What future for RSF ?

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olmania
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What future for RSF ?

Post by olmania » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:52 pm

Hi folks !

Today, I write you here a quite long message (thanks for taking a minute or two to read it) to ask you if you would be interested in planning something to re-launch the attractiveness of RSF (I do not use the sentence to save RSF, to not scare you). I propose you my blabla today with the agreement of Buhmann and Lesossies.

I was not so active during the past months, but every time I was coming back to play, I was noticing that the number of players who are active and amibitious are reduced. Of course, many ''old'' players are still there, but I see less and less young wolves ready to reach the summit and actively fighting for it.
One of the main consequence is that players are today playing in smaller groups (the time groups were split in 2 is far away) and often against the same players (it sounds like a small village now, everybody knows everything about everybody).
I see now less and less crazy chat boxes with long conversations in it. I see less newbies asking for help and advices (but also less deaf ones just killing the race..).
I see more older players playing like machine and somehow loosing a bit faith in it ..

What brought RSF to this situation ?

I have some ideas, but of course, you should add yours and help us to identify all the problems that can be fixed, all the bad things that could be turned into something better ...

- It's understandable to see some ''old'' players disappear for personal reasons (not everybody can spend 2hours a day on a game, even if it's our beloved RSF !), and maybe some problems that takes time to be fixed (old bugs, sprint system ... Buhmann can not be full time working on RSF unfortunately) are not helping it ...

- Is RSF too difficult for new players ? Might be. The game improved a lot compared to its beginning and it's now way more complex. It does not mean that it's harder to play good (5years ago or now, I think you still need many weeks before being quite competitive), but it looks way harder in the eyes of a new player imo (and how most of human brains work: if it looks difficult, is must be difficult; so you loose confidence and motivation even before trying...). So many things to take into account from the first race to be able to have a little influence on the race.

- Are we really getting new players ? Does not seem so. I guess that if we ask for what kind of players we want, we will answer that we want players that will stay for the long term and won't behave like parasite noobs ... Are we trying to attract that target of players ? Do we have the tools and the power to welcome them and keep them in the game from the early beginning ?

- There are probably other reasons I can not identify clearly and it's better I do not mention according to the fact that I was quite away from RSF during the past months.

But, what I am sure of, is that it seems sad to see the community getting reduced and not really attracting lots of new potential players !

Would you like to try to do some things to change this situation ?
How many of you would be ready to spend a bit of time (on their own, or working in groups if we are enough) to give us a chance to attract more people to play with for a better game ?

Because, I am sure there are plenty of things we could try to do to help RSF !
Here, I propose you a couple of them, but I am sure that you have more in mind and that others can be found after discussions and debates !

- Develop a real complete Guide for new players. We have today some ressources, on the game or on the forum to help new players. I propose to collect them, agglomerate them and expend them ! From the basic guide to start ( for example, I know it's somehow already existing in French on the forum, but not available from the game) to detailed tutorials for every point and singularity of the game, we could improve this help session a lot ! We need to make it easy to access and complete (that the new player won't need to find his info in 3 different parts on the game and in 6topics and 3languages in the forum ...)
I think we could use lots of screenshots, videos, schemes, comics, texts, interviews ... in these tutorial to make it more interactive and easy to follow.
I already can imagine one of you making a video of his race (maybe not 2hours long ! huu :D) and focussing on the explanation of basic tactics, rules and simple moves ingame. Another one would make a video of a sprint to explain it in detail. Why not a tutorial linking the skills influence to the % of the profile and energy loss ... Many options !
Why not someone realizing interviews of old players to ask for tips and help new players to discover the traditionnal behaviors (how to ride in an escape, who do we expect to chase this escape...) ?

Of course, the most urgent would be to have something complete to help new players from the moment they connect the first time until they start to understand how it works.

Something I found interesting but that did not go good, the idea of a RSF dictionnary launched on the forum was not a bad one ... I think it's something easy we could do and fill in little by little. We could expand the definition of some tactical terms with illustrations in examples.

