Justice for Kuurne!

[Falcor CC]

I've been focusing on the categorisation of classics lately. To my big surprise, Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne is only a cat 3. Apparently, the foreign perception is on it is a little lower, but here in Belgium I think everyone would agree it should at least be a cat 4.
I don't really have too many arguments to back it up, so below I will just list some races that I feel offended by because they are given a higher category as KBK:

-Milano Torino (cat 4). I had never heard of this race before I started playing rsf.
-Ronde van Brugge (cat 4). Since it got downgraded to a one day race, it should be put on the same level as KBK at best.
-Scheldeprijs (cat 4). 100% a smaller race in Belgium.
-Eschborn-Frankfurt (cat 4). See Torino argument.
-Cyclassics (cat 5!!!). Wtf?? See Torino argument.
-Bretagne classic (cat 4). Definitely not a bigger race than KBK.
-The 3 Italian cat 4s in October. Combination of above arguments.

My proposal: Bump KBK up to cat 4, give it the recognition it deserves. Bump down Cyclassics to cat 4 while we're at it.

Thank you for your time and discussion.

[Robyklebt]

Flèche to cat 6, Flanders to cat 5, Omloop cat 3. KBK to cat 2. Sounds about right.

[Nomorelulz]

Just because you don't know these races, doesn't mean they are not important

[Falcor CC]

Just because you don't know these races, doesn't mean they are not important

Must be the German UCI calendar and not the real one!

[Robyklebt]

Less danger of me going on an anti-RVV rant here, so more serious answer.

Kuurne is perfectly fine as cat 3

-Milano Torino (cat 4). I had never heard of this race before I started playing rsf.
-Ronde van Brugge (cat 4). Since it got downgraded to a one day race, it should be put on the same level as KBK at best.
-Scheldeprijs (cat 4). 100% a smaller race in Belgium.
-Eschborn-Frankfurt (cat 4). See Torino argument.
-Cyclassics (cat 5!!!). Wtf?? See Torino argument.
-Bretagne classic (cat 4). Definitely not a bigger race than KBK.
-The 3 Italian cat 4s in October. Combination of above arguments.

Saying you never heard of some races doesn't really help your argument.

Opening weekend!!!! Yes.. marketing! Imagine the organizer decides to shift Omloop to a later date, like the week before the main event, to increase its importance. Only Kuurne left at its date. What happens? Yes, exactly, only half of the WT teams even bother show up. The event is Omloop. Kuurne is just the race the day after, basically a parasite of Omloop.

Your strongest argument is Ronde van Brugge, yes, that probably would be better off as cat 3

Reason it is cat 4 is the UCI World Tour. Historically we don't follow the UCI classification, we used to base it on a long gone site by a dutch cycling fan, took his classification, then while of course influenced (heavily) by the UCI, we still did our own classification.

For one day races basically like this:

- Monuments=cat 6
- World Tour races + Paris Tours cat 5 (at the time still was World Tour anyway, we just (rightly) kept it at 5)
- Later additions to the world tour (where WT teams are not even obliged to start) and some but not all HC races, originally mostly based on that site = cat 4


New WT races like the Canadian ones started at cat 2 even here (IMO too harsh in retrospect) then got to 3, 4, stayed there long, now 5, like other "real" WT races like Hamburg...So in the end we mostly follow the UCI there.

The newest WT races, the ones that teams are not obliged to start, that were added for no specific reason, organizers didn't even apply in some cases, we generally went to cat 4. But not all, Cadel Evans is still cat 3, rightly so, could also be cat 2 really, no prestige at all, starting list is unimpressive. But cat 3 fits too, why not. Newest addition, Copenhagen sprint, started at cat 3 too. It's part of the "World Tour but no obligation to start for WT Teams" thing too, that will somehow change a bit next year I think? Ronde van Brugge, we circle back to that one now, yes, then became 4 directly, possibly my fault even, agree that would have been better of starting at 3, and possibly staying. Reason is that it took over from the 3 stage race, that was established as a RVV prep, cat 3 here I guess, which is sort of kind of similar to cat 4 for one day races, then became this "fake WT", so 4. But agree that it would have been better and still would be better as 3

Other races you mentioned: Frankfurt used to be THE german classic. Yes, you can laugh, it isn't worth much, but actually established itself in the international calender as Henninger Turm. Now as Eschborn-Frankfurt with rather weak starting lists...yes, it really is cat 3. But as a somehow slightly historic race, respect of its not too bad history, and to keep the hordes of Germans we have here calm, cat 4 to me seems quite ok. Even if now, in 2026 despite its WT label it really isn't worth much. But more than Cadel Evans who should stay at 3.

Bretagne and Hamburg (both 5, Bretagne isn't 4 as you mistakenly write) but also Québec and Montréal as 5 are of course high. That's the "real World Tour" influence. Down to 4, would be more than ok. They really don't have much prestige, due to the obligation to start the starting field is usually ok, but at the same time few teams bring their A team, or even B. I would support a downgrading to cat 4, but keeping them at cat 5 keeps things simple, then in that case we just follow the UCI, we don't need to discuss and have the odd guy who is convinced that one of these races really is important and should stay at cat 5...

Schelde: Hm, you say nobody cares, cyclists still do. Its winner list is still pretty impressive. It's sort of a sprinters championships in a period when they don't really have much else anymore. Some do Roubaix, they might or might not start here as "prep" (using the legs in a race as opposed to only training, not for the pavé, Itzulia parallel is nothing for sprinters. One of the races that has been 1.HC for the UCI for ages, cat 4 for us... could it be cat 3... yes, but think it's not wrong at 4 either, impressive winners list, and actually a historic race, first ridden in 1907, older than RVV. Think at 4 is ok. Yes, Kuurne probably has the more impressive startlist. But that's because the riders and teams are there to ride Omloop, and just add Kuurne. Few riders (probably not 0, but mostly Belgians I guess) just ride Kuurne but not Omloop.

Milano-Torino: Read FL!

Italian autumns races: Belgium isn't (wasn't?) the only country with a lively 1 day racing scene. Italy was up there, especially with the autumn. Trittico premondiale, not trittico Lombardo, 3 races, Agostoni, Bernocchi, Tre Valli... with Tre Valli being the most important (seemingly, I always like Agostoni) this for me is the most bordeline 4 of the 3 you mention. Often doubtful strength of the starting list. Hm, I take that back, just went to check to be sure, it has a surprisingly strong field usually. But remains the most doubtful of the 3. Also a historic race ridden since forever.

Gran Piemonte, another historic race, as Giro del Piemonte. Changing courses, right now has no real own identity, that's true, pre-Lombardia, RCS some years couldnt' find the money to organize it even, as with Milano-Torino, now regular again, changing courses, no real own character, but history, still fairly strong field... enough for cat 4. More than Kuurne.

Last one Emilia, pah, this one is a safe 4. Pogacar, Roglic winning in the last years, of course that's cat 4.

Enough.

Some stuff could be retalked, but Kuurne at higher than 3 for me clearly isn't one of those things.