Second Team

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schappy
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Second Team

Post by schappy » Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:39 am

I want to make a suggestion. I know much people dont like it, but i try to say it.

At the moment we dont have so much Teams. This ist very clear. What can we to to have not senseless Races with 3 teams. Why not allowed to have a second team?
Of course with sume restrictions:
- clear declaration of the second team (for example Schappy 2)
- only 10 (maybe 15) races in a month
- not allowed to sell riders until they are 34 (prevent Farmer Teams)
- not allowed to buy Youth riders with the best Skill (for exmaple Classic starting skill only 55-72, Moutains 72-55, Sprinter 79, TT 75 to save the market)
- of course not in the same Race with the first team



I mean nobody have a advantage or disadventage if you have a team or not. But the game could be a bit better.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Mangahn » Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:48 am

Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire.

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Re: Second Team

Post by schappy » Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm

Arguments against it?
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Re: Second Team

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:13 pm

Mangahn wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:48 am
Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire.
Actually you have an impressive record proving the opposite, trying to shut down voices you don't like.
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Re: Second Team

Post by flockmastoR » Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:21 pm

schappy wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 pm
Arguments against it?
Implementation work. You need another separated TM (better say a whole new division) for those teams. Have to limit stuff in order to avoid missing them. I personally don't like the idea. If it is about to fill up the races it won't work IMO if we have about 30 active teams right now and 50%of them would ride a second race per day (I wouldn't) that doesn't solve the problem. If we discuss about this "second team" topic, there are pages and pages written down in the forum. I personally would go for the "realistic" approach to allow teams to participate in more than one race (both races have to be real races kat 2+). But that's also complicated, would need to make it easier to have bigger teams. More races with less riders (why not start your number 2 race with just 5/7 riders). Also points and money? No or limited for the "second" race.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Quick » Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:43 pm

All for it. Completely without restrictions until we can fill our races more. Don't even need to be called Schappy2 either. Allow multis if it's not in the same race.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Mangahn » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:16 pm

Für mich würde es das Spiel killen. Free und Roby in so ziemlich jedem Rennen? Oder, wenn wir nicht mich nehmen, TMA, Hansa und Mangahn in 2 Rennen täglich genau zu der Zeit die derjenige kann?

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Re: Second Team

Post by Quick » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:27 pm

Durchaus bis zum Ende gedacht. Lieber jedes Rennen gegen Free als zu 3. herum zu gurken.
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Re: Second Team

Post by FSG Sattelpuper » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:08 pm

Lieber viel Werbung machen, wenn hier alles wieder auf Vordermann gebracht worden ist!

Im Augenblick habe ich zwar auch Zeit und viel Lust zu spielen, aber fürs Spiel ist es definitiv besser wenn nicht die vollausgebildeten Zweitmanager auf die Rookies treffen. Ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass die dann schell die Lust verlieren, wenn sie da nicht mithalten können und ihnen dann die besseren hinteren Plätze von den Zweitteams noch weggenommen werden.

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Re: Second Team

Post by schappy » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:25 pm

Today it seems the highest participation is a race with 5 teams. I think something have to chance, or make less races a day. But then you lose more teams. We need more Teams. What is your plan for it?

@Sattelpuper. Viel ist nicht mehr auf Vordermann zu bringen, das spiel scheint momentan auf dem alten Flash-Niveau zu sein. Wie würde deine Werbung aussehen?
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Re: Second Team

Post by FSG Sattelpuper » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:23 pm

Keine Ahnung was an Geld für so eine Werbeaktion da ist?

Was teuer wäre, z.B. Werbung auf Eurosport während der Veltaübertragung.
Nicht so teuer wahrscheinlich Bannerwerbung im Internet bei Eurosport oder bei anderen Sportmanagerspielen.
Sich mit anderen Betreibern von Onlinespielen absprechen, um eventuell gegenseitig Werbung zu machen.
Selber Werbung schalten z.B. bei Onlinliga, da als Hauptsponsor aktiv werden.
Ganz einfach, Mails an ehemalige Spieler, die schon länger nicht mehr aktiv waren.
Irgendwie einen Bonus für Freundschaftswerbung, wenn dieser mindestens 20 Rennen bestreitet.
Selber irgendwie Werbung impletieren im Spiel mit echten Werbepartner, um Geld für andere Werbung zu generieren.

