New transfer system for youth riders

[Astana]

Ok, basically you think you want in, that's all I got from your posts so far. No matter what.

i bought 2 youth riders yet, so that i won't buy any in the next time...and until them i think i will be in div 4 again, because now i have more time to ride...so thats not about me

[Robyklebt]

Well, I'm convinced it's about you and only you for you. IF it was for the game you would know the arguments others brought, not make them up. So I'm calling you a liar, right.

[Astana]

ok...it's true that some arguments wasn't that good, but i don't like it, when all of the arguments guys from upper divisions are including a huge discrimination for d5-teams.and for example no youth market for them, is one.that's a fact.why can't we just try the 120% and if it doesn't work change it?but if we saw "no" at the beginning there won't be any changes for d5 anymore

[Robyklebt]

OK, first problem resolved by Buh, the D6 buggers won't be in D5 anymore. Lots of other issues left.

But anyway, how did you come up with the number, every 10 minutes, 6 per hour, 144 per day, 4340 a month? Any calculations of any sort behind that number or just a shot in the dark?

Next, how you programmed something that automatically adjusts that number of riders depending on the teams participating in the actions? Changing that manually will be a hassle soon, especially if you plan to start advertising the game more in other languages, as you have kind of announced.

The reset and no 50 day rule problem: D5 having the option to reset just makes gives them a huge potential advantage. They can overpay for their riders, if it doesn't work out they have the possibilty to reset or get rid of other riders fast. Both things that increase the prices for everybody, but doesn't hurt the resetters in the end. Only D1-4 and the ones in D5 that don't reset. Forbid resets and introduce the 50 day rule. Which of course is complete bullshit for D5ers who won't have the possibility to test around as easily anymore. But so is having them in Auctions with that possibility. Which will it be? Or have you come up with something better?

Next: What's the reasoning behind no youth riders in 6b? It was kind of ok as an unneffective anti-farming measure, not really ok either, by now at least the extra 15+ they get is gone, so already less of a problem. Plus 6b no youth riders is known now, somebody takes a farming break he'll just stay in D5 by riding a race a month or so... just start, can even give up. Unneffective for that and I don't see a convincing reason why D6b shouldn't get the same treatment as D5. Which unfortunately you decided is participation in the auctions. Why do LCB, bella, Z, Ticos etc. have to first buy 9 other riders and ride a race before they can buy youth riders?

[Buhmann]

Maybe no youth rider for Div 5 anymore is the best solution. If it is too hard in the future to come to Div1-4 we need a new Division to solve this.

6 per hour means 144 per day. That means 1008 per week. Now we have 900 per...3 days? Okay, maybe one per 10 minute too few?

If we want to have allways ca. 900 riders on the list, we have to choose shorter intervals. We need 900 riders per 3 days, because after 3 days (or for some riders earliere) the riders are deleted from the list. So a interval of 5 minutes sounds good...

And no youth transfer market for 6b is good. If somebody stopped playing for month, he shall start with a normal team. Not with reared (?) inactive riders, which could have great skills.

[Robyklebt]

You drive me crazy. Or is it ride since it's a cycling game?

What is it now?

D1-4, D1-5 D1-5 +6b?

Obviously the number of riders won't be the same.

9000 now in 30 days, for D1-5.

For D1-4 8680 a month would be way too much. A present for D1-4, everything for 95% except the absolute top values. It's 180 teams, 3600 riders might be enough for that, or then 4340... which would be 12/10 minutes. (just realize this minute thing could be a bit restricitive when changing things, but then you could do it in seconds too, no?)

For D1-5+ (6b) 8680 might be a good number to start.

But nobody can really predict what a good number will be.

The number will have to be adjusted very likely a few times during the first days/weeks. To get a balance where some riders cost more, some riders less. I hope you have kind of an expectation of what that should look like actually.

[Buhmann]

Div 1-4...or we say, that a youth transfer market for Div 5 is necessary, too. Then Div 1-5.

[Robyklebt]

Please visit Shanghai one day, bring a pistol and shoot me.

[Buhmann]

Whats your problem Roby, tell me.
Sorry if i don´t know every time the current state of discussion.

[Zauberlehrling]

Easy:
Div1-4: Auctions, one rider per 15 Minutes, is 2880 per month.
Div5: Youth market as known, refill to 600 riders like now (not to 900 as now), makes around 6000 riders for them.

All in all it's 8880 then. Now it's 9000, so slightly less, but that seems to be ok for me.

[Buhmann]

15 per minute too few.

Big advantage for Div5 in my opinion.

[Zauberlehrling]

Then refill them only to 450 (half the actual amount)...

[Robyklebt]

You!

Can you make up your mind if it's D1-4 or D1-5? The problems and things to do in both cases are just different. You know my opinion I guess. If you go for the other thing, ok, I'll still tell you what the problems there will be in my opinion. You go for the thing I like, I like it better, but there are issues too, less, but I'll tell you where there could be problems anyway. So by now I don't know what the topic of discussion is anymore either...

But ok, I'll give you another topic for discussion and thinking that will need to be adressed: What to do with the auctions at the end of the month? When they would beyond the season change? That's regardless of D1-4/5/5695

Since my wife refused to shoot me as well (she says she wouldn't get any insurance money) I go to sleep now.

