The Real GIRO 2023 14h

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schappy
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by schappy » Mon May 22, 2023 4:35 pm

For sure, i am not happy. forget to fight and ride after sieb with Jonson. Lose a good position in GC.

But the week was very Interesting. i was a little bit disappointet, nobody tries to escape at Stage 10 and 11. On Stage 11 first attack was at km 57. Very strange. But maybe i was responible for this, nobody wants group with my points hunter in the first week. Maybe more communication ist better. This was the next thing, what disappointed me. It is the best Giro ever, and nobody really talks in the chat. Stage 12 i didnt recognize, watching an importand Foodball match. I was happe about it.
Stage 13, the big full HC stage and a very good move from Multi, but of course a litte sleeping field.
All in all very good Tour from AAD and CC in my eyes. I am looking forward for the next six stages. Donkey have to win stages, or he will cry. So we all hope, he will win a stage.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon May 22, 2023 5:52 pm

Rest day, no recipe, but interview with the Gipfelstuermer directeur sportif Vittore VESPA... brumm brumm:

Signore Vespa, your team lost the maglia azzurra this week, couldn't get a stage win in week 2 and you have no rider in the Top 10?

But we still have the maglia nera !

Seriously, what happened with the maglia azzurra?

Oleksandr tried to keep it, but Schappy did everything to conquer it with Oberdorf. Congrats to him. Oberdorf obviously much stronger in the mountains than Oleksandr. But I still think it's a waste of talent.

What do you mean?

Oberdorf won LBL. Podium in MSR and Il Lombardia. Super strong rider. Schappy is also with an expensive team here. They have many great domestiques for Oberdorf. And then they ride for maglia azzurra?

You mean they should target the maglia rosa instead?

Si! Of course!

A bit weak from you to claim that just because you lost the jersey.

Back in the good old days , I myself road for GC sometimes and I was only half as talented as Oberdorf! Or look at Moser. Not a typical climber either, less famous than Oberdorf, but 2nd in GC at the moment.

And is that a reason to attack the grupetto?

Well, if you control for maglia azzurra on the biggest mountain stage of the Giro... you cannot expect others to ride for you in Grupetto afterwards.

So you really had to attack from grupetto?

Look, attack was maybe too much. In the heat of the moment. Not proud of it but it's also not unfair or illegal, so no need to talk only about that.

Let's talk about stage wins then. Why no stage win in week 2?

We really have to talk about that, too? We won 2 stages in week 1! And of course we try again in week 3!

But you looked at the profiles, yes? You have no climber, no sprinter and no TT specialist.

Well, nobody predicted that Mosconi would win in a sprint. And nobody predicted that Medina would win on Gran Sasso. It's not always the favorite who wins.

So what's your prediction for the maglia rosa?

Seems like Volta will carry it Rome, because peloton was very well controlled so far. Good job by AAD. But this Giro is so backloaded... it really only starts now... let's see if there is a surprise rider with a surprise attack.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue May 23, 2023 7:50 am

Tappa 16: Pizzoccheri della Valtellina
(From Antonio's recipe book 'Gemüse')
Similar recipe: https://www.lacucinaitaliana.it/ricetta ... altellina/

Today the Lago di Garda stage. We used to say it's a suburb of Munich and it's true, but let's stick to local cuisine. The Pizzoccheri are pasta made out of buckwheat flour, similar to French Crozets, but formed like short Tagliatelle. Antonio adds potatoes, spinach and local cheese. Lovely.

