The real Giro 21: Afternoon

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CircleCycle
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Wed May 19, 2021 6:18 pm

Sindarov in rosa! Nice! Strongest of the climbers by stats on that profile, rather chanceless against strong classics. So not really favo for another stagewin, but it seemed quite clear he could gain enough time on DeWit and Skeljvik to get the maglia rosa.
The stage itself was interesting. Mosca did more km of tempo than in the 10 stages before combined - unfortunately it didn't pay off, as the finish was too hard for Fabrizio Oss. Next chance in 2 days (or in an escape tomorrow?), but then this kind of efforts will be called tempo for Snel again....

Good attack by Wolfowitz, Brandt then strongest at the +3 sprint.

Koskov and co. arrived safely with 27'28, so all good. Big training coming up tonight: Who will get lucky? Some small percentage (mountain-)training could make the difference for the remainder of the GIRO.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed May 19, 2021 6:38 pm

This stage really deserved min-tact! Can we have 2-min-tact for gravel stages in Grand Tours? :D

1) Watching the Giro explode in real life
2) Trying to defend rosa
3) Trying to win the stage

All at the same time was definitely too much. But 1) and 3) worked out :-)

How it unfolded
Early escape seemed to have good chances, but again FL, AAD and Equinox did not find collaboration until the end. Main reason here seemed to be that Equinox was tired of being the only escapist with a puller. Yes, can be annoying as the most active escapist, but usually better to continue in such case. This way it was very easy for Mosca to catch them. Otherwise collaboration might not work in peloton and escape suddenly has a chance.

Ah yes, Mosca tempo.... presumably for WürtzSchmidt or Oss... So in hindsight I raise the question - as an analogy for CC - "Should pavé sprinters ride for Brandt?" In fact I was surprised to see Mosca start tempo in peloton given that ** is not that super selective and there were the sieb-km in the final. Maybe he thought he is amomgst favos as no other started riding in peloton? Maybe he was still enthusiastic after his recent stage win? Not sure... He surely wasn't favorite as much as Brandt here. Only Problem for Brandt was DeWit in rosa. Otherwise I would have been all-in for a Brandt win here.

Like this, I thought it's perfect for rosa and stage. After initial sieb, all climbers were together and the race between climbers delayed. In front seemed a good situation for Brandt. But with the next gravel sector, DeWit and Skeljvik quickly lost time on Sindarov and Eiffel. It also became clear DeWit was weaker than Skeljvik today. Not sure if fantasticos made some mistakes regarding tempo during this sector or just expected me to do the work for rosa... but as it still seems mainly a fight Skeljvik vs Eiffel in GC and fantasticos had way more riders dedicated to the early chase, made sense to let him start. I mean, DeWit and Sindarov are doing well, but normally they have no chance after the big mountains and the TT.... Also I think I had three riders in front, fanta only one, so I could contribute later after further siebs. Seemed more efficient to me.

So start of the collaboration a bit 'holprig' and DeWit was even forced to make tempo at the end of the sector to then let Zevenbergen help (I dropped him from the front) and that's where fantasticos started to join. DeWit with more tempo and less helpers at this point was definitely a risk for me, but it paid off as fantasticos and my collaboration was very nice later on. He waited one or two times, I dropped my pavé heroes Gagneux and Majerus to help DeWit and Skeljvik. Very nice collaboration in the end, limited time less to Eiffel to 43" and to Sindarov to 51". Impressive ride from this Sindarov again. Will his form ever decline in this race? As long as it doesn't decline, he might defend rosa now.

The race for the stage win was ahead of the GC race. We were lucky that the Wolfowitz attack created a nice 3 rider group (Wolfowitz, Nishida, Brandt) , which collaborated well. That made the decision easier to drop Majerus and Gagneux in order to help DeWit and Skeljvik. FL and AAD both with good communicative and tempo here. They even started believing in the group slightly too late and only asked Brandt about his tactics shortly before the final sieb km. So Brandt was able to decide either to sieb or to collaborate, which was a nice option considering his better sprint skill and the final +3 km. Therefore, a fantastic win by Brandt on a super prestigious stage. If I could pick one stage win before the Giro, would have been this stage. A nice career highlight for 33-year-old Brandt (whose skill and form might only decline from now on).
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 19, 2021 6:58 pm

Disagree on delayed, GC fight. I think having the Mosca group in front, then later AAD, and the rest in the back, made the GC fight start earlier. Like this we had riders to drop back. That's where the big time gains were made too I think, once Eiffel early vs nobody in the back. Then later DeWit, effect Apicella in the back lost lots and lots there. He was 1" back after the rather pointless sieb by Vaiaho? HOpe got the name right, but probably not...a little bit more when the 8 climb came, 30" after DeWit rode that...So it's really those guys we could drop from the back that made the differenc,e and I think it made the GC race start earlier. And I probably profited from it, at least had that impression during the race. Doubt could have won 43" without the front dropping.

