What's the priority?

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luques
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What's the priority?

Post by luques » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:04 am

Let's see what the community thinks.

Don't ask for no flash version, we are already working on that.
Neither for sprint improvements (as I don't know at the moment what to improve anyway).
Neither for fair play things.

Was thinking the div prizes were something nice but reaction was a bit cold I would say, so maybe there's something I am missing? Pave Bug then?

Let me know!

kunske
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by kunske » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 am

a option for the sprint. Go right but if blocked go left, Go left but if blocked go right. S

omething like this because sometimes the sprinter stays in the same line and he will not follow the wheel in front him with go right and go left. So he will be blocked in the same line because of the leadout.

Maybe make the sprint 500m longer or something so you need a good flat rider for the first part what will count. Something as in real sprint. That a good flart rider needs to keep the train in front of the rest. Looks like a nice option. But don't know if that is possible in a option or something.

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by High Flyer » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:57 pm

kunske wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 am
a option for the sprint. Go right but if blocked go left, Go left but if blocked go right. S

Something like this because sometimes the sprinter stays in the same line and he will not follow the wheel in front him with go right and go left. So he will be blocked in the same line because of the leadout.
100% this is needed.
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm

luques wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:04 am
Let's see what the community thinks.

Don't ask for no flash version, we are already working on that.
Neither for sprint improvements (as I don't know at the moment what to improve anyway).
Neither for fair play things.

Was thinking the div prizes were something nice but reaction was a bit cold I would say, so maybe there's something I am missing? Pave Bug then?

Let me know!
kunske wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 am
a option for the sprint. Go right but if blocked go left, Go left but if blocked go right. S

omething like this because sometimes the sprinter stays in the same line and he will not follow the wheel in front him with go right and go left. So he will be blocked in the same line because of the leadout.

Maybe make the sprint 500m longer or something so you need a good flat rider for the first part what will count. Something as in real sprint. That a good flart rider needs to keep the train in front of the rest. Looks like a nice option. But don't know if that is possible in a option or something.
Luques nearly said all except sprint and you talk about sprint ?

Anyway.

1) Forms. Several months ago that appears as nearly OK to implant various curve of forms, and then nothing.
I'll add but it is only my point can be nice if we add a random daily bonus/malus form. Let's go further and say that could be great if the impact on each skills are different as in PCM. But not priority as curve form.

2) TT and TTT.
TT : Often ininteresting, too much predictable. TT will gain in interest if TT is add to flatskill instead to substitue it.
TTT : percentage as TT instead of the current version isn't possible ?

3) The mountain/flat balance which advantage as hell mountain skill currently. And influence all other things at the end (cobbles, sprint, TT)

4) Divisions and transfert market. Both are related imo.
Divisions : Not necessary to have so much division for the moment.
Market : some limit that make we can't have a lot of combi of skills, but for what ? Free 60 mountain / 65 flat.

5) The training system. Don't really know how, but can be nice if each races a rider do can have an influence on his training chance (type of race, prestige) else if that give him XP.
For example, Riding MSR can give +0.03% to train flat and +0.03% to train sprint, when ride a mountain stage of Tirenno give +0.04% for mountain training. Something like that.
Paquito have the skills, but Taiga had the heart. Praise Taiga !
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Pokemon Club » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:00 pm

Ah and top of top pritority is to work on mailing. How can you hope to have some people comeback when the game never try to fish again some people by mail in 10 years. 10 years without without any communication...that is amazingly crazy. If it is because of the server you can't get the mail list of players, change it.
Paquito have the skills, but Taiga had the heart. Praise Taiga !
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:17 am

I don't really know what exactly you're looking for...

I know nothing about programming, you're doing the non-flash version now. So would that mean you're re-writing everything racescreen related, so changes in races would have to be written twice? Other stuff too?

But the priority would be: Non-flash, concentrate on that. Ok, you want something else to work on from time to time, getting bored doing the same thing? Big? small?

1) The pavé bug you mentioned yourself
2) The steep climb non sieb bug (which I had completely forgotten until FL reminded me of it, so don't really know much about it...)
3) Display bug in transfers. Riders bought directly, with the "buy immediately thing" are not shown in transfers. there's probably lots of examples around, one I know is Cheik Faye of Big Donkey. IN his transfer history he's only sold.
4) Other bugs.

So bugs I say, I'm actually a big fan of having it bugfree too. Advantage here, no discussions needed really.