The stage is also a lovely up and down, perfect for climbers with the Monte Bondone mountain top finish. Nice start to an exciting last week. We hope to see some action from GC teams, but fear it will be completely controlled because of the stage order that RCS created for this week.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 23, 2023 6:43 pm

Hm, today should have won. Didn't care much about Crans (looked forward to the stage, but was happy showing my non-working credentials there) today the way it went, should have won. But concentrated too much on Volta and GC, 3 siebkm for Payot, pretty sure everybody fought, so think it did help me a tiny bit vs Volta, but not against Clément. Oh, 4 km even, thought to get rid of some dead would on the 9... And of course the 2 last siebs were unnecessary, the goal was to drop Chau, no help for Volta, ride with Rossi ahead, but should have ridden the 5 with Steiner instead. So Chau back. Especially the sieb on the 8 was bad, 8 does less damage fighting wise than 10.. only the 10 better.
When to go, last 9, 7 or the 8? Probably 7 was the worst decision? 9 Clément wasn't even trying to follow. Last 8, was afraid of Clément-Perisic blocks there, for stage, and they definitely had stage chances if they manage to block and catch Payot. Absolutely ok to try to block there, so no. 7 or 9, let Volta lose 1 km more energy, nobody expects the 7, go there. For stage should have gone at the 9. Stupid, and today the way it went, stage was the goal... but maximising GC. Failed. So Thursday or Friday then. For Payot, Rrurrambu of course wants to try too. Tomorrow and Sunday!

Today start on mobile, very annoying. Didn't handicap me at all I think, but it's just not the same, it's just not fun to stand in a train staring at the mobile and reloading, reloading. Attack, AAD controls, probably wasn't even that necessary, only Hill dangerous with a potential Hill attack. The Gipfel attack was clear, but not dangerous at all for GC. Rossi following though was dangerous, but then speed up, as he did. Good control on that one, was clear I wouldn't be able to try to get go on the Serrada, was always going to be sieb-pull then, even attack down on the Bondone and then go was highly unlikely, was clear Chau had to ride there pretty early, especially if the advantage to the group was big enough. Which it wasn't anyway for an attack, just for the failed sieb-pull (that gives me little advantage, 5 km 1 helper vs 0, but I take every second, or try to at least.

Good control by AAD, got my 12", hoped for more, getting the full bonifications and Volta 0.... would have been 20".. much better. 2" really no good in bonifications.

Tomorrow sprint I expect, I will help, but only towards the end. First some helping for some guys who want to be fit on Friday, then I'm mostly off for the first hour anyway, and finally I have 88 sprint only, FL 90 with train and a presumably fit enough team to chase the few attackers that we can expect tomorrow.
Thursday the escape might have a chance, for AAD and me it will be a lot about keeping our helpers fit... the relay station attack risk on that stage is pretty minimal after the first hill, before ok, small danger, more energy consumption danger than actual GC danger though, if some climber goes on the first hill and has 5' advantage and 2 flat riders.. he will catch them, but risks spending lots of energy... so he might work there, then not anymore for the rest of the stage, or he might let the group go thinking that any attacker knows that he will be caught in the long flat section... We'll see. FRiday then hard stage, that will be a climbers win pretty sure, I'm here nonstop as well (unlike thursday, presumably full stage on mobile, well, almost full stage, normally miss the first few kms grrrrrr.... HOpe not to see the whole peloton ahead when I come on. Might do some green tempo to start. Might not. We'll see. (If I do it you'll see it early.... before 12:20..)

GC looks easy for Payot, if you are an optimist like the Donkey. Some people might give some little chance to Volta.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Wed May 24, 2023 8:39 am

Yeah Hill attack was the only reason not to give that group 25min. My fear was that the classics already jump to the group on the first climb, there with some Donkey/VC classics involved. Then it might get more dangerous, so plan was to at least let the pullers work nonstop and keep them close enough to avoid that scenario. But the more I think about it, I probably forced them into the classics action myself. Nevertheless, when they are at 15min and roll in front, there is not much I can do against a good timed attack, and the only advantage I have are more fit Loschmidt/Avogadro riders, ok nearly lost my guys there but that risk I needed to take. :lol:

Stage final was then manageable losing some seconds here and there not the problem. Forgot to put in fighting for Chau first on the mountain. Was a clever move that was not intended. Probably not let Hill attack in the flat better, get rid of him that day would probably be possible, giving Volta more space against that threat but my Chau sec trick failed.