Finally GC wise did it quite well, some dropping mistakes, but in the end most were ok too. Collaboration with CC was... spotty :D More theoretical than practical really. He kept siebing me. Not on purpose, but his riders just always were too strong for mine... And in the early one where the first differences started, first I siebed Vaiaho with Trewlove, saw that in the replay, but Vaiaho then didn't ride. Then did the one km with Eiffel, and then Vaiaho and Trewlowe really were out, no sense waiting, use somebody from ahead, Lim for him, Teixeira, who I missed to make wait, for me. Lim rides, siebs me, bah... it's not that I didn't want to collaborate, it's that Eiffel then was back with Teixeira who had finally waited and chasing at a few seconds with Lim and Sindarov in hte Moscatrain.... So CC asked why I didn't want to collaborate.. of course I wanted, just didn't work. Not siebing Vaiaho ok, but the time we gained with the Eiffel km was huge, more for me than you sure, so that was worth it. Problem then Teixeira not waiting, otherwise we could have done TEixeira does the pavé, LIm takes over after, unless we do the sieb again and wait for the next one, Coderch then.
In the downhill after, yeah, I went out, almost went out before you dropped one of your helpers. Was pissed off at the pointless sieb behind (30"+ back, how is he supposed to come back) so for sure after you dropped them. Plus made sense anyway, your guy was just 100x faster than Coderch. And then of course it was clear that Eiffel would land behind Sindarov at the next gravel section again, nothing any of us could do about that, ok you could ride green, but what's the point for you.... stage was gone, time secondary for you, just roas is enough.


In front, I missed the block... AAD out early, I think. Moretti in? What for? Seems the right thing to do, instinctively, but what for? ok, if I drop Baaba, then Baaba can wait And I can try to bring moretti over the hill to help the last few km... or something like that, so in. But too late. Still don't really see why I wanted to block, just seemed right to do it and still seems. So grr on that one. Wasn't going to have a chance for stage with Moretti anyway, Baaba difficult too. But Eiffel was main concern anyway....

Now 43" gained so 2' again? Not bad, not bad, but doubt it's enough. But I'll help chase DeWit from now on. Or for a while.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Wed May 19, 2021 7:26 pm

At the start I really had no clue how to ride this stage. Leaders was the first thing, Schwackhöfer was a helper from the start so my foursome Rinderknech, Wolfowitz, Schöning and Nöbauer are as fit as possible in the final phase. Of course didn't want to make tempo behind to catch a than working escape, so I put Akos in (doesn't mean I wouldn't be 100% for the group if it is working).

Plan was try a bit of a sieb and relax watching the GC teams battle each other, then go all in with Nöbauer and Schöning and look who stays. Rinderknech somehow a strange leader, not much pave but good flat. At some point wanted to go earlier with Schöning and Rinderknech and Wolfowitz hanging on one of the Gips. But due to the meeting I missed the point were this made sense. So just tempo with Schöning and attack with Wolfowitz. Tried blue and hang Rinderknech but too weak to follow. Wouldn't really change much. In the end I just wasn't concentrated enough to see the +3 final km. Jacob saved some energy in the pave section but Brandt still +6 difference on mountain and +2 in sprint, so should have taken a break of some km. Well Jacob would have really enjoyed to win this stage but it's the GIRO and no Schnitzelrennen to quote an afternoon college.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Wed May 19, 2021 8:41 pm

Yeah, not too easy to cooperate in that situation, I hoped that either Vaiaho or Lim could stay with Sindarov. If I send O'Riordan back instead of Fakasega then Trewlow won't sieb, and it gets easier. And of course I could also wait with sending Lim back to Sindarov for km124. 1min just not enough to decide on such things, when you have to watch what happens at the end of the field too.
And after Trewlove siebing I didn't expect that Eiffel is doing the next km. Probably Lim in green that km117, not to sieb Eiffel? and then Lim should just ride after he was siebed from the Mosca group. Thats the way to stay in front, even when Coderch is doing km124! Also there I did not expect that you don't wait for Teixeira. Same mistake by me as before with Trewlove. But then again, not much difference? I'll ride the downhill, but from km 138 Eiffel will most likely not keep up with Sindarov and we have pretty much the same situation, probably a few seconds more, but certainly not enough to have a chance for the stage.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu May 20, 2021 6:02 pm

