Open letter about the future of C4F

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Chense
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Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Chense » Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:58 pm

Dear players,

we decided to send a letter to Buhmann, Lesossies and Luques who together invented, developed and conducted C4F for over 10 years now.

As we are pretty sure we are not the only players that have thought about the future of this game, we want to share this letter with you and kindly ask anyone that is agreeing with our thoughts about the future of the game to also sign it.

You can find the letter under the following address:

https://openletter.earth/dialogue-about ... f-70a70e3b

Best regards
Team Trojer Vellau
pp. Gipfelstürmer
pp. Team FL
pp. Trekken
pp. Team Hunsrück

luques
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by luques » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:53 am

Hi guys!

First of all... SORRY!

I know many of you are disappointed and I didn't fulfill the promises I made at the start of the year.
Kind of sad for that.
I really appreciated all your support through the year, even if the game was not easily accessible or playable.

So, what happened? Basically lack of time.
At the start of the year I was quite confident, but then changing the work resulted for me in barely having the time to eat for the rest of the year (apart from personal things). So I couldn't focus on RSF as I wanted and as it was needed.

That's why I am also answering this post so late and at 2AM.

Don't bother Buh, the blame is on me since I tookover and everything is my responsibility (from paying the server to receiving money).

Is it a problem economically? No, I can let the game live for other 20years without problems.

What are the future plans? Obviously priority is transitioning to a no-flash version, how to do that? Still thinking about it (not too much sadly).

As for the rest my Skype or WhatsApp are always free if someone wants to chat (obviously not in public to avoid spam).

P.S. I hope the letter is the same that Gipfel sent me as I couldnt open the site

Chense
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Chense » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:53 pm

Dear luques,

thanks for your answer also from my side for now! :)

As you might have seen Gip has contacted you also so feel free to talk to us e.g. via Whatsapp - Either Gip can give you my contact or just ask me yourself :)

To all that signed the letter. Big thanks from my side (and i think also from Gip). Its a honesty to see that there is still a stable (even if small) group of people that really care about this game!

Best regards!

lesossies
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by lesossies » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:12 pm

Hi all,
Buh has read the letter and I think, he had no time to answer.
For me personly, I wont have the energy to make a new start and I am not sure if I will play again next saison.
I am sad too that the game should stop but I dont know how I could stop this slow dying.
Before we stopped and decided to give the game up to luques, I can remember that Alkworld too was interested to progam it new.
I dont know if he is alredy interested and could work with luques.
I dont know if anybody else has the time and capabilities to make it.
Leso
If you have a good idea, Buh could maybe help.
Sorry
Good Luck

Leso

Alkworld
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Alkworld » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:29 pm

lesossies wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:12 pm
Hi all,
Buh has read the letter and I think, he had no time to answer.
For me personly, I wont have the energy to make a new start and I am not sure if I will play again next saison.
I am sad too that the game should stop but I dont know how I could stop this slow dying.
Before we stopped and decided to give the game up to luques, I can remember that Alkworld too was interested to progam it new.
I dont know if he is alredy interested and could work with luques.
I dont know if anybody else has the time and capabilities to make it.
Leso
If you have a good idea, Buh could maybe help.
Sorry
Good Luck

Leso
I contacted Luques already, I'm willing to support (and even have some time to)

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flockmastoR
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by flockmastoR » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:01 pm

Alkworld wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:29 pm
lesossies wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:12 pm
Hi all,
Buh has read the letter and I think, he had no time to answer.
For me personly, I wont have the energy to make a new start and I am not sure if I will play again next saison.
I am sad too that the game should stop but I dont know how I could stop this slow dying.
Before we stopped and decided to give the game up to luques, I can remember that Alkworld too was interested to progam it new.
I dont know if he is alredy interested and could work with luques.
I dont know if anybody else has the time and capabilities to make it.
Leso
If you have a good idea, Buh could maybe help.
Sorry
Good Luck

Leso
I contacted Luques already, I'm willing to support (and even have some time to)

I can support, I have experience in programming, but not about web based games. Nevertheless, if there is a way to keep this race going on, I can contribute!
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Mangahn
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Mangahn » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:17 pm

It might be necessery to refinance the game.
I would accept it and do my part of it.

waer
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by waer » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:01 pm

Good morning,i am available to support ,if necessary , the refinance of the game .

Alkworld
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Alkworld » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:07 pm

Mangahn wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:17 pm
It might be necessery to refinance the game.
I would accept it and do my part of it.
luques wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:53 am
Is it a problem economically? No, I can let the game live for other 20years without problems.
Not sure what you mean by "refinance". Financially, everything seems OK for Luques.

Mangahn
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Mangahn » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:02 pm

There might be a difference from "I´m able to" and "its worth it".

