New transfer system for youth riders

[team fl]

But you understood the thing with the sales revenue system here at RSF?

Everybody here started small. But it's not very difficult to develop your team towards 12-14 riders. And of course teams that ride often and more successful have more income out of races. But they lose lots of money when they sell a rider. And really, not every team here is earning more than 1 Mio. (or even 2.5 Mio. as you state it) every month, even the so called "big" teams.

So you see the balance?
-> "big" team: earning money out of good results in races and tours and only a fraction by selling riders (let's say 30 to 50 %).
-> "small team: earning money out of selling riders (lets say 70 to 90 %) and in races and tours (perhaps not as much as more successful teams).

When you talk about experience. Here some numbers by Team FL, that has around 14 riders and is currently in between Div. 1-4, depending on the amount of races per month:

- money lost when selling a riders: around 50 %

- money earned the last month in races and tours:
January: around 880'000 so far (9 races)
December: around 170'000 (18 races)
November: 1'600'000 (20 races)
October: 1'800'000 (18 races)
September: 1'100'000 (24 races)
August: 950'000 (20 races)


To make it short: I really don't understand your points or your problem.

[NoPikouze]

A team rich with 3 0 4 captains and 13-15 riders can easily buy a runner 56-74, even if they buy the 130-140%. For him, the risk of losing money is less than for a small team. Because with 3 or 4 captains can easily recover the money spent in the month. Even if the runner is not very good in training. To purchase a small team rather than 130% is very risky, because it takes on average more time to recover the same money.

Wrong. The one risking to lose much money is the rich team. If he sells the rider who fails at training.
The new team can change his riders for almost free (10% loss?).

And I do not think that a young team can buy a 56-74 to 2.5mio without risking not being able to compete in races for 2 or 3 months to recoup the money spent.

Wrong again.
1- You dont need to compete directly with the favos to make money.
2- You dont need a 56 74 to have a good classic.
3- You can sell the failure if needed to get much money back

[Pirkio]

Btw rich team with 3 - 4 capitan lost money every race, if they win or they lost, but not all play for the money a little group of people play for win the D.1 and they are better than others for that, they don't need money, they don't need one 80 - 80 they will win the same

[ariostea]

if you think there is too much money for nothing in RSF - so too many teams that don´t ride for the win, but for money for stupid places...
get mad here:viewtopic.php?f=3&t=894

on topic: i bought 55-73-54-47-65 Reg 41 price: 1.81 Mio for 1.91 Mio this month. ok - no downhill - but still very ok for this price. just be patient and go on trying...i don´t think it´s impossible to buy good riders against the teams that race more often, at least my experience up to now.

[gaurain rx]

Well, Gaurain wants to go further with the auction system in the normal market.

My proposal : Abolish the 85% lower limit (for the "sold" riders) that a rider by auction can reach. Put it to 50% or put none!

Why : Saw 4 riders I want to buy in the last days... 1 is gone for 90%, 2 are not bought at 85% and will stay for ages on the market (they are young, still got a progression margin so it won't be interesting to buy them later).

THe 4th, ok, we'll see it the next days.

Anyway why to put a limit, that is my question. There are plenty of semi young riders (23-26) who will stay till the end of their career on the market cause they missed one or 2 trainings... Give them a chance to find another team and give the chance to the teams who wants to buy them to possibily make a good deal! There is no upper limit, why put a lower one!

+ maybe it will decrease the amout of rider on the market or at least make the turnover more important!

[gaurain rx]

Okok... Due to Nopik' contradiction, I'll do a concrete proposal.

Saw on the market a lot of riders who have not taken one or 2 trainings when their young and so they are sold by their managers at 23 --> 26 years old... But as they cost more than young riders with more potentials and as their value doesn't go down fast enough (so they miss again 4-5 trainings and become really useless), I think it would be good to decrease the lower limit of the value you can bet with the auction system for the riders with a name on the normal market.

To fight against a huge amount of 23 - 26 sold riders which stays on the market till the end of their career, I propose :

So, apparently, a rider goes to 85% of his value in 3 or 4 days

Gaurain wants :

1. Down to 75% of the value after 5 days;

And maybe, if 75% is not enough, if there are still lots of unbought riders!

2. Down to 60% after 8 days.

[fairway]

i also search now 4+ weeks for a good rider, i look every day and offer up to 450.000€ about the "normal" price, and i never get a good young rider....
for a good 2.000.000€ normal price rider you have to pay up to 2.500.000€ - 3.000.000€...

i miss the div 6-7 -.- there is the transferlife ok

and if he flop in trainig... i need to play some more month for a second chance :>

[Buhmann]

Maybe there are really too few good riders on the transfer market? I could create more riders. Offer more than 500.000 is really much.

[NoPikouze]

Or you can simply buy a non-perfect rider.

[Quick]

Maybe there are really too few good riders on the transfer market? I could create more riders. Offer more than 500.000 is really much.

Actually, i get now better riders than before. Riders bought since auctionsystem:
73-56-59(ok, not perfect)->for 95%
56-72-72 64sprint 400k over value
56-73-79 payd about 300k over value
56-74-75 400k over
46-74-78 47TT 39reg 200k over
56-61-74 66sprint - for 95%
53-73-54 - for 95%

So: really good riders, really expensive. Okay riders - cheap as hell. It's ok, i think. The 56-74-75 was bought today. Over 20 other teams made bids... - which means- make loads of good riders for everyone or the price wont go down anyway...

