The real Giro 21: Afternoon

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by CircleCycle » Wed May 26, 2021 2:59 pm

Interesting stage indeed. Great help by FL riders Stolk, Tammemaa and Wheeler in the gruppetto so we didn't lose any weak & tired riders on the way to Cortina!
Goals for the next 4 stages are easy. Keep Koskov in the race, have the team as fit as possible to carry him through the mountains, while support Sindarov when needed. Maybe join the escape at one stage? Or just watch the fight for gc and mountain jersey and enjoy the last few days of the Giro.
If Koskov keeps the TT skill he could end his career with a win in the final TT in Milano :D

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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Wed May 26, 2021 5:12 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 17/21 stages
00:00:00 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:06 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:01:11 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
2 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
4 Gipfelstuermer
4 fantasticos
2 Mosca
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed May 26, 2021 7:32 pm

Stage 17 to Sega di Ala via Passo San Valentino. Obviously a stage for Skeljvik.

And Gipfel from App... so was prepared to do nothing. Then suddenly Snel in escape... bah... what to do? Let him go or chase because of ciclamino? I hesitated because of app but also because of difficult situation... CC's plan not too bad... make my decision hard to ride for rosa or ciclamino or azzurra or whatever...

Eventually decided to ride, basically because it was for ciclamino AND azzurra. If only Snel is in front or only Hassana is in front (or I have somebody in front), probably I don't ride. Like this, I thought better to ride and hoped that the escape realizes that escape chances are much higher without Snel... Well, didn't work out, they continued and after a first sieb CC rode in peloton for Snel's ciclamino points. Hard but fair fight from him! 17 points ahead now, so it could work for Snel. But certainly I'm not giving up that easily. Showed that today.

I admit the ciclamino/azzurra fight destroyed chances for escapes and also chances to attack fanta, but the truth is today was not really the stage for me to attack fanta. His team seemed just too superior with the 2 best classics and 2 best climbers and good enough reg, at least when there is no mountain stage following. Also, if escapists today attack for stage or GC, I don't react. But like this, reaction seemed sensible.

So GC wise not much happened until the final climb to Sega di Ala. Skeljvik there of course the strongest, but only got rid of DeWit by attacking on +16%. In the end, DeWit lost 17'' plus 6'' boni. So now Skeljvik back in rosa, 6'' ahead of DeWit. 1'11'' ahead of Eiffel. Can DeWit get back into rosa somehow? Needs a miracle on the two mountain top finishes on Friday/Saturday.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 26, 2021 7:45 pm

Tried escapes, no success, but wasn't too surprising.

Final climb, tried something different this time. No fighting, ride behind the group. First sieb by Gajalo dropped, 4", Gajalo then went out and we came back. Even the guy behind Eiffel was let back. Seems an app mistake by fantasticos. Fighting back out, dropped again, 3" this time, then one km done by Skeljvik, 5" lost on the 12. Probably that one would have dropped Eiffel again? Or not this time since I understand nothing of this dropping... like Apicella dropped once in the 2 km that Gajalo did, not twice. That km tempo did the difference? Oh well.

Anyway, not sure if it was the right way, I just thought that if Skeljvik rides not only the 13 but lots of 10 too I just fight nonstop then lose lots in the end, like this thought dropped, ride a few seconds behind, Gajalo, then lose a bit less than with all the fighting overall. But maybe not... Ok, gained 5" on DeWit in the end from the 16% on, so not that bad. But maybe with fighting if I survived the 12 by Skeljvik, maybe less timeloss? Together with DeWit after the 16, if he rides too then (he has to) then some seconds less? Could be.. .but I decided to try it this way, And since I didn't plan to cover with Apicella in the group, I could cover behind it....

19" left to defend on paper, 2 more mountain stages, still looks like a lot will be missing at the end. Even if IMO fantasticos at times seems to try to win as little as possible. Even if his 90.6 form hint today is true, normally with 88.5 vs max 87 (DeWit) 88 (Apicella) 86(Eiffel)... he can gain more if he goes for it. And to me at least Gajalo didn't look like a 86.5 today... He gained 2" vs Apicella after we were dropped, and unless he had 2 helpers I don't see how that can happen really. Not with Apicella nominally stronger and having ridden 1 km more. And energy wise they should have been similar or Apicella stronger when the climb started (I gave both Eiffel and Apicella a helper)

