Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Discussion about technical stuff and suggestions for improvement.

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:31 am

bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am
if noone else means its idiotic than let it roll ... and i wait for my (idiotic) big nice plate some day :-)
(that i dont want to eat)

but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
Well everyone knows now, and RfM has made a fool of himself to desperately get those "wins" and money, so he has to live with that now too.

I think it would make sense to at least need 2 teams for a race.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Quick » Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:44 am

bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am

but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
If you see one of his riders in the all time top statistics it's now an instant reminder that he chose to ride 16 days alone. I think that's more funny than an annoyance :lol:

Apart from that you can simply ignore RfM in the statistics.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:15 am

bergwerk cycling wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 5:42 pm
bergwerk cycling wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:10 am
and next question ... is it tecnical possible not to start races under 4 or 5 teams?

I see so often races with 2 or 3 teams ... make that really sense???
and i ask again as i see the race at 14 o'clock Anden???!!!???
bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am
but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
Victories absurd?

2006: 39
2007: 32
2008: 44 (1)
2009: 19
2010: 30
2011: 52
2012: 34
2013: 50 (2)
2014: 39
2015: 25 (4)
2016: 17 (1)
2017: 45
2018: 57 (1)
2019: 48
2020: 55 (1)
2021: 61

That's my victories per year. Notice something? Yes, 2016 is embarrassing, but anything else? How even my numbers are high now 55+61 in the last 2 years, why do you think, is that because of I'm getting better and better or because there are less active managers? Spoiler, it's fewer managers. And no, it's not all 1 or 2 team races. 5 teams gives you shitloads of wins too. The rankings are "absurd" because of the fewer and fewer teams (starting when you had to pay or ride mind-numbing short races to earn race-points) teams active.

4-5 teams minimum? Who are you to forbid other teams to ride a race? Why should 3 teams that can only ride a race at that time be forbidden to ride that? Why? What for? You really want to have LESS active managers, because that's exactly what this incredibly short sighted policy would do. Make more people stop. Another 3 team race? Ok, let's make the best of it was often the thing we did in the last 2 years. Now it's: Another 3 team race? Ok, cancelled, so can't ride today. +

Now this Andes is clearly a special case. A guy who wasn't going to ride the Andes most likely (99%, but who knows). He see's the guys who wanted the Andes at that time leaving because the group too small to their liking, all gone, he changes his team to the cheapest version and now gets wins and some money for nothing. The whole thing for :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: He's not the first to ride a tour alone either, others didn't want to be taken out either in the past. He's the first that inscribes to ride it alone possible, but again, who cares, how does it hurt me and you in the end? He gets wins and is further up in the stats? Again, those of us who stayed active when many left all have an inflated win number anyway. These 15 wins won't change much. Is it fun for him? Who knows... I have had a few 1 team races, 2 at least, but not much more I think, at least one of the 2 was definitely more fun than a 2 team race with free. Nobody (Almost nobody) wants to ride a one team/2 team-3 team race, but if that's the only thing you have that day.... it's still more fun than: I can't ride because it hurts Bergwerk's feelings that I can have minimal fun. (It's not only you with that mindset though) For one day races IMO clear, you're in, you ride, even alone, can't be taken out either. For tours IMO if the guys riding all agree to be taken out, then cancel it, otherwise continue.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Wed Nov 09, 2022 12:22 pm

Question is: Who does it hurt if you disallow tours with just 1 participant. Not that I really care, but you can still ride 1 participant one day races instead of it.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by bergwerk cycling » Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:01 pm

everything ok, let it like it is ...i never ask again about sense or senseless...but in my eyes it stays total nonsense

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:13 pm

bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 1:01 pm
Question is: Who does it hurt if you disallow tours with just 1 participant. Not that I really care, but you can still ride 1 participant one day races instead of it.
Those that would have to ride 1 day races with RfM in this special case.

But more in general: The guy who for reasons that I can't understand either that wants to ride his 1 team stage race. And again, it's not the first time, Moja I think rode a whole race alone too not too long ago.

But it's sort of the wrong question, since
bergwerk cycling wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:10 am
and next question ... is it tecnical possible not to start races under 4 or 5 teams?

I see so often races with 2 or 3 teams ... make that really sense???
The proposal I consistently oppose has never been "cancel 1 team stage races", it has always been the wider "races with few managers, regardless of 1 day or stage races". Why, written before and you probably agree with that anyway.

This specific case is of course different from anything we had before for at least 3 reasons, (cat 3, 16 days, only manager there on purpose) (hm, Leinad Pavé in was similar in the "on purpose" thing actually, he then agreed to go out and a bunch of other people in) but since we didn't have any policy in place at all for that, the last solo tour rider wasn't forced out, so precedent, let's follow the precedent, even if as I said the circumstances were different.
Changing things depending on the mood of the moment is never a good idea.
But of course if now there is a consensus (or at least a strong majority )to in the future forcibly take out teams of races if there is only 1 team at the start in stage races, I don't have a problem with that either. STAGE RACES. Not this sweeping senseless proposal by Bergwerk. He should aks himself the question "sense or senseless"!!! :D
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Hansa » Wed Nov 09, 2022 3:14 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:13 pm
And again, it's not the first time, Moja I think rode a whole race alone too not too long ago.
May 2019 Tour of Norway 17h edition.

