The real Giro 21: Afternoon

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 am

Yeah, not much happening. Easy for Snel, maybe the Mosca-sprinter had no helper? But would have thought he would, normally Mosca should just leave the help on him even for non-flat stages. Form maybe? Normally I'd thought Wallinder or Willander wins it with 2 more... but no.

Messerli good, third, beat Wheeler from his wheel. Didn't expect that. So Messerli still in the ciclamino fight somehow, but he really needs a win...

Today AAD hopes he doesn't win.. not wonder his riders aren't eager to train.

Normally Skeljvik stage and rosa today. I hope for DeWit!
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Thu May 13, 2021 10:50 am

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:26 am
Yeah, not much happening. Easy for Snel, maybe the Mosca-sprinter had no helper? But would have thought he would, normally Mosca should just leave the help on him even for non-flat stages. Form maybe? Normally I'd thought Wallinder or Willander wins it with 2 more... but no.

Messerli good, third, beat Wheeler from his wheel. Didn't expect that. So Messerli still in the ciclamino fight somehow, but he really needs a win...

Today AAD hopes he doesn't win.. not wonder his riders aren't eager to train.

Normally Skeljvik stage and rosa today. I hope for DeWit!
Of course not, because if they start to win, they stop to train, like Wolfowitz did, and now Franz joins him in his lazyness
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Thu May 13, 2021 5:17 pm

Stage 6: after a turbulent start the CCs had to bring back Koskov and co. very early. Sindarov then missed the attack by Gipfelstürmer. Quite a costly mistake, as the DeWit and Ballabeni came through while Sindarov, being isolated for many kms, didn't play any role in the final climb to San Giacomo.
Grupetto work by Faye/Fakasega and friendly Stakhanov was very good, Koskov and co. finishing without too much effort ~26min behind the stage winner DeWit.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Thu May 13, 2021 6:52 pm

Start, Donkey tried a sieb, see how big my numerical advantage to fantasticos is, wasn't worth it, gave up. AAD continued for ciclamino, but as CC said, caught after a 20 km chase or so.

Then attack by Equinox, hope one day he goes through and wins... and today Gipfel there too. Zverenberg, 71, so fantasticos chased immediately, hard, but then didn't, increase the speed, so the group got 4' or so? No increase in the mountain either, so the not unexpected, but still good attack by Gipfel came. Covering that with a stronger rider and it's even less of a problem for fantasticos. Like this he had to ride hard until the foot of the final climb. Looked like an easy win for Skeljvik, but surprisingly fantasticos didn't put Gajalo in tempo. But let Coderch work, he had to, can't leave it uncovered and lose 30" or more in an attack.. Gajalo took over late, then in the last 5 km hard race, Skeljvik goes 2 km from the end, but too late, 12" missing for the stage. He could have gotten that quite easily with riding with Gajalo, but probably thought Gipfel deserved the stage after the good attack. So now Gipfel and DeWit rosa. Donkey continues collecting placements, 4+5th today, only lost 8" +4" bonifications to Skeljvik, from that point of a view a good stage. But already behind in GC, as expected after Tuesday. Need to protect around 1'30" now in the coming 2+ weeks, not sure how, but I'll try!

Tomorrow sprint again most likely, Donkey still in for tempo, his GC part (while I see myself as outsider I'm not completely chanceless, and since fantasticos will need to ride many stages alone I do his part here, combined with my sprinter part...)
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu May 13, 2021 11:30 pm

Wow, suddenly on stage 6 Team Gipfelstuermer has found its role in this year's Giro!

DeWit in rosa & azzurra, Ballabeni in bianca, Gipfelstuermer leading the team classification. Only the ciclamino remains on Snel's shoulders.

How did it happen? Start of the race, sieb by the Donkey, then some AAD vs CC riding for the IS. This stopped our plan to escape and let fanta work for his stage win. Instead, observed this fight for ciclamino. Donkey joined AAD for a few km to have a helper advantage vs fanta but quickly stopped (probably thought it isn't worth it). I considered joining AAD as well, but escape seemed more interesting as it would make the favorite work (not CC, even if with his streak he recently is kind of a favo every day). So waited for peloton to come together and then escape with Vespa and Zevenbergen.