-And then, at the same time that we are improving our techniques to welcome and keep new motivated players, we should of course, attract them ! We need a bit of clever advertisement ! Maybe some of you are experts in it and have good ideas ? I am not, so forgive me :D
As I said earlier, I think we do not want 500noobs coming on the game in 3weeks and 95% leaving within the next month. So, we need to target the places we could get the appropriate players for RSF.
Posting a link on the most populated game forum for teenagers might not be the best option. Where to find people that might be interested to play like us ? Look around if you play other games, in all games you can find many serious and regular players, some of them might like cycling very much. Look at similar games, like RSF, that requires a bit of a brain (just a bit :D) and quite lots of interaction between players (we play live, don't we?) !

Our game is about cycling, many people like this sport. People talk about it on the net, people even play it (pro cycling manager has even more bugs than RSF and it costs a shitload of money !) ... so I am sure we can attract cycling fan that might like playing a game about it !
We need to think where and how we could find new players, what arguments to use to get them here to try RSF and how to welcome them properly that they would not be left alone from the moment they register to the race !

- and I guess that many other things could be done ... share your ideas !!

To conclude, I would like to know your ideas, your reactions and what else is needed in your opinion.
Also, I would like that all the people interested in spending a bit of time on this say it and specify in which field they are ready to help.
Then we could eventually give a better repartition to the workload in groups :)

Don't hesitate to mention this topic in your chatbox in race that more people would have a look ;)

I really think we need to do something to bring back RSF on the good slope and stop this dangerous decrease !

Olmania

Radomiak
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Radomiak » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:23 pm

I agree, some of the problem I already mentioned long time ago.
1. Rsf looks like a website created in 1998. The main problem that whole game is written in Flash and buhman disliked idea of rewriting some of the functions/sub-pages to php-jquery, which would give endless possibilites to improve look of the website and add new cool features. I know that rewriting whole game would be a tons of work so I agree that would be stupid, but some of the features SHOULD be rewritten to improve the game. I was offering my help with that, but I understand that buh don't want to show a source of the game to unknow person. However if he wants to improve the game he need to start doing something, not doing anything like at the moment results in decreasing player base.
2. I 100% agree with making better guide for newbies is a must. The problem are again the website tools, I was translating the game to polish lang and I know making guide via the rsf would be a big problem with current way it's done.
3. After improving/solving previous 2 points, we need admin/community to work on PR of our game attracting newbies.

These are my ideas. Also I have to mention that I feel like this game is alive only thanks to Leso and a very few other players(less than 10 i think) who contribute to it. The problem is that for working on improving game should be rewarded.

TL;DR
1. Need coder to add/improve features/look of the game.
2. Community need to make guide for newbies.
3. after 2 previous points are done, make advert campaign
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Eagle » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:48 am

I agree to Ol and Rado in most parts of their statement. But I see the biggest problem in programming new ideas or refix old ones. Buh hasn't a lot of time, thats ok, but if we want to have a more atractiv game and want to implement our ideas, we need a faster implementation. So maybe Buh should trust some programmer a bit, who play RSF. He must not present the whole code, maybe he gives only the order to manager to program an idea on their own and then he must only link this with the game.

So we had a lots of good ideas in the last years, but buh had no time to implement them, maybe we can do this with some programmer. Without this, we can create a lot of ideas, but they weren't implemented in the needed time.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:12 pm

There are sooooooo many bugs or "features" left that even if it was his full time job, Buh would spend 2 months on them that any new features IMO have to take a back seat.
So the future is: Wait and see.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Radomiak » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:41 pm

Robyklebt wrote:So the future is: Wait and see.
Yeah, we are doing it for last 2 years I think. It's great, lets don't change anything.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:11 pm

Actually not changing anything is the best thing.
See what happens with changes. We get the sprint. Which added 70 new idiocies and bugs to the game....
First get rid of idiocies and bugs, THEN continue developping. Everything else is the best recipe to lose more players.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Radomiak » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:16 pm

Robyklebt wrote:Actually not changing anything is the best thing.
See what happens with changes. We get the sprint. Which added 70 new idiocies and bugs to the game....
First get rid of idiocies and bugs, THEN continue developping. Everything else is the best recipe to lose more players.
You are wrong. The problem with adding new feature, like this sprint, and then dont give a fuck for a couple of months about developing it properly, thats the problem.