Da gibt es mit Sicherheit noch viel mehr, da bin ich kein Experte für. Ich habe auch keine Ahnung, wie sich das hier finanziert, da ich weder was bezahlen kann noch irgendwo Werbung zu sehen ist.

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Re: Second Team

Post by Hansa » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:36 pm

FSG Sattelpuper wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:23 pm
Keine Ahnung was an Geld für so eine Werbeaktion da ist?

Was teuer wäre, z.B. Werbung auf Eurosport während der Veltaübertragung.
Nicht so teuer wahrscheinlich Bannerwerbung im Internet bei Eurosport oder bei anderen Sportmanagerspielen.
Sich mit anderen Betreibern von Onlinespielen absprechen, um eventuell gegenseitig Werbung zu machen.
Selber Werbung schalten z.B. bei Onlinliga, da als Hauptsponsor aktiv werden.
Ganz einfach, Mails an ehemalige Spieler, die schon länger nicht mehr aktiv waren.
Irgendwie einen Bonus für Freundschaftswerbung, wenn dieser mindestens 20 Rennen bestreitet.
Selber irgendwie Werbung impletieren im Spiel mit echten Werbepartner, um Geld für andere Werbung zu generieren.

Da gibt es mit Sicherheit noch viel mehr, da bin ich kein Experte für. Ich habe auch keine Ahnung, wie sich das hier finanziert, da ich weder was bezahlen kann noch irgendwo Werbung zu sehen ist.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm

Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.

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Re: Second Team

Post by schappy » Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:08 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm
Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.
Then you have a big adventage for big and rich teams. Dont know if this is what make the game better.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Quick » Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:22 am

schappy wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:08 pm
Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm
Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.
Then you have a big adventage for big and rich teams. Dont know if this is what make the game better.
Would only help the 3 teams which are big enough to ride two races but would do nothing to fill the groups.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:32 am

Patience!We've been losing managers for years, now that we have a very slight increase there's no need to get either too excited or too depressed.

The very low numbers this weekend are for 2 reasons.
1) weekend
2) too much Pologne.

Donkey wrote this in June when it was planned:
30.07. Clasica de San Sebastian, cat 5 times 9-15-18-21 and Tour de Pologne, cat 3, times.... 10-14-19-22? But unsure if we want 4 with San Sebastian parallel... and if it's good to have mostly the same times as the Tour.
Normally I think i would have preferred 3 times... but then forgot it until late in the month, designing and stuff, so don't feel like changing something without any feedback late in the month. So it stayed as it was written in the thread (that 5 people read? Doesn't matter, I always assume everybody read it.)
Should simply have thought a bit more in early June. But the overall number of riding managers this weekend wouldn't have been bigger, probably smaller.
Patience, we all know he game is good, once it's back up to be 100% playable easily, we will get more players again, until then let's be happy with the small increase and wait for the de-flashing to be complete. Without pressure (except for the misnamed point jersey)
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Re: Second Team

Post by IDF » Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:00 am

Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm
Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.
PTT approves.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Pokemon Club » Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:39 pm

Quick wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:22 am
schappy wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:08 pm
Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm
Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.
Then you have a big adventage for big and rich teams. Dont know if this is what make the game better.
Would only help the 3 teams which are big enough to ride two races but would do nothing to fill the groups.
That's wrong, currently with 16-17 riders you can ride 2 races per day. Today new teams start with 20M, so they can easily start with 10 or 11 riders. It is that hard to grow up the team with 5 or 6 riders more in one year ? I don't think that.

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Re: Second Team

Post by Quick » Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:36 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:39 pm
Quick wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:22 am
schappy wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:08 pm
Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:52 pm
Better to allow teams to have more riders, and let teams ride a second race with riders that doesn't ride the first one in my opinion.
Then you have a big adventage for big and rich teams. Dont know if this is what make the game better.
Would only help the 3 teams which are big enough to ride two races but would do nothing to fill the groups.
That's wrong, currently with 16-17 riders you can ride 2 races per day. Today new teams start with 20M, so they can easily start with 10 or 11 riders. It is that hard to grow up the team with 5 or 6 riders more in one year ? I don't think that.
Even if.