Fanta started a hard chase with Fertz in Red tempo but later allowed up to 4' to our escape with Equinox and AAD. At Forca di Gualdo, fanta did not increase the tempo so DeWit and Ballabeni attacked. Hoped for followers but nobody there. First thought: "Damn, no chance alone vs fanta". DeWit, Ballabeni, Zevenbergen and Rinderknech got up to 3' but looked impossible vs fanta's Lyfenko, Otero and Carter. They immediately chased hard and even got a few km help from Palasteam. So the advantage melted below 2' already before the final ascent to Ascoli Piceno.

We expected Gajalo on the climb but fanta waited a bit as Coderch did cover tempo for Eiffel and so DeWit, Ballabeni and Rinderknech kept the advantage at nearly 2' for the first half of the climb. Would have been harder vs Gajalo but fanta showed some unexpected hesitation. Or was it mercy? Or he tried to keep Gajalo as GC option Nr.2? Or simply smart strategy not to have rosa too early? On the last 5km Apicella cover tempo and Gajalo reduced the gap quickly, Rinderknech got dropped, but DeWit and Ballabeni sustained 12'' even after Skeljvik's attack. Double win and maglia rosa! Wow!

So instead of attacking again tomorrow, we will instead pay respect to the jersey and try to defend it.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 14, 2021 8:53 am

Stage 6 was very exciting. In the beginning Uwe Schöning (Alive And Dead) attacked on km 2 followed by hard tempo on the first steep km of Big Donkey. All Sindarov support was gone and the whole A&D was in front and tried to reach the first IS. As expected there was no big chance to keep the flat armada of CircleCycle in the back. After the peloton was reunited Brian Moore, Etienne Lamotte (both Equinox), Vittore Vespa, Joos Zevenbergen (both Gipfelstuermer) escaped and Arthur Rinderknech (Alive And Dead) jumped into the group on the next hill. At the Forca di Gualdo Gipfelstuermer used Zevenbergen in front to attack with both climbers (Willem DeWit and Bonifacio Ballabeni). The gap grew fast and fantasticos was riding for the stage in the back. At the foot of the final climb there were just 2min gap left. At the finish DeWitt and Ballabeni saved 12 seconds to Skeljvik dropping Rinderkench on the way up who finished 11th. DeWit takes over the Maglia Rosa.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 6/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:13 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:13 Bonifacio Ballabeni (Gipfelstuermer)

Days in Maglia Rosa
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by riders:
2 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
4 CircleCycle
1 Alive And Dead
1 Gipfelstuermer
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 14, 2021 5:00 pm

Flat stage and a Snel win. Not much to say about it.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 7/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:13 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:13 Bonifacio Ballabeni (Gipfelstuermer)

Days in Maglia Rosa
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
5 CircleCycle
1 Alive And Dead
1 Gipfelstuermer
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Fri May 14, 2021 7:27 pm

Stage 7 saw the first not totally "flat" flat stage with a few possible sieb kms. Interesting profile, but with 2 (more) important stages following there was not too much action.
A km1 attack by Equinox with Moore and McDermot (the leader in the maglia nera competition),some half-heartedly siebs by Rinderknech (km 37) and Apicella (km 62), where only Mario Fertz (fantasticos) did not manage to come back to the peloton, followed by a more serious sieb at km 71 by Rinderknech again. O'Riordan bringing Koskov and co. back at km80, when A&D stopped in front. Then at km93 again a sieb by Apicella, when all of a sudden Snel found himself dropped behind the other sprinters. O'Riordan, meanwhile helping Koskov and Cousin Jambaar even further back. 14" behind the other dropped sprinters and 20" behind the peloton (with Messerli and Karatzoglou) where Coderch did some tempo. As early as km99 Snel was back to the other sprintgroup - there didn't seem to be much interest to keep him away today - and soon after that also Big Donkey stopped so O'Riordan brought the 2 groups together again.
Another attack by Equinox at km 106, which would have had a good chance, because the control tempo with Jambaar Faye simply started 1km too late. Km 126 saw Stakhanov joining the CCs in tempo, where today again Sindarov had to do some chasing tempo. Stolk (Team FL) at km 156, Fakasega (CC) km 158, Teixeira (Big Donkey) km 160 and Arvidsson (Mosca) km162 joined the chase one by one and while Ortega and Bork (Equinox) had still around 3' advantage with only 20km to go, the gap decreased by 8-9"/km so soon there was no hope for the 2 escapers, especially when the likes of Moretti, Hassana and Kovacevic joined forces in the back.
Esmel Yahi (Palasteam) and Matthieu Majerus (Gipfelstuermer) tried to attack on the penultimate km, Fabrizio Oss (Mosca) tried on the last km, but all those attacks were convincingly blocked by Trewlove, Pekka Piippo and Rosco Frazer, who even had the honour to lead out the CC train, which to my surprise was the only train today.
With no pressure and the luck of the sprintsystem Snel could secure his 3rd win, while Eselson "stole" the second place from the others.

