time cut or really low participation. And launch a contest for pave tour.

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by kunske » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:01 am

you cn cut those tours but if there come back some flat tours is ok. So sprintteams also have fun in the winter

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:32 pm

3 x 8-10 days of flats tours looks boring. After if it is a minimum hilly why not don't know profils anyway to talk like that

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:35 am

I will have a look at it again. After all, it's just a draft :)

But I really don't understand your last sentence, Pokemon ;).

And I don't understand the argument in this:
Hainan, Costa Rica Singakak and co can just go out. All these exotics tours are not really interesting. We can stop all real races with Guangxi and go full fantasy until Tour Down Under. And no reason to put another tours in parallel of Pave Tours, to have time cut or really low participation. And launch a contest for pave tour.
At least it's real tours. Maybe they are boring to you, but as long as there is decent information available... If it's not, it's another story.

And why exactly is a fantasy tour more exciting than a real life tour as long as the information is availabe?

Btw. why don't you launch a contest for the pavé tour?
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:33 pm

Latest version (3):

- Malysia out, enough interesting one day races that week. Hainan stays in, Tour des Pavés too... In general, it's not four tours each month with only one parallel tour (Hainan/TdP, CdlA/xxx, DecT/xxx, JanT/xxx).

- The 2.2 Asian races out, same for Costa Rica as the overlap with the DecT is a valid argument, thanks Gipfelstuermer. Instead, place holder for a small tour

- January got Napier Bluff, as in this week, there is only the Januaray Tour.

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:01 pm

team fl wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:35 am
I will have a look at it again. After all, it's just a draft :)

But I really don't understand your last sentence, Pokemon ;).

And I don't understand the argument in this:
Hainan, Costa Rica Singakak and co can just go out. All these exotics tours are not really interesting. We can stop all real races with Guangxi and go full fantasy until Tour Down Under. And no reason to put another tours in parallel of Pave Tours, to have time cut or really low participation. And launch a contest for pave tour.
At least it's real tours. Maybe they are boring to you, but as long as there is decent information available... If it's not, it's another story.

And why exactly is a fantasy tour more exciting than a real life tour as long as the information is availabe?

Btw. why don't you launch a contest for the pavé tour?
My problem isn't that it isn't really fantasy vs real tours. Just that the real tours during winters are boring and long.

For Hainan vs Pave Tours it is different. We will have 4-5 team / tours at the best in this configuration. If it is to have that better to have Pave tour after Andes.

And not at me to launch a compet or not

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:01 pm

Andes: Why start the third? For most of it's history (at least the one we can access ingame, but I think before that too) the Andes started later. Second weekend, once even third. Why on the first weekend now?`

Having it later IMO has 2 big advantages.
1) I like it better
2) We can have a better visited small Portugal tour end of October early November. From the 29th 5 days or 7 days, fits nicely. If we don't have it there, it will most likely be a bit late, yes, probably you can cycle in Portugal in December, but if the design included the Torre maybe better not, earlier better, here would seem a perfect spot.
3) Seems easier to program this here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3736&start=25#p76823
Wanted that in last year too. I think such nice presentation deserves to be programmed regardless of the quality of the race. And actually the race itself promises to be rather interesting too (Even if I'm not a fan of such a late TTT.. .grrr. ) And since here we have both excellent presentation (panoramio off unfortunately) and promising parcours, I'd like to program that not as no 2 to Andes or Dec tour, but at a time where everybody is available. So if Portugal is for example 29-2/3/4, then this NOrth Iraq can easily be ridden 5-9. Can be done after the Andes too, yes, but weather wise I think early November might be better than late November, it says north Iraq after all... The spot 21-25 would work too though. Now checked the temperature in Kirkuk and Qara Dagh for November, still seems ok, but earlier a few degrees warmer. Plus see no 2, to not restrict Portugal to 5 days, but make it possible to have 6 or 7, North Iraq would fit in nicely here.

3 reasons, only 2 important. Actually only 1 after all, no 3 late weather wise seems still ok.

Generally don't really want to decide which tours will be ridden now. But IMO Portugal a special case because we cut the real Tour of Portugal this year, as a little make up present. Somebody who meets a designing portuguese tell them to get working!
And North Iraq just because it's nice and unused for years.
For the rest think that the tours to be ridden should then be chosen rather "short term", meaning in the preceding month. So go design short fantasy winter tours everybody!

Then: Andes parallel a 7 day tour...
+ Like it, no Andes only 1 alternative, don't make the parallel program too seducing
- No time for 16 days... maybe putting a long 7 day one parallel not ideal either.
Maybe a 4 + a 3 day tour better?

More at another time.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:20 pm

It's another time already!