After losing DeWit's maglia rosa but winning the stage thanks to Brandt yesterday, today a real killer climber stage from Siena through Florenz to Bagno di Romagna. 209km with 3,860m elevation gain will only be topped on Monday's king stage (212km, 5,120 elevation gain).

Our intial plan was to continue attacking in the hope of getting back into maglia rosa, but with Sindarov in rosa and the Eiffel/Skeljvik fight looking more balanced now, our DS doubted, if attacking is the right strategy. Too many reasons for others to ride in peloton. In fact, Big Donkey had announced already before the stage, that he was going to chase DeWit in case of an attack.

At the start of the stage, fantasticos asked if we cooperated for the chance of a stage win. Although Otero looked like the favorite with 63 sprint, we agreed given that attacking today did not seem too promising. Fanta and I shared our duties, sometimes riding together, sometimes one riding for other, also depending on who had how many helpers in peloton throughout the hilly race. Very good collaboration from my point of view. We gave up to 7' to an escape from Equinox, FL and AAD and on the top of Passo della Calla it seemed like they might even make it. But again, the collaboration in the escape did not last until the end. While on other stages, I either thought Equinox did not like to ride for Bana's maglia azzurra or Equinox did not like to be the only one with a puller, today's end of collaboration was even more mysterious. I mean, Bana was there for maglia azzurra, but I think Equinox is not fighting for that anymore, so shouldn't be a problem. And FL also brought a puller. Maybe Equinox can explain one day?

So the escape was caught on the final Passo del Carnaio and the peloton was split into multiple groups. Firstly a group of climbers, then the group with the strong classics Brandt, Lyfenko and Otero, then the other classics and then even more groups... Apicella rode for the climbers, but the most promising climber was again Sindarov who set off an impressive attack on the flat/downhill section. Much like Nibali in today's real life Giro!! But different from Nibali, it would have been for the stage win and so Brandt, Lyfenko and Otero gave everything to catch Sindarov on the last km.

Maybe due to catching Sindarov so late, the sprint was very hectic. fantasticos was able to build a train but Otero was leading Lyfenko and Skeljvik, while we had expected a different order. (Most likely fantasticos had problem with sprint settings in app. It's a nightmare. If I am not at home, I prefer app for the race, but then switch to Puffin for the sprint.) Therefore, we told Ballabeni and Brandt to launch and DeWit to try to follow the right move. His problem was having Eiffel on the wheel, but similar to Brandt yesterday, going from 150m was the perfect decision. Eiffel couldn't pass DeWit anymore and at least fanta got second place with Lyfenko. Having 1 and 2 after collaboration was quite good, even if the sprint result was a bit unexpected.

For DeWit and the team it is amazing. Second stage win for him, Third stage win for the team. In addition, some boni seconds and some points for maglia ciclamino. DeWit now 22'' behind Sindarov, 7'' behind Eiffel and 24'' ahead of Skeljvik. Everything possible in GC, even if naturally Eiffel and Skeljvik remain the big favorites ahead of the big mountains and the ITT.

Tomorrow another tough 198km race, but competely flat, so we expect the sprint teams, in particular CC and Mosca to work for a sprint. Others might escape or save energy for the Zoncolan on the following day. That is going the be a major shake up in the GC.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Thu May 20, 2021 8:23 pm

Question of the day: Could the 3man group make it, if they continue? I don't know about their remaining power, when they stopped.
Inspired attack by maglia rosa Sindarov! Maybe too early though? Riding km 197-200 and attack at km201? This time followers would have been appreciated :mrgreen: Of course no reason for DeWit or Eiffel to follow, but Suero there could have risked it. Not much too lose, but could gain some time. Difficult to say. The sprint? Did fantasticos try to get boni with Suero? That was even more risky than the aforementioned following...
So another win by DeWit, with Eiffel getting 3rd and also taking bonis. Not ideal for Snel, who was declared as main favo for that maglia ciclamino, but sees himself now under a lot of pressure to deliver on stage 13 tomorrow.