Stages 8 and 9 coming up will be another test for Koskov, Faye, Eselson, Snel and other riders who might get dropped early - but more importantly these stages could also lead to some action in the fight for the maglia rosa.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri May 14, 2021 8:54 pm

Good race report by CC. After Snel's third win (not surprising based on CC's streak with 2x win, 1x not win, 2x win, 1x not win) the two controversial questions were:

1.) Should hill sprinters ride vs. Snel?
Interestingly both AAD and Big Donkey siebed and rode for their hill sprinters for a few km. But at different hills! First was AAD riding after a sieb, but Big Donkey said it was too far from the finish to bring it to the end. Only few km later, he did the sieb and rode himself. Maybe just out of curiosity? Or close enough to the finish now? However, now AAD did not join and Big Donkey also did not wait for me (riding with Gagneux for VanDerVeen in a group ahead of the Snel group). So no cooperation happened. In the end just logical given two upcoming hilly stages where nobody wants to have a dead team.

I think Big Donkey for stage and AAD for ciclamino could have been a valid option and collaboration. Personally, might have joined for a slightly better ciclamino chance (although would remain low chance anyway). Also, I have the Reg so why not useit to make the race harder? But would have made only sense if AAD and Big Donkey started together. Maybe on another stage it can work.

2.) Should sprinters ride for Snel?
Well, CC is dominating with his train so the support from me for VanDerVeen was basically non existent on flat stages. Some passive support by not escaping all the time. Other sprinters like Messerli, Wallinder and Wheeler were much more optimistic and let their teams ride for a sprint, in particular today to make a late catch of the Equinox escape.

Surely all of them have some chance in a sprint, but on all stages so far the CC train dominated so clearly that the other sprinters' support looks a bit useless in hindsight. Why not let Equinox take the win today? In my opinion, that would have been a good way as Equinox is bringing this race to life while the passive/active support for CC made the flat stages rather boring. Or should sprinter teams even attack on their own because of the CC dominance? Well, Mosca tried but rather poor try on last km today.... Overall seems they are all still optimistic to beat Snel in a sprint and I wonder if they keep the optimism for upcoming stages.

What's next?
Now the hilly stages, each of them finishing on small ramps, which are steep enough to make Skeljvik the favorite. If he wins any of the stages, will very likely be enough to win 14'' vs DeWit and take maglia rosa. So very difficult now to defend rosa... will also depend on whether fanta is online, offline with settings or has a sitter... let's see tomorrow.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 15, 2021 2:28 pm

On 1) To me seemed way too long to have a chance. AAD and Big Donkey vs CC? OK. But expected at least FL and at some point Mosca to join. And possibly Gipfel too. No chance, even if when I saw that AAD had siebed (I presume it was him) and ridden the advantage was quite big actually, but with over 100km to go. Guys like Pekka and Perez in front with 88 flat. Looked hopeless. Maybe should have tried? But thought hopeless and was being nice to offliners too. We have few enough players, if we start profiting from offliners at every chance next time around they will stay off... and then we'd have a 5 team GIro, CC, Gipfel, AAD, Equinox and Donkey... (fantasticos announces weekend offlining or sitting) Let's be nice and have them here too.
Second sieb when I rode a bit with Coderch, again there going through just with AAD seemed pointless, so I rode with Coderch. 77 flat. The big group with all the sprinters except Snel was just a few seconds behind, easy catch. So was riding while seeing if somebody in that group had interest, AAD for ciclamino, Mosca (I think he was online then) FL for stage too, but I think he was off. Nobody interest, so ok. There I would have collaborated, better stage chances for Messerli and his ciclamino chances increase (he's pretty much out of the race too though at this point) But nothing there, so no problem.

