Number of races for classics

[Robyklebt]

First, which races are restricted, which not:

Cat 6, the monuments D1-4, clear.

Cat 5 is a bit unclear, last year many were restricted to D1-4 as well, Amstel, Flèche etc, this year doesn't seem to be the case, Gent open for everybody.
Which will it be? Cat 5 restricted too? Or not? Both ok. But even if it changes it will have to change from Amstel onwards, can't change Gent now, too late. But would be nice to have a standard, yes I like standards...

Cat 4 open for everybody so far.

I would at least close Cat 4+5 for D6. Let people earn the right to participate even to "lesser" classics, like E3, Emilia etc. Cat 5 we could make it like Cat 6, only 1-4, we could leave it open for 1-5, both ok, I prefer 1-4, but not really important.

But anyway, for the moment I'll focus on the D1-4 races, Cat 6 (+maybe Cat 5 from April on)

And only for weekends, if Cat 5 is included, for a race like the Flèche Wallonne in the middle of the week, 5 races is ok, less flexibility than on the weekend.

So, D1-4 races on the weekend.

4 or 5 times? I'm clearly for 4. Why? Already said it 50 times.... 2 things come into play when deciding how many editions of a race we have: 1: As many managers as possible can play. 2: Quality of the different groups. For weekends the clear majority should be more flexible. With 4 times most should be able to play. So focus on increasing the quality... 4 times!


Milano Sanremo we had 5 races. 10-14-17-20-23

10: 15 teams
14: 23 teams
17: 13 teams
20: 15 teams
23: 20 teams

So of 180 teams who could have started, only 81 started, finally we had 5 ok times, one very unlucky split though. No parallel races for D1-4.

Flanders: Settimana Lombarda at the same time, a few D1-4 managers will start there. Looking MSR, we probably can expect even less teams participating (if that's even possible...) so 5 would be too many.

PR: Nothing parallel. So if Leso really wants 5 times, maybe ok, I would prefer 4 though.

Amstel (if Cat 5 is restricted too) Castilla y Leon parallel: See flanders, 4 times enough, 5 too many.

LBL: nothing parallel, so if Leso really wants, 5 times ok... still prefer 4...

[lesossies]

Cat6 OK
Possibel: Cat5 Races for Div1-5 and parallel race to this for Div5-6 if place for a parallel race, if some important tours are running parallel, more difficult.

For Cat4 races possible too but not a standard, only when realisable.

MSR was at Saturday, bad day -> 5 times for more choices.
Monuments at Sunday, 4 times could be better. we´ll see.

[Robyklebt]

Use this topic again.

Emilia 6 times. IMO it's too much. Too late of course, still mention it.
Same arguments as before. 1 day race, classic, try to get high level groups for high level races. 6 times? On a Saturday, weekend, a bit more flexibility for many people. Even if you said that saturday was a "bad day". 6 IMO is just too much, even when there is no tour parallel. For classics we want the best possible groups. Terray vs Coulieu vs Bearclaw vs Feng vs Sheringham vs Dahlin vs Rhodes etc. etc. Ok, even with less times we won't get that not all the star climbers start at the same time. But with 6 times it just dilutes the groups much more than would be necessary. 4 or max 5 would have been enough. For a classic on a weekend.

[captain ahab]

is it gonna be the same procedure this year ?

grand tours and monuments for div 1-4

kat5 open for div5 as well...?

[Robyklebt]

Ok, wasn't the same procedure this year. Milano Sanremo yes, April now is D1-5

IMO wrong.

What's the effect of D1-5? It just excludes D6 and D6b. Ok. 6b can be a pain in the ass, no races, shows up for the classic, but they can come up to D5 with one race before, so no real effect. D6? They destroy races, bla bla. Don't believe it, sometimes they ride in a way that hurts team a, then team b, but deal with it. First have to show they know how to ride, learn, ok, maybe why not. No problem with excluding them. Earn your spot.

But D5 in? Why does earn your spot not count anymore there?
It hurts D2-3-4 Even with 5 editions. Let's say an edition get's 18 teams from D1-4. Add 12 from D, 30, what happens, 3 teams that would have been in group one end up in group 2. Not good. Then let's start talking about complicated formulas that guarantee a strong group 1, that doesn't split evenly or in doubt even more for group 2.

Why this idea that it's "fair" if D5 can ride monuments? They are not good enough to be in D4, or they didn't have the time to ride enough, or they had a long break. Is that fair to the guy who rode, managed to be in a top position of D3 and then is kicked to group 2 just because for "fairness" we have to let D5 ride monuments? D5 in Cat 6 races is not fair, it's unfair, it's undeserved. And don't care if it's Radler. Earn you spot in the monuments at least. Cat 5 for D1-5, ok, why not. But the 5 monuments?

Let's at least have high quality racing a few times a year. That means strong very strong groups, but not blocked groups like at WC because everybody has roughly the same team, in strong groups.

Monuments: D1-4, 4 editions. Giro di Lombardia in October, doubt you can kick them out of it now (although,, mmh Vuelta mmhh..)

[lesossies]

MSR 2011 and Vlaanderens Mooiste 5 times and 5 good fields.
Paris Roubaix 5 times maybe too much but too late to change.
Arguments pro or contra Div5 for monuments for me in balance. I let it flexible.

[Robyklebt]

I think for April you should leave it like you started... D1-5... because you started like that, you announced it like that. (resp. put it in before the month changed like that)

But in principle I think it should be 1-4, let people earn the qualification for those 5 races a year.

And wrote another thing here too, wrong thread, but anyway... Tell your hard working son, that you buy him an icecream if he puts in the Division for which a race is rideable somewhere else than the inscription. There is space in the overview, if sometimes you plan to make it different for different editions, then in the all races...