sprint coincidence

[NoPikouze]

The system is not perfect I guess.
But by reading this thread, I dont really see the proposal as an improvement. It's just better for the best sprinters. Is that more realistic ?
Absolutely not. Whereas in reality you have many many factors influencing the outcome... length of the race, position in the sprint, waves, barreers, dayform etc... In rsf we don't have so much randomness... Is a -6 possibility to simulate all that really too much ?
Of course there could be better ways to simulate those things. But until they are here, I guess we will have a "global randomness system"


Oh, and finishing 3+5 in a sprint isnt really a reason to complain...

[Zentaron]

No, FL, that's a fault. The chances are NOT higher for a 95 against two 92 in the same team.

@Elaska And finishing always 3 and 5 or in my case most times only 3 or 5, cause i use most times only one sprinter, against teams with two sprinters who never do a single km because they have no chance is a reason to complain. I want to win, not to be positioned.
What's wrong if those teams with a 93 , a 94 or, as it happens more and more, with two sprinters ride 20 or 30 km in the beginning to control the group? So the one with the 95+ has to ride the most anyway, but he is disburdened and has more fit riders for the deciding situations.
But they deny it.
And a nice effect of this proposal is, that they now have what they want, they can't win, so they have what they think they always had. Nothing changed then.

[team fl]

No, FL, that's a fault. The chances are NOT higher for a 95 against two 92 in the same team.

Really? Why? Do you count these three as the only sprinters in the peloton? I don't get it. I am open for correction, but it seems I am "standing on a tube"

[Zentaron]

More possible backwheels = more chances to get a one the starts early.
The option that A starts early for B and the option that B starts early for A.

The 95 has only one option: Take a wheel (and that would probably in the most cases not be one of these two, cause the chance to fail is high if you don't know how the one with the two sprints cause he always does the same) and hope that it was the right choice.

[team fl]

More possible backwheels = more chances to get a one the starts early.
The option that A starts early for B and the option that B starts early for A.

The 95 has only one option: Take a wheel (and that would probably in the most cases not be one of these two, cause the chance to fail is high if you don't know how the one with the two sprints cause he always does the same) and hope that it was the right choice.

Count it through. I still think a victory of the 95 is more probable. The 92 still have to compete with other sprinters that may take their backwheel from them (93, 94 sprinters). The 95 sprinter only has to get ONE wheel out of the 90+ sprinters to be better than both of the 92.

And even if the 92 sprinters pull each other, there is the chance that the 95 sprinter gets a backwheel, even a better one, and wins.

Was I have seen it, mostly it was the managers bad decisions who cause a 95 to lose against two 92 of the same team. Or pure luck/bad luck.

[Zentaron]

Or pure luck/bad luck.

And what do we talk about here?

[team fl]

Or pure luck/bad luck.

And what do we talk about here?

We are talking about probability. Bad luck for me is that you have a backwheel, that does not sprint at all or at 50m. whatever.

I still see no reason, why a 95 victory is not more probable.

But to come to a conclusion: I don't think that the sprint coincidence has to be newly set, because - according to my experience - it works out pretty well in my eyes.

[Zentaron]

Yes, the probability of luck/bad luck.

And as you said: There is luck involved in getting a wheel, there is luck involved in getting a wheel that is not in yours, there is luck involved in getting a wheel that starts early. And there is luck involved in getting a 0 or a -6. Too much luck needed!

(And there is also luck needed in surviving a single 5 against the hill bastards. And if i do, i have less power than them and my 95 is nothing worth against their 90-92.)

[team fl]

Yes, the probability of luck/bad luck.

I did not mean the malus or bonus in the context of my posting. but yes, this is also bad luck of course.

Edith thinks, this could be a nice topic for a master thesis in mathematics

[captain ahab]

just a little "senfspende" from my side..

do we wanna have it more realistic ?

then we have to value the sprinttrain more(aka a team where you have at least have 3 riders that start sprinting before the topsprinter goes,with all that certain backwheel boni...)...give the bachwheel gamblers their random chances...but give them sprinterteams who have their treno more bonus...make it harder for single parasite sprinters to get a backwheel from a team that has a whole sprinting train...and make them 95+ sprinters sprint earlier,but give them a better chance to win races when they sprint early-but make them bleed,when they think sprinting at 50 or 100m is enough just because they have a good skill...


good night!

[avesano]

Hi all, i'm new in this game but hired a (little gun ^^) sprinter (91). I'd like to "optimize" my choices when I sprint... I know some parameters which have an impotance on the result (and Nopikouze explained me notions like the beginning of the sprint, the health, random...) but I'm not sure I know all of them. Does it exist a summary of these parameters and calculus associated (with examples) ?

Thanx for your precious help.

See you on stage

Summer team.

[Neutrogena]

Sprints in fields with 6-8 sprinters (>88) are actually pretty ok, the results are pretty realistic there.

It's more problematic when you got a good sprinter in a really crappy field with only 5 or even less sprinters (pretty much every GT) because it's really a matter of luck whether you get a wheel or not. And if you bring 2 sprinters noone wants to work with you anyway.

And those sprints with 10 or more 94+ sprinters are pure luck.

[Zentaron]

Kleiner Einwurf: Danke Buhmann, eine komplette Tour versaut wegen eines mittlerweile völlig hinfälligen Zufallssystems, welches nur nicht geändert wird, weil der Spielbetreiber sich in dem Metier nicht auskennt und es als Stiefkind behandelt.

[Buhmann]

Tour versaut, genau. Weil du jetzt nicht soviele Etappen gewonnen hast wie du wolltest oder was?

Dein Vorschlag hier zu Beginn ist fast genauso implementiert seit Ewigkeiten.

Und habe eben keine Lust das Stiefmütterlich zu behandeln. Den Sprint muss man dann von Grund auf neu aufziehen, nicht irgendwelche paar Zahlen ändern nur weil sie dir nicht gefallen.

[Zentaron]

Die Reaktion war so klar und vorhersehbar wie das, was drin steht, falsch ist.

Und seit wann reg ich mich über ausbleibende Siege aus? Es geht mir nicht um schnöde Siege, es geht mir um langfristige Folgen wie der Kampf ums Grüne Trikot bei einer Tour wie momentan z.B. Eneco.