2) Of course they should ride. Foir themselves, not for Snel. Which nobody is actually doing. They are riding for their sprinters, actually they aren't riding that much either, while it's all rather easy so far, CC is doing most of the work by far. Won all sprints too, but to me Wallinder has excellent chances. If on form, but somehow I suspect he has no form. Second sprint I was sure he would win the 90 goes at 100, I thought 92 then just overtakes him from 50. But maybe I remember wrong, it's been a while since I had a 90 guy.... or actually had to think much about stuff like that. FL with his train IMO has chances too, for him almost all depends on who is following, if it's just Karatzoglou, he can risk going early. If it's Messerli not really. If it's Dries I don't know, according to Gipfel's pre race interview yesterday he seems out of form? And if CC does a 4 man train like yesterday... chances increase. But ok, 2 out of 3 sprints he was offline during the sprint. And yeah, then he can't win, sprint 2 online his chances maybe not that bad. Give it to Equinox? It's the Giro, not a charity ride....
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Sat May 15, 2021 6:37 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 8/21 stages
00:00:00 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:02 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:12 TimEiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
5 CircleCycle
1 Alive And Dead
1 Gipfelstuermer
1 fantasticos
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
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  • 10 GC wins
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 15, 2021 7:27 pm

Good day with Eiffel second and only 9" lost. The problem is that that's really the maximum I can reach on stages like this if it's for the win... and I have roughly 1'20" only to defend now...
Tomorrow more of the same
Then after the rest day 2 rather open days.
Then with Zoncolan the hellish final week starts, Tim Eiffel is french, he likes easier mountains, not this Giro stuff. So the trajectory is really the expected one, losing time here and there, leaking.

Today had good hopes not to lose bonifications, the group looked good, the rather impolite fantasticos sitter (not even able to say hello and who is is) started a bit late, so had to ride rather fast. Looked like it might not be enough, 4' for the end, but I'm not sure how much they really needed either, then the front somehow collapsed. All stopped riding, wasn't following it too closely, seemed rather weird, the Mosca rider who had ridden less then the others did have less mountain, and was riding in the downhill while the best climber then was taking a break, and then all seemed to be over. Bah... I was rooting for them. Not Moretti, who seems to have made some tempo in the peloton after bringing Trewlove back. And Apicella seems to want to ride for himself too, following Gajalo (that was just a safety hanging for earlier. So Skeljvik, finally the first fantasticos win. I fear there's a few more coming. But at least now we have 4 teams winning stages, 4 missing, among them the Donkeys... but well, Löffel won a fantasy race before the Giro, that's nice too and might be enough for May :roll: Don't really have the winning riders here, but we'll see. Still see a few stages with chances. Skeljvik in rosa too, good, then the escape might get Gipfels support too tomorrow.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sat May 15, 2021 9:47 pm

4 teams with 8 riders in escape looked promising today, especially as it involved FL and Mosca who had mainly been offline on the first stages. Then I think fanta's mysterious (impolite?) sitter gave them a bit too much time. 5' is a lot when only one team is chasing 8 riders. Maybe he hoped for help from maglia rosa team? Or he was late in tempo due to technical problems? Seemed he was playing on app or new version, too.

But 5' is not a lot if the escape simply stops 20km before the finish with 4' lead! Still can't believe it! Well, Mosca missed the change to fresh as he was offline and not communicating but he started in the downhill and he had the weakest rider for an uphill finish. Then they just started playing around way too early. I think all of them started their tactical early except FL (who was on app or new version). Then even to a complete stop. If you stop, it's over. Lucky fanta. Gives him the (deserved!) stage and thanks to the boni the maglia rosa, too. That was the reason why I was prepared to let the escape win. Boni likely for Skeljvik, unlikely for DeWit. That's what happened.

But the escape thing still puzzling for me. This peloton is full of climbers and sprinters and the Giro full of mountain top finishes and sprint stages... and many escape teams are not online every day.... so there won't be that many realistic chances for escapes, I guess. One chance gone but hopefully we'll see an escape win on another stage.

So tomorrow DeWit back in Gipfelstuermer's orange (an hommage to Euskatel-Euskadi times). 2'' behind Skeljvik, but haven't figured out yet where to gain time on him. Ballabeni keeping the maglia bianca of course. Doesn't plan to give it up throughout the race.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Sun May 16, 2021 1:14 pm

not much more to add for stage 8 here. Cooperation in the Gruppetto was very good, as expected, with Stakhanov and Blankenau joining Jambaar Faye. In the fight for the maglia nera no changes, as all the dropped riders finished with the same time. Maybe today will be different? 3200 altimetres are still a lot, especially for the tired riders which gave everything yesterday.
Sindarov once again outclassed in the sprint by Eiffel - luckily he got his stage win very early, everything what comes now is only a bonus for him.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 16, 2021 5:08 pm

So bonus today :D

Good attack by Gipfel, this time with followers, in the end the expected high form Sindarov win. And he rode a bit less too I think.

