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An old topic came up again yesterday when riding with team betty
Current situation:
The youth transfer markets (YTM) for Div 1-5 and Div 6+ still makes no difference for flat, pavé and "classic" riders, while we have differences for climbers, TT specialists and sprinters. Max values are still 56 (climbing), 74 (flat) and 82 (internal pavé skill) on both markets. This leads to the following problems:
1) High supply of excellent riders for lower divisions: As there are more active teams in higher divisions, but at the same time, there are more riders available on the YTM for the lower divisions, the choice for the lower divisions is substantially higher while the price is in average lower (that's an educated guess, which is certainly true for the beloved 56-74-79 rider).
2) Intentional relegation: As the lower division's market is so appealing, managers intentionally try to go down to Div 6 to rebuild a strong classic rider's team there. While this is of course allowed, it's not really the point of having divisions. There should be motivation for going up, not for going down.
3) Farming (sometimes in combination with multi accounts): team betty looks like the perfect example for farming:
- was in higher divisions (also pretty successful in the past) before stopping to ride around the end of 2013
- bought 5 excellent classic riders in Div 6 (Jan / Feb 2014)
- no races for around half a year
- continued riding in August once the team got really strong

One suggestion to resolve that issue would be to introduce a limit on the skills for flat riders on the YTM for Div 6. One idea (the one proposed (without pavé) yesterday in the race) would be the following:
- max(mountain + flat) = 127
- max(flat) = 74
- max(climbing) = 56
- max(pavé) = 78
That would lead to maximum skills of 56-71, 55-72, 54-73 and 53-74.

Comments? Opinions? Other suggestions?

Betty is maybe the best fitting example, but unfortunately not the only one...like i said, there were dozens of teams going down on purpose - due the advantages the div6,7 market offers..the div 6,7 market is not used for what it is thought...it's not used to help young or new teams to get a team...it's mostly used from old teams to farm or buy a strong team

imo one of the main points to change...is the fact, that there are not only too strong riders available, also the pure number of riders is waaaaaaaaaaay too high

you got regularly 700 riders for div6,7 youthmarket...in div6 you have 55 teams with 1 or more eternal races - div7 57 teams with 10 or more eternal races...means roundabout 110 teams(imo even less cause of inactivity...let's say 80,90) and 700 riders to choose from, cause we have still the old market system there with the refreshs

div1-5 you have roundabout 250(maybe also a bit less..let's say 200 teams) and roundabout 260 to choose from...new riders appear from time to time, old riders disappear from time to time

summary....
Div1-5 - 200 teams choose from 260 riders
Div6,7 - 80/90 teams choose from 700 riders

numbers can be slightly different in reality...but the numbers should be close to reality

@alk-topic: complety agree with it

Max pavé = 78 ? At 74 flat you mean ?

guess his 78 pave was a mistake...no youth rider has 78 pave

That is a good idea

Rockstar Inc wrote:guess his 78 pave was a mistake...no youth rider has 78 pave

I fear my post was already too long

Max values are still 56 (climbing), 74 (flat) and 82 (internal pavé skill) on both markets.

I meant of course the internal pavé skill, which is also up to 82 for Div 6.

Internal pavé skill, as far as I know, is an addaption to the original pave system. Some years back, "official" pavé skill was calculated as 0,7 * flat skill + 0,3 tt skill. While the dependence to flat skill deemed ok to most, there was the wish to decouple pavé and time trail skills. Thus, in the calculation, tt skill was replaced by the "internal pavé skill" which is not to be trained, but constant for one rider. Maximum is 82, which was quite the maximum to which you could train tt skills if you focus to have 100% or the most possible on training flat skill. That means the maximum of "official" pavé skill is 0,7 * 74 flat skill + 0,3 * 82 "internal pavé skill" = 76,4.

Original idea to be discussed: Sounds reasonable to me.

after 3 weeks without comment from the boss...a little push

Looking at the market from time to time and seeing so many riders one would really like to bet on, but just never see to be offered to higher divisions, I have to support that push. I mean, you can just buy them down there, you don't even have to overpay. And that's not my point, it's ok if very good riders are rare, but then for everyone.

Team Lumbi is a perfect exmaple how fucked up this system is...next to the opportunities he got from the game, he's a dumb racist...looking at his fairness-ratings...fucking farmer and imo he was also mentioned in a former multi-case...such teams disgrace and spoil this game...fits perfectly in the row of betty, gasgas, luk...teams with 5,6 strong classics and nothing else, riding for a handfull months and then farming again...cause of this div6 market crap

has 6 riders...6 young classic riders

66/77/73/55/47 - 23 years
65/79/76/49/59 - 23 years
65/78/73/55/55 - 23 years
65/79/78/48/48 - 23 years
61/79/71/54/58 - 22 years
58/75/78/52/47 - 21 years

Looking at the young riders market its time to bring this up again:

Pave Riders: if you just sort the young riders market due to the pave value we have the first 10 riders available for div 6-7, one of them having the following values: 51 73 77 70 66 with 75,4 pave, ok with his reg he is ultra expensice but still. In the top 10 (div 6-7) there is just one rider below 72 flat, and some have good sprint values. All in all some good Pave leaders and/or helpers. In the top ten of div 1-5 there are just 3 usable pave riders (with pave 70 and flat 70+)