Not sure at that time there was the possibility for him to get taken out espacially for a Team that doesnt really know the Forum.

But also not sure if he would have wanted to get taken out because normally his time schedule doesnt really let him switch to alternative races.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Alkworld » Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:03 am

bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am
if noone else means its idiotic than let it roll ... and i wait for my (idiotic) big nice plate some day :-)
(that i dont want to eat)

but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
I'm currently working on the statistics, adding the number of teams in the race as well. Then there can be some weighted palmares considering number of teams. So those 15 wins will count as 0 in that statistic. Another thing that will be included is a weighted tour win statistic, which will consider the tour length as well, raising the significance of GTs over very short tours.

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:54 pm

Alkworld wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:03 am
bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am
if noone else means its idiotic than let it roll ... and i wait for my (idiotic) big nice plate some day :-)
(that i dont want to eat)

but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
I'm currently working on the statistics, adding the number of teams in the race as well. Then there can be some weighted palmares considering number of teams. So those 15 wins will count as 0 in that statistic. Another thing that will be included is a weighted tour win statistic, which will consider the tour length as well, raising the significance of GTs over very short tours.
That means Dec Tour or Andes will be showns as more important than Dunkerque or California ?

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Alkworld » Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:19 am

Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:54 pm
Alkworld wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:03 am
I'm currently working on the statistics, adding the number of teams in the race as well. Then there can be some weighted palmares considering number of teams. So those 15 wins will count as 0 in that statistic. Another thing that will be included is a weighted tour win statistic, which will consider the tour length as well, raising the significance of GTs over very short tours.
That means Dec Tour or Andes will be showns as more important than Dunkerque or California ?
That mainly means that after parsing all the race reports, we have lots more raw data to base the statistics on:
- palmares entries will be linked with race info (now, only the name of the race is known, but no details of the race)
- number of stages per tour win
- teams participating (number and name)
- position of each rider in every race
- race series (like World Tour) can be defined and results will automatically be calculated

What you (i.e. the community) want included directly in the game is up for discussion, what I wrote above are first ideas, but there are lots of new posibilities with the new raw data.

PS: In my personal opinion, Andes is definitely more important than Dunkerque or California, one of my highlights each year. But that's based on my own criteria (mainly mountains, complexity, fun :-) ), so feel free to have different ones.

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 am

Alkworld wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2022 11:03 am
bergwerk cycling wrote:
Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:05 am
if noone else means its idiotic than let it roll ... and i wait for my (idiotic) big nice plate some day :-)
(that i dont want to eat)

but then all the nice statistics to compare victories are also absurd. But its only my opinion ... so let it go on.
I'm currently working on the statistics, adding the number of teams in the race as well. Then there can be some weighted palmares considering number of teams. So those 15 wins will count as 0 in that statistic. Another thing that will be included is a weighted tour win statistic, which will consider the tour length as well, raising the significance of GTs over very short tours.
First of all: Great to see progress in the statistics. Very nice to have this new overview

Ideas on how to "improve": make 3 tabs like "Total | One Day Races | Stages in Tours". The view we have now would be "Total" by just deleting the "# Stages" column (or also leave it in the Overview).

I would like to have the split view because of the Win / Category section. I want to see who is performing well in one day race classics and probably Grand Tours seperately. Right now it is merged together and it is usually describing totally different team efforts.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:40 pm

Would be nice to see the online status of teams again in some situations

1) Spectator chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
2) General chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
3) Inscription, would probably also be nice to see if the yet undecided teams are online right now, just give a green or red dot after the team name. Not hideable to others. It would indicate that a random team, let's say "free team" has just inscribed 8/9 riders but is online 5min before the end of the inscription and another team, let's say "RideforMoney" has not signed in any rider and is off at that time. As some teams use late inscription as a tactical move and some teams dislike that, it could give the latter a better view on the situation.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by ProTour-Team » Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:09 pm

flockmastoR wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 am
Ideas on how to "improve": make 3 tabs like "Total | One Day Races | Stages in Tours". The view we have now would be "Total" by just deleting the "# Stages" column (or also leave it in the Overview).