DeWit back in rosa. Fantasticos showing some nerves in the back, thinking about letting the GC go. Hope he doesn't, some days will be hard and involve lots of work, but he's still on course. 89 +87 vs DeWit? 14" to gain back? 1'15" or so to Eiffel? Seems all rather likely. Must be frustrating that he has to do all by himself, but on a day like today I really can't help... Yes, if we go together, full power we get them I believe. Stage for Skeljvik, second place for Eiffel. Yeah, what do I get from that? Lose 4" more... no no, have to do it like today, as boring as it is. Plus I do his work on flat stages.... so I'm already too nice.

Next GC stage on Wednesday, teams all fit I expect, and team strength will decide. But probably fantasticos and Donkey will have to concentrate on 1 guy? So Gajalo and Apicella out of GC? We'll see. Favorite Sindarov of course...
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun May 16, 2021 7:22 pm

Stage 9, first time that the Giro visits Campo Felice. Ingame +5 +9*. Think in reality more like +5* +9**, but ok, nobody really saw it in TV before today.

Very hilly 158km with 3200 elevation gain before that. But hardly any sieb-km, mostly +4/+5. Initial escape looked promising: Vespa & Majerus got joined by FL for Bana Hassana's maglia azzurra, AAD and Equinox for the stage. But two problems: fanta chased hard again (from app! impressive!) and Equinox somehow did not want to join when we switched to fresh. Perhaps he has an eye on the maglia azurra, too? Then just join next time with whatever rider wants it.

So the advantage melted quickly and we sent another Duo up the road: Savoie & Zevenbergen. They got away versus somewhat tired fantasticos' (but most of them have very good Reg). Rinderknech followed Zevenbergen but somehow his manager AAD fell asleep in the team car and did not tell Fortnow to drop from the weakened initial escape and help the new escape... So we had only 50'' or so before the climb to Ovindolo.

Fanta continued the high tempo and put Gajalo in tempo on the +7. But then he waited for Otero, who got dropped, which was the opportunity for DeWit & Brandt to attack. They got away with Sindarov and Valtter following. Valtter the guy in rosa.... ah no, only in real life, not here.... so confusing! Don't use real life rider names in a fantasy game!!! Collaboration with them was o.k.-ish but Palasteam mainly following real life race and Circle Cycle hesitant to ride without Valtter riding was not the best combination. DeWit tried to only ride when they were in tempo, too, but I think he did 1-2km more than Valtter and 3-4km more than Sindarov (who seemed in great form over recent days).

Fanta's slightly weakened team did not get any help, but still managed to keep the advantage always below 1'. On the final climb to Campo Felice, the peloton got closer and closer (like in real life), but Skeljvik was not able to catch DeWit, Sindarov and Valtter (different from real life). Sindarov the strongest in the end, so his hesitation to ride was kind of unnecessary. Would have been a bit nicer if he rode 1-2km more. That would have secured 1-2'' more for the trio vs. the other GC riders and still brought him the win. But ok, he was a bit afraid of Valtter who also seemed in good form recently... understandable!

Anyway, let's celebrate DeWit being back in maglia rosa! I mean, he is the first Gipfelstuermer to wear the maglia rosa! Now again 14'' ahead of Skeljvik! If somebody had told me on Friday, that he can defend 14'' over 2 GC stages, it would have sounded like a dream! So for the moment, DeWit is living the dream in maglia rosa! He plans to sleep in rosa tonight, then defend it on tomorrow's rather flat stage (looks more like sprinters vs. hill sprinters), then show it to everyone on the rest day... mh, and then the Montalcino stage on Strade Bianche. He'll want to keep rosa there as well, but the pavé specialists in our team have other plans. Difficult situation for the Directeur sportif.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Sun May 16, 2021 8:02 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 9/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:14 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:19 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)

Days in Maglia Rosa
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
1 Alive And Dead
1 Gipfelstuermer
1 fantasticos
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 17, 2021 5:02 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 10/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:14 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:19 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)

Days in Maglia Rosa
4 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
1 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
1 Alive And Dead
1 Gipfelstuermer
1 fantasticos
1 Mosca

Day before the first rest day, we also look at the standing in the other classements

Maglia Ciclamino
1. Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle), 177 pts
2. Fabian Messerli (Big Donkey), 130 pts
3. Elias Wallinder (Mosca), 124 pts

Clear leader at the moment is Snel with already 3 stage wins at this years Giro. Best climber is Willem DeWitt at place 6 with 118 pts.