If you want something slightly bigger, but still not earthshaking.

5) Weather: Used to be the capital of the country we ride in. Then something with the site that was used went wrong, couldn't use it anymore, don't remember what, and for a while we had lots of rain all the time. Then some temporary solution was found. I don't actually know what it is. Is it the old system, take the weather the designer puts in? OR something else? Real weather again somehow would be nice. Right now IMO we don't have that, at least during the Andes it was always colder than it should be (and probably a bit too much rain as well)
6) Lowest starting values for riders: An old favorite of mine. Why is the lowest value for every skill 46, except 43 for sprint? 43-82 in sprint, why such a huge difference? Could think about downgrading the top-value for sprint too actually... but ok, I'll just argue the low skills. Put everything to 46. At every age. Now: 21-23 lowest value 46, 43 for sprint. Older riders from 24, lowest value 42, 40 for sprint. Make it 46 for every skill for every age.
7) STarting values for 22+23 year olds. Right now they are useless. For climbers, 73 max at 21, 76 at 22, 77 at 23. (Then a jump to 82 for 24 year olds, from therer +1 until 27.) And having higher skills they are more expensive than 21 year olds too.
This is something that probably would need endless discussions, but making 22+23 year olds more attractive seems logic. For climbers
73-56 with 21,
77-58 with 22. So normal no risk training for mountain, +2 flat, somebody who is in a hurry to get a good climber can get that one. He will most likely be more expensive than the 73-56 with 21, but that's good too.
80-58 with 23 So again the guaranteed mountain trainings the other ones get in training, the last one at 22 is slightly below 100%, so don't get that too.
Here just the mountain-flat combi, of course there's the mountain - TT combi, the mountain-sprint combi, and then all the non-mountain riders. Would need some numbers finding. But IMO would be a good thing, right now the 22+23 year olds are useless, especially 23. Only newcomers that don't know what they're doing yet will get fooled by that and spend money for a third rate climber. And since those riders are really only worth their price before the first training.... The way they are now they only hurt the game, don't help anybody.
8) STatistics: Make classic wins searchable on the team and riders pages, Right now it's cat 4+... and you get all the Pais Vasco stages too. Second+third place classics on the other hand are searchable. Add races ridden in the statistic page somewhere, not only in the rider page.
9) User numbers. We've had 7000 thousand discussion of why people leave the game, why people don't join, very interesting theories, from "multis", "too difficult", "too hard for newbies" "no innovations" to my personal favorite, the one I like to push "the sprint system sucks" (I think it had some influence for some people..). But usually we ignore the probably biggest factor. The free races, free points licence system. Used to be without licence you get a number (10?) of free races per month. (I don't really remember if you could earn more at the time too, or that was it) We had a decent number of teams, probably still slightly growing, very likely a pretty high number of multies. Once that was changed, IMO the exodus really began. What to do? Great mailing lists, yeah... Seems the system right now simply isn't that good. Earn race points by riding mind numbing short races...Seems simple enough, invest some time and you can ride every day, but clearly it isn't really working. But we can't go back to free races either I guess, the game has to get money from somewhere. I'm not only not a programmer, I have no real clue about Internet advertisment either... more users, ad. income goes up, ok, but is it worth giving out more free races? Sort of a mix system, a number of free races earn more by winning stupid short races... ? Get people to buy the licence, yes, but how? I'm generally a difficult customer, don't like paying for games on the internet, here's the only one I've ever payed for... it's laughably cheap and the game is incredibly good. Too bad the users are generally mentally retarded and assholes, but well, the game itself is good. Can't really go cheaper either. Really don't know how to get more people to buy the licence. Shaming them a bit? Show who has the licence and who hasn't again, used to be the case in the early early days, then in one of the new designs disappeared. Bring that back, so we can pressure and shame those without licence!
Anyway, this is a rather important point I think. Not one I think I can really contribute much, (but know enough that mailing lists are not the answer...) but get some guys with some business sense and discuss some sort of business plan, business model with them. I remember FL repeatedly telling Buhmann to do something along this line, offering his worthless help too, maybe he still has ideas. Or others. How to get more people to play, how to get more money in. If not, do some mailing lists...

Smallish things, if you want the big things, the Donkey can help too.