Will also offer some help for the MS, but like Donkey need to get some guys fit, so not too much expected. I thought this flat stages are rather short, probably only the last one :?:
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by CircleCycle » Wed May 24, 2023 9:55 am

Hill attack yesterday? Didn't think of that. Any potential follower of such attack has much more gain of it than Hill has. Going for stagewin together with Gipfel looked like the better plan.
The actual Hill attack later quite good. Favorite now to get p4 in the gc, really hope to finish in front of Steiner. But maybe crazy things happen in the last stages, who knows.

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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 26, 2023 5:02 pm

Good I won yesterday, was even perfect that Chau was a bit under reg, so somehow better than the safety stage win after all. But no fun from the mobile.

Today then could risk the stage (if I hadn't won yesterday, would have won today, just wait till the final 4 km with Payot, tempo, attack last km) and try the GC. Attack at the bottom of the Giau, Steiner red, Payot green, little risk that Volta follows. But Perisic and Clévenot might, 2 guys that might help, Perisic for GC, well he has to, more reg, more TT, same place in GC, Clévenot if we promise him the stage, but since he started under reg, didn't matter that he wasn't there. No need for FL! Only in the Gruppetto, thanks for the very nice work for Rrurrambu, Ceroni, Vanuytsel, I was risking them out today without friendly FL!
Anyway, if Perisic is there, excellent, we go in red on the Tre Croci, ride through, lose less energy, are both in reg hopefully and can hope to gain back quite a bit of time. In the back Volta can really only ride the end, otherwise he's out of reg, so hoped he goes with Chau immediately, staying very close, possibly even getting us back in the downhill (then downhill tempo needed by Payot) but then risking to lose time in the Tre Croci, IF I go with Payot and not Steiner.

But well, no Perisic, 3 other guys instead, Belaili, very anonymous Giro, helping the youngster. Hill, who was interested in cooperation, but weak, as could be expected, and Horejsi, who wasn't. Which is ok, he won the stage like that, why would he work if I have to work anyway? No problem, of course hoped that he would, but well, no need to. An answer would have been nice though, but well... that's celt. Actually better riding than I expected overall, much better than I'm used to, half expected him to attack from the group at some point even though it was pretty clear he would drop me just with tempo... but even he got it....now he has to learn to communicate!

Second favorite situation would actually have been no followers at all. Then I can manage it differently, then Payot does the Giau blue,, helps in the downhill too a bit, takes Steiner over the Tre Croci, blue or red depending on energy situation, so that Steiner can do the reg killing flat kilometers. Not sure how fast that is, but seemed logical to try it like that.

But well, I got another situation, so just had to continue,
Waited too long with GC attacks probably, should have tried to Crans probably... Bondone difficult, Crans seemed a better opportunity, go in escape there... Waited too long, but AAD defended well too.
And while today I was far from winning the Giro, it wouldn't have taken much to get a real chance, Perisic there for example (probably still something missing), or even better a mistake by Volta in the back.

Mountain looks Popp, I really would have preferred Oberhofer... but ok, Popp... not completely sure Schappy actually deserves it, he was soooo passive so much, had it after Crans, sewed up, IF he just gets a few more, just take the Simplon the next day. Not even a risk losing GC places... or then to Bergamo, try here and there to get some points, but he was just doing nothing... so yesterday bad Donkey punished him by giving the points to Payot.. but since today he finally worked for that blue again, ok, today nice Donks, he can have it. But if Payot gets third tomorrow, the gets it, but doesn't look like it, Volta-Perisic-Horejsi should all be ahead of him.

But ok, today at least I tried, IMO good attempt, probably as I said should have tried to come closer earlier, but credit to AAD for defending well, not only today, but earlier too. And except Crans really don't really see that many good opportunities to try.

Hope to keep the team classification! Care much more about that then the ugly blue Mediolanum (Berlusconistuff) idiocy, if it was green as it should be would care more.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 26, 2023 5:28 pm

Well, well. Not done yet, but rest should work out for Volta!

Last stages, terribly energy level wise. Avogardo and Loschmidt finishing with 0 yesterday, cannot remember when deCoulomb was on 1000 the last time (Probably around the time he peaked his form for the 2 hill stages).