Maglia Azzuro
1. Bana Hassana (Team FL), 40 pts
2. Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer), 36 pts
3. Arthur Rinderknech (Alive And Dead), 25 pst

Equinox the team that is in nearly every stage and using a lot of different riders for that. First stages FinnSeverin Heisterkamp was leading in the Maglia Azzuro, Team FL concentrated his effort on Bana Hassana, who now leads. Arthur was taking points from late attacks with the Gipfelstuermer Zverenvergen who rode for DeWitt. Still wide open as the multiple hard climb stages are coming.

Maglia Bianca
1. Bonifacio Ballabeni (Gipfelstuermer), 00:00:56
2. Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead), 00:08:13
3. Severin Savoie (Gipfelstuermer), 00:26:26
If there is no crash by Bonicacio the 15h edition will witness an italian Maglia Bianca winner.

Maglia Nera
Mario Fertz (fantasticos) is wearing the Maglia Nera at the moment, we will see who will have it in the end.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 17, 2021 6:07 pm

4th grrrrr.

Today I hoped to be able to keep the sprinters away, but wasn't even close finally. Sindarov helping in the back, as 70% expected, but I still didn't want to risk dropping Apicella or even Eiffel for that. Who knows, if Apicella is back in front fantasticos might decide that it's a good opportunity and try to get my second option out of the GC... .ok, not that likely, but who knows. But in the end that didn't even matter, even with Apicella for Messerli it's still not over 20" on top. With Eiffel maybe a tiny bit more, but with the mass of 85+ flat guys they had in the back vs 80-83 + Trewlove at 87... wasn't going to be enough.

Go from the first hill, well yes, but I forgot Messerli there :oops: Ok, wasn't the main plan to go there, was just an option, see who is where then decide if I try there or not, but since I changed helping stuff for that km somehow Messerli ended up without any, which wasn't the plan either.... but well, even there with Sindarov in the back, doubtful it works. In the end the 3 sprinter teams in the back just too strong. Even if I got lots of help in front too, AAD for Karatzoglou earlier and more than I would have thought (he had chances in a 1-1 sprint of course) and Gipfel, which still confused me, finally understood that he rides for DeWit for ciclamino, hadn't understood that until then.

Now rest day, not that my team needs it, they could ride tomorrow, Stakhanov a bit weakend but no problem.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Mon May 17, 2021 8:23 pm

stage 9 with a "Abstauber" by Sindarov, who this time was clever enough to follow DeWit. Could have done some km more, even with yes,normal and probably still be stronger than Valtter and DeWit on that last km (9*). So little less time gained by the attackers, but still enough to get the maglia rosa back for DeWit.
fantasticos both days on app with really, really hard tempo throughout the whole stages. I have to say, I don't really understand that. Stage 8 looked perfect to let a group go, control them, take a few seconds on everybody in the last kms and have the fit team ready for the next day. As it happened, he won stage 8 - but was very lucky that the escapers started to look at each other instead of riding together until, maybe last 10km? Next day, with unfit team, not easy to cover all attacks, while with a fit team he can win stage 9, and don't lose time to other Gc-candidates like DeWit.

Today I was very much afraid of a sieb as early as km 10. Just make it even harder for Snel and co. I need every helper to load 4 flat guys + Snel. Ok, like this, I got 'em on 1000 before km86. Imo better chance to try immediately at km86 because now you don't need to sieb at km97 again and you can use Eiffel for km96 and 98 (vs Sindarov, who then most likely doesn't sieb the non-fighting FLs... hm...).
Then km97 the unfriendly Apicella sieb with Snel landing 3" behind Wheeler and Wallinder. Quite a lot. :shock: Eselson one second behind Snel, probably could try to keep him but that would risk cooperation? maybe?
Km98 Sindarov doing the famous "Matoussi-move" bringing Snel back to the before mentioned FL and Mosca sprinters, but - to my regret - siebing Timo Tammemaa from FL.
km99 a cheeky little sieb attempt by Fortnow, without much success, when at km100 Fakasega managed to sieb the next FL guy (Blankenau). Hm, could have used Lim for that km, but did not think that Fakasega would sieb anybody there.
16" 39km, now everything depending on FL and Mosca. If they are there to ride, easy comeback and 95% guaranteed fight between them 2 for the stagewin. If not, then no chance to comeback against the 3 teams who were interested to ride in front. Ideal situation now of course would have been to have Mosca and FL both with their flat riders + trains, but as it was, only Mosca had the train.
Then highspeed chase, all CCs in tempo, joined by one FL and one Mosca rider, gaining second by second until the gap stayed at 7". Oss and Pekkaa did the rest. Sprint, comfortable for Mosca, Wallinder with the win, Wheeler 2nd. The first sprintstage where Snel didn't play a role in the fight for the win, but happily takes p5 and 25pts for ciclamina.

