Spring Classics 2023

Discuss about the RSF Races

Moderator: englishmods

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:00 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:33 pm
Big Donkey in the afternoon. Petit Singe will be the DS.

1 R. Gamboa: "I believe in my chances" We don't. Leader due to lack of other leaders
2 A. Carpinteiro: "I'll help Gamboa come back after the Cipressa" Try to help depending on the guys ahead
3 L. Ceroni: "The boss is relying more and more on me, hope not to disappoint him". Actually only there for some loading
4 B. Gurruwiwi: "Oh, Big D. told me Bradman would start, so I'm here? Aboriginal power, we'll win" Bradman, what an idea...
5 R. Pecci: "Here to win, I'm Italian, I plan to win" Or help Rrurrambu until the Cipressa more likely
6 P. Rossi: "You'll see on the Poggio, Rossi drops everybody" Just stay with Gamboa sounds better
7 G. Rrurrambu: "The Poggio looks steep, the Cipressa worse. But this new DS wants me there" Well, why not, if others bring him back...
8 A. Short: "Still can contribute, I'm ready to ride for whoever feels best during the race" That will be Gamboa.
9 I. Vanuytsel: "Like Carpinteiro I'm supposed to help Gamboa after the Cipressa". See Carpinteiro

Team could still change, Trutat, Bradman, Drinkwater will fly to Milano as well, just in case.
Donks not even bringing his generational talent Verkerk.

Well, might bringt my B-team then too and ride for Ganna.
J-Czucz hype train

User avatar
flockmastoR
Posts: 3112
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:09 pm

Quick wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:00 pm
Robyklebt wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:33 pm
Big Donkey in the afternoon. Petit Singe will be the DS.

1 R. Gamboa: "I believe in my chances" We don't. Leader due to lack of other leaders
2 A. Carpinteiro: "I'll help Gamboa come back after the Cipressa" Try to help depending on the guys ahead
3 L. Ceroni: "The boss is relying more and more on me, hope not to disappoint him". Actually only there for some loading
4 B. Gurruwiwi: "Oh, Big D. told me Bradman would start, so I'm here? Aboriginal power, we'll win" Bradman, what an idea...
5 R. Pecci: "Here to win, I'm Italian, I plan to win" Or help Rrurrambu until the Cipressa more likely
6 P. Rossi: "You'll see on the Poggio, Rossi drops everybody" Just stay with Gamboa sounds better
7 G. Rrurrambu: "The Poggio looks steep, the Cipressa worse. But this new DS wants me there" Well, why not, if others bring him back...
8 A. Short: "Still can contribute, I'm ready to ride for whoever feels best during the race" That will be Gamboa.
9 I. Vanuytsel: "Like Carpinteiro I'm supposed to help Gamboa after the Cipressa". See Carpinteiro

Team could still change, Trutat, Bradman, Drinkwater will fly to Milano as well, just in case.
Donks not even bringing his generational talent Verkerk.

Well, might bringt my B-team then too and ride for Ganna.
Luckily, I just have a B-team, so don't have to worry about whom to bring
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
__________________
Schrödinger's Dogs: Alive & Dead

Gipfelstuermer
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:43 am
Location: Weltenbummler
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:24 pm

Missed Omloop because we were there on the Muur.
Missed Strade Bianche because we had visitors.

But the Gipfelstuermers plan to enter the Spring Classics tomorrow! Well, if the team managers group ride doesn't take too long... 15h start would have been better...

Good thing is, race takes very long, the siebs and attacks tend to come late at MSR... on the other hand, never good to miss the action on the first few km... we'll see how it goes.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

team fl
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by team fl » Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:02 pm

Team FL at 21h this time. Frits is ready and so is Grün. Who's captain has not been decided yet. And behind those two, Piano, Ventura, PrzPszcz and Juantorena are lurking too...
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Bear
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Bear » Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:56 pm

Team Bearclaw in for the evening too. Kalle will be #X01

User avatar
flockmastoR
Posts: 3112
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by flockmastoR » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:40 pm

9:00 Milano-Sanremo

Nikola wins MSR. Wow didn't expect that really.