My whole plan for today was, having Tesla on topform and hope to be able to get him fit to the stage. He started with 980 so that worked out. The Steiner/ Payot attack on the Giau today was expected, but after he already did it yesterday at the Cabiana I really expected EVERYBODY in the wheel of Steiner, but nothing else than just riding behind and hope its enough to be done with my 40 reg guys and the stage tomorrow. Luckily no Perisic there. Good I was on the way to the tramway when I put Tesla in on the first Giau km. Otherwise I might have changed my tactics and go in with Chau, but was ok as it was planned, 1:32 on top of the Giau and Payot in virtual rosa. Tesla winning back time in the downhill, 59s after the downhill when Payot already had to ride and Chau made the pace behind, lost again that half minute up the climb, than gained back some time, 1:11 at the foot of the last really steep climb. Volta with the sieb, Perisic riding the downhill, after that waiting for the Schappy youngster, 56s there and very steep kms to come, no time gained as Horejsi took over tempo and cost Payot much energy, dropped after 2km. In the back Perisic attacking "early", Volta with the counter, securing place 3 and Rosa, finishing 22s behind Payot.

Tomorrow probably on a bit on smart phone, but not much to check. Now with Payot under reg, I cannot even see if my fear of those +13, +18 climb TT kms was justified. Now I really see Volta as the favorite (also concerning form).
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by schappy » Sat May 27, 2023 8:54 am

First of all, thank you guys for the nice Giro. No one make and talk Bullshit. Really good.

For the GK i mean, AAD did a brilliant job. He have done, what he have to do. It is not thes funniest riding to do everything for the Favorites in the races. He also do its really good in the Sprint-Stages with Tesla and Iwanschenko. At the Donkey, i am not really sure, if he thought about riding for Steiner. At the first week it looks like. Clevenot past the Prolo-TT and with 35 Reg, its hard to gain Time. Hill do his best, but he trains Mountain to late. Perisic should be happy with his 3rd Place.

The stages where very interesting. Not very much groups, maybe my fault, maybe i had to ride for fun, not for other things. Everybody has his stages with good moves and good attacks. So everybody should be happe about this.

My own Giro:
My target at the Beginning was the Stage in Bergamo where Oberdorf have best Form. The Team-Classement and 4 good places in the GC. But it doenst work good, 2nd place could take as good result. But we dont have a stage. And we have an eye on the Team Classement, but the group with 16:24 minutes in the 8. Stage it costs me, but i am not riding at the 8. stage for this. So we have to look what we can get. We decide to make Mountain points and looking forward for the Crans montana Stage. We get some Points before this stage and 90 Points at this stage, but was not in the back of the field and lose the good GC places with Jonsson and Kostyuk. i Really doesnt see the KOM at the last ITT so i thought i get it, even if Payot win the three mountain stages in the last week, doesnt thought, he will get so muss points at stage 18. So we have to save it maybe with an last good scape yesterday. So it seems i was sleeping, but i really make some thoughts about the stages. So, it seems i win nothing here, but i had fun.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 29, 2023 8:29 pm

Cannot even find the final results, Volta, Payot, Perisic the podium. Stage win statistic might follow tomorrow. Sorry for missing the last stage, don't even know who won it, and just saw that Iwachnenko won the Ciclamino (there was some rest chance for Park). Alive And Dominance -> DIVISION 1

Thanks for having a nice GIRO, and yes, the race was badly designed. Very late Topform for Volta (day before the ITT), 1) having an easy stage chance at the final mountain ITT 2) biggest time loss potential. Chau had topform earlier, I think at the Crans Montana. VC surprised about my form planning, everybody esle more surprised by his form planning. Good he made a big mistake when having the better form. Was a bit worried about him having good form being able to follow Payot for example.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by team fl » Mon May 29, 2023 9:05 pm

The Giro is over this year. Volta won the GC convincingly. Frits had a lucky finish with the win in the last stage. Looking at the whole Giro, the ITTs decided it mostly. And very good control by Alive And Dead who even managend to get the Maglia Ciclamino for Owachnenko additionally to the Maglia Rosa for Volta with very good cooperation either with the sprint, or the hill sprint teams.