Adding features is good if you are doing it in proper way. Bad example(our sprint)
1. Add new sprint system to short races(or some special races to only test it) is a good thing, BUT you have to listen to what people say.
2. Add this to the game, despite bad opinions of it.
3. After some time 3/4 of players are saying its broken, it needs to be fixed cos its destroying game. Dont give a fuck about it.
4. Stay with broken sprint for a year, fixing 1 bug every 3 months while 2 new appear.
5. Wait till the community will used to new feature and will be tired of whining
6. Make community to dislike new features as result, which means profit, you dont have to work on game more. Succes !

Proper way:
1. Discuss new feature with other players.
2. Implement good ideas.
3. Test it, if it looks good and other people like it, add it to the game.
4. If test failed and it seems it's broken, fix it immediately. If it's not possible remove it till it's fixed.
5. Listen to what people say, try to improve it if players have good ideas.
6a. If feature was a complete disaster and people dont like it, remove it and act like it was never there.
6b. If everything works ok, most players like and enjoy it. Sit back with a glass of champagne. Watch how people prise you, send you cocaine and wants to copulate with you.

Also one more thing, not every feature has to be about race engine, there are features which can be added with not so big risk of destroying game.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by luques » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:00 pm

Yes, RSF needs to be revitalized.

For the user problem i see two problems

1) Existing users leaving
2) Low number of new users

Analysis of this problems:

Existing users

1) Some of them left because of the bugs and no new features.
2) Some of them left cause the flash application causes troubles while working or is slow
3) Some of them left after the change of the license / race point attribution.

For point 1 and 2, as many said we need new code, new things or repair existing ones. I agree with the hamster, better fix the bugs before and not work on a bugged base. Once the bug are fixed, let's implement new things.
Flash creates some problems too to those who have an old computer (or slow computers).

On the license thing, yes somebody left for it. Actually taking the race point is not so difficult but it looks so. Maybe we should try a new approach for it.

---------------------

New Users

1) New users can't find the website
2) New users find the game difficult

For point 1, we need to understand how the new player are coming (if from Google, from another website or what) and try to push RSF. Not only on Google, but also on browser game directories
For point 2 writing some guides or tutorials could be good, maybe create for them something interactive, or make them race the first time immediately after the inscription. (Personally I was going to introduce a sort of RSF school in the Italian Forum before it almost died).

-----------------

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by lesossies » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:41 pm

New Users

2) New users find the game difficult
not only the game is difficult but it is for sure difficult for new teams to be concurrent against the old monster teams.
One possibility could be to fix the maximal salary for races and tour, in function of class, cat and days amount.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Rockstar Inc » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:58 pm

stop thinking about new users...new users are interesting when the "old game" runs without bugs..
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:01 pm

lesossies wrote:
New Users

2) New users find the game difficult
not only the game is difficult but it is for sure difficult for new teams to be concurrent against the old monster teams.
One possibility could be to fix the maximal salary for races and tour, in function of class, cat and days amount.
Yes.

And give them some free points when they start, 20 or 30 free race points

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Buhmann » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:18 am