Plan before seeing a group was like: Bring Tesla but going for Iwachnenko. Hope to have a second hill sprinter team with a slightly better sprinter and Tesla to cover the classics with 60+ sprint in a hill sprint. Additionally hive Tesla in a unlikely classics group that keep the hill sprinters away. Therefore form was set for Iwachnenko, Celsius, Heuser and deCoulomb. Ngo Bao Chau was there as the cheap loader that stays within the Iwachnenko group even when helping 270km (which worked but was closer than expected). Fall, Loschmidt and Watt to ride behind a first sieb at 140km or help to chase a group early if needed.

The morning field than a bit surprising. Alk with the mass of 60+80+ with Lesna at 63 sprint, lacking downhill overall. Samuelson, Warmund, Korn, Hudsin, all good 70-80 guys with sprint. Bahrain-Merida with best hill and overall sprinter Phadanis (didn't check that he just bought him and he has no form, still without Form stronger than Iwachnenko but close enough to cooperate), Bahrain with good flat riders, good flat guys for after the Cipressa, with Samuelson a classic to block late attacks. Looking way to strong to beat, so perfect guy to cooperate with. Chemnitz with Warmund probably as #1 leader and Brackhammer in the hill sprinter group. No real flat sprinter team. Cultural Salamanca without any chance. Rhodan, Bright the attacking guys.

So expected Alk to sieb at the Turchino. Some 20-30kms before Rhodan with 3 and Bright with 2 in the escape. IMO way too late to be annoying for the hill sprinter teams as it was clear the sieb comes from Alk there. So no need to chase before. Me saving Fall and Watt to gain a helper advantage and keep all my leaders fit, Bahrain riding in the back. Helped him with Loschmidt and Motor Trachenberg did much tempo there too (not really sure why). Chemnitz also as he had most of his team in the back (but his hill sprinter in fron). Didn't see where Phadanis landed. Lazy me, if I had noticed him having no form there would probably thought about dropping Celsius to deCoulumb at the Cipressa, but thought I need to catch up to B-M there, so dropping Heuser or Celsius. Decided to drop Celsius who was way fitter as well, as Heuser seemed to be the better option as second guy in front. Keeping both no way. They might expect me to rode in that case in front, which was clearly not my goal. So B-M with his guys 1s behind Celsius/deCoulomb/Iwachnenko and I had to wait on the 5 for him where he rode with a 60-86 guy losing a lot on Merlier (14" after the +5). Ansach with 2 88 flat guys in the hill sprinter group, Chemnitz with a 89 flat guy as well (not riding for Brackhammer, probably understandable but in the hill sprint as clear number 3 he has chances when Phadanis and Iwachnenko are looking at each other). So dangerous situation B-M and me both with just 2 85 and 2 86 flat riders, Celsius there for the +5, +4, +4. At that time I thought about how to win it with Tesla from the classics group. There Heuser was helper all the way and both where hanging at different wheels. Hill sprinter group was 6" behind on top of the last hill (Melville winning time on +5, Celsius won back time on the +4s). So it looked like game over for that group as Motor and Rhodan helped in front for their classics with sprint. Heuser blocked the last 2 kms, where he needed a follow on the first and Tesla followed an attack on the second. Good that the group didn't get the second and Heuser could pull Tesla in the sprint. Others seemed confused (following possoble attackers and not set for a winning sprint), Lesna somewhere behind in the train, Samuelson on Telsa. Heuser going out, hanging on one of the guys from the train (first on Hudsin, later on Korn). Heuser starting to sprint from 200m, Tesla sprinting from 100m, Samuelson didn't risk from 150, good for Tesla and a MSR win again in the morning!!!
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
__________________
Schrödinger's Dogs: Alive & Dead

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm

14h

La Classicissima. Pre-analysis

The most annoying race. Not only because I've never won it before but also because it sucks riding it as HS - favo. It looks so easy... only a 6, far away from the finish. The poggio not steep as well. But it's so demanding.

The distance between Cipressa requires at least 1 flat rider. More likely 2. Then a classic for the poggio. Something for the downhill. Then you still need to block 2km and ideally you should have a train as well so that it doesn't end in a complete lottery.

As every year, MSR was the main focus for our entire season.