On the other end of the field the first rider abandoned the GIro today. Gianni Salerno (Mosca) got siebed as early as km 10, did fall even behind Koskov and never managed to come back. Mosca being offline sealed the fate of the rider, who did so much tempo the day before.
Later on the gruppetto around Koskov and fighting Fertz (fantasticos) got carried by Santiago Stolk(Team FL) and C.J. Faye (CC), so there never was a danger and they arrived happily with with little less than 30min gap to the eventual winning group.

Stage 13 tomorrow (on a friday) will be the last chance for a MS. Can Wheeler get the first win for Team FL? Can Wallinder repeat his victory from stage 10? Is Messerli going to claim his second stagewin in a GT? Will we see another win by Snel? Or can an early or late escape surprise? The answers will be given tomorrow at the Porta Nuova in Verona.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 21, 2021 8:31 am

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 12/21 stages
00:00:00 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
00:00:15 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
00:00:22 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Days in Maglia Rosa
4 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
1 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
3 Gipfelstuermer
1 Alive And Dead
1 fantasticos
1 Mosca
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 21, 2021 8:35 am

Hard to say if the group can make it energy wise, on the climbs I always thought "way to less" after the downhills I was hoping again. With Equinox not willing to even explain he has now disqualified for collaboration for the A&D squad. After his "ok for now" in the chat I was kind of expecting this already but thought he might just work together if he sees it is working out ok. Can only imaging he has something agains Akos for resting the other day. But as he refuses to explain we will just try to find groups without him, which means chances for working groups won't really increase and we will probably also chase him and counter attack. Not really fun but it is not fun either to allways waste the minimal stage chances for nothing.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 21, 2021 5:11 pm

Minor changes on the podium as DeWitt sprinted at the IS and got a second. Late group with 2 Donkeys and 2 Gipfelstuermer (including Giro stage winner Brandt) had no chance against the sprinter teams. In the bunch sprint, Team FL sprint train had some troubles blocking themselfes and so Wallinder (Mosca) could win his second stage from Ciclamino leader Snel's wheel.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 13/21 stages
00:00:00 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
00:00:15 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
00:00:21 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Days in Maglia Rosa
4 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
3 Gipfelstuermer
2 Mosca
1 Alive And Dead
1 fantasticos
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 21, 2021 6:31 pm

Still surprised to have won time, that much, on the way to Montalcino. Now can afford to lose something like 24" per mountain stage. Ha! We'll see how tomorrow will be ridden.

Donkey continues his placements, never worse than 6th so far.

GC, with these 2 minutes I can lose I'll help controlling DeWit and Sindarov, Valter and Wheeler if they try GC attacks. But still can't help fantasticos for the stages, to me looks too likely that it ends something like 1 Skeljvik-DeWit-Gajalo/Eiffel/Valter. So 6" to 10" lost in bonifications, which is no good at all. So tomorrow I expect another boring spectator day for the Donkey really... doubt an attack really makes sense tomorrow by any of the others. But we'll see.

Anyway, Donkey is having motivation problems a bit here by now too.... Not because of the lack of success, more because it looks like it will be all rather boring for him. Wait, cover, chase. Wait, cover chase. And that 5 times. Ok, could start making plans for own attacks if the 2' seem to disappear too fast, but since right now it seems I can at least attempt to keep it with the wait-cover-chase thing... bah.

Ciclamino... Snel vs DeWit, I didn't even consider Snel until thank to my great mind I discovered that he was the guy Gipfel kept hinting at when talking about Ciclamino. Now he says it will be difficult for DeWit, since he's more interested in riding for GC. Good! But well, riding for GC, arriving in the top 3 of mountain stages gives you points automatically. Didn't do any calculations really, so have no idea who is the favorite between the 2.

Teixeira, maybe Moretti, siebing Vaiaho is really the only thing I'm really looking forward too right now.