Great post olmania, thank you very much for sharing your minds. It is very nice to hear that someone is worry about the game.
Is RSF too difficult for new players
I think, yes it is. I don´t know how to solve this. But it is better than before. There are help messages until you ride your first race. Of course, the race itself is not very easy. If we would have many many new players we could think about tutorial races or something like this. But ithink there is a big effort for little earning.
Are we really getting new players
No...but the problem exists since years: Only in the season players come and then only because i buy advertising. Maybe i will make a next try with this when season begins. But i don´t think that it will really help in general.
Would you like to try to do some things to change this situation ?
The target audience of this game is very small. Cycling is at the moment not very popular in germany (and whyever, we still have more german speaker than user speak other languages) and the online aspect is not popular for everybody. Furthermore the browsergame marcet is sated and many users will switch to real desktop games.
A new try from my side could be offline races as alternative. Even if most current players would not like it: We need a much bigger target audience. The whole community would benefit by more players. Even if they are riding their own races. But i think many offline races would switch to online races after a while.
The main problem that whole game is written in Flash and buhman disliked idea of rewriting some of the functions/sub-pages to php-jquery, which would give endless possibilites to improve look of the website and add new cool features.
More possibilities with jQuery? Why? I know the technology. I definitely see advantages with this, but with flash there are no fewer possibilites but rather there are more. So changing the technology of the application won´t change anything in my opinion.
I 100% agree with making better guide for newbies is a must. The problem are again the website tools, I was translating the game to polish lang and I know making guide via the rsf would be a big problem with current way it's done.
Where is the big problem about this? I think for translations, we have a really good base.
stop thinking about new users...new users are interesting when the "old game" runs without bugs..
This won´t be the problem...no fixed bug would mean a single new player for the game. Sadly.


So i am really interesting in ideas how to get new more players (and keep them). I know that you are not happy with the situation, that i implement no new features. But this are not the reasons for getting no new players or keep them. So if you really have ideas, how to make the game bigger (min. as big as it was for 2, 3 years). But i don´t if the whoel technic is to old. Meanwhile there are so many really big browsergames or free to play games with great graphic. Maybe the time is over, that´s all. I would be really very happy if someone is able to convince me of the contrary.
If someone has a really good concept to improve the game with adequate effort, i would like to hear it and i would work together on it. Such a new motivation would be great. But i think such a plan would need a big PR part.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Buhmann » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:24 am

And give them some free points when they start, 20 or 30 free race points
They have 13 at the moment.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Pokemon Club » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:00 am

Offline races ?

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by luques » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:31 am

Buhmann just an idea. Then tell me no so I remove it from my mind :lol:

What about associate RSF to a Cycling News / Cycling Portal Web site?

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Buhmann » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 am

For 2 or 3 years I asked many sites for a cooperation. Mostly no answers.maybe asking per telephone would have been better than only writing mails.
so i really like this idea. If you or any one else is interested to try to get such a partner, just tell me!

The idea for a few years was: get a relative big partner.if that does not work: Get many small partners. The idea was that everyone can integrate Rsf. If a user register from his homepage, he would only be able to login to his team if he use again the link on this homepage.
this was only one idea because getting a big partner is hard. A good cooperation with one site would be easier and better. But how to achieve this? Someone wants to try? We could talk about a gift in case of success.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by olmania » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:08 am

I also agree that it would be great to fix a couple of things that need it firstly, then we could consider new things (for the race engine part).
We can already consider other things for tutorials, advertisement as mentioned earlier in this thread.

By the way, I am blind maybe, but did you answer the the point made Radomiak, would you consider possible to give a part of your coding work (under conditions and whatever you like/want) to motivated players that have skills in this ?