2 years ago Pokemon introduced "regional blocks". So instead of jumping from continent to continent every day, we had blocks of races on the same continent for 2 weeks or so. A good idea I thought. Something that I'd like to continue, unless people think it's stupid. In case they don't, can you (FL) make some nice blocks? Just write the name of the region in the race 3 column when it starts or so.
The regions included should be:
- Southern Europe (clearly at the start, end of October early November)
- Southern North America (Southern US, Mexico (according to a mexican friend it's north America, he usually threatens violence when somebody says it's in Central America), central America and the carribean.
- Southern Asia
- Africa
- Oceania
- South America

The order was the one in which FL organized the classics basically, but doesn't have to be that (South America seems to have none, so put it at the end). Length doesn't have to be the same for all regions either. And of course in the end will turn out to be a guideline, not a fix unbreakable rule, if there's not enough races of a kind in a place, we'll move somewhere else at times.. Could go for 1 week blocks too, no problem, if that's better, more times for fantasy winter designers to fill up the vault before the next block...
Why put it in?
1) Donkey lazyness, then he doesn't have to think that much when putting races in. Just check here.
2) Motivation for designers, they see what region comes when, they can design what's needed in advance. Becaue while there were still enough races last year, we are kind of running out in some places for winter...
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Coroncina2 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am

Maybe only to me seem there are less and less players.
I would use off season to think new things to improve the game.
You could also continue as all go well and wait when there will be 2 3 team \ group ;)
Regions and have riders with super top record of wins vs almost all noobs is far better important. :D
Mens sana in corpore sano

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Wrong thread AND completely idiotic comment.
Coroncina2 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am
Maybe only to me seem there are less and less players.
Maybe not. Maybe if your READ the forum from time to time you would see that it seems everybody realizes that. You probably are the LAST person to realize it.
Coroncina2 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am
I would use off season to think new things to improve the game.
Then do it.... although your improvements usually are "don't give free points to teams any more, it's anti multi". Perfect policy to get more players, yes. Anyway, what does it have to do with the offseason calendar. Riding a race and thinking are not mutually exclusive, not even for you.
Coroncina2 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am
You could also continue as all go well and wait when there will be 2 3 team \ group ;)
Yes, sure. Like you could continue to pat yourself on the shoulder and propose to stop giving free race points so we don't have multis :roll:
Coroncina2 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:43 am
Regions and have riders with super top record of wins vs almost all noobs is far better important. :D

Pointless comment, insulting, untrue. Like your whole post. Like the great majority of what you write.

POINTLESS
INSULTING
UNTRUE

And at least try to be on topic when you post somewhere.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:52 am

I updated the offseason calender and will post the most current draft soon. What I haven't done yet is the regional blocking. I have to look at the races in detail first, geographically :).

Anyway, even before posting the draft, I put Andes one week later from 10 November and tried to fit in the Volta a Portugal from 29 October to 4 November and a five day tour (North Iraq) from 5 to 9 November. This makes the calender a bit more croweded, but it's for sure a joy for stage race contestants and for Hainan haters ;).
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:23 pm

29-4 and 5-9 then 10 Andes is a bit veeery crowded. A day break somewhere would be nice. Why not 28-2, 4-8? 6 days Portugal seems enough.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:23 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:23 pm
29-4 and 5-9 then 10 Andes is a bit veeery crowded. A day break somewhere would be nice. Why not 28-2, 4-8? 6 days Portugal seems enough.
Could work out. Will do.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:05 pm

Latest version:

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by luques » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:58 pm

A bit of modification for November, remember that there should be NC that are held 3 times per year. If possible on a Weekend, maybe moving Tour of Iraq?

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by olmania » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:03 pm

And btw, I designed again Tour de Bourgogne this year.
3 days tour that was happening in offseason several times a few years ago. If you want it back, feel free to use it :)

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:21 pm

what about the program of the small tours so ? There is a short least ? I guess some are aleady draw but never ride

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:53 pm

What about having only races for free for winter ? At least for one day race ?

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by High Flyer » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:02 pm

NC'S on the 26th since its the only free day left?
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by luques » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:53 pm

High Flyer wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:02 pm
NC'S on the 26th since its the only free day left?
2nd of December, first Sunday available.
Last time I did it on a weekday got my share of insults ;)

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:01 pm

Since FL is lazy I do some posting here, but no excellent excel files.

The main tours for the offseason:

Pavé: cat 2, 5 days, most likely start 28th or 29th October. Design a mystery, last year a competition, again? Or something else? I'm rather opposed to use old stages and mix... but a complete fantasy thing like it was most of the time wouldn't bother me (so much for my principles, usually that bothers me)

Andes: cat 3, mountain tour. 16-16-17-17-16 days in the last 5 years.. so I guess the same? (Although IMO the shorter the better)... End on the 24th of November seems logic

December tour: cat 3, 10-14 days, winner of December Tour competition. Between the 2nd and 15th seems logic (mostly we've had it early, could be one week later, but early as usual seems ok)
Christmat tour. cat 1 3-4 days, some peace message usually, designing mysterious. Start the 27th Dec most likely, the 26th is usually reserved for the jubilee race Herne, since the game started on a 26th of December (I think)

January Tour: cat 2, 11 days, second placed of December tour competition. Early January so to finish before Down Under starts. Down Under 2020 seems to be from the 21st, so not too tight this year. 7-17th (to avoid double weekend) a possibility. 9-19 with double weekend but another short tour before that instead of parallel another possibilty.