Restday tomorrow not really needed for my guys. It was a great first week (ok, 10 days) for the team with 6(!) stagewins, 3podium places (Lim p2 stage 3, Eselson p2 stage 7, Sindarov p3 stage 8), and while we were doing tempo a lot during these days no rider was really overdoing it.
Week 2 looks very interesting. Stage 13 will be the main focus, most likely that could be the last MS during this years Giro and then there is stage 16... 212kms from Sacile to Cortina, 5120 altimetres and the hardest stage for Koskov and co. on the way to Milano. Not really looking forward to that one.....

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue May 18, 2021 12:06 am

flockmastoR wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 5:02 pm
Zverenvergen who rode for DeWitt.
Zevenbergen who rode for DeWit!
flockmastoR wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 5:02 pm
If there is no crash by Bonicacio the 15h edition will witness an italian Maglia Bianca winner.
Bonifacio!

Not sure if drunk or revenge for calling Karatzoglou Karatzoglu in Fairplay section :D Apologies for that!! :D

Anyway love those statistics! DeWit playing a huge role here in the first week. On paper a contender for rosa, ciclamino and azzurra. He's happy with the stage win and his main goal is to wear rosa for as long as possible. If he wins one of the three jerseys at the end, it will be a nice bonus.

Today the expected fight sprinters vs. hill sprinters. Sprinters won, but this time Wallinder! Not Snel! Incredibile!

Now we use the rest day to try to come up with a tactic for Wednesday... objectives: keep rosa & win the stage... very difficult... both.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by team fl » Tue May 18, 2021 8:35 am

Not much to add from my side, very nice statistics and comments in this thread. During the last stage, my online time got better and better, although to ride exclusively with the new version is a challenge from time to time, e.g. forgetting things like put in fighting for Timo and Jay yesterday before the crucial last hill :oops: . But so far, I like the the dynamic of this Afternoon Giro (the only real Giro of course) with CC winning a bit too much ;).

For my team, the results were underwhealming, mainly due to my non presence or lack of tactical abilities in the new version. But then again, Bana(na, nice nickname, props to AAD) made the first 10 days worthwhile for Team FL, wearing the maglia azzurra currently. Usually, the mountain classement is not something I look for, this is kind of a new experience, while still not 100% committed. I just hope that there will be at least 1 stage win for FL, maybe out of an escape as a sprint win for Wheeler seems very unrealistic. Besides that, we're having fun and looking cool, so everything is fine 8-) .
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Tue May 18, 2021 10:31 am

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 12:06 am
flockmastoR wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 5:02 pm
Zverenvergen who rode for DeWitt.
Zevenbergen who rode for DeWit!
flockmastoR wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 5:02 pm
If there is no crash by Bonicacio the 15h edition will witness an italian Maglia Bianca winner.
Bonifacio!

Not sure if drunk or revenge for calling Karatzoglou Karatzoglu in Fairplay section :D Apologies for that!! :D

Anyway love those statistics! DeWit playing a huge role here in the first week. On paper a contender for rosa, ciclamino and azzurra. He's happy with the stage win and his main goal is to wear rosa for as long as possible. If he wins one of the three jerseys at the end, it will be a nice bonus.

Today the expected fight sprinters vs. hill sprinters. Sprinters won, but this time Wallinder! Not Snel! Incredibile!

Now we use the rest day to try to come up with a tactic for Wednesday... objectives: keep rosa & win the stage... very difficult... both.
Sry Gip. No this is no revenge, usually I double-check the names, but I forgot it in the text passage. I could edit it, but now my embarassing mistake is already quoted. I could delete your post too, thx to my god-like moderator rights, but won't do that either.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 18, 2021 11:36 am

Half time, almost.... still 1'15", so I'm on my way to the Giro win. Unless we take into account what stages exactly are missing.