Besides that, the Giro showed quite a variety of different stage winners, 16 (!) to be exact. And almost all teams got their stage win. All but Schappy, who managed to secure the Maglia Azzurra with Popp though, 2 points ahead of Payot, who got his stage win too in the last week. The most boring thing this Giro really was the Maglia Bianca, that has been reserved for Mehdi Nassouli since the start of the Giro. Mehdi rode quietly but steadily until the finish line in Rome. Red lantern deserves a call too: Peter Schmalen got it, also pretty much uncontested.

The decision for the most active rider during the Giro is bit more difficult. Is it a relentless escaper like Outchakov for example? Or a climber like Payot who was the most active climber in the mountains? My vote goes to Payot. Not only was he the only one who really tried to contest the Maglia Rosa, he risked a lot, even giving up stage wins for time gains in the GC. And that's the spirit. Most active team in escapes was Gipfelstuermer though, very likely.

So finally, GW to all winners, when all teams particiapting in the afternoon Giro are winners essentially. And for those, how don't like to read a lot or still want to read more, here are the statistics:

Maglia Rosa: Alessandro Volta (Alive And Dead)
2nd place: Guillaume Payot (Big Donkey)
3rd place: Luka Perisic (VC Team Multi)

Maglia Azzurra: Alexandra Popp (Schappy)

Maglia Ciclamino: Oleksij Iwachnenko (Alive And Dead)

Maglia Bianca: Mehdi Nassouli (SouthWest Packers)

Team classement: Big Donkey

Stage wins by riders:

3 - Frits Flaskjaer (Team FL)
2 - Clément Clévenot (Team FL
2 - Elia Eldenkönig (CircleCycle)
2 - Oleksj Owachnenko (Alive And Dead)
1 - Mosconi (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Puma Park (CircleCycle)
1 - Meisen (CreditPommes)
1 - Tesla (Alive And Dead)
1 - Hill (CircleCycle)
1 - Medina (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Achaval (SouthWest Packers)
1 - Borovicka (celteam)
1 - Horesj (celteam)
1 - Moser (VC Team Multi)
1 - Payot (Big Donkey)
1 - Volta (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by teams:

5 - Team FL
4 - Alive And Dead
4 - CircleCycle
2 - celteam
2 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - Big Donkey
1 - CreditPommes
1 - SouthWest Packers
0 - Schapyy
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon May 29, 2023 10:53 pm

Many thanks for the Giro, all the race reports, the statistics and the mostly friendly race chat.

It was an impressive second Giro win in a row for AAD and an impressive ciclamino win, too, against the experienced ciclamino teams like FL (who collected an impressive number of stage wins though).

There are many things we can learn from this group and we hope to come back for the GIRO 2024 with a stronger GC team.

Of course in the meantime we'll target some other races and keep improving this game :)
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 30, 2023 5:32 pm

Giro review, if possible short, we will see how that turns out.

Donks rather bad. Yes, go for GC ahead of stages, still, out of 5 clear chances got only 1....

1) Gran Sasso: The great FL attack took me by complete surprise. So had no clue how to react, continued with my embarrassingly weak "60-80es". Somehow thought that's enough, clearly wasn't. Good work early by CC keeping all close, once I came on helped (I think), assume he had 100 form that day? So not wrong to do more, we probably were similar in strength then? Or no clue, Payot had form on Zoldo, so 87 then? Ok, Hill 0.5 stronger then, but Payot still with chances, ok that CC worked more, not ok how I fucked it up really. Payot then won the sprint, ok that can go any way.

2) Crans Montana: That one I gave up voluntarily. Nice attack with Moser by Multi. Ok, if he really had Perisic on top form there, and it looked that way, maybe a bit strange to ride for Moser, but the attack was nice, deserved freedom. I gain little by riding after him, ok a stage win.. .but possibly an enemy, plus it was a nice attack, let him go. Let AAD control, show more that I don't want to ride at all.

