What future for RSF ?

Discussion about technical stuff and suggestions for improvement.

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team fl
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by team fl » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:50 am

Weezel wrote:More teams in races, because people can join lately, if they have unexpected time...
That's a vague hypothesis...
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by superdragoes » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:49 pm

I wanted to thank you for the great game they have!
Every day I come back from work, I get to sit and dedicate myself to the game. Wake up and think the game. I'm with my girlfriend in bed and think about the game.
Part of my life C4F!
Congratulations for what the game gives me.

it was essential video tutorial! because in fact it is difficult if you start your adventure in the C4F

more disclosure of the game, arrange sponsorships, promotion on sites or even in facebook. If everyone share on facebook would be a great help! (but before that create the video presentation and tuturial)

-In my opinion, I'm so proud of this game, which deserves to be elevated to the highest level. If each country responsible for its e-mail a local newspaper's competitiveness in this game, the pride that is in every nation represented, the difficulty that there is in the game. I think it would be a good idea too.

For me it's all,
I wish the best of luck in the world to C4F

And it never ends!
Champion World for Portugal in C4F
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Tour de France 2017

Buhmann
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Buhmann » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:19 pm

Great to hear something positive like this. Thank you for this post. Every time from now when i think why i am still doing this i will think about this post :)

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Allagen » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:26 pm

team fl wrote:
Weezel wrote:More teams in races, because people can join lately, if they have unexpected time...
That's a vague hypothesis...

i missed a lot of races because i was to late at home. and then i had no time to ride another race so i rode no race.....

...i totally agree with weezel. change it from 30 minutes into 10 minutes or something like that. maybe some more teams can ride the races. would be good.
RV Allagen. Qualität seit 2006. Erfolg seit 2006.

team fl
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by team fl » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:03 pm

Allagen wrote:
team fl wrote:
Weezel wrote:More teams in races, because people can join lately, if they have unexpected time...
That's a vague hypothesis...

i missed a lot of races because i was to late at home. and then i had no time to ride another race so i rode no race.....

...i totally agree with weezel. change it from 30 minutes into 10 minutes or something like that. maybe some more teams can ride the races. would be good.

you know the differenc between inductive and deductive method?
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by luques » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:12 pm

Allagen wrote:
new premium license to solve the multiproblems

the license is to cheap. nobody will die if you pay 20 € instead of 15 € for one year. use the extra money for advertising.

to kill two birds with one stone, we need a new premium-license. for maybe 30-40 €/year, you have some new feature. one feature, you are allowed to have a second team (maybe 3 teams for extra-extra money?)! a legal "multi"! if you go on the teampage of one team you see a link for the "multi". you are not allowed to play the same race. maybe the second team is only for cat 1-3 races. dont know.

you will get more money by that way (for more advertising and more users) and you have more active teams! so you killed two birds with one stone.

RSF has got a big Multi-Problem. i appreciate round about 60-80 Teams in Div 1-6 with more then one team! a lot of people love to play the game and one team is not enough. if they find out that you are a multi, your multi get a ban and your mainteam a warning. that is like no fine for me. so only little risk for multis. on the other hand, this shows that a lot of teams want more then one team. just legalized it :lol: for extra money!

for the illegal multis: they have 2 months to buy the premium license and they are able to keep 2 teams without a fine. after that 2 months, every multi will delete (mainteam and multi) which does not pay for it.


the problem now: if you delete the mainteams and the multis, RSF is not able to continue....if you count the mainteams and multis, you will get more then 200 teams...


...so this is maybe a solution. and buhmann is able to earn more money for more advertising. and maybe we have some new teams, because a team without a illegal multi team will create a legal team with the premium license. if the license is over, the second team will delete (after some weeks) automatically.

its a win-win situation in my opinion.


PS: this idea is not new! take a look at hattrick. they lost a lot of users and now they have a new premium-license for a second team.
I see this thing also in another game and it works pretty good.