Anyway, still nominally open, but if fantasticos makes no mistakes the 6" to DeWit should grow to over 20" easily, the 1'11" to Eiffel should grow to around 2' then even if he has a form disadvantage in the final TT, it all really should be no problem. Reg vs DeWit could be a concern, but with his team Skeljvik doesn't really have to do much before he goes and drops the rest.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Thu May 27, 2021 5:41 pm

Finally a new team winning a stage again, still missing: Team FL, Big Donkey, Palasteam

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 18/21 stages
00:00:00 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:06 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:01:11 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
3 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Brian Moore (Equinox)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
4 Gipfelstuermer
4 fantasticos
2 Mosca
1 Equinox
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Fri May 28, 2021 5:05 pm

Suero now the most successfull rider concerning stage wins and fantasticos can tie the teams stage races tomorrow with CC having the chances to fight back in the final ITT.

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 19/21 stages
00:00:00 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:21 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:01:33 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
4 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
4 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Brian Moore (Equinox)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
5 fantasticos
4 Gipfelstuermer
2 Mosca
1 Equinox
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 28, 2021 5:50 pm

Donkey dominating the team classement! That's what really counts. And still with chances in the Trofeo Asino.

For the rest the expected race today really, cover and chase, 23", so ok, but with an easier climb than 2 days ago less time loss could be expected. But already 3" back if we take the ITT at 1'30" for Eiffel.. not much to do really, don't really know where I could have lost much less time. Zoncolan 48" of course huge, dropped at the first km while fighting highly depressing, attacking on the last km and losing 6" to Apicella... but on steep km an attack gives you such a boost that it still might have been faster this way.

Today no last km attack, only 9%, hoped Apicella there would be faster than Eiffel attacking, no idea if it worked. But anyway, 3" back and fantasticos IMO easily could have gained more on a few stages, so... But ok, with form, luck whatever maybe I can gain 1'40" in the TT? So still 7" to defend, hihi.. or not.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Sat May 29, 2021 5:11 pm

Chase for Maglia Rosa, after 20/21 stages
00:00:00 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:22 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
00:01:36 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
5 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
5 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Brian Moore (Equinox)
1 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
6 CircleCycle
6 fantasticos
4 Gipfelstuermer
2 Mosca
1 Equinox
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 29, 2021 6:28 pm

Best mountain stage of all for me... Only 1'42" back now, need 15" extra seconds on luck or form... But well, normally over 29 km (where did the 30st km go?) luck can be expected to even out, but of course can happen. Just not all that likely.

Today the plan was clear, the result seemed as well. Attack after the IS with Trewlove and MOretti, ride, get 5'. Planning side, Expected result is something like we got, around 1' a bit more maybe.
Climb, Carter, very important rider for fantasticos this Giro, rides the San Bernardino. Attack with Coderch and Baaba, see how he reacts, think about going green with Eiffel at some point, if not do a sieb with Apicella to get rid of his classics and have them chase a bit before coming back. Didn't get to do that, Gipfel went earlier, never looked like he could risk the attack with DeWit though. And when I decided I would try the saving helpers thing Otero went in.

Then wait, Splügen, let Lyfenko ride, with all the flat in the downhill no real need to cover, unless fantasticos goes with Lyfenko and Skeljvik, Coderch can get him back. So put Eiffel on Lyfenko, just to be sure. If only Lyfenko goes and then a sieb of course bad..

Final climb, take the risk and don't cover a long time, went on Gajalo after a while, if attack would be double. Then last 2 km, Skeljvik tempo, Eiffel and Apicella were covering though. Gajalo and Valter try an attack, weird. Did fantasticos want the double attack there but was too late with Skeljvik? Last km attack, only 4", DeWit who sprinted too early same time as Eiffel, who won the sprint for 4", so only 10" lost today, actually 9", since lucky Tim got a bonus second at that anti-DeWit intermediate.

Fantasticos once again controlled all well, an attack from far wasn't really possible, that's why yesterday at first I tried to have him work in the back, weaken him a bit before today, but that didn't work either. ON app today, so not easy, but he managed well.
A bit like the whole tour though, very minimalistic, he could have won more today as well, like almost every day. Yes, not that much reg, but still...

So it's still kind of close, on paper
Skeljvik
Eiffel 15"
DeWit 32"
Gajalo 2'50"
Valter 3'04"

So Valtter Gajalo the other duel that relies on luck and form, Valter certainly seems in good form lately, but Gajalo IMO not that bad too.