Finally to answer you here:
So i am really interesting in ideas how to get new more players (and keep them). I know that you are not happy with the situation, that i implement no new features. But this are not the reasons for getting no new players or keep them. So if you really have ideas, how to make the game bigger (min. as big as it was for 2, 3 years). But i don´t if the whoel technic is to old. Meanwhile there are so many really big browsergames or free to play games with great graphic. Maybe the time is over, that´s all. I would be really very happy if someone is able to convince me of the contrary.
If someone has a really good concept to improve the game with adequate effort, i would like to hear it and i would work together on it. Such a new motivation would be great. But i think such a plan would need a big PR part.
I think that RSF has some advantages that you can not find, or not that good in other games:
- Even if small, the community exists. You have a strong core of old players that are here to play everyday and also here to take time for the game (committees, design, proposing ideas, proposing help today for saving the game ...)
- The idea of a km by km competition is something special because today many players just want to connect 10minutes a day and see results day after; but for the ones who are bored of it or who can't keep a long interest in such a game, the live and exciting race of RSF is really attractive imo.
- It has a strong basis. We do not start from nothing, we already have a working game really developed ! We need to improve it, change couple of things maybe, but we have the core of it.
- It's cheap ! You can play 2hours a day (a lot !!) for almost no money ! When most of other games are proposing you different ways to play for free or pay for advantages (options and shit). RSF has only 2ways and the difference is about few euros, not much !
- You say design is a key ? Might be a key, but once again it depends who you target ... if you target a 14y.o kid that is gonna play 3months for holidays (spend his pocket money in it) and then leave (that's actually a target for many big browser games, get a huge turnover but be attractive enough that many players would leave a little money during the little time they play) ... yeah, might be better to have a sexy design ! But so many games that have strong small communities still attracting people little by little are having shitty design but a clever idea or a strong engine ;) (and RSF design could be way worse ... most important is to make it run good in all kind of laptops, computers, tablets ... imo)
- Cyclism popularity is bad in Germany ... ok, if you think it's so bad there ... let's target other countries then ! (for example as far as I know, cyclism is quite popular in NL & Italy and we don't have lot's of players from there...)
- Offline games rather than browser games ? it depends of players ... but many people are getting bored when playing offline and what is the concurrence for cycling offline game ? that PCM thing ? Let me smile ... And about concurrence for other online games, sorry, but no one as the potential and strength of a RSF. It s not cause some might have more players that they are better.
- To conclude, we need what ? not 100k new players, just a bit more, like in the past firstly, and later ... we'll see if more is possible. See how big is the internet ? if we can't find the few people we want there, it means we are bad at it, not that the potential people are not there ;) (every day thousands of new teenagers are getting their new laptop and leave the family computer for more freedom; world is full of students or people having time to play hours a day ...)


Finally I think it would be good if this topic would stay as a general discussion about : Are we doing something ? How ?
If the answer is yes, like this. Then we could open several topics to discuss strategies in details :)

But before opening these topics, it would be really good to know who would be interested in helping, and for what, so please, people, just leave a message to let us know :D (something like: I am ok to help a bit for tutorials. or : if you need someone to write in that code language, I could help. or: I know a bit about video making, I could help for a video about RSF ...) ;)

Don't you think that building some small teams of us (programming, tutorials, advertisement/marketing, etc.) would be a good idea to brainstorm a bit there about the details and be more efficient in decision making and actions ?

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by deuseburger » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:25 pm

moin miteinander,
since a few days i´m without a license for the first time since i came here in jan 08, thinking about leaving the game, to cut a long story short, its not about features, its more about that when i first came here it was the community that made a good game great fun, nowadays it seems to me its the community that makes a good game suck (ie no fun to play... and i´m counting myself in there) i will evaluate that point of view in some depth when i find some time to do so, just wanted to let you know in advance to add another perspective to this thread...

cheers deuse...
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Buhmann » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:52 pm

By the way, I am blind maybe, but did you answer the the point made Radomiak, would you consider possible to give a part of your coding work (under conditions and whatever you like/want) to motivated players that have skills in this ?
The problem is, that i would need much time to rewrite the code so that it is usable for other people. I could imagine of discussing together witch new feature we need and i would provide a small independent part, any necessarry function. I would define the input and the output and I think that´s all.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Allagen » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:20 pm

how to get new/more users


first of all, big thanks to buhmann for that brillant game! do not know any other game which motivate me since 7 years (damn long term of playing a game).

i do not think that the game itself is the mainproblem. the game is good. for sure we have some bugs and something to do better, but in general the game is really good.


much more advertising + comeback teams!

the game is good. but not everyone know that the game is good. so spend more money for advertising. and try to get some old teams back. send them a mail to reactivate their team (maybe with a little bonus, license 1 month for free). maybe 20-50 teams will come back. that would be enough for RSF at the moment.


new premium license to solve the multiproblems

the license is to cheap. nobody will die if you pay 20 € instead of 15 € for one year. use the extra money for advertising.

to kill two birds with one stone, we need a new premium-license. for maybe 30-40 €/year, you have some new feature. one feature, you are allowed to have a second team (maybe 3 teams for extra-extra money?)! a legal "multi"! if you go on the teampage of one team you see a link for the "multi". you are not allowed to play the same race. maybe the second team is only for cat 1-3 races. dont know.

you will get more money by that way (for more advertising and more users) and you have more active teams! so you killed two birds with one stone.