The rule is simple, if you get the license you can have another account, but obviously you don't have to play the same game (the same race) with the two accounts.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:37 pm

Dont really see how that would improve the multi situation? You just get the honest guys to buy for an extra team, the other ones will still make illegal multi accounts
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by luques » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:52 am

flockmastoR wrote:Dont really see how that would improve the multi situation? You just get the honest guys to buy for an extra team, the other ones will still make illegal multi accounts
Yes you are true. And it's the first part that I care. The honest guy buys the license to have an extra team and this means more teams playing and more money for Buh.
For the other ones surely it's not a browser game that can make them behave honestly. The FPJ will think about that.

I don't care to improve the multi situation, as it is not imo a real problem for this game. I see less and less multis, nobody really influencing the game. But at least we give an incentive to the addicted gamers.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Pokemon Club » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:56 am

luques wrote:
flockmastoR wrote:Dont really see how that would improve the multi situation? You just get the honest guys to buy for an extra team, the other ones will still make illegal multi accounts
Yes you are true. And it's the first part that I care. The honest guy buys the license to have an extra team and this means more teams playing and more money for Buh.
For the other ones surely it's not a browser game that can make them behave honestly. The FPJ will think about that.

I don't care to improve the multi situation, as it is not imo a real problem for this game. I see less and less multis, nobody really influencing the game. But at least we give an incentive to the addicted gamers.
Or why not just let the opportunity for teams to ride 2 races per day (if they have enough riders for that of course). It can influence people to build their team instead of create X multis imo.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by cataracs » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:39 am

Pokemon Club wrote:
Or why not just let the opportunity for teams to ride 2 races per day (if they have enough riders for that of course). It can influence people to build their team instead of create X multis imo.
or maybe cut the 20riders limit and let the teams ride anyrace they want

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by luques » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:48 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
luques wrote:
flockmastoR wrote:Dont really see how that would improve the multi situation? You just get the honest guys to buy for an extra team, the other ones will still make illegal multi accounts
Yes you are true. And it's the first part that I care. The honest guy buys the license to have an extra team and this means more teams playing and more money for Buh.
For the other ones surely it's not a browser game that can make them behave honestly. The FPJ will think about that.

I don't care to improve the multi situation, as it is not imo a real problem for this game. I see less and less multis, nobody really influencing the game. But at least we give an incentive to the addicted gamers.
Or why not just let the opportunity for teams to ride 2 races per day (if they have enough riders for that of course). It can influence people to build their team instead of create X multis imo.
I agree with you Poke, in my opinion it's the most "elegant" solution. It would allow also players to play GT's and not losing all the parallel things. But I see two big problems:

1) It requires some (much?) work from Buh. He has already not much time and I think that his main focus should be in fixing bugs and adjust the new features.

2) It creates a gap (in terms of points and also of money) between players that can play much vs players that can do only one race per day. So you will have lot of guys against this idea.

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cataracs
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by cataracs » Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:30 pm

Buhmann wrote: Or is it time to reactivate a ingame Gazetta de la RSF? :)
I know I'm not the only one interested in that. and I know I'm not the only one who can offer time to help. we just need the first step and that's your job boss!

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Chense » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:29 pm

Well Well ... 10 years of RSF have gone for me ... roughly 180-200 races a year ... so now whats my opinion for now?

It seems we have a stable community ... so the big negative trend has stopped ... not that much of the old teams left in the past - Some old seem to have returned ... Some new that seem to stay like Spree, Jäger etc. arrived but its too less still ... so theres just some thoughts i recognized in the past days ...

About the board - There is a german, a french, an italian, a portuguese section ... most of them seem to be pretty lonely - Think about going back to only the english section as a dead board is a bad advertise for a game ...