Donkey no stage win this Giro, but feared that from the start a bit. Messerli really was the best chance. Doesn't matter, not too tragic, had that 2 years ago in the TdF, so even if a winless Giro is clearly worse, it's the first GT that you end without a stage that stings, now I'm experienced. And thanks to Gipfel being nice and handing out wins left and right in the last days I will win the team classification. And maybe Trofeo Asino, was a draw before, now 1 or 2 back? Tomorrow Need to have enough others between Eiffel and Ballabeni. Oh, Baaba even better, good good, should work.

Generally not an exciting Giro for me really, I had fun on the Giau stage, otherwise it really was just doing nothing and waiting to be dropped, try to limit the time loss. Last week daily escape attempts, but those flat stages escapes usually are not that exciting either. With only 2 opponents (which at least was in improvement over the 2 team fights that unfortunately have become a bit of the normal afternoon GTs) fantasticos was always in control, with his strong team, 2 best climbers, 2 best classics (with Brandt nr 2 shared), Carter, reg for flat riders, hard to do anything. Was hard last year vs Neumann too, but at least there I had the riders that could try something, and tried quite well I thought on the last stage, here with 84-86, little reg there really wasn't much I could do. Thought about attacks at times, but during the race, like today, it just looked like it would be attacks that are so hopeless it can't work. Parcours not ideal for tries either of course. The hard last climb too often, Sega di Ala, going early just looks suicidal with the 30" you're going to lose on a fresh 89 on the 16.... Giau and today ok, but with a fit team vs this fantasticos.. .hard. Oh well, preparing the TdF now. Or TdS first, really not eager to ride that same parcours as 2020 again, but with Eiffel who there looks to start as favorite, possibly even vs Skeljvik (haven't relooked at it that closely yet) I really have too.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 30, 2021 4:42 pm

Rosa, team classification and Trofeo Asino! At least I think I have the Trofeo Asino, CC an confirm hopefully.

Rosa... don't ask me why or how, winning 1'49" over Skeljvik with 10 more TT and 96 form.. shouldn't work, but did, so ok, why not, we win the Giro, narrowly escaping death by boredom. Neither especially deserved, memorable or exciting, feels more like a gifted win somehow. Or an accidental win.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 31, 2021 8:37 am

Final Standing Maglia Rosa winner:
00:00:00 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
00:00:07 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
00:00:30 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)

Maglia Ciclamino winner: Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
Maglia Azzurra winner: Bana Hassana (Team FL)
Maglia Bianca winner: Bonifacio Ballabeni (Gipfelstuermer)
Winner team score: Big Donkey

Days in Maglia Rosa
7 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
5 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
1 Franz Schwackhöfer (Alive And Dead)

Stage wins by riders:
5 Suero Skeljvik (fantasticos)
3 Willem DeWit (Gipfelstuermer)
3 Boudewijn Snel (CircleCycle)
2 Georgi Koskov (CircleCycle)
2 Elias Wallinder (Mosca)
2 Nordirbek Sindarov (CircleCycle)
1 Brian Moore (Equinox)
1 Alexandros Karatzoglou (Alive And Dead)
1 Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 Zenon Otero (fantasticos)

Stage wins by teams:
7 CircleCycle
6 fantasticos
4 Gipfelstuermer
2 Mosca
1 Equinox
1 Alive And Dead
Boaz Trakhtenbrot:
  • Winner Giro 2022
  • 10 GC wins
  • 16.609 Eternal Points
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by flockmastoR » Mon May 31, 2021 8:54 am

Personal analyse: Alexandros Karatzoglou saves us from a disaster by winning at least a stage at this years GIRO. Schwackhöfer was not able to win a stage here due to good old Koskov and also no luck at the 1-2 middle stages were he would have been able to win in a sprint. First time there was the Lim attack (Alexandros stage win) and second time the Suero sieb (still hard if he survives, probably not the best chances in a sprint there). But Franz could at least wear Rosa for one day. Karatzoglou could wear the Cicliamino for some days but was clear that he doesn't play a role there, or at least just if we ride super aggressiv for intermediate sprints troughout the whole Giro. Wolfowitz was there for the Montalcino stage mostly, he failed to win it against Brandt but all in all (except for the last 15km) A&D did a good job for this stage.