Oh, ZL wrote something, good! I like him. And what he wrote too. Numbers maybe I would have gone for 12 min and 500 but again, we simply have to test to see what works for the auctions.

You said before that you don't want to give D5 an advantage, market like now, cheaper riders for them.
I think that the disadvantage for D1-4 would be bigger if you include D5 (without adjusting lots of stuff for D5) in the auction that it will be in ZLs proposal. Why see above.
What ZL proposes not a perfect long term solution, he knows that, I know that, you know that I hope. But as a solution during a test, no problem. The test with D5 on the other hand would just make the test/introduction phase/fine tuning much much more difficult. Of course there will be unforeseen problems anyway.. what don't know, that's why they are unforeseen. But more foreseeable problems including D5 in a test. And yes, IMO it makes sense leaving them out auctions completely after the test/try/whatever we call it as well, game play, division etc. In my not humble at all opinion.

Bah, now Buh wrote again:

Too few: Very possible. Problem is we don't really know the spread of riders in your formula.. the one used now too... a very superficial Robylation said 5-7% are somewhat interesting, it's maybe more. Fairly sure not less. But you think not enough, possible, in that case why not

12 min interval
500

Both numbers adjustable later. And a long term solution for D5 to be discussed in April... 6b as well btw.

Now ZL wrote! Ha. It's current not actual in this case.

[Buhmann]

Maybe i don´t say it clearly: I don´t know if we delte the youth transfer market for Div 5 completly. They won´t be able to use the auction system. That is fact at the moment. So we don´t need to discuss this. We only ahve to discuss if they need a youth transfer market anymore.

[Robyklebt]

Ok got it.

I think there are x different ways to solve the problem.

From no youth market at all, to a full youth market like now.

With something in between possible too.

Youth market without the absolute topskills for example. That means top skills in D5 would be max mountain 72 flat 73 etc. combinasions the same, 55-73 etc. etc. In a way would make sense, no top rider wants to start in D5. The disadvantage wouldn't be that big depending on the rider, a 55-73-78 in D1-4 auctions will probably go for over 100%, would still be 100 in D5, cheaper.

Or a sort of leftover market, although not sure if that makes sense, after rethinking it for the xt time. What other options do you or anybody else reading and thinking see?

[Buhmann]

What to do with the auctions at the end of the month?

I don´t see there any problem. Every auctions ends until 3 (or 4?) days. So if i bid for a rider at 30th of a month, i can git him as a 21 old rider at the beginning of the new saison.
Rider which nobody wanted to buy will be deleted at the saison end.

[Radunion]

In the current system you cannot build a strong team without youth riders. The "namen geben" riders are much weaker. No youth rideres would make div 5 teams even weaker, a market without auctions could make it for div 4 Teams interesting go down to div 5 to get cheaper riders.

I think it will be difficult to balance the market, even if there is a fixed number of teams. I am sure there will be considerable differences in the prices in the beginning of the month and in the end. The best possibility would be a automated regulation of the supply. This will not be difficult to implement, if there there is a plan for the market, for example set a target for the overpayment of the "value" of the rider.

And then there is no reason to restrict the market, except some protection for new teams. In this case a restriction based on the number of races is better than a restriction based on the ranking of the team.

[Buhmann]

In the current system you cannot build a strong team without youth riders

Div 5 can buy better "name geben" riders. And 21 old riders are still there...

i would prefer cancel the youth market for Div 5.

[Rockstar Inc]

i would prefer cancel the youth market for Div 5.

YES

In the current system you cannot build a strong team without youth riders.

and that's really good!!!!!!! earn your rights and chances by relegating in higher divs!!! not every new team or old restartet should have the best oppurtunities!!!

[Pirkio]

ok is cool for the fairplay (i realy hate player who go back to div 5 for buy better racers very easy) but.. don't forget the noob teams if they can't have super young who can have? a lot of them will leave the game first of reach the 4 cat with a team of 8 47 - 78 and 1 85 - 50 - 50

[Zauberlehrling]

It's really easy to go up to Div4... even a sausage like ZL could do it in December 2009. In November I had only 21y old riders and zero points from Oct, it was close to promote, in Dec it was no problem at all. And a bunch of 22y old guys are everything but strong.

[Brio-Rennstall]

No youth riders in Div. 5? This is absolutely ridiculous and not satisfactory. Thanks for nothing, silliest idee which I have ever read here. You made my day, unsensory .

[Astana]

oh...nice to see, that some other teams also against no youth rider market for d5

[Luna]

but.. don't forget the noob teams if they can't have super young who can have? a lot of them will leave the game first of reach the 4 cat with a team of 8 47 - 78 and 1 85 - 50 - 50

When I am new to a game I really don't expect to have anything other than a weak team. Actually in any scenery you are a beginner at the beginning and you have to deal with some defeats. Don't think that would surprise or even discourage anybody.

[Lizard]

but.. don't forget the noob teams if they can't have super young who can have? a lot of them will leave the game first of reach the 4 cat with a team of 8 47 - 78 and 1 85 - 50 - 50

When I am new to a game I really don't expect to have anything other than a weak team. Actually in any scenery you are a beginner at the beginning and you have to deal with some defeats. Don't think that would surprise or even discourage anybody.

In fact it's what drives you to go on playing the game... no prob.

Btw against Div 5 market, just because too many Div 5 teams as mentioned before.