10) New sprint. OK, you said no to that, claiming you don't know what exacly, read the Donkey thread from last year.
11) New finance system. Away from the buy sell, in with contracts. Required number of riders depending on division 17-20 for D1, 14-17 D2, 12-14 D3, 10-12 D4 or something like that. 2-5 year contracts. Intelligent (somehow) riders. You don't buy a rider anymore, you offer him a contract and then pay his salary regardless of races raced. Offer includes his role. future leader, immediate leader, no 2 sprinter, helper, etc. Rider accepts the best contract, factors obviously the salary, but also the composition of the team (2 climbers, 26+28 in the team, future leader offered, seems far away, that's a minus), position of the team in the game and of course the offered role. Financing done partly through money coming from the position in the game (like Luques proposes now with the Div money, now it's pointless IMO, with a contract system it wouldn't be, and much higher of course) but for balance purposes (strength of teams that line up in races) would have to partly stay from races I think. Resigning of riders, signing away riders from other teams, 15 days before the contract runs out, offers can be made, of course same system, plus here the rider takes into consideration how well the promises given in his prior contract were kept. GC leader, didn't race a single stage race.... would probably need a twice as good financial offer to stay. GC leader, Zafzaf in my team before the Giro... rode a lot won a lot, team in D1 (I think) would take a lot of money to get him away from me. And an advantage for the current team, he gets to know what the rider would need to stay 100%... or he gets one single chance to up his offer if the rider tells him that he would accept another offer right now. Riders decide on the 25th, stay in the team til the last day of the month, OR till the stage race they are currently riding finishes. Complicated topic, but the Donkey has been thinking on that one for probably 10 years....
12) New helping, energy system, tried that under Buhmann, nothign usable came out of it, time for another try. Senseless that leaders arrive to the Poggio with 1000 energy... senseless that helpers lose lots of energy every km in rain protecting the leader while he stays at 1000... But ok, another complicated topic.

Fear Luq is not really interested in 10-12.. .but ok, bugfree first is better anyway.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:22 am

Oh

Some more things, well one

13) Get more people for translations, guides etc. Small thing again, but seems a fair bit of the info is outdated, get some guys to put everything up to date.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

kunske
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by kunske » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:06 am

Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm
luques wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:04 am
Let's see what the community thinks.

Don't ask for no flash version, we are already working on that.
Neither for sprint improvements (as I don't know at the moment what to improve anyway).
Neither for fair play things.

Was thinking the div prizes were something nice but reaction was a bit cold I would say, so maybe there's something I am missing? Pave Bug then?

Let me know!
kunske wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 am
a option for the sprint. Go right but if blocked go left, Go left but if blocked go right. S

omething like this because sometimes the sprinter stays in the same line and he will not follow the wheel in front him with go right and go left. So he will be blocked in the same line because of the leadout.

Maybe make the sprint 500m longer or something so you need a good flat rider for the first part what will count. Something as in real sprint. That a good flart rider needs to keep the train in front of the rest. Looks like a nice option. But don't know if that is possible in a option or something.
Luques nearly said all except sprint and you talk about sprint ?

Luques didn't know what to change on sprint. so gave him some options. For the rest nothing.

luques
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by luques » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:01 pm

Keep writing things, I am reading.

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by scorpsche » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:32 pm

- better graphics in general
- https
- iOS support (probably comes with non-Flash)
- introduce more management parts like construct buildings, buy/build/optimize bicycles
- automatic prevent of fp rules violations for team attacks => free cycles of fpc can be used to work on real cases
- finetune mechanics especially pave and give aerodynamic drafting better effect
- ...
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Beitrag von Robyklebt » Do Jul 19, 2018 7:16 pm
You clearly are a very very sick person."

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:02 pm

Forgot 2 things

Reform the World Championships. Maybe less teams for U24.... half of them don't have enough riders, half of them usually end up not riding. But ok, can stay, doesn't matter. More important Tougher rules for riders to be nominated. D1-3 only (possible exception for the national champion) To make the race more interesting, instead of x nations that start with almost identical superteams, a bunch of 73-80 to 77-80 for a hilly parcours, nobody heard of half those guys before because they are in some inactive teams. Plus/or a minimum amount of races raced. 50 or so... Or a mix, D1 riders need 20 D2 35, D3 50 races.