The final week, was confident I would easily win at least one, more likely 2, possibly 3 of the stages:

3) Monte BondoneToo cocky, too sure of Payot's superiority, too concentrated on trying to make Volta fight for an extra second time gain... Attack then in a km where good flat climbers had a better chance of following, but thought they might block the last 8%, for stage chances. 7%, Clévenot follows, wins. Bad Donks again

4) Zoldo: Ridden badly again, resulting in a win. Considering the next day, just play it safe, go in the final climb, first part probably. Lost my nerve (lots to do with playing from mobile and not eager to look for when exactly to go in that later climb) If AAD isn't overly cautious about energy and spends 2 km without riding (and then complaining about not enough help by other climbers for the stage.. hihi) I probably don't get through, have STeiner slightly under reg and possibly even lose time to Volta. Ok, Chau then more under reg... Positive was that, Chau under reg, a bit, negative the unnecessary risk of not winning the stage. Topform Payot, 99 Steiner, 99 Lekubarri, I had that one under control easily. If risk, then the great CC plan, that I simply didn't see on the mobile, but looked VERY tempting when seeing it on the computer and knowing what to look for. Hope I would have seen it from the computer by myself, then not sure if I try or not.

5) Tre Cime: Went for the GC try there, biggest hope was having Perisic with me, didn't work, like that stage win unlikely, but had to try the GC attack. While it failed miserably in the end of course, it can work. Would probably end up closer on GC without the try, but how does that help me? Exactly, doesn't. Hope for Perisic (or other collaborators, falsely thought Clé might be one, he wasn't fit) to be with you and go. Hope for AAD having to invest too much, having to go slightly under reg, even just 40 is nice, if I stay in reg not enough, but if then it becomes 80... who knows. So no stage, but no problem here, knew it was risky and most likely would not end up in a stage win (unless I'm alone maybe), that's why the stupidity the day before was so dumb. If I don't win in Zoldo, I would simply have gone for the stage here. Because 1, yes, 1 I needed. Again, if I ride for that I have it quite easily. Have the team, have the top rider have the form.

Rest of my team:
Wasn't strong, knew that. 4 top riders with 74 to 89 mountain, the rest... a good sprinter, a flat rider with 36 reg and 58 mountain (we still don't know why he has that)... a tourist, Pecci, 2 weaklings as 60-80. Rrurrambu either not in sprints or then either doesn't get the hoped for wheel or... or somehow the whole sprint setup is so bad that he has no chance anyway. He's very unhappy with how the Giro went. Pecci and Vanuytsel wanted to attack to Roma, but I came late for the early attack not work this time, just Donks lazyness, missed the timing for the final one, that wouldn't have worked anyway.

Generally:
AAD finally won the GC and the points comfortably, which is a bit depressing, even annoying. Especially since he brought 4 "non riding" riders... The 2 climbers and Iwachnenko and Tesla, so a 5 man helper team (I'm aware that 3 of the 4 "non riders" can be used as helpers in mountain stages, but much less in middle mountain stages, which are decisive for ciclamino.... and possible GC attacks) Thinking back at Tirreno where I was left riding almost every day the whole stage (except the day I then won it.. hihi) with very little help at times, for rather mysterious reasons, annoying that AAD got help from everywhere Which is ok, still annoying to win both jerseys with such a team really

GC decisive:
-Good defensive riding by AAD, never (or few, I'm sure there was some mistake somewhere, there always is) making a mistake.
-Perisic losing 48" to Crans Montana while having topform (presumably)
-Donks doing nothing at all until ... Bondone? And there rather stupid things. Then when Donks did try, especially on the 2 last days see point 1, AAD reacted well.

