Pavé downhill, solution. Designing/technical ?
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:38 pm
It's a continuation from this thread
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9668
But really think a clearer solution than the final recommendation by Alk/Flock would be useful. And IMO is kind of urgent, real pavé season is coming soon already.
Ah, background: My guess is that something like this happened:
The old downhill bug, -3 or steeper downhill, when groups that weren't riding were stronger than groups that were riding (and it depended on what the first group did anyway, but forgot if they had to ride or not for the bug to happen) was basically the solution to what we have now? Buh or Luques when playing around with the pavé selectivity in climbs and downhill ended up adding this thing that turned out to be a bug.
And now that the bug is corrected, we have the situation that there's weird behaviour in at least downhill pavé, not sure how it affected the climbs or the flat, if at all.
Behaviour now:
-1 with pavé has become more siebable according to Flockmaster (I didn't realize it during the race). Actually IMO that's ok or even good, was always a bit weird that a -1 makes it so hard to sieb, it's not like it is harder in reality, higher speeds, those that are dropped might be dropped by less, but still dropped.
-High downhill with * just supercharged the downhill skill, which of course is completely wrong. Huge differences.
Then lots that we don't know really. What's the effect at -2? -3? -4? etc. What would be the effect of steep downhill not just with * but with ***, or *****?
That's why the advice "no downhill pavé in designs" right now to me is not that satisfactory a solution.
Job for Alk:
1) Find out what effect it has on other downhills, see above. Knowledge! Right now we know little, guess/assume a lot.
Then find a solution.
That can be: Ban all downhill pavé in designs. Ban certain downhill pavés in designs. Or even put the bug back in, then we have downhill pavé unti -2 at least. I realize that a real solution right now is not possible, other things to do for Alk, analyzing the whole pavé thing will take time. But a better solution then this unclear recommendation we have right now IMO is necessary. AND and analysis of what exactly changed after the bug correction, what did it affect?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9668
But really think a clearer solution than the final recommendation by Alk/Flock would be useful. And IMO is kind of urgent, real pavé season is coming soon already.
Ah, background: My guess is that something like this happened:
The old downhill bug, -3 or steeper downhill, when groups that weren't riding were stronger than groups that were riding (and it depended on what the first group did anyway, but forgot if they had to ride or not for the bug to happen) was basically the solution to what we have now? Buh or Luques when playing around with the pavé selectivity in climbs and downhill ended up adding this thing that turned out to be a bug.
And now that the bug is corrected, we have the situation that there's weird behaviour in at least downhill pavé, not sure how it affected the climbs or the flat, if at all.
Behaviour now:
-1 with pavé has become more siebable according to Flockmaster (I didn't realize it during the race). Actually IMO that's ok or even good, was always a bit weird that a -1 makes it so hard to sieb, it's not like it is harder in reality, higher speeds, those that are dropped might be dropped by less, but still dropped.
-High downhill with * just supercharged the downhill skill, which of course is completely wrong. Huge differences.
Then lots that we don't know really. What's the effect at -2? -3? -4? etc. What would be the effect of steep downhill not just with * but with ***, or *****?
That's why the advice "no downhill pavé in designs" right now to me is not that satisfactory a solution.
Job for Alk:
1) Find out what effect it has on other downhills, see above. Knowledge! Right now we know little, guess/assume a lot.
Then find a solution.
That can be: Ban all downhill pavé in designs. Ban certain downhill pavés in designs. Or even put the bug back in, then we have downhill pavé unti -2 at least. I realize that a real solution right now is not possible, other things to do for Alk, analyzing the whole pavé thing will take time. But a better solution then this unclear recommendation we have right now IMO is necessary. AND and analysis of what exactly changed after the bug correction, what did it affect?