So far 5 teams won stages, good, 4 missing. CC with 6 overdoing it a bit. But the second half will be less sucessful for him, we let the boys play early, now the men take over! So no more Top 6 finishes for me either, 9x top 5, once 6th, now it will be top 12 :(

Next 2 relatively open stages, Montalcino, Strade Bianche, GC and stage, which means that the non GC teams are favored to win the stage. AAD with Wolfowitz? FL with whoever? CC of course! Sindarov? Best pavé of all climbers! Not that pavé has any influence on gravel roads, except for mysterious reasons it seems to have....
GC Attila to lose time, seems unavoidable. Then Big Donkey wants to win time to Skeljvik. I suppose fantasticos wants to win time on Eiffel. DeWit wants to win time on Skeljvik and Eiffel. Everybody doesn't want to lose time to anybody else. What will happen most likely though is that fantasticos and Big Donkey lose time with one of their leaders, not a huge amount maybe, but some. Apicella in my case, thus out of the GC. Gajalo for fantasticos? Or since his pavé skill (why does RKL keep mentioning that??) are better than Skeljviks (and Eiffel's) maybe he manages to stay there even without the same amount of help as Skeljvik? Difficult, but who knows.

Next day then a difficult middle mountain stage, normally Otero and the other classics favorite, but after the presumably hard gravel stage.... not everybody might be fit, leaders yes, helpers... difficult to control, lots could happen. GC wise too.

In a way these 2 stages are the most dangerous for fantasticos. While it's unlikely that he loses minutes and minutes, he could lose some time to DeWit or a Donkey over these 2 stages. Of course he could win time too.

Then another sprint, Messerli to finish 8th or 1st.

Stage 14 then the classic GC stages start. Zoncolan, the easy side, still hard enough. And easier to control for fantasticos than the stages with just a short climb are, here he has enough km at the end to get back lots of time.

Grado Gorizia then is another stage for the classics, Otero the favorite, if he decides to ride for the stage. Fitness after stage 14 should IMO be ok, as mentioned above, he can let the group more time and still catch it on the Zoncolan stage. But with stage 16 coming he might want to save energy, depending on how big the escape group is.

Stage 16 then, Fedaia-Pordoi-Giau! Yeah! Not even a bad stage for the Donkey, with the downhill he should manage to get some time back to fantasticos. Who will still win normally, Skeljvik just too superior on the climb. But long, here he will need to control, DeWit, Ballabeni, suicidal Sindarov, 2 Donkeys, Valter all might try attacks from far.

So, if everything goes according to fantasticos plan (or what would be my plan if I was fantasticos) Skeljvik will be ahead by at least 1' over Eiffel, and a bit less over DeWit. He should win 2 to 4 stages too, but as GC favorite it's not always THAT easy to win those stages that are for Otero. My fearless prediction: Wolfowitz-some random FL from the escape-Wallinder-Skeljvik-random Equinox-Skeljvik. Without actually checking... should be ok, like this anyway. Or will it be Moretti-Coderch-Stakhanov-Apicella-Teixeira-Faye?
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Wed May 19, 2021 5:23 pm

Very interessting stage. First a little group by Akos Detreköi (Alive And Dead), Mikkel Bork, FinnSeverin Heisterkamp (Equinox) and Santiago Stolk (Team FL) that came to 12min gap and then stopped. Mosca was riding to get the group back to 3 min before the first hard kms. Team FL brought Jay Blankenau and Bana Hassana to the group and the race was taking up speed again. After a sieb of Wilfried Nöbauer (Alive And Dead) the climbers were all dropped and Mosca continued to ride with his flat guns. Later on Alive And Dead took over the tempo and a group containing Bartholimäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer), Jacob Wolfowitz (Alive And Dead) and Yuji Nishida (Team FL) was formed. It worked together well and could reach the finish line 1:32 before new Maglia Rosa owner Nordibek Sindarov (CircleCycle) who won important seconds on Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey), and even more on the Maglia Rosa Willem DeWitt. In the sprint Brandt took the win with an unanswered 150m sprint.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 11/21 stages
00:00:00 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
00:00:19 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
00:00:32 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Days in Maglia Rosa
4 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
1 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
1 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
2 Gipfelstuermer
1 Alive And Dead
1 fantasticos
1 Mosca
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