GC, I still see Skeljvik as no 1. Then Eiffel. Then DeWit. That normally should be the podium, and as I said IMO that order at this point is still the likeliest. Maybe see it wrong due to Eiffel being my incredibly boring star, usually we see our weaknesses clearer than our strenghts...
Behind those 3 IMO rather open, Sindarov surviving by hanging on to Eiffel until the last few km? Suppose he had early form... so will suffer more now. Gajalo working with Skeljvik still good for 4th? Or Valter coming back from behind? Even Apicella, if he decides to ride for himself and not Eiffel maybe can get 4th? In his attempt to get first...
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Fri May 21, 2021 9:13 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 6:31 pm
Still surprised to have won time, that much, on the way to Montalcino. Now can afford to lose something like 24" per mountain stage. Ha! We'll see how tomorrow will be ridden.
If he could have kept Sindarovs pace, he'd gain even more. :D

Todays stage, MS, and while I am happy with the result for Snel (48 pts for ciclamino) not too happy about how the race and especially the sprint went. Wallinder of course too strong for Snel, but the FL train without any chance because he was blocked when his riders automatically tried to go right, when everything was free on the left side.
Fl asked why I was so pessimistic about a Snel victory, so here the answer. He had topform for stage 2, for which I had my reasons to set it that early, while I expect other sprinters (especially Messerli) to have it later. Probably thats also why Snel could win the sprint at stage 5 with Wallinder in his wheel. Furthermore today he could also make up to 12pts with the intermediates(did indeed take 8), which to me seemed worth trying it, once there was no early escape.
Fight for ciclamino now the on the agenda, but also bringing Koskov to the TT. Will be lots of tempo and I hope I don't have to sacrifice one of them in order to keep the dream of the other rider alive.
Sindarov will give everything tomorrow to defend the maglia rosa for one more day, 15" to Eiffel, 21" to DeWit will be hard enough, but I am afraid Skeljvik taking more than 46" (36" + stagewin) is very likely. We will see how long he can stay in the group with Eiffel, but once he gets dropped there the dream is over. Still a great Giro for the CC climber, no matter what happens in the remaining stages.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Sat May 22, 2021 5:08 pm

Hard stage GC wise, Willem DeWitt (Gipfelstuermer) fights back into the Maglia Rosa as the hard tempo of both fantasticos was too hard for the former Maglia Rosa Sindarov (CircleCycle) and GC co-favo Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey). In the end Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos) attacks on the last steep kms and is now in the favorite position for the Giro win.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 14/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:03 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:20 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
5 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
3 Gipfelstuermer
2 fantasticos
2 Mosca
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 22, 2021 5:43 pm

Well, he really was in that position before.

My big hope was that he didn't understand that siebing was enough. He did, that's it. There's not much I can do defensively. So at least I get to make masterplans again now, meaning, where can I attack... In the end doesn't matter if I get second or 4th. Or 5th. But well, he's better everywhere than my team almost, won't be that easy, but we'll see.

Stage easy, the escape fight made it really easy for fantasticos, now the biggest risk is falling asleep for him. :lol:

After tomorrow has the potential to be much harder though...well, almost automatic really.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Sun May 23, 2021 2:54 pm

As expected Sindarov, once siebed and behind Eiffel, will lose a lot of time and the maglia rosa. No big deal though. Stage was boring as f..., no real escape once again, no hard siebs early and an easy win for Skeljvik.
Fakasega tried to escape the Teixera/Moretti siebs but didn't go anywhere and the only other interesting thing in the first 100+ kms I remember was Stakhanov blocking an attack of Baaba at km93.

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Sun May 23, 2021 4:50 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 15/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:07 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:24 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
6 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
3 fantasticos
3 Gipfelstuermer
2 Mosca
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Robyklebt
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 23, 2021 5:32 pm

Escape, but that looked unlikely to work since a) the stage pretendents had already agreed to cooperate yesterday and b) Equinox would be there and so far his riding in groups had been... well, special. So Teixeira day, no puller, one unfit guy tomorrow is enough, cooperation in front worked well, in the back too though, still, caught only at the last 6, so we went far.

Coderch and Faye tried something after the steeper hill before, seemed a good place, with nice follower who knows? Difficult with the 6 and high tempo by Skeljvik likely there if a group is ahead, but no followers except Sindarov. Who well, shouldn't have in retrospect, lost some time in the end. And more tragically maybe the lead in the all important trofeo asino :lol: Haven't calculated yet... Ok, not sure who exactly should follow since Gipfel is in for DeWit ciclamino, fantasticos for Otero sprint and easy GC control, AAD behind anyway... Nishida, only thought of him before the attack, no idea if there were others that could try. But well, nobody did, caught even faster than I thought . Last 6, sieb by Skeljvik, AADs in the back, easy sprint win for Otero. Now we're in the fantasticos domination phase, he can win a bunch of stages now.. Tomorrow, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Thursday haven't looked at it that closely yet, but well, with Otero normally chances there too. Hm, have to check his trofeo asino performance again..