Free will say it was an easy group but imo it was near the worst possible. AaD was missing for that because he would have a strong enough counter train and is also ruthless enough to go for Tesla if necessary.

The plus: no flat sprinters. So was clear that I didn't need to look behind after the Cipressa. In case there are: I guess I either need to cooperate or keep Wicki fit. Because the distance between Cipressa and Poggio is too long to reliably block the end without one. But no sprinters other than Rrurrambu...and donk decided to attack.

The bad: 3 hillsprintteams. All similar strong. Konan 86 sprint but only 60 flat and 64 mountain. Park with 63-66-84 and Merlier with worst sprint but best flat. Great for cooperation.

And they all had good helper teams as well. Luckily I knew Orter was damn strong at Strade Bianchi, so I knew at least he's 85 and not 89 today.

CC fell into my well thought out trap a couple months ago as well and bought Eldenkönig, so set everything for TA. Hehehehe. :twisted:

Was expecting Stevens to be strong though because as HS team, there shouldn't be a different highlight.

So 3 vs 1

And then there's the ever attacking Gipfelstuermer and Furpach. Really not easy imo. For classics Schart brought his 73-81-80 just to make sure I needed fully aware of Poggio attacks.

First 120km could keep 5 riders fit. Ganna, Cesare, Albert, Moser and Savinci. Moser really only here though to launch the sprint, so later decided to keep Albert for the 5 at the Cipressa and downhill. Savinci to chase the hill sprint teams and Cesare to block the poggio.

The race.

Annoying attack I thought at first. Because I needed 5 fit riders. Thought that might not be possible with chasing but it was anyway. Changing helpers for 80mins is pure torture though and I'm happy I'll never have to do that again.

So the donks attacks. FB follows him. Gipfel off and to my surprise Furpach stays back.

2 pullers and 2 leaders should never become dangerous over 294km but still. 3 HS teams against me, hoped I wouldn't have to do it alone. Got lucky and got much help.

Especially the Mobile one which allowed me to not set Moser as helper earlier. Think I gave Ganna a second helper somewhere there too. Decided maybe 10 more power for Ganna is worth 5 less for Albert, Mattia and Cesare.

Then the long awaited Furpach double attack. But that did him more harm than good. Even if Gipfel followed. At that point we were 40 or so km from the Cipressa and I still had Scalleone, Zamorano and Wicki from the helpers... and then the fresh ones after the Cipressa.

Was never going to be dangerous, so not immediately reacted. Trying to bait others and continue my sucking to keep everyone as fit as possible.

The Cipressa comes and at first glance a great Stevens sieb. 10 seconds to Ganna and Edogawa still in front. At second glance though - Park dropped, so no Groneberch help. And he dropped his own 63-85. Maybe Edogawa fought there too.

So as the sieb didn't went as well as it should, there was only Bosch riding. Not a bad rider but Cancellara and Savinci came back very quickly. Which was super important because Savinci still had 930 or so then and was fit enough to counter most attacks.

Then first km after the downhill. Albert Green tempo, mistake. Needed blue so attackers have to at least go red. Gipfel immediately jumped on the small mistake and went with Pavlo and Perruca. Kelleher on his wheel. Not sure what to think of this attack because Cesare fit and Savinci fit...but Pavlo strong and Kelleher too. But kinda liked Kelleher attacking before the poggio.

Got them at the poggio! Cesare stronger than I expected him to be.

There still was a problem left. Outchakov. A rider I really like but not today. His fucking downhill. If he has topform 59-86-86. Thought if he's gone, he's gone.

The only km he could attack was a -5 though. And getting away there isn't easy. He still did it. Fucking madman. And he did it with 2 guys on his wheel. I would have put more but feared Moser and Cesare not fit and too weak... and Mattia obviously needs to do tempo still.

Got lucky then that the other HS teams decided to secure the sprint. Savinci was still strong but not sure if strong enough. Maybe with Moser and Cesare... but that's the good thing once you catch other sprinters, they tend to help then if necessary.

In the sprint, we got the train and no experiments. From 150 there's the threat Edogawa risks it and launches against a weak ist Camoranesi which could have been enough for him, so Ganna went himself. In the end, not close.