[Bear]

actually this is what i expected of the new system, and i like it.

[Alkworld]

I'm also against having more excellent riders in the market. Like NoPik says, either buy non-perfect riders or pay a lot for the perfect ones. But the whole thing only works out properly, if the riders on the Div6-7 market are not as good and numerous as they have been. At the moment, it looks fine there, except for the classic riders.

[fairway]

The 56-74-75 was bought today. Over 20 other teams made bids... - which means- make loads of good riders for everyone or the price wont go down anyway...

yap that was the last guy.... 450.000€ wasnt enoth...
and i dont think that any old team with 10+ riders got a problem with the system, the problem is just there for young teams who comes in div 5. old teams can just buy 2-3 non-perfekt rider and wait for the train luck or pay 500.000 - 1.000.000 more...

i also dont understand why there are alltime so endless much young river for div6-7
just sort by Cobbles we will get this (watch pic), 17 best Cobble riders = 3 for div 1-5.
same pic for classik rider... in div 6-7 is buying a good young classic rider no problem....

why there are so much more good buyable rider for div 6-7?

[Team ABC-Polsat]

yep thats true, there are much more non perfect but still good riders in div 6-7 than div 1-5

[fairway]

imho a good soluion is:
- fix prices for normal and good rider
- and auction for very good and perfect rider....

then for all division same rider...
i mean this game want to be a simulation...
its also not very real that some good driver wont join a high division team

[flockmastoR]

Apart from the problem that its maybe true that you get good riders easier in 6-7 than in 1-5 (i mean not the perfekt skill riders), you "new" guys all think that

and i dont think that any old team with 10+ riders got a problem with the system, the problem is just there for young teams who comes in div 5. old teams can just buy 2-3 non-perfekt rider and wait for the train luck or pay 500.000 - 1.000.000 more...

which is just not true. The reason that old teams (like me) still think that the auction system is better is just that they see the advantages here too and not just the disadvantages. I will never bet 700k more than the market price for a perfect 56-74-79 or 73-56-79 or guys like that because i just know that i get a 73-54-60 for about 1mio less than the other guys and if the pefect 56-74-79 just becomes 69-80-79 in training i lost too much money.

[fairway]

which is just not true

i speak today with someone who told me something about close to 50mio. total capital in best times
iam not sure but i think it was alkworld....

but at least, imho its senseless that it bring an advantage if you stack in div 6-7 and it will be harder to get good rider in div5...
so iam "lucky" if i can be relegated back down to div6...

[Robyklebt]

Total capital including the riders.
Means your tax is at 70% you sell a rider that has a value of 3 millions you get... 900k. You do that and your capital is down to 47,9 million, the tax stays at 70% (it goes under 70% from 35 Mio I think)
You sell another rider for 3 million, so another good rider, you get another 900k. So you sell 6 millions to get 1,8.. And your still at 70% tax...
So those 50 millions team capital are actually much much less in money that you can use to buy riders. For 6 millions "non liquid capital" of a big team you don't get a 56-74-79.

[fairway]

but 50million also mean he already buyed a lot good young driver ^^

here one more pic who shows the div 6-7 advantage... i look for an mountain (65) / tt (70) driver

[Radunion]

Is there no limitation for this kind or riders in div 6 (67 mountain, 72 tt)? -> change it please
These riders are normally not sold above the price as they are expensive anyway. And I think it is no problem to wait a little bit for a rider that is definitely a leader.

In my experience it is more likely that a very high bid comes from a smaller team, as they can get much more money by selling riders. I think a very big team has more disadvantages than advantages, unless it rides nearly every day.

[gaurain rx]

I agree with Flocke/Mathe on the matter of "good riders"... And so, please think about this, instead of willing increase the number of perfect rider on the youth market!

Okok... Due to Nopik' contradiction, I'll do a concrete proposal.

Saw on the market a lot of riders who have not taken one or 2 trainings when their young and so they are sold by their managers at 23 --> 26 years old... But as they cost more than young riders with more potentials and as their value doesn't go down fast enough (so they miss again 4-5 trainings and become really useless), I think it would be good to decrease the lower limit of the value you can bet with the auction system for the riders with a name on the normal market.

To fight against a huge amount of 23 - 26 sold riders which stays on the market till the end of their career, I propose :

So, apparently, a rider goes to 85% of his value in 3 or 4 days

Gaurain wants :

1. Down to 75% of the value after 5 days;

And maybe, if 75% is not enough, if there are still lots of unbought riders!

2. Down to 60% after 8 days.

[Robyklebt]

Maybe we should separate the threads?

Fairway is talking about the youth riders, Gaurain about the cheapening of sold riders!
To keep it clear...

[fairway]

Today:

Driver 50-59-60-50-82 with 39 reg
Value: 2.158.623
Sold out for: 3.000.000

Very very nice sprinter!
but 3 Million.... thats 841.377€ over the top...
like i told... 500.000 - 1.000.000 is needet for real good driver...

[NoPikouze]

Bad exemple. All the teams make normal offers excepted 1 who is not a big team (i think?)

[fairway]

1 high bet per rider is enoth to push the price...