Can we make a restriction to div 6-7 as we have it for climbers and classic riders?

what? div6 has no restriction for classics...that's the biggest problem...

let me speak my mantra one more time...it's disgusting that you can easily farm a classic team in div6 with countless 55+/73+ riders, bought for the market value..especially when the number of teams who can buy these guys are in relation to div1-5 maybe 1:10..or even lower

still disgusting when you look at the numbers of riders a handfull teams can choose from...yes, handfull is overexaggerate but who the fuck cares...not the important persons unfortunately

you don't need to give bigger number of riders to div1-5, but you FUCKING HAVE TO reduce the number of riders for div6,7

I don't think actually that the system itself of D6-D7 market is useful at the moment. Just do a single market.

Ok ok, i will check and fix it in the next days. But continueing with two matkets. Single market would mean to many changes.

Just ask Quick and FL, they know this issue.

Sprinters are too strong in Div 6-7. 50-63-79 92 with 27years, very strong, with old system ok but now where trains are everything and flat became more important too I'd take 2 of those over any 95 sprinter. Too good for starters imo.

Pave riders - don't allow them to buy more than 2(3?) young riders with 74+ starting pave. We have this limit for mountain riders too, please implement it for pave too because at the moment it's asking you to build a pave-farm team.

Becausw of the bugs last week and other stress, i haven't done this. I try to implement it this week.

The div 6-7 young market isn't too strong, he is unnecessary. Just cancel it. We will have less farmers like that.

Pokemon Club wrote:The div 6-7 young market isn't too strong, he is unnecessary. Just cancel it. We will have less farmers like that.

+1

Div 6 is useless, just delete this division...

topic up
delete the market for Div6-7 and give more riders open for all divisions
there are many youth classics for Div 6-7 and noone buys them, but in Div 1-5 are nearly no youth classics
---> market for Div6-7 is useless and only really used by farmers

Although it's (almost) off topic:

...but in Div 1-5 are nearly no youth classics

are you sure?

I checked just some riders at the market and just 2-3 teams were trying to get them.
And they were not overpaid from what I saw. For example Quick's classic, under market value.
If there were not enough classics on the youth market, there might be a bigger rush on the classics, right?

A good example for the "Classic" problem in Div. 1-5 popped up today:

A 55-73-79 classic rider with 55 sprint 41 reg. The rider had 21 (!) bidders, although I don't know how many seriously bid. Anyway, the bids ranged from around 1'690'000 to around 2'250'000 (which then got the rider), for a market value of around 1'780'000. So the bid that got the rider was almost 500'000 higher than the market value. Maybe the near perfect first three skills demand such a high bid, but you can't deny that a lot of teams are looking for classics because there are not many suitable ones to find. In contrary of the Div 6-7 youth market, were you can not only find better classic but also pavé and classic pavé riders in higher numbers for (I guess) less active teams.

I still find my rider I want. I still can live with what's left, but maybe the game admins should think about doing something about a problem that has been discussed for years now.

team fl wrote:A good example for the "Classic" problem in Div. 1-5 popped up today:

A 55-73-79 classic rider with 55 sprint 41 reg. The rider had 21 (!) bidders, although I don't know how many seriously bid. Anyway, the bids ranged from around 1'690'000 to around 2'250'000 (which then got the rider), for a market value of around 1'780'000. So the bid that got the rider was almost 500'000 higher than the market value. Maybe the near perfect first three skills demand such a high bid, but you can't deny that a lot of teams are looking for classics because there are not many suitable ones to find. In contrary of the Div 6-7 youth market, were you can not only find better classic but also pavé and classic pavé riders in higher numbers for (I guess) less active teams.

I still find my rider I want. I still can live with what's left, but maybe the game admins should think about doing something about a problem that has been discussed for years now.

I think this numbers are perfect, the market in div 1-5 are working good, the problem is that it is too easy to find good riders in the lower div section

flockmastoR wrote:

team fl wrote:A good example for the "Classic" problem in Div. 1-5 popped up today:

A 55-73-79 classic rider with 55 sprint 41 reg. The rider had 21 (!) bidders, although I don't know how many seriously bid. Anyway, the bids ranged from around 1'690'000 to around 2'250'000 (which then got the rider), for a market value of around 1'780'000. So the bid that got the rider was almost 500'000 higher than the market value. Maybe the near perfect first three skills demand such a high bid, but you can't deny that a lot of teams are looking for classics because there are not many suitable ones to find. In contrary of the Div 6-7 youth market, were you can not only find better classic but also pavé and classic pavé riders in higher numbers for (I guess) less active teams.

I still find my rider I want. I still can live with what's left, but maybe the game admins should think about doing something about a problem that has been discussed for years now.

I think this numbers are perfect, the market in div 1-5 are working good, the problem is that it is too easy to find good riders in the lower div section

Are there some news? It's a bad situation for a small team. There are many strong, cheap riders in the Div 6-7 market, but it's quiet impossible to get something useful in Div 1-5, isn't it?