About the game - Luques is willing to do something - Leso and Buh i dont know how much they are still involved - I am not a programmer so i cant help about that part ... so the bug and flash problem is yours - Still i could offer help in translating, organizing and so on ... As i said before we have a stable community but in the races its always about 2-3 teams to less (at least in the evening) so we dont need 500 new teams but maybe 100 that fill up that hole ... give me some ideas ill help (and ill think myself about it too)
Maybe its now also time to get some old teams back as some problems seem to have solved ... i dont see such a big multi problem anymore ... also the "germans" vs. "italians" and so on thing seems to have calmed down a bit ... so some ads to well known teams that have gone might be nice?

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Z&B » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:36 pm

I wanted to comment on it twice now, but deleted my post, because either too lazy to cover all of my thoughts or my shitty nüllchen real life distracted me.

But I got time now. Thanks to my huge amount of saved holidays. And I don't wanna spam the ingame chat with "smart" stuff. Annoying FL already tried to sabotage it because he is one of the conservative brats. Never change a running system..especially if he doesn't benefit from it.

A couple of months ago, I wrote something similar in a race. This game has a really special playerbase and community. Hard to compare to other, more "mainstreamy", games. You can't play whenever you want, since the races start at fixed timings. In general it's not a fast paced game with a lot of action. Sometimes 90 minutes and more doing nothing just to adjust the sprint settings for a top 10 finish. To be honest..pretty boring if a) I know that I won't have any chances to win or to finish Top5 or b) I can't influence the race since my team doesn't fit the profil (huge point regarding new teams).
I get it. That's the game. It shouldn't be the way that you have to check the race every minute. Experienced teams know the crucial parts of a race. But new players don't know.

So what's the first impression of someone who is really new to the game? Oh, nice. I like cycling. But meeh, I've to wait 2 hours before the next race starts. Auto generated sprint team, but the profil doesn't suit his team. He, hopefuilly, rides anyway despite the 2 hours waiting time and, hopefully again, learns the basics in the race chat, especially energy management, since he has no clue what he is doing and attacks or makes tempo for no reason. All good, everyone started without game knowledge. Some of us are still searching for it. And then? The race on the next day is something for climbers. He doesn't have one. Should he ride regardless? Or do we hope he is still interested in the game until there's a race that he can "really" ride? I mean.. what's more fun? Actively riding and doing stuff or just rolling for 90 minutes with the peloton and sprint in the end?

Give new teams the option to be more active. 15m starting budget isn't the right amount anymore, in my eyes. That worked almost 10 years ago. Still works, yes, but wouldn't it be better and healthier for the game if we raise it so you are able to build a decent team right away that can actually do stuff in most of the races? It's easy to say that you have to work for a good team and I agree with it. You shouldn't get 2 climbers, an own sprint train, 2 good classics and a bunch of 8x flattys. New teams "suffer" already with the worse market. I'm probably quite lonely with the opinion that a 27 years old 90 sprinter, 85 climber or the 68-78 classics in the Div 6-7 market are just sausages compared to everything a veteran team is able to build through a youth rider. And yes again, its good the way it is. New teams don't need the better youth market. But right now.. how long do they have to play to be able to afford a 10th rider or switch out their older riders because they start regressing? All that considering that they are a specialized team at the start anyway. That are problems every veteran hasn't to deal with anymore, but that doesn't mean it has to stay the way it is right now. Maybe I'm completely off with my opinion, but discussing something doesn't hurt anyone.