Post race

It is done. After years of failing. Alacritous Ganna is the king of San Remo today.

Oh and before I forget: WTF was that donkey? Just bring Verkerk, maybe Bieri as well and do the Gamboa train. Completely without direction. Ceroni was plan A, ok ok. But what was plan B? The try for Gurru was so unconvincing I don't even want to call it a try.
J-Czucz hype train

Gipfelstuermer
Posts: 1513
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:43 am
Location: Weltenbummler
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:48 pm

After missing Omloop and Strade, we almost missed MSR, too. Long group ride on the first spring day. La primavera basically :) But ok, was able to login once on a red light and later when we refilled water. So was sure not to be kicked out. But of course missed the initial escape, so the only option was to attack later in the race. That we did.

First tried with Pavlo and Perruca as Quick described:
Quick wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm
Then first km after the downhill. Albert Green tempo, mistake. Needed blue so attackers have to at least go red. Gipfel immediately jumped on the small mistake and went with Pavlo and Perruca. Kelleher on his wheel. Not sure what to think of this attack because Cesare fit and Savinci fit...but Pavlo strong and Kelleher too. But kinda liked Kelleher attacking before the poggio.

Got them at the poggio! Cesare stronger than I expected him to be.
Kelleher following, thought it's ideal. Stronger than Perruca, amazing downhill skill, but not stronger in Sprint. But seemed Kelleher was nowhere close to topform on the day as Cesare easily pulled back 9'' on the Poggio.

So then last chance was Outschakov. Bought him after the Mohoric win last year. With the plan to repeat that in C4F:
Quick wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm
There still was a problem left. Outchakov. A rider I really like but not today. His fucking downhill. If he has topform 59-86-86. Thought if he's gone, he's gone.

The only km he could attack was a -5 though. And getting away there isn't easy. He still did it. Fucking madman. And he did it with 2 guys on his wheel. I would have put more but feared Moser and Cesare not fit and too weak... and Mattia obviously needs to do tempo still.

Got lucky then that the other HS teams decided to secure the sprint.
Hoped for no followers, but Quick too clever and 100% focussed. Covered the move. Unfit Kelleher without form also in the wheel, again. I guess that slowed the attack by 1''. Next km we gain 1'' although Kelleher went into tempo where he really shouldn't. Might have been the same without him in tempo, but maybe another 1'' lost.

Still didn't look too bad. 2'' ahead. Fit Outschakov vs. the Quick's who had already been riding quite a lot. But then the hill sprinter teams decide it's time to ride. CC with Gronbech, yes, alone. TMA with Orter, yes, alone. Optimistic, we thought, versus Ganna with the best train.

So in the end easily caught 2km before the finish line. Think if everything goes well, the attack might be sucessful. Everything meaning no followers, noone helping Quick. Then it's probably 5'' at the bottom of the Poggio, so might be enough even vs Moser.

Anyway, Quick the more deserved winner. Worked a lot. Had some luck with the hill sprinters strategy, but in C4F you cannot win without luck, so that's normal. GW Quick!

We will try to learn from him for MSR 2024.

Next: De Panne, E3 Harelbeke, Wevelgem.
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

Robyklebt
Posts: 9986
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:24 pm

Here I am with my comments. As usual lots to say, especially about everything Kwick did wrong!!!!

Early escape, Ceroni my plan A. Thinking: a) As favorite you hope for no group. Especially no early group in MSR. b) Quick had mentioned how he was NOT looking forward to controlling the whole race on his own. Let's challenge him! c) My other options... very limited somehow. So 4 man group, Kwick rides, then my first gamble doesn't pay off, the others help. Grrr. Stevens, then CC, then after the Turchino Mobster. Actually I think they were right to help. Better try to win and possibly fail than not try at all. And while Quick clearly was the favorite, it's not like Edogawa, Merlier, Park seemed chanceless.