For the Donkey with the maglia rosa rather unlikely, after all the steep Sega di Ala and Alpe diMera look like anotehr sure big time loss stage, even more than tomorrow (not to say that tomorrow isn't another big time loss stage, just a bit less automatic than those 2 others) focus now is on escapes...Best chance probably on Thursday?
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 23, 2021 5:35 pm

Ah, tomorrow the big day for Koskov I suppose. As long as Teixeira gets to sieb Vaiaho he can help, STakhanov too. But actually with the early climb there, La Crosetta, might ride in my own group at first, depending on how wild it is. Probably all calm down again after that, if there is action at all.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Bear » Sun May 23, 2021 7:36 pm

Most of the time it's too much to read here :-) But afternoon Giro is what it is, also 2021. I am rooting for deWit now. He is kind of the David here and he does it very well so far. Eiffel seems to be very boring... at least that's what I read a lot :-P

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sun May 23, 2021 10:10 pm

Yesterday fanta and AAD asked if we collaborate for stage today like on stage 3. Bah, stage 3? DeWit got 4th there with 0 chance vs Lim and the Greek... so didn't sound very attractive and I didn't really confirm my help yesterday.

Today looked at the profile. Less opportunities for evil CC attacks and the +6 at the end... I thought ok, maybe if the sieb isn't too hard, the AAD guys can fight and be there for the final. So didn't really expect fanta to sieb with Skeljvik. Of course that is cruel because no chance for AAD to hang on although he worked a lot! Maybe Eiffel sieb or DeWit sieb, AAD also gets dropped, but not 100% sure. Even if he gets dropped and it is just 6'', slightly better chances to get back compared to a Skeljvik sieb... cruel thing... but ok, CC and I are the Klugscheißers here, claiming we knew it before. But of course we did not know if Skeljvik is actually going to sieb there. In fact, I thought he might not because of the good collaboration and because he can easily bring it together if anybody attacks there. Otero and Lyfenko by far the strongest classics here.

What did it mean for Gip team? Well, no ideal sprint from DeWit this time. Stage 12 bad sprint from fanta gave DeWit a chance. This time bad sprint from him gives fanta the easy win. Not perfect, but it happens. If everybody always sprinted perfectly, there was no collaboration in peloton whatsoever... After all, the result was ok regarding rosa (4'' boni, now leading by 7'') and ciclamino (good points, now 37 points behind Snel). So it made sense to ride for the stage even if Big Donkey and Team FL were surprised by that.

Now need to defend 7'' against Skeljvik on 4 mountain stages... seems very unlikely, but we can try.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 24, 2021 4:03 am

I wasn't suprised by it.

I just made fun of you. A few days ago you were telling the world how it would be right to let a group through.....
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flockmastoR
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 24, 2021 11:37 am

Well in fact I didn't expect fanta to put in Skeljvik on that 6 when there was absolutely no need for that risk. Doing the early chase job with Gip and fanta was the way to avoid DeWitt or Skeljvik in tempo there. But have to live with it (not that it will change any future cooperation here. There is no chance for AAD left).

Only because DeWitt got 4th on stage 3 is not an argument at all, I think it was also an error of yours not to be in tempo at the CC attack. And if I remember right you much likely profited from my action on the gravel stage while your contribution was to hang with Brandt and use your guys for the GC fight.

In fact just telling me that I am stupid because I try to ride for where I see chances for my team (which are not very many) or making fun afterwards (between the lines) while you also profit from my help is what made me call you Klugscheißer. So just tell me your wisdom right before I help you and it's ok.
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  • 10 GC wins
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Robyklebt
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 24, 2021 6:18 pm

That was fun. Both the Donkey and Gipfelstürmer used Bana to place riders in front. (Actually I would have happily tried for stage too with Faye, wasn't necessarily an attacking option, although that clearly was possible too), but fantasticos has 2 of his flat riders there too. Good move, with that after the first climb he could let them drop back and ride while others, like the poor Donkey, didn't have enough helpers for all leaders anymore already.

Group caught, first big chase group with the flat riders comes back, next attack goes, again Donkeys and Gipfel there, this time Gipfel with a puller too. fantasticos chases hard again, bottom of the Fedaia, then there he goes a bit slower at first, but soon put in his classics, catching Bana and the counter attacks by FL on the way, Baaba and Joost survived and kept going. Coderch managed to come back after a chase in the downhill.

Pordoi, over for the 2 in front, 4 fantasticos, everyboy else with 3 guys.... so only DeWit with a real advantage, or possibly Skeljvik too, if Gajalo was helping him.

Giau: Skeljvik first sieb, Eiffel gone. 84, while 85 DeWit always stays on, a bit depressing. But ok, today the helping played a part too for sure, Eiffel had 0 helpers at times, played both cards.

Then the surprise of the day, after dominating, crushing the race, and we tried to make it hard, fantasticos didn't attack. He just rode up, My plan destroyed... which was he attacks, DeWit chases, Apicella sucks, then hopes to have a chance in the sprint. For place 2 maybe, but who knows, 80 downhill, maybe can be for the win? But no attack, so... bah. Anyway, Eiffel didn't need Apicella today, the difference in time loss minimal I thought, he has Apicella to carry him up, maybe he fights and loses as much as riding, then downhill Eiffel has to do himself anyway. So Apicella with freedom today. But well, didn't work. Fantasticos said was afraid that then Eiffel would come back (hadn't thought of that, of course Eiffel would then catch the group, then most likely hang on, so would be in that group too) But still... Seljvik attacking 4 km or so from the top, he would have not 20" seconds on Eiffel like it was this way, but close to 30" if DeWit rides after Eiffel catches the group. More if Eiffel rides alone, then it's probably 40". But ok his team, he can do whatever he wants, but thought it surprising that he didn't even try to get the stage. Of course he still has 3 mountain top arrivals that he should win very easily, so doesn't need this one.. ok ok. Just that my masterplan with Apicella failed again like this, grrr. :twisted: Only 22" lost for Eiffel, well, fantasticos going up slowly but as well this was the most Eiffel-friendly mountain stage. With the downhill in the end where he can hope to gain back time (he lost, but doesn't matter, if Skeljvik had attacked he would have had less energy and Eiffel would have gained a bit, and Eiffel actually had won a second until the last km where he lost 3" to DeWit attacking)

Anyway, fun day, nothign to win for the Donkeys, but it was fun. More than it will be in 2 days...

Anyway, fun stage, Sindarov loser of the day, as expected, but he won't care, he has 2 stages, perfect. And even with helpers, Cubas and Draupnisson, fit here, doesn't change much, he did everything right this Giro, if in GC he ends up 5th or 8th, 9th or 15th doesn't really matter. It won't be 15th anyway.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 24, 2021 7:17 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 16/21 stages
00:00:00 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:00:17 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:56 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)
1 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
4 Gipfelstuermer
3 fantasticos
2 Mosca
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon May 24, 2021 9:47 pm

Today the cima coppi stage to Cortina d'Ampezzo with Fedaia, Pordoi and Giau! Despite bad weather, we kept the route as it was, not like the real life Giro...

Early attack with lots of teams, including Baaba Faye and Joost Zevenbergen, but excellently covered by fanta. Having two flat riders there was the perfect move from him for the first mountain (La Crossetta). Gave him a helper advantage for a while which otherwise he probably wouldn't have had vs. Donkey or my team. That made further attacks very difficult, even if the second escape of Faye and Zevenbergen got up to 2' and so they made it over Fedaia and helper advantage was neutralized. But so at that point, fanta had everything under control.

For Pordoi and Giau, everyone had to focus to even stay in the wheel of that fanta team. Best climbers and best classics is always a great combination! Somehow DeWit didn't get dropped on the Giau, perhaps because he had 2 helpers most of the time while Eiffel perhaps had less helpers on average (seems so as he got dropped and Apicella not). Before the stage most likely scenario to me seemed DeWit and Eiffel chasing Skeljvik downhill but as DeWit was in front, he could just follow and wait for the sprint.

On the last km, DeWit even tried an attack but as expected Skeljvik followed. But unexpectedly Skeljvik did not sprint. Maybe he forgot to? Or just didnt see any chance? Good for DeWit who beat Valtter and Apicella in the sprint and secured his third stage win alongside 10'' boni seconds. So DeWit still in rosa! Can't believe it! Now 17'' ahead of Skeljvik, who will try to win the jersey back in the third week with 3 difficult mountain stages. DeWit also in the race for maglia ciclamino and maglia azzurra but he will focus on rosa as long as possible... but 3 mountain top finishes seem very difficult...

Sega di Ala on Wednesday a hell of a climb...
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
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