Nations

[auxilium torino]

One of the professionell players here shall give me a list with nations which are necessary.

Then i integrate these. But not today of course...next weeks or something like this.

Professionell players????WOW
i think, if we get an expansion, why not 1 nation for continent

[Robyklebt]

Very stupid idea:

Antarctica? Which one do you want? Oh, there is none.
Oceania: We have Australia and NZ. PLUS Tuvalu and Vanuatu. Do we really need Fiji? Kiribati? Palau? Solomon Islands? Papua New Guinea? Tonga? Micronesia? Marshall Islands? Or were you thinking of Nauru maybe?
South America? What's left... Guyana and Surinam? Anything else? Neither shows anything in Cycling as far as I know. Completely unnecessary
North Amercia: Here again we have the main ones, ok here at least we could find some that could come in.. Guatemala maybe.., not going to check which countries do well.. maybe it's El Salvador. Or Dominica... but nobody doing well enough to warrant a place right now.
Europe: The same as with North America, EXCEPT that for non sport reasons Albania could come in.
Africa: Eritrea deserves it. Then before the civil war actually Libya might have deserved it too from the results in the past years
Asia: Sports nobody clearly, maybe Hong Kong you say.


1 from each continent?????

[captain ahab]

well there are some cyclists from guatemala that have an wikipedia-entry at least...(more and different ones in the english/german version of that site...)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie: ... atemala%29

...and the Vuelta de Guatemala(2.2/2.5 UCI tour) has been taking place ever since 1957(with 3 exceptions) and is according to english wikipedia the "the largest sporting event in the country in terms of spectator affluence"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuelta_a_Guatemala

so there is cycling-tradition and they are cycling-freaks there!


(...like the coloures)

[NoPikouze]

I want Curaçao !!

[auxilium torino]

north and south america don't neeed 2 new nation, one is right, and Guatemala is a really good candidate for this place, for sure more then Albania.
Eritrea, like you say, also must be in RSF, as number two in Afrika.
with Albania and Hong Kong are 4 nation that, i think, would good find their fans in RSF.
Oceania must not be, but why not? Would be nice!

[Robyklebt]

north and south america don't neeed 2 new nation, one is right, and Guatemala is a really good candidate for this place, for sure more then Albania.

Obviously so, since Albania isn't really in either north or south America. Last time I checked...

But in the end the question is: Just get more countries to have more, or just add the countries that really recommend themselves, that really earn their place?

I support the second option. And then it's 2 countries that get spots.
1 Eritrea all clear
2 Albania, see above, the potentially fairly high user connection.


No other countries IMO right now really push themselves.

If we just want more countries, then it depends what rules we follow. A rule for all continenets some spots? Or the best not represented countries or federations yet? I'd say the second one again.

Now let's see the CQ rankings of the last few years.

2011 (not current, since then 2010 plays in too, sept-dec)

41 Eritrea 447
55 Netherlands Antilles 145
56 Namibia 130
59 Hong Kong 112
62 Kyrgyzstan 71
65 Ethiopia 60
66 Panama 58
68 El Salvador 51
70 Bermuda 51
72 Albania 51
73 Angola 51
71 Georgia 51
75 Guatemala 51
79 Mongolia 51
80 Macedonia 51


That's the top 15 now.

2010

41 Eritrea 413
57 Honk Kong 178
58 Netherlands Antilles 168
59 Philippines 168
60 Kyrgyzstan 160
61 Dominican Republic 159
62 Namibia 158
69 Malta 113
71 Puerto Rico 112
72 Antigua and Barbuda 111
74 Cayman Islands 110
76 Mauritius 110
77 Mongolia 110
78 Macedonia 110
79 Taiwan 110

2009

55 Eritrea 172
57 Namibia 157
61 Kyrgyzstan 141
63 Guatemala 140
65 Libya 129
66 Mauritius 127
68 Malta 111
69 Cyprus 111
70 Netherlands Antilles 110
71 Mongolia 110
72 Albania 109
77 St Lucia 101
78 Bermuda 98
80 Lesotho 96
81 Seychelles 94

2008

50 Namibia 236
55 Mauritius 182
57 Kyrgyzstan 173
59 United Arab Emirates 162
60 Guatemala 160
61 Eritrea 159
65 Libya 123
68 Albania 116
69 Mongolia 116
70 Syria 116
72 Cyprus 112
73 Malta 110
76 Netherland Antilles 107
78 Lesotho 105
80 Dominican Republic 104

Clearly Eritrea nr 1. 2009-2011 nr 1, of those not in the game, with a huge point advantage. After that gets unclearer. Netherland Antilles, Namibia and Kyrgyzstan the other countries/federations that are always in the top 15. Hong Kong, Dominican Republic, Albania, Mongolia, Guatemala, Malta 3 times in the top 15. Actually add lesotho who in 2011 has the same points in CQ as nr 15, so 3 times in, and Mauritius too, which makes it 4 times in the top 15 even.