Then after the Turchino IMO a Quick mistake. As he describes, he lets Ahonen ride alone, Mobster, not coming back in, even after an ultimatum. What for? 1 more helper, yes, but you had a nice working relationship with them, PLUS Ganna likes it slow in the plain. For the front this was good, small hope that they then go too slow too long, but very small. And with the Furpach attack that hope was gone. And then Quick after a while back in, red, full power. Not fresh guys, but for Ganna a nice dose of green/blue would have been better I think. Ruthless Quick anyway, asks for help, gets a finger, takes the whole hand. But ok, sometimes you need to, not sure this actually was one of these cases.

Rest then no more complaints about his riding, but about his other comments. Worst group because of 3 strong hill sprinter teams? Disagree, fit quite well I thought. First of all they weren't THAT strong. CC with 2 86, but with under 60 mountain, they are not going to be far ahead of Ganna. Mobile 87 and Liivik, that's stronger, yes. Stevens had Bluemarine, whom I didn't even see, 85, but then I was not looking at them that closely, little to do with me...So 3 teams with the same goal, vs Ganna with another one, but that gives them a chance, that can make them help, and they did. No LIquigas type, with the best hill/sprint sprinter, but refusing to ride helps too. A group like the morning IMO would have been much worse for Quick, with a classic attempt by Alk, with Tesla that is stronger in sprint than Camoranesi, then it's Ganna. Actually any group with AAD is worse :lol: 58-86 sprint, Tesla, and would he ride in the peloton with Quick? Of course he should, but would he? Judging for the amount of work he's done for his sprinters in the last year.... doubtful. Of course every group is bad when you're the favorite, but I thought this one was fairly ok.

Then Kwick claims the sieb was bad, it was perfect for the hill sprinters. Bluemarine dropped, ok, but there was enough power ahead to try. 10" to Ganna. Perfect sieb, Edogawa and Merlier are dropped it's much less, 6"? Or so? No clue really, but thought around there clearly under 10". By having them fight and stay, perfect. Maximum advantage, and while before the race I was pretty sure Quick would come back with no problems, with 10"... still think he comes back, but less sure. Liivik had to ride the 5, then Bosch or Orter the 2, whoever was there from stevens then help too. Flat part Bosch can ride a bit too. Orter probably as well, after all in that group probably there were no flat monsters, so he can use a bit more than Kwick later with flat monsters there. But Bosch rode the 5%, what a waste! You both worked for it, stevens and Mobster, then take that chance if it's there. Go in, try. Kwick with an excellent team, good chances to come back still, but why give up immediately?

Downhill attack, don't think 1 follower cost's 1"... the advantage wouldn't have been much bigger really, 2 guys following? That is maybe 1", maybe not even. Help by the hill sprinters, well, in a way maybe they shouldn't, but on the other hand. They invested something, they do have a small chance of winning, why not. Nobody bats an eyelid if people in the escape with much less chances ride, so why not here too.


Now to the Donkey:
Quick wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm
Oh and before I forget: WTF was that donkey? Just bring Verkerk, maybe Bieri as well and do the Gamboa train. Completely without direction. Ceroni was plan A, ok ok. But what was plan B? The try for Gurru was so unconvincing I don't even want to call it a try.
WTF was that. Something to forget basically.
The Gurru plan, didn't have one really. Gurruwiwi was a helper the whole race. If you meant Galarrwuy Rrurrambu, ok ok, that was indeed so unconvincing that you shouldn't call it a try. :lol:

Verkerk: I admit, I dreamt about Verkerk on Thursday evening, Gamboa-Verkerk, Gamboa sprints at 500, Verkerk passes him at 50, first of 2 MSR wins. Then after about 2' I came back to reality. And that is: Verkerk made 0 sense.
Situation:
Gamboa my logical but barely viable leader. 3 big problems
-58 mountain, if there's a sieb he's normally behind most if not all other hill sprinters
-78 sprint, if he's in the sprint he's normally one of the weakest sprinters.
-support cast. Decent, but not more. Rossi good, Vanuytsel 84-78 f-d good in downhill, in combination with 84 Carpinteiro in flat... decent, decent, not bad, but in modern c4f most of the time not enough. Maybe for holding, but not for gaining.