Im probably forgetting some points I wanted to add. But long story short: Give a new team more options to have fun and actively play the game. Raise the starting budget to something like 18m and make em buy 10 riders so they don't have to be hit by high salary problems.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Hanse » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:18 pm

the problem i see s that new players dont know how to build a good team and also with 18M the sdtill wont have teams fitting for every stage we will get new teams with 3sprinter or 3 mountain riders or something like this. 15 million is enough if you know how to build a team to participate and earn money. you dont need to be good in every race. you can go in escapes if the stage dont fit your team.

we´need a better tutorial and maybe a better system for new players to practice. maybe we should do something with short races that players can practice also against older teams which can help then. maybe you should allow teams to ride a couple races with an auto generated team. then they can talk with other teams get tips and after he couple teams they have the chance to build a whole new team. but keep the money the already earned.
then they know a bit more about the game and can get tips from older players how to build a team.


and like chense i would offer my help anywhere where somebody without programming knowledge can help.
Hansa

Lets try to make RSF great again.
The game is great but lets try to get old Players back and get some new ones.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Z&B » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:03 pm

The whole "give new teams more money" has two points I wanted to address with it.

First: Is 15m still the right amount of money compared to the majority of playing teams?

Most of the active players have a healthy team with a lot of riders for every kind of race. That's fine. They stuck long enough around to have this luxury. But with these "monsters" (yeah, yeah..overdramatic..but as long as it helps my case) around in small races, it can be a valid point to raise the overall quality of the newer teams. Again..just because it worked in the past, doesn't mean it's still the right starting point. I don't think Buhmann had in mind that years later there are a bunch of teams with 35m or more running around. So yeah, it's probably time to reevaluate this topic under the changed conditions. And if the majority thinks 15m is still fine, then it stays. I got no problem with it.


Second: How can we make the game for newbies more enjoyable?

That was my starting point for the post anyway. The money thing started yesterday in the ingame chat and I went with it. Complaining about the lack of new teams or the shrinking playerbase is something you read from time to time. Veteran teams leave for whatever reason. Mostly not game related reasons. That's the circle of a games life. Sure, try to advertise the game in different forums (again). Or try to figure out ways to make the game for newbies more accessible and enjoyable. I said in my last post. It's a special kind of game. You have to grind at fixed times for more than an hour with mostly no action. That's an annoying way to grind. Especially if you are pretty much limited in your options to play this game with your starter roster. Lets go with the sprint team example. No race for a ms. So you try your luck in an escape. Fine. Probably 2 riders dead for the next two days. Then you have to ride with your 1m fillers since you couldn't afford anything decent anymore since you had to pay for decent helper and a sprinter already or wanted the "luxury" of a classic. I would love to build a 15m team on my own right now to work with proper numbers, but I'm too lazy and too experienced anyway. Point is: The more you can do in a race and the more ways of actively influence a race you have, the better. If you just ride to make money and wait til the better teams forced a ms for you so you can sprint for the 10th place, then that's dumb and not funny at all for a newbie. That's why I don't like the point of "it's easy to make money in this game anyway". Yes, you are right. But it's still a bit ignorant to say it to a newbie who has to face a couple of veterans in every race with way better teams.
And yes, I get it. That's the start we all had to take. Doesn't mean it's something we can't work on. Low variability and specific daily races are in my eyes the most frustrating things next to a sausage team in general. How many months have to pass once you are slightly satisfied with your team? To give you more options to ride different races or raise your chances to win a race? And how active do you have to be for this? Not everyone is dedicated enough to play this game daily and take the long grind.
Another point, whats maybe a bit underrated, is the learning experience. Climbers, classics, pave, sprinters. I don't wanna read about it as a newbie. I wanna play it and see what's more fun. That would be a good reason for the tutorials. Give newbies the option to try different things out until they finally pick their team.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Hanse » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 pm

Other question, who is running the C4F Facebook page? maybe we could try to get a bit more active? allow more people to post stuff on there and everyone who plays c4f should share it so we find new people
Hansa

Lets try to make RSF great again.
The game is great but lets try to get old Players back and get some new ones.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Pokemon Club » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:44 pm

Hanse wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 pm
Other question, who is running the C4F Facebook page? maybe we could try to get a bit more active? allow more people to post stuff on there and everyone who plays c4f should share it so we find new people
Facebook is the past, Instagram is what fit the most C4F if you want a social media

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Hanse » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:50 pm