So:
Eritrea
Netherland Antilles
Namibia
Kyrgyzstan
Mauritiuss

The top 5
followed by

Hong Kong
Dominican Republic
Albania
Mongolia
Guatemala
Malta
Lesotho

And, due to the comparitevely high points in 2010 the Philippines too maybe.

Or let's maybe add the points together?
1 Eritrea 1191
2 Namibia 681
3 Kyrgyzstan 545
4 Netherland Antilles 500
5 Mauritius 470
6 Guatemala 458
7 Hongkong 434
8 Mongolia 387
9 Dominican Republic 384
10 Malta 372
11 Cyprus 354
12 Libya 352
13 Albania 338
14 Lesotho 333
15 St Lucia 308
16 Antigua and Barbuda 285
17 Bermuda 253
18 United Arab Emirates 252
19 Puerto Rico 248
20 Angola 227
21 Seychelles 225
22 El Salvador 215
23 Taiwan 212
24 Philippines 207
25 Panama 190
26 Syria 174
27 Macedonia 161
28 Cayman Islands 139
29 Georgia 137
30 Ethiopia 86

Here Top 7 in would seem kind of logic.

Maybe weight the years differently, 2011 x4, 2010x3 2009x2 2008x1?

1 Eritrea 3530
2 Namibia 1468
3 Netherland Antilles 1346
4 Hongkong 1275
5 Kyrgyzstan 1207
6 Guatemala 969
7 Dominican Republic 956
8 Mauritius 951
9 Mongolia 920
10 Bermuda 887
11 Puerto Rico 885
12 Malta 881
13 St Lucia 867
14 Cyprus 833
15 El Salvador 819
16 Lesotho 811
17 Philippines 786
18 Antigua and Barbuda 783
19 Albania 779
20 Taiwan 737
21 Libya 728
22 Macedonia 719
23 Seychelles 649
24 Georgia 643
25 Angola 622
26 Panama 575
27 Cayman Islands 574
28 Ethiopia 502
29 United Arab Emirates 446
30 Syria 372

Taking that, if we want Guatemala, not sure why we really want it, would be logic to add everything until 900 points, so top 9. But ok, maybe CQ is not good enough really, maybe we should check the UCI site for the UCI Tours? After all just having the results of the national championships will add points, so having them one year for one country but not the other would be a big difference.

I'm getting into this, so let's go!

Let's start with the AFrica tour, since Eritrea is dominating our non RSF CQ competition!

Added points from 2009-2011

1 ERITREA ERI 1350,68
2 NAMIBIA NAM 536,31
3 LESOTHO LES 263
4 LIBYA LBA 229,97
5 RWANDA RWA 189
6 ANGOLA ANG 140
7 IVORY COAST CIV 87,98
8 ETHIOPIA ETH 59,65
9 MAURITIUS 42
10 ZAMBIA 23
11 KENYA KEN 17,01
12 SAO TOME & PRINCIPE 15

Eritrea again first of non RSF countries. But Namibia in the race too again. Mauritius the big loser compared to CQ! 3-7-10 the first 3 countries in Africa.

Americas, since Netherland Antilles seemed nr 3 at CQ:

1 DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 367,35
2 GUATEMALA 288
3 NETHERLANDS ANTILLES 283
4 GUYANA 172
5 SURINAM 140
6 EL SALVADOR 140
7 ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA 125
8 ST. LUCIA 122
9 ST. KITTS & NEVIS 94
10 ST. VINCENT & THE GRENADINES 86
11 PUERTO RICO 18
12 PANAMA 7,67
13 TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 2

Netherland Antilles clear loser here. The winners Guyana who never even showed up in top 15 of non qualifieds at CQ, scored in 2 years at the UCI. Direct points to points comparison with Africa difficult. On one hand in the Americas the competition is bigger, the Dominican Republic, nr 1 here ,is 14th from 09-11, but on the other hand there are more races, many more, 14 in the Africa tour, 46 listed for the Americas tour. Source Wikipedia, might be wrong. Maybe in the end turns out to be comparable? Anyway, pole position Dominican Republic here.

Next Asia, nr 4+5 in the weighted CQ Ranking. Mmh, maybe I should weigh the UCI ranking per year too actually.

1 KYRGYZSTAN 536,66
2 HONG KONG, CHINA 524
3 MONGOLIA 418
4 SYRIA 216
5 THAILAND 191,66
6 PHILIPPINES 157
7 NORTH KOREA 101
8 CHINESE TAIPEI 47,98
9 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 41
10 BAHRAIN 11
11 SINGAPORE 8

Kyrgyzstan, the winner is Syria who takes 4th place, but fairly far back. Points wise again hard to compare the whole thing with the other tours.

Now let's see those 3 continental circuits with weighed years

Africa
1 ERITREA 3408,04
2 NAMIBIA 1099,29
3 LESOTHO 543
4 RWANDA 436
5 ANGOLA 420
6 LIBYA 329,93
7 IVORY COAST 226,96
8 ETHIOPIA 166,31
9 MAURITIUS 69
10 ZAMBIA 46
11 KENYA 45,03
12 SAO TOME & PRINCIPE 15

Top 3 doesn't change. Top 2 are the top 2 of all continents in the weighed CQ ranking, so those 2 seem clearly in:

ERITREA
NAMIBIA

Americas

1 DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 667,04
2 NETHERLANDS ANTILLES 658
3 GUATEMALA 486
4 SURINAM 420
5 EL SALVADOR 420
6 ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA 375
7 ST. LUCIA 366
8 GUYANA 344
9 ST. VINCENT & THE GRENADINES 258
10 ST. KITTS & NEVIS 94
11 PUERTO RICO 28
12 PANAMA 23,01
13 TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 2

The Netherlands Antilles overtake Guatemala, so qualify too.

But since we seem to need Guatemala, and it's fairly close. Let's add:

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
NETHERLAND ANTILLES
GUATEMALA

But then how to take Guatemala and not Lesotho in Africa?

Add LESOTHO!

Asia:

1 KYRGYZSTAN 1048,32
2 HONG KONG, CHINA 1041
3 MONGOLIA 839
4 SYRIA 331
5 THAILAND 457,32
6 PHILIPPINES 316
7 NORTH KOREA 101
8 CHINESE TAIPEI 107,96
9 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 77
10 BAHRAIN 33
11 SINGAPORE 16

Again, Kyrgyzstan in front, the 3 in the top clearly separate themselves from the rest.

KYRGYZSTAN
HONG KONG
MONGOLIA

in.

Europe:

Albania 162
Georgia 142
Azerbaijan 34
Malta 7.67

Weighed it comes out as:

Georgia 422
Albania 192
Azerbaijan 68
Malta 17

That means:

GEORGIA in!
ALBANIA as nr 2 and the Diaspora in RSF playing countries argument.

Then let's see the WT rankings if any country actually scored there

No, BUT, attention, Marc De Maar Rabobank for a long time, Quick step in 2011seems to be from the Netherlands Antilles originally. The UCI says he's from AHO, which I guess means Netherland Antilles.

So, according to purely sporting criteria we have

Eritrea
Namibia
Lesotho
Dominican Republic
Netherland Antilles
Guatemala
Kyrgyzstan
Hong Kong
Lesotho
Georgia

10 new teams, add Albania, not that weak according to those rankings, plus the high likelyhood of players with Albanian roots in the game.

Then the next problem:

2 of these cycling federations are not independent countries, Netherland Antilles and Hong Kong.

Do we follow the UN and add countries, or do we follow the UCI as the governing body of cycling and add federations?

So it would be either 9 or 11 new countries/federations.

OR we could actually keep it simple. Does anybody really want a year apepost with apeulations to see who might deserve access to RSF?

Let's sort of make criterias
Ah, new post for that one.

[Robyklebt]

Sensible criterias for inclusion in RSF according to Robyklebt with the full support of his boss, Petit Singe:

First, federation vs countries thing needs to be decided.
Then:

2 ways to qualify
1: Countries with users that play RSF. Liechtenstein is in thanks to that, rightly so. With RSF taking over the world soon hopefully other countries might qualify. Albania right now would indirectly qualify, thanks to Kosovo. We had at least one player originally from Kosovo, don't know if Ronson too, don't really care either, it's enough to know that the probability to get a Kosovar or Albanian is relatively high, IMO Albania qualifies.
2: Sporting criteria.

Those should be more than arriving 7th in the Asia tour or 12 in the Americas tour, 8 in the Africa Tour.

- WT points for a country=automatic qualification. Nobody right now.
- A cyclist in a WT team In 2012 Eritrea might qualify for that, depending on who joins GreenEdge, (Goss for example might give them enough points) Netherland Antilles would qualify right now. Depending on the fed vs country thing.
- Repeated relative success in a continental circuit: Relative... arriving 10th in Europe is good, in Africa less. Anyway, Eritrea qualifies right now. +
- Winner of the individual continental circuit. A Namibian won in 09 Ithink, might qualify still.
- WC or Olympic road medals nobody right now (and don't mean in 1960 or something...
- Good showings in WC or Olympics (nobody right now)
- Good showings in European races like Avenir, Valle d'Aosta and similar races, U23 or similar.

Then maybe

- Winners of continental championships or continental games: Right now that would give Hongkong, Asian games 06+10 gold medal, Domincan Republic Gold at 2007 Pan American games, Namibia, African championship 08, Kyrgyzstan repeated gold in TT at Asian championships the ticket.

With that we'd have

- Albania
- Eritrea
- Netherland Antilles*
- Namibia

for sure

If the continental championships/games are added

- Hongkong*
- Kyrgyzstan
- Dominican Republic

let's forget the rest, Lesotho and Mongolia, Guatemala and Georgia, let them get real results.

[NoPikouze]

Fascinating

I like to keep things simple

[auxilium torino]

I think that, the criteria "user then play RSf" is wrong, then, we are an expansion game; for 2 year RSF had only German and French as languages, with this criteria you must not take Italia, Nederland or other land, for example...But,now, we have 5 more languages.
Why not, this time, we antecede the new players.take us more intresting federation/countries in game.
I think, most of the RSFplayers, plaing this game, while is Real; then, my points of wiew is, we must set cycling federation as criteria points.
Naturally, the UCI classment of the last years is another important criteria for the expansion draft, and , like Captain Ahab say, last but not least, really intresting this cycling freaks nations.
Yes, Guatemala is not one the strongest cycling land in the world, but, their federation is good, their Homepage are better then Mexiko or Romania for example, and the whole land appears to be a CyclingFreaks nation...we are the freaks game,and i think,normaly we must say:Welcome Guatemala, this nation is part of us!
we are much more players then for 2 years, let expande us, let take 4, 6 or 10 new nations/federations

[auxilium torino]

May be shoul d be intresting to follow this rider:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Choi Ki Ho (traditional Chinese:蔡其皓) born on 5 May 1991 in Hong Kong, is a cyclist.

Choi is widely considered the best road racer Hong Kong has produced in recent years. He spent three months training at the World Cycling Centre in Aigle, Switzerland, in 2010 and won the one-day Tour of Berne. He was also the best-placed Asian rider in the under-23 road race at the 2010 UCI Road World Championships in Melbourne, Australia.

Coach Shen Jinkang praised the talented Choi, who won a World Cup gold medal in the madison at the age of 19 when competing in Beijing two years ago. "He is fully committed to the sport and never complains about the tough training," Shen said. "It's not easy to find this quality in a young rider."[1]
[edit] 2011 Tour of Korea

Choi Ki Ho won the Tour de Korea at the age of 19 on 24 April 2011, becoming the youngest cyclist to do so.[2] He completed the nine-stage race, a total distance of 1,335.9 kilometers with a cumulative time of 33 hours 54 minutes 45 seconds. Austrian Markus Eibegger of Tabriz Petrochemical Team was 29 seconds behind, followed by American Dugan Williams of Sanofi Aventis, a professional team, clocking 33:55:22.

[Robyklebt]

What about Netherlands Antilles? De Maar 10th in a Vuelta stage

I think that, the criteria "user then play RSf" is wrong, then, we are an expansion game; for 2 year RSF had only German and French as languages, with this criteria you must not take Italia, Nederland or other land, for example..

Coudn't you REALLY find a dumber argument?

Ok, you pissed me of with the stupdity of that argument

Put in Albania and only Albania.

[NoPikouze]

What about Netherlands Antilles? De Maar 10th in a Vuelta stage

Aruba seceded in 1986 as a separate country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and the rest of the Netherlands Antilles was dissolved on 10 October 2010, resulting in two new constituent countries, Curaçao and Sint Maarten, with the other islands joining the Netherlands as "special municipalities", officially public bodies.

The name 'Netherlands Antilles' is still sometimes used to indicate the Caribbean islands which are part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Clueless Ape, everybody knows this... That's why I'm saying Curaçao since forever...

[Robyklebt]

Curaçao is neither a federation nor an independent state! No chance, clearly!

[NoPikouze]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of ... #Countries

100% independant

PS: http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-divers- ... 17816.html

[iBanesto]

Whatever you call it, it doesn't deserve a spot because there is only De Maar and he is practically Dutch, born in Assen. He wins the NCs there on one leg, that's how tough the carribean opposition is.

[Robyklebt]

Even though the referendums held in the early 1990s resulted in a position in favour of retaining the Netherlands Antilles, the arrangement continued to be an unhappy one. Between June 2000 and April 2005, each island of the Netherlands Antilles had a new referendum on its future status. The four options that could be voted on were the following:
Flag of the Netherlands Antilles after Aruba seceded in 1986.

closer ties with the Netherlands
remaining within the Netherlands Antilles
autonomy as a country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands (status aparte)
independence

Of the five islands, Sint Maarten and Curaçao voted for status aparte, Saba and Bonaire voted for closer ties to the Netherlands, and Sint Eustatius voted to stay within the Netherlands Antilles.

Ha!

They might have a cycling federation though... so ok, since De Maar is from Curaçao it seems, no to the Netherland Antilles, but yes to Curaçao!

[NoPikouze]

Read the next line, it is not about the 2005 referendum...

[Robyklebt]

Pff, you finally conceded defeat in the chat....

Ape kills Sheep. Lamb chops for everybody.

[auxilium torino]

All 41 members of PASO are expected to compete. The Netherlands Antilles Olympic Committee, which had planned to continue functioning after the dissolution of the Netherlands Antilles, is expected to have its membership withdrawn by the IOC Executive Committee at the IOC session of June 2011. However, it will take steps to allow athletes to compete at the 2011 Pan American Games.[24]

[captain ahab]

it is not really important for me,to get some new nations or not..

but anyway,i got one more point that speaks for guatemala...

in 2010 panajachel/guatemala was hostimg the 18th annual cycle messenger world championships(CMWC)...ok that has nothing to do with the uci and the all that official/professional cycling-crap at all,but it sure has somethingto do with a certain ammount of cycling-crazyness...

here's a little video of the main race...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9iSEH4h ... re=related

wished i was there ...and it seems like that was the very first time ever,that a CMWC took place during real life traffic-crazy(i was taking part at the CMWCs in zürich,budapest and kopenhagen.but that always was taking place at areas where official traffic was not banned during the event...)


but like i said,not really important,and probably roby`s more official approach(using uci rankings and such..) does make more sense...

[Robyklebt]

Point is more that I don't feel we need 10 new nations just to get 10 each time. Eritrea deserves one. Albania for the potential users, but here Aux seems to have a problem with that. Ok, let's not get any new nations and forget about it.

[auxilium torino]

i watch in moment live WM U23, and i see a strong eritrea rider...Roby is right, Eritrea must come in RSF!

[Ronson]

Thanks again for your effort Ape.
I would appreciate that Eritrea and Albania riders get a chance to carry on his/her profession at RSF!

Please Buhmann, do something about the brutal injustic!

[team fl]

Just to keep the question about possible new nations up (sorted by priority). I see two main nations that almost have to be and several others that could be added (3 main nations per continental tour ranking not added yet).

"Have to be added" nations:

- Eritrea: UCI Africa Tour Ranking 2011 riders ranked on place 2, 7, 9, 11, 27, ... Nation ranking on 2 (!) behind Marocco
- Georgia: UCI Europe Tour Nation Ranking 2011 with 140 points on place 33

Other (Europe):

- Azerbaijan: UCI Europe Tour Nation Ranking 2011 with 10 points on place 37
- Albania: UCI Europe Tour Nation Ranking 2011 with 8 points on place 38
- Malta: UCI Europe Tour Nation Ranking 2011 with 1,67 points on place 39 (last place)

Others (Africa):

- Namiba: UCI Africa Tour Ranking 2011 rider ranked on place 17, UCI Africa Tour Nation Ranking on place 7
- Angola: two riders in UCI Africa Tour Ranking 2011 top50, UCI Africa Tour Nation Ranking on place 8
- Leshoto: two riders in UCI Africa Tour Ranking 2011 top50, UCI Africa Tour Nation Ranking on place 8

Others (Asia):
- Syria: Well, politically difficult, but: No. 7 in the UCI Asian Tour Nation Ranking 2011
- Kyrgyzstan: UCI Asian Tour Nation Ranking 2011 place 10
- Thailand: UCI Asian Tour Nation Ranking 2011 place 11

Others (America):
- Surinam: UCI America Tour Nation Ranking place 13
- El Salvador: UCI America Tour Nation Ranking place 13
- Antigua and Barbuda: UCI America Tour Nation Ranking place 16

Others (Oceania):
- all ranked nations already added (AUS, NZ)

[Robyklebt]

Ah, but Aux doesn't want Albania, for personal racist reasons I suspect, and insists on Hongkong, unless his 2 demans are fulfilled he will oppose any entry, so let's just forget everything here and save ourselves a bunch of boring posts for nothing.

Against any new countries