I would like to have the split view because of the Win / Category section. I want to see who is performing well in one day race classics and probably Grand Tours seperately. Right now it is merged together and it is usually describing totally different team efforts.
The overview is great, indeed! I like the ideas and if it is that easy to use the database i would like to add even more tabs/columns^^
the overall stats not only for wins but for all races and maybe even loses, Wins / Category and Wins / # Opponents as total numbers and as %.
⌀ Opponents and Wins / # Opponents who started the race instead of finished, or just both.
flockmastoR wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:40 pm
Would be nice to see the online status of teams again in some situations

1) Spectator chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
2) General chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
3) Inscription, would probably also be nice to see if the yet undecided teams are online right now, just give a green or red dot after the team name. Not hideable to others. It would indicate that a random team, let's say "free team" has just inscribed 8/9 riders but is online 5min before the end of the inscription and another team, let's say "RideforMoney" has not signed in any rider and is off at that time. As some teams use late inscription as a tactical move and some teams dislike that, it could give the latter a better view on the situation.
1)+2) why care about those? imo if somebody wants to talk there he will either way
3) funny idea, but to see it you have to be online yourself. not sure if that would make it better or worse. for the random teams but even more so for the teams disliking it while some kinda do the same stuff more often aswell ;)

but you missed the most important one anyway, showing if a team is using auto mode or not :!:

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:52 pm

ProTour-Team wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:09 pm
flockmastoR wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:09 am
Ideas on how to "improve": make 3 tabs like "Total | One Day Races | Stages in Tours". The view we have now would be "Total" by just deleting the "# Stages" column (or also leave it in the Overview).

I would like to have the split view because of the Win / Category section. I want to see who is performing well in one day race classics and probably Grand Tours seperately. Right now it is merged together and it is usually describing totally different team efforts.
The overview is great, indeed! I like the ideas and if it is that easy to use the database i would like to add even more tabs/columns^^
the overall stats not only for wins but for all races and maybe even loses, Wins / Category and Wins / # Opponents as total numbers and as %.
⌀ Opponents and Wins / # Opponents who started the race instead of finished, or just both.
flockmastoR wrote:
Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:40 pm
Would be nice to see the online status of teams again in some situations

1) Spectator chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
2) General chat, still with the option to "hide" yourself
3) Inscription, would probably also be nice to see if the yet undecided teams are online right now, just give a green or red dot after the team name. Not hideable to others. It would indicate that a random team, let's say "free team" has just inscribed 8/9 riders but is online 5min before the end of the inscription and another team, let's say "RideforMoney" has not signed in any rider and is off at that time. As some teams use late inscription as a tactical move and some teams dislike that, it could give the latter a better view on the situation.
1)+2) why care about those? imo if somebody wants to talk there he will either way
3) funny idea, but to see it you have to be online yourself. not sure if that would make it better or worse. for the random teams but even more so for the teams disliking it while some kinda do the same stuff more often aswell ;)

but you missed the most important one anyway, showing if a team is using auto mode or not :!:
Well 1+2 I always found it helpfull to see who is active and it pushes the general chat/conversations, even more in the spectator chat, because after talking to yourself several times it would be nice to talk to other people too when they are there.

3) You can also see if inactive teams with no full squad will be part of the game, which is actually my goal (avoid too small groups in stage races)

And to your last point: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=9210&p=114234&hili ... sh#p114234
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Hansa » Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:02 pm

I would love to have more yearly stats.

i remember a couple years ago i did yearly stats on everything mountain jersey stage wins points gt wins and so on.

Maybe its possible to get all these stats for yealry.

because in my opinion its really interesting who performed how in the last year.

like this:viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7498

AND

DIV 1 WINS in ETERNAL TEAM STATS!
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Hansa » Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:26 pm

Current Balance could be red instead of green when negative. like on the finance page losses are in red.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by lennylenny » Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:17 pm

i would like to have the average rider stats on the team pages
i remember back in the day the main page for teams showed the average mountain, flat, downhill, etc.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by flockmastoR » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:23 pm

Is it possible that the sorting always START descending not ascending. Usually thats what you are sorting for!
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Hansa » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:29 pm

Div 1 wins in eternal Team stats Please!
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Schnuggeritos » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:08 pm

Here are a few suggestions for further statistics that I would like to discuss.

Game stats:
- active teams per season
- min / max teams that have participated in a race per season (had seen something like this somewhere in the forum)
- active unique teams for the last and current season (like points)

Split stats:
- required races per team / rider in the selected period to reach the wins

Maybe the game stats can be displayed in charts and filtering is possible via time and div (multiple selection).

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team » Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:14 pm

Suggestion regarding inactive teams and riders

It's a shame that we won't see the best riders in the game, because some are caught in inactive teams. I would like to open a discussion about releasing all riders after two or three months without a race of the team. That would give the transfer market a boost as well and many teams won't use the riders anyway in case they come back (because they restart). If a team wants a c4f break it's still possible, just not too long.

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Schartner Bombe » Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:28 pm

wrong theme, changed to statistics
Last edited by Schartner Bombe on Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by schappy » Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:18 pm

Can we implement on the transfersite a page "Last Transfer" where listened the last Transfers? Mayber 20 or 50 last Transfers.
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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by bergwerk cycling » Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:17 pm

nice would be too if you can see the story from the riders on the 2nd market in which team(s) they ride before

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Re: Suggestions on the new version of RSF

Post by Quick » Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:36 pm

Thanks to version 1.11.0 alphabetical sorting is back. Praise the overlords! Now if we could do this sorting by last name instead of first name, that would be perfect.
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