Pokemon Club wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:44 pm
Hanse wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 pm
Other question, who is running the C4F Facebook page? maybe we could try to get a bit more active? allow more people to post stuff on there and everyone who plays c4f should share it so we find new people
Facebook is the past, Instagram is what fit the most C4F if you want a social media
ok in this case can we start an instagram page with a few guys running it?
Hansa

Lets try to make RSF great again.
The game is great but lets try to get old Players back and get some new ones.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by RV Berlin Sued » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:28 pm

A quite interessting discussion.
First of all: I'm not active anymore and I had always some problems with C4F, so I often played a few month, then lost my motivation , got inactive and started again at some time.

B2T:

1) Instagram: It's a cool thing but you will need someone who is active and feed it. There I see the big problem, what content will you offer on picture-based platform?

2) To get new players you have to be interesting. At the moment it's a pay to play game or a "do stupid short races to get race points until you can do the real thing" game. Also it's old-fashioned that you can only use the app by holding the license. Of course you should have an advantage, when you support the game with your money but in this case I don't think it will help to find new players. At least I would reactivate the 10 race points per month. Nobody will learn the racing by doing short races. Of course it can help but imho you learn racing by racing.

3) The start amount of 15M. Also something you should change. When I started with C4F there were most races on prime time splitted in 2 fields. So the weaker teams could fight each other and had their development. Like Pro-Tour and Continental-Tour. Now every new team has to face the big players. With your standard of being a realistic cycling game this is a big problem. The good thing: the new players can learn a lot. But they can also be frustrated when there is no success and every single action they do is commented by the big players. They have no chance to grow within the game. You can throw them into the water to teach them swimming, but when you need them - or at least what them to stay -you should give them some help.

4) Gameplay, Homepage and GDPR: In 2017 I offered my help to Buh and the others. Although I'm no expert in programming I'm keen on such things and I would've learned the basics to do that. I was told they will look where help is needed and that was all. Imho the frontend needs an update. The game looks out of date.
Last year I told the team that the page and the forum is not up to date considering the GDPR. Until now nothing changed. Although I'm not playing the game I follow you and I visit the homepage a few times per year. Everytime I'm hoping for some progress, some news. But like Chense said (greetings by the way^^) a dead board and a game with no progress is bad PR.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:19 am

Good posts!

I like Hansa's enthusiasm a lot, I hope he doesn't lose it too soon.
More money for beginners to me seems to be a good idea, with the restriction that they have to buy 10 riders, not 9. To avoid salary trouble. Another problem though is that few new players start anyway... So yes, it's advertisement. Buhmann used to pay for ads every year before the Tour (or maybe earlier), and usually saw an increase, but that's spending money... and doubt the game is really making much if any money.
Other problems for beginners? It's really the real beginners, of which we had few in the past years that should post their experiences here, they lived through that, we oldies only observe, and maybe don't see all the problems they can have. People like Carrera, Tommy (who stopped already) ADC (if he's a real beginner?) Bahrain, Valverde, Kelme etc. should write down their opinion, what should be done better to help newcomers develop, to make it a bit easier for them. SWE and Joy qualify too, but knowing their level of trolling not much can be expected of them when it comes to constructive contributions.

Good post by RV Berlin Sued too.
On 2, correct, the problem is that the game isn't making money though. And while we all have our favorite theories on why the game has less players than it used to have to (no development, toxicity, the nations committee, my personal one is the bad sprint system) in the end THAT introduction, paying while no more free races, most likely had the biggest impact. But again, the financial thing... The guy who runs the game, Luques nowadays, shouldn't be losing money to keep the game running. I have no real idea about how the financial situation actually is. But I know that if even I can afford the licence, most people here can too :lol: Buy it! Yearly licence, go for it! (I got the one for life, cheaper, but Luques makes more money if you pay every year for 11 years or more)
That said a better solution than the one we have now should be found somehow. But I don't have it.


The biggest problem is the number of players, yes... advertisement... how? Don't know, in the past I posted some stuff in forums, don't think got a single player from there, gave myself the name radsportfreaks.com in Trackmania, don't think anybody came either... I'm definitely not a marketing wizard, but those who are.. go for it! Active facebook page might help too, even if it's old. But maybe that's something Luques could give to somebody else to do, for a while I think he tried to keep it active, but with less time probably now not anymore.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Pokemon Club » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:46 pm

Well first of all Luques need to have time, after we will see

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by olmania » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:38 pm

Lots of interesting things here.
I remember we had similar talks a few years ago already; but maybe on more specific topics . And the situation has changed as the ones running the game are different now it seems.

I won't do a long post about all perspectives, opportunities and detailed plans possible. That's very interesting to discuss, but it seems we all want actions and not only talks.

I will just point one positive thing here : many players are willing to help in a way or another.

What if we create/offer different groups : community management, programming, animation, marketing stuff, etc. and see who is willing to take engagement to be part of one of these groups/teams to help the game ?
Once we have our list of managers ready to help, it would be easier to organize a way to offer help to Luques. We could do a poll or a topic to list the comitments then.

Theses groups/teams could work on their own objectives with common aims fixed by the community/Luques => we could find a way to decide that fits to all (by voting for it ?) ... but that's a step for later already.
Today, let's see who's ready to commit to help a bit/lot the game to survive and develop positively again !


Here are the first possible groups/teams I thought about after reading you :
- Programming (I don't know the details about it to list things)
- CM (community management - social media (content creation) - newsletter - ingame newspaper - forum rebuild and animation/moderation)
- Marketing management (if there is a budget for that ? and even without ?) (communication outside the game - ads - press relations - design (creation content with CM)).
- Ingame help (tutorship program for new players - re-writing the beginners help (self-tutorship help) - re-writing rules and FAQ)

Please add your ideas, criticize mine from that first short list.

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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Z&B » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:39 pm

Let's start with the "marketing management" and "social media". Instagram, Facebook.. I see a big problem with the content you can post there, especially Instagram. Or maybe I'm not that creative. But what do you wanna publish there? Updates to the game? Stats of important races? Interviews with players? Pictures of the game?

Updates would be nice, but I don't wanna imagine how much time you have to sacrifice for it. I'm not a programmer, but it's probably a pain in the ass to work with a code someone else has written. So yeah, if there's another guy who is willing to suffer through all of it without getting paid, then take the opportunity. Since Luques is pretty alone in that category and we have to deal with that "problem" for a long time now, I doubt there is someone in our community that can actually help.
Stats of important races aren't interesting for someone who isnt playing this game. Sure, you can post it now and then anyway, but don't exaggerate it.
Interviews or comments from established players could help. Saying why you keep playing this old game and what's good about it that you don't see with the eyes of a newbie.
Pictures (Intagram!) are pretty boring of a more or less text based browser game without many visible action.

If you really wanna try to keep a social media section updated, then you have to think about ways to keep it interesting.

Gipfelstuermer
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Re: What future for RSF ?

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:02 pm

olmania wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:38 pm

I will just point one positive thing here : many players are willing to help in a way or another.
olmania, I 100% agree and we can for sure form teams like that. We already have such teams. The FPC. The NC. The designers (which is more of an open team but some designers are always around). Why not have The Marketing Committee, The New Player Support Committee and the Coding Committee?

But the thing really is, for all these committees luques has to give them Power to do something. And not even sure if it is always luques or if lesossies and Buh do some small things? Who really owns the game?

So give Power to the committees! This also means enabling and teaching the members at the beginning.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Technic: Bug Fix! Non-Flash Version! Improve App!
Gameplay: Revolutionize Min-Tact, Sprint System, Windkante!
Marketing: Re-attract old players! Advertisement! Social Media!
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial, Free Trial License!

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