So, 2 likely scenarios:

a) No Ganna
Then I'm chasing. And I have to load Verkerk, at 61-64 on a 6 he's not even sure to be stronger than Gamboa, or just barely. So he has to be fit too. Means 5 riders fit, with the weather we had actually probably kind of possible. But then he needs 2 helpers when it gets fast. Hm. And if we reach the front, ok, Verkerk could be useful. But reaching the front difficult, and it would mean no plan A, no Ceroni for the win.
b) with Ganna. Ok, easy, Vanuytsel or Carpinteiro not really needed, Kwick will bring Verkerk and Gamboa back. Good plan. Then the sprint... 62-78 vs 65-67-91? The only thing I achieve is put a bit more pressure on Kwick in the sprint, he can't take sprint out, he has to sprint most of the way, at least until he can jump on my train. Useless.

So sorry, Verkerk at this point didn't really make any sense for me.

Of course what I did was a mess. Ceroni, made sense to me, still does. Then trying to keep 4 riders fit with 3, made sense. Then realized it was easy, changed to 2 helpers 5 helped in the back. Rrurrambu from helper to leader. Made no sense. Worked till km 50? 5 riders 990-995 I think, not after. Ended up having nobody at 1000 when we reached the Mediterranean. Then sort of focused a bit, let Vanuystel slide, of course Carpinteiro less useful, once I realized that let him go too, but saw that saving Isidoor now too late, so... in the end it was Rossi-Gamboa-Rrurrambu-Carpinteiro-Vanuytsel... fitness order. with Carpinteiro und 900 already.

What would have made sense: Go all in for Rrurrambu. Means no Ceroni again probably, but Rrurrambu, give him the guys that were there for Gamboa (in case Kwick wasn't there for him) let Gamboa a free role, help him as much as possible, but if necessary let him drop a bit lower, him and Carpinteiro. Cipressa, Rossi up the 5%, Vanuytsel downhill. Vanuytsel Carpinteiro flat, Rossi Poggio. Does it work? Difficult, but while I had 30" to Kwick on top of the Cipressa, with Rossi riding the 5 would have been less. With Rrurrambu at the Ganna fitness level another 1-2" less. How much is realistic? 10"? And with Kwick then not daring to go full power, no Savinci the whole time, not too much Moser, maybe there is a chance to come back. Waiting for me would have made 0 sense for Kwick though, why get a 78-88 train there that you really don't need? Or a 88 hanging on you? But in retrospect, that is what I should have done. Since BW was kicked unfairly, maybe we should ride it again? I promise not to attack with Ceroni but to go for Rrurrambu, a full try (that risks being Strade Biance v2 of course)
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

User avatar
flockmastoR
Posts: 3112
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by flockmastoR » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:30 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:24 pm
Actually any group with AAD is worse :lol: 58-86 sprint, Tesla, and would he ride in the peloton with Quick? Of course he should, but would he? Judging for the amount of work he's done for his sprinters in the last year.... doubtful.
First of all. I start to become annoyed by the ongoing missjudgement of my lack of tempo willingness. So stop that please. I know there are plenty of examples for it, but for each of these there are 5 races were I did all stage alone and failed. Talking about MSR, I worked for the Hinton win in 2022 (more than I thought my chances are) and I worked for it in 2023 (with/against the Bahrain-Merida hillsprinter team that is all in all better than Quicks nearly unbeatable team). That being said, would I help quick in your scenario? Probably yes, but I would wait to do it as long as it seemes avoidable.

Second: Yes the group was hard on paper, but the teams with mountain stronger HS did not even try to beat Quick. But that's not a quick, but a stevens/mobile problem. They didn't try and fail, they decided to fail right away. That's why it looked way too easy for quick when it was potentially set to be a more open final. Good work by quick after month of PsyOps against him
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
__________________
Schrödinger's Dogs: Alive & Dead

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:23 pm

Ok ok. 2 things Donkster. Maybe even 3 or 4.