National Championships and nationalities.
Add Eritrea, Ethiopia and Albania to the nationalities.
Nations where nobody showed up the preceding NC, don't get a NC.
Nations where more than 50% of qualified riders are from the same team don't get an NC
Nations that don't have at least 10 riders from at least 4 different teams don't get an NC.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by team fl » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:35 pm

At lot has been written already. What is clearly lacking in my opinion are updated and comprehensive guidelines for the game, ingame. Incl. points and price tables, fairplay rules, etc. And correct translation! Find people you can delegate that to.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Golden State Team » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:48 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm
5) The training system. Don't really know how, but can be nice if each races a rider do can have an influence on his training chance (type of race, prestige) else if that give him XP.
For example, Riding MSR can give +0.03% to train flat and +0.03% to train sprint, when ride a mountain stage of Tirenno give +0.04% for mountain training. Something like that.
Great idea! Riders who don't ride a single race but train will get -0,04% or something. Really like that idea!
team fl wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:35 pm
At lot has been written already. What is clearly lacking in my opinion are updated and comprehensive guidelines for the game, ingame. Incl. points and price tables, fairplay rules, etc. And correct translation! Find people you can delegate that to.
Also an important point!
Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:17 am
9) User numbers. We've had 7000 thousand discussion of why people leave the game, why people don't join, very interesting theories, from "multis", "too difficult", "too hard for newbies" "no innovations" to my personal favorite, the one I like to push "the sprint system sucks" (I think it had some influence for some people..). But usually we ignore the probably biggest factor. The free races, free points licence system. Used to be without licence you get a number (10?) of free races per month. (I don't really remember if you could earn more at the time too, or that was it) We had a decent number of teams, probably still slightly growing, very likely a pretty high number of multies. Once that was changed, IMO the exodus really began. What to do? Great mailing lists, yeah... Seems the system right now simply isn't that good. Earn race points by riding mind numbing short races...Seems simple enough, invest some time and you can ride every day, but clearly it isn't really working. But we can't go back to free races either I guess, the game has to get money from somewhere. I'm not only not a programmer, I have no real clue about Internet advertisment either... more users, ad. income goes up, ok, but is it worth giving out more free races? Sort of a mix system, a number of free races earn more by winning stupid short races... ? Get people to buy the licence, yes, but how? I'm generally a difficult customer, don't like paying for games on the internet, here's the only one I've ever payed for... it's laughably cheap and the game is incredibly good. Too bad the users are generally mentally retarded and assholes, but well, the game itself is good. Can't really go cheaper either. Really don't know how to get more people to buy the licence. Shaming them a bit? Show who has the licence and who hasn't again, used to be the case in the early early days, then in one of the new designs disappeared. Bring that back, so we can pressure and shame those without licence!
Anyway, this is a rather important point I think. Not one I think I can really contribute much, (but know enough that mailing lists are not the answer...) but get some guys with some business sense and discuss some sort of business plan, business model with them. I remember FL repeatedly telling Buhmann to do something along this line, offering his worthless help too, maybe he still has ideas. Or others. How to get more people to play, how to get more money in. If not, do some mailing lists...
Probably the most important point as soon as the game is bug-free. Maybe it's possible to start a cooperation with big cycling-pages (asking won't cost money!), starting a facebook ad (btw, it's a good start that the fb page is posting again ;) ) and of course use a mailing list, maybe start a newsletter one week prior the end of the month with the new calendar and profiles. Please check DSGVO for that!

Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:17 am
11) New finance system. Away from the buy sell, in with contracts. Required number of riders depending on division 17-20 for D1, 14-17 D2, 12-14 D3, 10-12 D4 or something like that. 2-5 year contracts. Intelligent (somehow) riders. You don't buy a rider anymore, you offer him a contract and then pay his salary regardless of races raced. Offer includes his role. future leader, immediate leader, no 2 sprinter, helper, etc. Rider accepts the best contract, factors obviously the salary, but also the composition of the team (2 climbers, 26+28 in the team, future leader offered, seems far away, that's a minus), position of the team in the game and of course the offered role. Financing done partly through money coming from the position in the game (like Luques proposes now with the Div money, now it's pointless IMO, with a contract system it wouldn't be, and much higher of course) but for balance purposes (strength of teams that line up in races) would have to partly stay from races I think. Resigning of riders, signing away riders from other teams, 15 days before the contract runs out, offers can be made, of course same system, plus here the rider takes into consideration how well the promises given in his prior contract were kept. GC leader, didn't race a single stage race.... would probably need a twice as good financial offer to stay. GC leader, Zafzaf in my team before the Giro... rode a lot won a lot, team in D1 (I think) would take a lot of money to get him away from me. And an advantage for the current team, he gets to know what the rider would need to stay 100%... or he gets one single chance to up his offer if the rider tells him that he would accept another offer right now. Riders decide on the 25th, stay in the team til the last day of the month, OR till the stage race they are currently riding finishes. Complicated topic, but the Donkey has been thinking on that one for probably 10 years....
Great thing to look for but defo won't make the game easier for newbies.
Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:17 am
12) New helping, energy system, tried that under Buhmann, nothign usable came out of it, time for another try. Senseless that leaders arrive to the Poggio with 1000 energy... senseless that helpers lose lots of energy every km in rain protecting the leader while he stays at 1000... But ok, another complicated topic.
+1 and not too complicated.