Very fun to ride the flat profile twice as well. Once with a normal team and the other time with your 550k mountain and classic riders. Yea great idea, makes sense for absolutely nobody except for the 3 guys like you. ;)
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Re: Second Team

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:59 pm

Generally to allow a second team or second race, the same is true as for different division system etc: A lot of implementation work - before we have even finished the existing features - and unclear how large the impact will be, while there is no real consensus at the moment. Hence, I'm going to prioritize bugfixing and implementing features that are still missing compared to previous Flash version.

If we allow anything like this in the future, I would support the suggestion from AAD:
flockmastoR wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 1:21 pm
I personally would go for the "realistic" approach to allow teams to participate in more than one race (both races have to be real races kat 2+).
Maybe even only kat 3+ or kat 4+ to limit the financial benefit for big/rich teams. But for a few select races it would be a nice feature and very realistic. Teams riding Paris-Nice and Tirreno-Adriatico for example. But it's really something for the future...
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Re: Second Team

Post by Bear » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:32 pm

I am against a second team or second race solution. It's really important that you can choose your time for playing and there is no advantage for people having more time. People with a lot of time can race twice a day... so more money, more wins... or not? If you cant earn something, nobody will do it. Except for test reasons. But this is worth it? I dont think so.

So for me it''s important to keep the balance. At the moment there is no advantage for teams which are 24/7 online. And I think this is good like it is.

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Re: Second Team

Post by schappy » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:54 pm

thats why i say a second team with this restriction. the main team has no advantage and the second are not allowed ti make more then 10 races. so they dont get to much from the news teams.
and so it isn neccessary to change something in the game. only to allowed it with restrictions. not to need a new division or market.
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Re: Second Team

Post by Schartner Bombe » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:23 am

Mangahn wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:16 pm
Für mich würde es das Spiel killen. Free und Roby in so ziemlich jedem Rennen? Oder, wenn wir nicht mich nehmen, TMA, Hansa und Mangahn in 2 Rennen täglich genau zu der Zeit die derjenige kann?

Alberne Vorstellung. Kreativ, aber nicht bis zum Ende durchgedacht.
Sehe ich auch so. Eigentlich überhaupt nicht durchdacht. Wer für zwei Teams Zeit hat, kann sich ja dort anmelden wo das Peloton groß ist? Derjenige hat dann ja den ganzen Tag Zeit? Wer nicht den ganzen Tag Zeit hat, braucht auch kein zweites Team? Absolut unlogisch - der Vorschlag ;-)

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Re: Second Team

Post by Quick » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:55 am

Der Grundgedanke war ja, dass Leute mit Zeit und Motivation ein 2. Rennen am Tag fahren um generell größere Felder zu haben.

Und nicht umgekehrt, dass sich der mit viel Zeut einfach das größte Feld aussuchen soll, wenn er es will.
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Re: Second Team

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Aug 02, 2022 10:04 am

Quick wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:55 am
Der Grundgedanke war ja, dass Leute mit Zeit und Motivation ein 2. Rennen am Tag fahren um generell größere Felder zu haben.

Und nicht umgekehrt, dass sich der mit viel Zeut einfach das größte Feld aussuchen soll, wenn er es will.
Ich glaube ja gerade, dass es dieses Problem gar nicht löst, ich würde jetzt ungern vorübergehend Multis ohne Einschränkung erlauben (das ist die einzige Lösung die kurzfristig umsetzbar wäre). Ich glaube wir sind alle überzeugt davon, dass das Spiel gut genug ist um wieder genügend Teams zu bekommen, wenn die aktuellen groben Schnitzer am TM behoben sind. Vielleicht ist ja trotzdem eine gute Möglichkeit um den Transfermarkt vorübergehend besser testen zu können. Aber wenn jetzt jeder ein Multiteam hat, komm ich mit dem hinterherräumen am TM gar nicht mehr nach :lol:
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