First: Alfredo didn't care for a fast race. As I said, I put hil on 2 helpers rather early which I think was bald and not Mob or CC did. Of course, they have a flat advantage but Park 66 vs Ganna 63. And Edogawa only 60 as best sprinter. In retrospective, with only Edogawa having form, you should laud me for making the race faster! Pff

2nd. I said AaD is missing to make it a real horror group. ^^

Bahrain without form would actually have been the perfect team to collaborate with in the morning. He has no form. So 93 vs 93 but I have 8 flat more and the better train. Of course Alkworld would have made my life more difficult. But maybe the HS help me more then too. Or they can use Alk to ride against me. Well... :)

3rd I think you underestimate Mass. CC has a lot of 57-59 with 86 flat. They are all ahead of Ganna at the 6. And even if its only 4 seconds. I guess with 85-86-87 in tempo, Savinci doesn't earn more than 1s. Then it's about how long he can keep his level. Maybe 3km? Maybe 4? Idk, good we didn't try to find that out.

4th i see your point about cooperation. But I always expected them to try to get rid of me after the Cipressa anyway. Nothing else made sense. And I value their mass more over my 1 really good flat rider.

And while they worked a lot km-wise. Stevens brought a rider with me. CC then a rider and offered to ride alone. Then mob came in and didn't complain either. So I just let it go as long as possible. Everyone only 1 rider... it's not like they used their entire team while I sat there doing nothing.

But as I used the chat and asked for help, they could have as well. And if they do, I won't risk further cooperation and say no.

Thing is... the Moser situation was important for me and closer than you thought. I think he had 970 after the first long downhill. When I finally switched to no helper/helping. Don't have the exact numbers anymore but once he was helping, he lost 2 power/km. Did some quick maths and decided it's too risky tif he drops behind Ganna.

And without him I can launch the sprint with an unfit 45. Too much at stake here to not do maximum sucky sucky.

5. Again you only read 2/3rds. Gamboa - BIERI - Verkerk. That's your train here. Will it work? No, most likely definitely not. But you wanted criticism and that's the best plan I could come up with your riders. Don't need helpers too. Plan A still possible. Just risk it. Either someone brings them back or not... you're not favo with them either usually.

6. I was semi confident of coming back. Mass simply sucks. And 3 vs 1 is a lot. But thought more likely I come back than not of course.

My fingers were really itching alone in tempo at the Cipressa. Green attack costs Ganna 40. Still best sprinter then. But then he's in front at the 6. I sieb with Cesare. Then do the same riding I did anyway. Would have siebed Gip as well which would have maked the finish easier.

Actually think this would have been spectacular. But worked either way, so better I didn't do it.
J-Czucz hype train

CerveloTestTeam
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by CerveloTestTeam » Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:26 pm

I don't know why you guys talk paragraphs about tactical possibilities to win a classic, if you could've just done it by attacking on KM 1.. :lol:

Tukhtahuaev
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 7:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Tukhtahuaev » Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:30 pm

Better to not talk too much about that horrible 21h edition

Robyklebt
Posts: 9986
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:35 am

Quick wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm
Just bring Verkerk, maybe Bieri as well and do the Gamboa train. Completely without direction.
There was a maybe!
But I actually agree about the no direction part. :cry: Just that I think the Rrurrambu-direction seems more sensible than Verkerk and maybe Bieri. Bieri, he needs some more training, he's not ready yet :roll: Plus he probably has form on some random race he didn't ride anyway.

Moser ok, more critical.
Mass, yes, but you can mass a bit too. As I said, I always was confident that you can come back!
CerveloTestTeam wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:26 pm
I don't know why you guys talk paragraphs about tactical possibilities to win a classic, if you could've just done it by attacking on KM 1.. :lol:
I tried km 3! Or 4? But ok, km 1 was the one for my great Ceroni-plan then...
Tukhtahuaev wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 11:30 pm
Better to not talk too much about that horrible 21h edition
Actually would have been interesting to read about every edition... horrible or not.
flockmastoR wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:30 pm
First of all. I start to become annoyed by the ongoing missjudgement of my lack of tempo willingness. So stop that please. I know there are plenty of examples for it, but for each of these there are 5 races were I did all stage alone and failed.
Probably wasn't an attempt at humor, still was funny. The 1 to 5 ratio especially! No misjudgement btw, I stand by my assessment.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:01 am

flockmastoR wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:30 pm
First of all. I start to become annoyed by the ongoing missjudgement of my lack of tempo willingness. So stop that please. I know there are plenty of examples for it, but for each of these there are 5 races were I did all stage alone and failed.
Probably wasn't an attempt at humor, still was funny. The 1 to 5 ratio especially! No misjudgement btw, I stand by my assessment.
[/quote]