Nobody except these 3 ever really had a chance, I actually thought even Perisic had none, but he would have without that 48"... and somehow think he mentioned some problem with the first TT? But from the result seems to have been there? Only Clévenot not then?
Anyway, with Perisic these 48" closer he can "stalk" Volta a bit. Not endlessly, he needs at least one reasonably big time gain, but for the rest he can hope to gain time by relying on Volta and Payot going a bit earlier.
In retrospect for me actually Perisic losing those 48" wasn't bad, I could hope to have him on my wheel at some point.

Donks late, first real option was of course Gran Sasso, was off the first hour I think. Or was that just off the start? First hour I think...Otherwise can try to send somebody in the escape to attack on the pre-climb (or part of the final one, flat section before) Wouldn't work, probably wouldn't do it anyway, even if on.
Crans Montana: Was thinking about it there, go in the escape with Ceroni... second one with Vanuystel, something like that, depending on how it then develops go with a classic in the Gran San Bernardo, try. Then decided that chances were better without me, let CC go, he would try something if he has 2 riders ahead... he went, I was happy, not riding for sure, let AAD work... Good thing didn't try, Schappy then decided to ride for the mountain jersey. Otherwise maybe Hill could have tried? Debated myself for days if I should try to follow with Steiner or not, decided not, let AAD deal with Hill alone, no need to diminish Hills chances by being there whitout being able to work before Crans and probably having AAD ride faster. But Schappy rode anyway... AAD didn't seem to see the danger, not sure if CC said that he didn't plan anything anway or if that was another day.
The most annoying thing with the Schappy Oberhofer GPM tempo was that after that stage he just sat on his ass and did nothing... Go and assure it dammit, you had 500 chances to do that and didn't do anything. So decided to get it myself on the Zoldo stage, points for Payot not Steiner, usually probably wouldn't care about putting losing in for Steiner. But since Schappy then FINALLY tried on the Tre Cime stage (although not with Oberhofer but some Papp weakling, Popp, Plopp. whatever) decided to do the opposite there and possibly let him have that stupid jersey. Probably shouldn't have, he really had more than enough chances to get it after the Crans stage, by not trying after it made the "destruction" of any GC attempt on the Crans stage really look just destructive.. (of course his tempo there in principle is absolutely ok,, he wants the mountain jersey, then he rides for it, shouldn't bother him if it disturbs other peoples plans, ride for your goals, but by not doing anything after... it delegitimizes it a bit, ride for it properly! ) But ok ok, he finally tried, so let him have it since I actually really don't care that much for it. And was in a good mood probably, happens once every 7 months 2 weeks and 27 hours, so good that he could take advantage of it.

Bondone, not ideal for an attack from far, nothing, don't really remember much except stupid attempts at siebs.
Zoldo on mobile, so in a bad mood the whole stage, wasn't going to do anything intelligent under those conditions. c4f is supposed to be fun. On the mobile it just isn't.
3 Cime, maybe other possibilities there, but took the obvious one and tried, didn't work. But think it wasn't bad, as I said, takes only a mistake by AAD, Perisic with me, to make that attack much much more dangerous.

Finally second place, was going to defend that on the way to Rome if Perisic tried some sprint bonifications, now it's about money, so ok, I want it too, since the win is gone, but he didn't try, so easy sprint and another hopeless 3rd place for Rrurrambu.

Normally should win around 10 stages in the tour, including GC. See you in July.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Wed May 31, 2023 10:56 am

Compared to 2022, limited number of errors. Can just remember one bigger one at stage 12, beeing too greedy trying for the 2nd Tesla win. Putting some (of my few) helpers under reg and finally beeing siebed by Payot with Volta not fighting at the Braida. Here the potential to lose some 10-20s against all the climbers was there. Also not sure if Volta stays if I fight (91 form there, not too steep so should have), but the climber action really weakened my riders and Tesla's chance to win the stage. Save the GC seconds there was more important. Letting FL get the stage with the early escape whould have been best.