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Kelme-Movistar » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am

Very good ideas were named.

1. Maybe the stats could be optimized to monthly scoring and not two months like until now.

2. Instead to have NC's every 3rd month, it is maybe possible to look for the best scoring riders of each country and give them the jersey.
Or only one NC per YEAR like WC. Problem of WC and NC are the time schedules ( too early for some Teams or too late for some teams ).

3. starting times of races and tours could be reduced to three times per day to get more action, because usually at night races there are only 3-5
teams.
Maybe 9/10, 15/16 and 19/20 or something like that.

4. Credits by scoring points maybe 1(0),000 credits per point (only a thought )

5. sallary cap, or if teams don't use the protected sallary, they gain more credits by this difference.

6. Transfer market, to often some strange combinated skills for youth riders. like big TT and sprint for searched and found high reg rider.

7. Team building: Maybe the role of helpers and captains depends on their skills and only can bought, if there are free places in Teams: ( Maybe
maximum 1 mountain guy 80+, 2 guys 70+, 3 guys 60+; and one sprinter 80+ and so on. flats currently unimportant, maybe let siebs from good flats
against low flats.
With best regards

Kelme-Movistar

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Man Sergiu » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 pm

Wind is it there but never makes a difference(or just very small diference)
Pave it should be trained separatly,not related to flat

Skills-Attacking very unballanced
ex
- flat same Kp both on a 0 slope is 14 +/- skill points difference (an 21year 74 flat 0 trainings can follow an trained 28y 87/88flat easly then joins the tempo and he can win the race if he has better sprint ....not normal)
-sprint equal Kp or very similar Kp is 15+/- skill pointsKp an 82s-85s sprint can follow an 95s when the 95s launches ( an 82s 21y no training can follow an 29y 95sprint trained and gets 2th in race even if other trained sprinters sprints ....not normal)
-climbing it is maximum 2 skill point difference and just if the lower skilled has a very good Kp on a +9% step (21y 73mountain will surely not follow an 23y 80mountain trained on a 7% or an 27y 85mountain cant follow and 27y 87mountain on 9% .....why is this normal)

Just make it a bit more realistic.A solution,for the flat and sprint,can be energy gained/lost due to skills,a lower skilled should lose more energy on following/making tempo(1% or 5% or 10% according to skill differences)
Do not put up with the fool because it has a restful mind

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Re: What's the priority?

Post by CarreraBlueJeans » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:54 pm

Maybe 9/10, 15/16 and 19/20 or something like that.


Well, working is killing 9/10/15/16...
Beeing Father kills 19/20..

Never kill toptime 22 ! ;)
Just answering becaus i was shocked to read the Kelme times ;-)
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:54 am

Man Sergiu wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 pm


Skills-Attacking very unballanced
ex
- flat same Kp both on a 0 slope is 14 +/- skill points difference (an 21year 74 flat 0 trainings can follow an trained 28y 87/88flat easly then joins the tempo and he can win the race if he has better sprint ....not normal)
On 0%, 16 points difference same energy same form with fight.
Man Sergiu wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 pm
Wind is it there but never makes a difference(or just very small diference)
Agree. Let's implant bordure. Or let's say that differently. Let's make all % siebable, even 0%

Man Sergiu wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:28 pm
Pave it should be trained separatly,not related to flat
hum cobbles skills is a bit complicate. Can be nice to have cobbles as an independant skills but not sure that could work.
Paquito have the skills, but Taiga had the heart. Praise Taiga !
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Re: What's the priority?

Post by luques » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:19 am

Lot of interesting ideas coming out, thanks everybody and keep contributing ;)

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