In addition of course there will be shorter tours. 3 to 6 days. Exact number and length IMO doesn't need to be decided yet, rought preview or proposal:
November 3: 1 before the Andes, 1 during, 1 after.
December 1-2: Last year we had nothing parallel to the Dec tour, hoping to have bigger participation there, do that again? Or have something parallel? 1 after seems sure though
January: 0-1: 1 Since the schedule is not as tight this year as it was in the last few years, an extra tour before or parallel to the January tour seems ok.



THe vault for offseason fantasy tours is basically empty... so needs designing. No guarantee that a tour will be chosen, but chances are there for sure. And if we get 20 tours designed, the number of tours offered might increase slightly... Maybe 2 tours parallel with fewer editions? Shorter tours probably with bigger chances than 6 day tours. So number above not fix, just a proposal, and length etc plays a role, short tours=more tours offered most likely.

What is needed: Non-specialized tours. To explain a bit: A classic tour, with 5 days for classics will have much smaller chances to be chosen that a classic tour with 3 stages for classics and 2 sprints. A climbers tour with 3 days climbing will have close to 0 chances to get chosen, one with a day for climbers (and GC) one for sprint, one classics will have much much bigger chances. Same with sprint, 4 days sprinting, unlikely to be chosen.
The one exception might be the parallel tour to the Andes, there a tour for sprinters, 4 sprint stages, or 4 sprint stages and a short TT (to give both sprinters and TT guys a chance) or sprints with one classic day (classics GC but nothing else) would have good chances. Something for climbers much less.


One day races: Here as well the vault has been fuller in the past....
Classics/races with cat 2 or 3. A race that's raced for the first time won't get more than cat 1. But new off season classics of course are welcome, post proposals from races raced in the past in the thread for off season classics: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5342

Last year we had:

03.11. GP Brescia cat 3 hilly
04.11. GP de Lanzarote cat 3 hilly
10.11. GP Coimbra cat 2 circuit, soft hills, max 5, sprint possible
14.11. San Benito Matagalpa cat 2 climbers, rather soft approach, 5 9 end
18.11 San Francisco classic cat 2 hilly
23.11 GP Canyon de Chelly cat 2 flat with late sieb 20 km from the end possible
25.11. Villalba GP cat 2 climbers
28.11. Yamaniguey - La Maquita cat 2 hilly

8 in November, should roughly stay the same, slight increase possible. European ones early, but new ones will have trouble getting in I think, in doubt (same amount of proposals) others join.

09.12. Colombo - Agampodigana cat 2 hilly
12.12. GP Pattaya cat 2 flat
19.12. Kisoro-Kabale cat 3 hilly
20.12. Makete - Kylea cat 2 flat
23.12. Pavés de Noël, cat 3, changing race, new route every year.
24.12. Christmas Island GP cat 2 hilly
25.12. GP Bet Lehem Nazareth cat 2 hilly
26.12.Tour de Herne cat 2 light pavé, light hills
31.12. Catania-Etna cat 2 mountain
31.12. La Saint Sylvestre cat 2 flat

10 in dec, but 6 of them are christmas stuff, that is there because it's there IMO, I think 1-2 more would be ok earlier in the month. Low number for Asia (2 or 3 with the christmas stuff)) and Africa (2), an increase there wouldn't be completely wrong. But no need to increase it just because of that, but again, in doubt proposals from those 2 continents would be in before more North/Central American/Carribean stuff.

January:

01.01. GP Letztebuerg cat 3 hilly
03.01. Napier Bluff Hill Circuit, cat 2, hilly
06.01. Boucles de Wallis et Futuna, cat 3, hilly, sprint possible
09.01. GP de Papeete cat 2 TTT

Only 4, but this year the real season starts later, so another 1-2 would be ok. Nothing from South America with cat 2 it seems, races from there so probably with good chances...

Most likely these races will stay (those that indeed stay) more or less in the same place they were last year, unless there's a big change in the continent rotation we've had in the last 3 or so seasons. Southern Europe-North/Central America/Asia/Africa/Oceania/South America it was (more or less, some mixing of Asian races in the NC America stuff)...

Anyway, proposals etc welcome, somebody with time and a nice excel(lent) sheet too!

The proposals for the classics in the other thread though.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5342

Will post the list there too.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Ah, FL just sent me a very nicely coded message in the calendar coordination October thread.
After employing my most intelligent riders and former riders to decipher it, I have to admit that I agree with his point.

1 day offseason classics should not be on weekends or at least not too many, since the weekends have rather weak participation.
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by team fl » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:11 pm

First draft:

Image

So three new spots for RSF Classics, nominate!
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:00 pm

I hate this FL....

Last year he omitted Mosell from his preview, so I happily left it out, since I counted that as sort of a vote...
Now you re-add it? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Won't count it as a vote!!! Go to the Classic thread for that!
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Re: Suggestion for the offseason calendar

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:02 pm

team fl wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:11 pm
First draft:

Image

So three new spots for RSF Classics, nominate!
I just see it butwhy you put the Dec Tour so long ?

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