RSF has got a big Multi-Problem. i appreciate round about 60-80 Teams in Div 1-6 with more then one team! a lot of people love to play the game and one team is not enough. if they find out that you are a multi, your multi get a ban and your mainteam a warning. that is like no fine for me. so only little risk for multis. on the other hand, this shows that a lot of teams want more then one team. just legalized it :lol: for extra money!

for the illegal multis: they have 2 months to buy the premium license and they are able to keep 2 teams without a fine. after that 2 months, every multi will delete (mainteam and multi) which does not pay for it.


the problem now: if you delete the mainteams and the multis, RSF is not able to continue....if you count the mainteams and multis, you will get more then 200 teams...


...so this is maybe a solution. and buhmann is able to earn more money for more advertising. and maybe we have some new teams, because a team without a illegal multi team will create a legal team with the premium license. if the license is over, the second team will delete (after some weeks) automatically.

its a win-win situation in my opinion.


PS: this idea is not new! take a look at hattrick. they lost a lot of users and now they have a new premium-license for a second team.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Radomiak » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:09 pm

I am against rising the cost of license. Come on 15euro for browser game is a lot and it's not life-time license. Making license more expensive I will not be able to afford it. It will be better to make multies then.
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Allagen » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:28 am

another point:

we need a better RSF-App. It is really difficult to play with the app. for new teams its kind of impossible to play. escpecially the sprint. and the reactiontime to make tempo, etc is much to long at the app. maybe we need a new race/tactic design for the app.

the rest is okay. its easy to buy riders, find riders/teams, etc.


next point:


why the hell must we add all riders for a race just 30 minutes before the race starts? i do not see any reason for that. and some teams which want to ride quiet spontanous are not able to ride. i really do not understand this. maybe its only 1-2 teams which can not ride a race because of that, but its 1-2 teams to much...
RV Allagen. Qualität seit 2006. Erfolg seit 2006.

quentin
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by quentin » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:29 am

for me, the father of two children, a home owner. Work shift schedule "5h-13h or 13h-21h" and did a bit of sport. The main problem is the time it takes to play, about 1:30 per race. A reduction of playing time could be a solution to keep managers on the long term. Decrease of 20 seconds per kilometer looks good. For new managers their prohibit the transfer market for a while "one month, for example," so they can choose a standard team to start. This will allow them to have a strong team to start. soon. ;)
Les heures de gloires du manager.
Le Breizh Tour, le Danmark Tour, 2 fois West Vlaanderen Tour, la Franco Belge et 2 fois le Quatar Tour. 23 classements annexes. 82 victoires d'étape dont 7 titres de Champion du Monde. 3eme place au TT Jeux Olympiques.

lesossies
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by lesossies » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:27 am

Allagen wrote: much more advertising + comeback teams!

the game is good. but not everyone know that the game is good. so spend more money for advertising. and try to get some old teams back. send them a mail to reactivate their team (maybe with a little bonus, license 1 month for free). maybe 20-50 teams will come back. that would be enough for RSF at the moment.


new premium license to solve the multiproblems
for the illegal multis: they have 2 months to buy the premium license and they are able to keep 2 teams without a fine. after that 2 months, every multi will delete (mainteam and multi) which does not pay for it.
good ideas
I´ll speak with Buhmann

Radunion
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Radunion » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:05 pm

Another problem for new teams could be that you see (nearly) nothing about the game before you register. In the (ancient) past you could see the whole game before you register, including the spectator chat. I like to know more about an online game before I register, maybe I am not the only one.

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