I'd also say the 1 to 5 ratio is right. But in the other direction ;)
J-Czucz hype train

Bear
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Bear » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:34 pm

53 86 76 51 55 83.6 53 #1 Mads Korneliussen
54 83 79 48 50 81.8 47 #2 Jesper Börjesson
49 83 79 46 49 74.6 39 #3 Nisse Bengtsson
57 83 79 54 55 74.6 58 #4 Hermanni Haljala
49 86 79 48 47 75.2 35 #5 Pyry Juupalouma
49 86 79 50 51 77.3 47 #6 Lasse Kurvinen
62 83 79 50 53 80.3 45 #7 Mikael Persson
58 83 77 53 50 78.2 38 #8 Lukas Skiold
50 85 77 48 51 76,0 38 #9 Cas Valk

Lineup for E3 just looks nice if you watch some numbers. 21:00

team fl
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by team fl » Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:57 am

21h it is for me too. Team FL will attend with the following line up, most likely:

#1 Fiorino "Forte" Forte
#2 Gilberto "GoGo!" Gody
#3 Gunter "The Green Machine" Grün
#4 Janis "JJ" Jansons
#5 Julio "Juan" Juantorena
#6 Perluigi "Piano" Piano
#7 Przemyszezszczszszszcs, damn it!
#8 Terry "The Clockwerk" TikTak
#9 Vitor "V for Victory" Ventura

So De Panne hero fantastic Frits stays at home, as well as the people's choice Volk-mar Vogt. Hässig is alyway angry anyway, so easy decision too.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:33 pm

18h Harelbeke.

Team don't know. Cesare, Mattia,Marco, Xaver, Gio, Robert Leano, Franco and Osso maybe? Or maybe not.
J-Czucz hype train

Robyklebt
Posts: 9986
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:36 pm

Bring Verkerk!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Quick
Posts: 1462
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Quick » Fri Mar 24, 2023 2:38 pm

We didn't want to tell you but he wanted to join us before finally accepting your bid. Truth is, we don't think he's that good.
J-Czucz hype train

team fl
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by team fl » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:25 am

What a March for Team FL regarding spring classics: Frits Flaskjer (De Panne), Pierluigi Piano (Harelbeke), Volkmar Vogt (Gent-Wevelgem) and Pierluigi Piano again (Dwars door Vlaanderen) did the flandrian foursome in 10 days! April will be a bit trickier due to private commitments on weekends, but the team management and technical director Hugo Marxer plan to crush the late editions again with some cereals :twisted:.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Bear
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Bear » Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:42 pm

Yeah, time for redemption :-) Looking forward to some nice late evening editions!!

Robyklebt
Posts: 9986
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:17 pm

Vlaanderen

Dumbest monument, most predictable actually.
Donkey with a great team I predict he won't win.
Plus a very low level group here, highly unexciting.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

team fl
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:43 am
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by team fl » Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:29 am

Praise Pierlugi Piano, Lord of Flanders! Late evening dominated again by Team FL ;)

A Paris-Roubaix start is still up in the air though, much less in the late evening. But that's not in Flanders anyway, so who cares.

The whole Team FL, management, riders, and Hugo Marxer are sad to notice that the afternoon is not the same anymore without the Liechtenstein cycling team. It will be one of this year's missions to make the afternoon great again, latest at the Giro!
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Bear
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Spring Classics 2023

Post by Bear » Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:06 pm

Congrats FL. Well done again. No mistakes and onn point in the important moments.

5th for Mikael is not bad against the better sprinters. But I am not happy with my performance. Most of the race was ok. Kwaremont with Mads who was not the fittest at this time was not good. Actually a full sieb with Mikael would have been the best to reduce the group. Also, the idea to attack with Lukas seemed to be smart in first place but actually was the opposite. I hoped to have some of the better sprinters in my wheel as Lukas was the best flat skilled rider except the FLs. With 3 riders going fit into the sprint it might be better than a 5th in the end. Winning seemed highly unlikely though.

Next year, next try. Now full preperation for Roubaix. Hopefully I will be back home in time.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests