Division system

[Robyklebt]

It's time to rethink the division system
D1
D2
D3
D4
D5
D6
D6b

What advantages do the high divisions have?
-Riding in group one almost always.
-Allowed to ride Cat 5+6 classics
-Sold riders appear first in the high Div

Other than that? Somebody knows any? Can't remember any other advantages, talking about game play, not pride, now.

What advantages do lower divisions have?

- Better name geben in D5
- No restrictive 50 day rule in D5
- Can reset. And change the team name without having to pay.
- Easier opponents in group 2

I completely agree that D5 has to have certain advantages, that you have to build in certain safeguards, difficulties for old succesful teams, D1-4, and supported most of these difficulties for the high divisions. But does it still make sense? not really. All the advantages for the high divisions would stay if we didn't have divisions.

What would RSF look without divisions?


Group 1? Develop a formula that creates a ranking, that will decide who is in what group. Nr of actual points the most important, but nr of eternal points and nr of RSF Championships (D1 champion so far, new name RSF Champion, just the team with the highest points gets the title) as well. Would even be a better system than now in certain ways.
Cat 5+6 one day races? Another formula, this one includes the nr of classic wins too, to qualify for it.
Sold riders appear first to the teams of either the actual points ranking, or according to the ranking used to decide who rides in what group.

The advantages for the good teams would stay virtually stay the same.

Why have this division system that only complicates things? Then create different rules for the different divisions? Let's just play the game from one division, the good teams will stay on top, and we won't have to deal with the hypocrisy of the poor D5 teams that need every help possible to reach teh top, same rules for everybody, let's have a real even system and see who'll be on top.

Scared of it? Let's keep the system as it is to have excuses that some teams are not good enough to reach D1? They need help, more help, subsidies, free riders whatever? But still are at a disadvantage? Let's see how they fare in a no division competetion, fuck the honour of being in D1, fuck serious teambuilding, let's just all go 1-1 with the same rules for everybody and see who'll end up on top.


Abolish the divisions.

[Luna]

The divisions allow to have a bad month without being relegated to field 2 immediately. You can drop to last position in Div 1 or 2. Then you're relegated to the next lower div and get a secnod chance to perform well.

On the other hand one single accidentaly good month of a newby isn't enough to be listed on ultimate top of the whole RSF-world. You still need to confirm your performance to show that you are a real freak, worthy of disturbing the elite in their top races.


But of course we need more div restrictions for race entries. Maybe we need more teams to install more races on different levels. Let's wait for Spain, Portugal and Great Britain/U.S. to come and overwhelm us.

[Pirkio]

Division have no sense this is true you just need a strong team than if you are in 4 or in 1 nothing change.. But new player need time for learn the game! And time for start build team

[flockmastoR]

its enough to see field 2 riders in the top5 of the riders ranking! then there will be field 2 Teams winning 7Stages with a 89climber with no opponent in a Vuelta(2) and winning GK, Green and Mountain Jersey + MW and is then in the top 10 of all teams? or top 30. Thats of course not the place where this team should be. Or should it???

[Pirkio]

Big tours can be played only by the licensed players, so there aren't not much possibility to have a situation of this kind if not with a great ass field 2 races are considered not important for this are played from begginners for avoid they waste the field 1 race! And they can make experience. Maybe we can put a filter for avoid the situation but for me field 2 is very important for the begginners

[flockmastoR]

hm just look at the statistic from team saco banc, last vuelta, and only because they are all licence doesnt say thats not complete meaningless success...

[Pirkio]

yes, ok, he had an easy win but i don't understand why begginners have to try to compete with adler, petit, you, aux, hansa, jps, ecc ecc ecc ecc ecc. If someone have an idea for create a filter would be cool for sure i don't disagree with the post but just prefere don't play in a big group of 22 team with begginners, this is better for me and for sure is better for them

[flockmastoR]

yeah but thats exactly what i say too, one lucky tour in field 2 and you have to compete with the best? dont know, but the system now with good teams in field 2 classics because of lack of time to ride more than 15races a month is true not great

[socca team]

First of all, i'm wondering how much time the Ape stays on RSF per day ? 12hours or more ? It's always hard for me to read all his ideas but most of the time it's a pleasure. Tonight i had time and it was on a subject i'm thinking about a few months ago, so i decided to tell my thoughts (but maybe some have already had the idea before sorry if it's the case)

Well, no division is a good idea but we can also keep them (I come back later on my little idea).
Anyway, in the two hypothesis, the first thing is to create one race per day for teams who have run in their RSF's life less than 10 races (i think it's the time to understand "well" the game).

Then, we could take Roby's idea but we need to build a good formula and it might be difficult to create a formula which will be accepted by everybody. Indeed, some would say that we have to subserve more or less actual points, others would say we must subserve more or less eternal points etc..

But it's true that the actual system isn't so good because groups aren't well balanced (i know that's why the second group don't earn 100% of a normal money race). Then comes what i propose, don't worry nothing terrific :
I'm going to take a example to be sure you will understand my not so good english ^^
Let's say 26 teams are subscribed for a race: 4 teams which belongs to D1, 3 teams which belongs from D2, 5 teams which belongs from D3, 7 teams belongs from D4 and 7 teams from D5 for example
In actual system we make 2 groups:
- Group 1: 4 D1 + 3 D2 + 5 D3 + the best team from D4
- Group 2: the 6 others from D4 + 7 D5

With my idea: we could make 2 groups:
- Group 1: 2 D1 + 1 D2 + 3 D3 + 4 D4 + 3 D6
- Group 2: 2 D1 + 2 D2 + 2 D3 + 3 D5 + 4 D6

So we have 2 groups well-balanced which would have the same prize money at the end of the race. I propose this stuff because as the Ape said I don't see much advantages to be in div 1.
I already know that some people would say that D5 and D6 can not develop their teams by playing against D1 but i can say the same for the poor D4 (in my example) in the actual system who has to fight against 4 teams from D1 + 3 teams from D2 and 5 teams from D3.

[Luna]

We thought about something like that once. But we came to the conculsion that it wouldn't be fun if (for example) all the cilmbers teams get to field 1 while all the sprinters teams get to field 2. That wouldn't be balanced.


My vision would rather be to prevent field splits. Don't know how. Maybe create enough races very day, so that the lower Divs get more races where they are allowed to compete by themselves. Or create an enhanced registration system that just doesn't allow to exceed the number of teams over 22 or so. Then too there should be always another race on offer if one is denied entry to the desired one. I can't give any further details to this, because i don't know them either.

(i know that's why the second group don't earn 100% of a normal money race).

They do earn 100% of the regular prize money. It's only the ranking points that are cut down a bit for 2nd field.

[socca team]

We thought about something like that once. But we came to the conculsion that it wouldn't be fun if (for example) all the cilmbers teams get to field 1 while all the sprinters teams get to field 2. That wouldn't be balanced.

Ok i see. Thanks for your message Luna

They do earn 100% of the regular prize money. It's only the ranking points that are cut down a bit for 2nd field.

Damned I want to go back to low divisions

[olmania]

Another Idea, just like that, for the form of the divisions (no time or ideas to develop the modalities/advantages or disadvantages).

We've a vertical system system, with a regular number of teams in the divisions.

What about a pyramidal system, with smaller divisions ?

D1
D2A - D2B
D3A- D3B- D3C-D3D
and so on ...

10 teams per div. 5UP/5DOWN every month, or 3/4/3 or 4/2/4 ...
Repartitition in the div because of the points of the teams:
Ex:
20 teams have to go in D2A & B. Classification by points on the moment of change season. in D2A: teams N°1-3-5-7-9 ... in D2B: teams N° 2-4-6-8-10 ...
Idem, for the 40 teams of D3.
And so on ...

Big turn-over, direct opponents, challenge to fight in the division more interesting ...
And probably disadvantages as: inequal divisions because of inactive teams for a month, or strenght of some teams. But this is the risk of the 'lotery' because of the classification when the season changes.

No time to continue the reflexion, but if someone is interested, he could find many developments and good points to this idea.