I doubt RSF is a good deal by now for a owner. It might be not the mainpoint or the mainproblem. But I believe its one point.

luques
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by luques » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:39 am

Alkworld wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:07 pm
Mangahn wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:17 pm
It might be necessery to refinance the game.
I would accept it and do my part of it.
luques wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:53 am
Is it a problem economically? No, I can let the game live for other 20years without problems.
Not sure what you mean by "refinance". Financially, everything seems OK for Luques.
I confirm you that financially it's not a problem. It's like a hobby. At the end doesn't change too much.
It's more the time that is missing.

Buhmann
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Buhmann » Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:55 pm

Hi,

not sure if it is still valid. ButI believe I should at least answer. So that´s my post I wrote already in the development part, almost one year ago. So as I said, not sure if it is still really valid. But these are some options to keep it alive with minimum (but still visible) effort.


"as far as I understood, there are some issues left with the new HTML version. The workaround with the puffin browser is of course good for all existing players, but to get new ones, it is maybe not the best way.
I justed wanted give you some feedback, what else could be maybe a good transition.

Option 1:
Improve/Use the android tablet app
I have checked the app and it still seems to be playable with that. In the past I had some performance issue with that, but maybe with the new generations of tablets, it is even more playable. (I guess tablet version - html or app - is the desired solution we have to go anyway to keep it alive, right?)

Option 2:
Create a rich client based on the on old flash application. The browser support is finsished, but it is still possible and, as far as I know, also maintained by the adobe air vendor. Means: You can use the flash application quite easily as a desktop application.

I think the main thing is, that on the cycling4freaks homepage, a link to running application should be available or lets say, it shoudl looks like the normal way to enter the game, to avoid frustration of new players. Means: If you enter the homepage, there should be one large button to download the application. If you decided thats puffin is the solution fpor the transition phase, I would put this to the homepage as suitable solution with the corresponding download links. It could look like a normal desired way to play the game.

Another thing: I heard that some other guys, like "Gipfelstuermer" would be available to help. Let´s say, it was maybe not mybest decission in the past, that I implemented everything by my own. And if you need help from my side, maybe questions to the old code or whatever, just let me know. Not sure how the current implementation is planned. One good solution could be, to reuse the backend php code, which provides the HTTP calls for the clients. There is already some (not very clean) stuff implemented, so that you do not need to figure it out by yourself. It is unfortunaltey not a clean REST API. If you need help to interpret the API, let me know."

Alkworld
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Alkworld » Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:50 pm

Hi Buhmann,

good to hear from you as well :)
Buhmann wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:55 pm
Another thing: I heard that some other guys, like "Gipfelstuermer" would be available to help. Let´s say, it was maybe not mybest decission in the past, that I implemented everything by my own. And if you need help from my side, maybe questions to the old code or whatever, just let me know. Not sure how the current implementation is planned. One good solution could be, to reuse the backend php code, which provides the HTTP calls for the clients. There is already some (not very clean) stuff implemented, so that you do not need to figure it out by yourself. It is unfortunaltey not a clean REST API. If you need help to interpret the API, let me know."
We're already a few steps further with gathering a development team, which is now three of us (Gipfel, AAD and myself) trying to support Luques. The backend code for now looks sufficient and imo understandable enough. If there are questions we might approach you :)
Buhmann wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:55 pm
Option 1:
Improve/Use the android tablet app
I have checked the app and it still seems to be playable with that. In the past I had some performance issue with that, but maybe with the new generations of tablets, it is even more playable. (I guess tablet version - html or app - is the desired solution we have to go anyway to keep it alive, right?)
The app is OK, but nothing compared to the flash browser version when it comes to overview in a tough race.
Buhmann wrote:
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:55 pm
Option 2:
Create a rich client based on the on old flash application. The browser support is finsished, but it is still possible and, as far as I know, also maintained by the adobe air vendor. Means: You can use the flash application quite easily as a desktop application.
Also one option, but actually I think Luques start with React looks quite promising (from a technical perspective), although many things still need to be improved.

Buhmann
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Buhmann » Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:39 am

Hey Alkworld,

quite good news for me!

Just one thing I would like to mention regarding the app: The App can be used with the desktop layout as well. It was just too large for smartphones and not that good to play on tablet, so I believe there is always another layout. But maybe with new tablet generations it is fast enough. It is not really a good solution at all, but for a transition phase it could be feasible. But I understand, that you want go directly with the new version.
But then I would really recommend to link the new page when you click on "play now". Otherwise there is almost no chance to get new players I fear.

However, it is really good to see, that you are working on that and keep it alive!

Alkworld
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Re: Open letter about the future of C4F

Post by Alkworld » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:40 pm

Buhmann wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:39 am
But I understand, that you want go directly with the new version.
But then I would really recommend to link the new page when you click on "play now". Otherwise there is almost no chance to get new players I fear.
The idea is to focus first on making the browser version playable again. Once it's working somehow, it can be shown a bit more prominently.

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