As the donkey said, my team was full of non usable riders. I would also be annoyed to be beaten with those. Loschmidt+Avodagro the clear controllers, but appart from that, very thin. Iwachnenko there to ride the early mountains (always risking to drop deCoulumb who was never fit with his 38reg). deCoulomb, just there for that one flatter HS stage. From the classics, only Prachar was usable for some control, others would have been too risky to put under reg. Really missed a rider like Srivastav this Giro (controlling on the flat stages with the reg, riding for HS and KS). VC wanted to start some action against my team somewhere starting from stage 8 (the one where the group got 30mins) but he was not online for most parts of the GIRO and then just concentrated on complaining, that I don't have to ride/not beeing attacked enough (which is true). After all he could have been the team to bring my classics out of reg, like last year Team-Mojabahs did. But attacking Rosa with the climber in the flat on stage 17 is still something I really dislike. Attack with Moser there or a classic to let me ride at some point, fair enough. Was also annoyed by Gip going with Medina, but that's ok.

Didn't see much alternatives for my team, Ohm (36 reg), probably Sievert would have been the best option to replace? hm most likely Iwachnenko, but he seemed to be my biggest stage win candidate. Tesla was needed for the last week as I don't have very good classics in my team. All in all, the Ciclamino was a nice to have, but I actually never thought I could win it, was more than happy with the very good cooperation with CC and also partly Gip for the HS. Sometimes it put me under more pressure, as I wanted to go for it because of them, while GC wise it would have been better to just let the sprinters back and save some energy. Winning it offline on the last stage is a bit annoying though. Always thought CC goes for the Park escape some day. He also did try this on stage 15 , but on that stage before the rest day, I cannot let CC attack with 4 riders. At least if I can avoid it with one early km Chau tempo at the +5 right after the Park attack.
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 31, 2023 11:19 am

Well, it's not like I had more usable riders either, Pecci with 50 mountain no reg... Gurruwiwi a bit like De Coulomb, except he almost never did anything so was usually fittish. But work once, dead forever. Ceroni with 47 was that, often dead. The 2 60-80 without 60 just a bit too weak anyway as well. I really should have brought Amancio, but in my quest to start closer to 500k than 600k, teams with weaknesses make races more interesting than teams without (of course wiht 577k I failed badly once again) I took Pecci instead. So I didn't really have the team to put similarly handicapped AAD team under pressure...
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by CircleCycle » Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:51 pm

Hill form on Gran Sasso, that seemed obvious choice to me. Chance for 3 stage wins if Payot goes for every chance, luckily managed to win one. Too many offline times overall and especially in last week took most of the fun out.
Could steal the ciclamino on Sunday? Probably, but couldn't do anything except setting a 50m sprint for Park.

Park a bit of a dissapointment, could win 1 stage, but rather chanceless in the other stages. The 60-80s did well to get the sprints, but then Park was just not strong enough.
Eldenkönig won the 2 TTs, that was good. defended maglia rosa as long as it made some sense. then fell back rather far.

Good news of the Giro is still that Hill now is 87. Means he will try to win TdF.

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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:40 am

CircleCycle wrote:
Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:51 pm
Hill form on Gran Sasso, that seemed obvious choice to me. Chance for 3 stage wins if Payot goes for every chance, luckily managed to win one. Too many offline times overall and especially in last week took most of the fun out.
Could steal the ciclamino on Sunday? Probably, but couldn't do anything except setting a 50m sprint for Park.

Park a bit of a dissapointment, could win 1 stage, but rather chanceless in the other stages. The 60-80s did well to get the sprints, but then Park was just not strong enough.
Eldenkönig won the 2 TTs, that was good. defended maglia rosa as long as it made some sense. then fell back rather far.

Good news of the Giro is still that Hill now is 87. Means he will try to win TdF.
Had about 1 online km way after the finish of the race on Sunday, so I didn't know. Yeah Hill looks good now, also with the TTT there
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by CircleCycle » Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:57 pm

TTT at TdF?! Must have missed that, but 14km at Vuelta vs 25km ITT are ok I think

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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:05 pm

Don't bother too much about AAD, he's lost his mind after winning the Giro. Misspells his riders names, sees TTTs where there are none... :lol:
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Re: The Real GIRO 2023 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:48 pm

Paris oder Madrid, Hauptsache Italien.
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