Escapes was a big problem in this Giro, at least for our riders. We should have just pulled through at the first chance of this years GIRO at stage 8, but with Mosca off and riding way less and FL sprinting for the mountain points and Equinox having the best climber I thought its better to get things done before the last mountain is there and save energy to be able to follor Moore. Result was that Equinox kind of refused to work together with our riders. Even worse, he starts to ride and at some points just quit riding and was hanging on my rider, so again the next stage with small chances was thrown away. Than the stage were I chased him, he chased me. Unlucky but hope to somehow fix that in the future.

Some time in between also thought about fighting for Mountain points with Rinderknech, but as I always missed the first 30m this was not a good idea and this also made it hard for me to create escapes with pullers. Most of the time just hung one of the guys on Bana.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by team fl » Mon May 31, 2021 9:42 am

Thanks very much for the entertaining Giro (well, it's the Afternoon, so...) and AAD for the marvelous statistics :).

In the end, Eiffel's victory was a bit a surprise. And given fantasticos' effort, who overdid it sometimes in my opinion, it was kind of a "poacher goal", but well, it's Tim Eiffel and I hope Big Donkey learned his lesson from these kind of riders. Reminds me of Pirhashemi a lot...

For my team, the Giro ended with mixed feelings. During almost 15 years playing this game it was the first Giro without a stage win. Even in my first edition, I managed to get one, somehow. But then again, Bana Hassana won the mountain classement. Something Team FL doesn't win very often or gives a shit about. This time it did and it paid off, mainly due to the lack of competition I guess, although the two most succesful climbers in the group, De Wit from Gipfelstuermer and Skeljvik from fantasticos, came close.

For the ciclamino, Snel gave everything and was rewarded too, like Bana for the azzurra, also with De Wit as his main opponent. Speaking of Snel: 7 stage wins for CircleCycle makes him the most successful stage hunter during this years afternoon Giro. And this team didn't consider it beneath him to do great work in Gruppetto too, which was great all over the whole three weeks.

Most aggressive team should be Equinox I guess, although his group behaviour was a bit weird sometimes, esp. in the first week. But once he started to ride reasonably for his chances, he also got his stage win with Moore. Could have been mo(o)re though... ;).

Finally, GW to all winners and more luck for all others the next time. Maybe we see each other again at the Tour de France, but I don't know yet if Team FL will participate in the After Giro France Criterium 2021... Until then, have fun, look cool. :)
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 31, 2021 7:34 pm

team fl wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 9:42 am
In the end, Eiffel's victory was a bit a surprise. And given fantasticos' effort, who overdid it sometimes in my opinion, it was kind of a "poacher goal", but well, it's Tim Eiffel and I hope Big Donkey learned his lesson from these kind of riders. Reminds me of Pirhashemi a lot...
Pirhashemi... While the skills are very similar, IMO his TdF win was completely different. HE was the favorite, you were busy controlling, defending, fighting. Which probably wasn't all THAT interesting either, I hope to get that experience at the TdF actually.
Eiffel? Basically I was sitting in a cell for 21 days waiting for the executioner. Nothing to do most of the time. And on the 21st day then the executioner got the wrong guy. Meaning, you at least had a sense of achievement, you did something, I really did very little. I was there. My biggest contribution to my win maybe was not chasing Gipfel the 2 times he brought his climbers group through and thus I lost less in bonfications.. Or ok, the Strade Bianche maybe. One of the few days I was let out of my cell at the same time as the other inmates, so could play with them...
Have to admit not what I expected with Eiffel, 21 days of controlling, which can be rather unexciting too? Yes. 21 days of doubting, worrying? Yes. But 21 days of waiting and having nothing to do really... No! Almost feel a bit verarscht winning this Giro in the end.... not sure why, too used to not winning I guess.

But as I said, hope to get more of a Pirhashemi experience at the Tour. Even if I'm seriously thinking about a clearly weaker team. Apicella there, yes, gave up on the plan of letting him home. But then maybe only one classic, Espariat and not Coderch even, and only one 60-80 (well only 1 too this time, but Moretti has the spirit of one, unlike Trewlove who thinks as a 50-85...) And 2 sprinters instead. Or 3. Or something. Of course then I risk another experience, the one not being able to control anything at all with 5 guys that are rather unsuited to riding tempo, but that sounds almost like more fun that what we had here. Frustration is excitement too. Then Schwackhöfer or Draupnisson wins the Tour.... hm, ok, maybe 2 sprinters enough, we'll see. And maybe Coderch... we'll see. Don't really remember all the details of that criterium either.
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Re: The real Giro 21: Afternoon

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:59 pm

Giro was a lot of fun in this group, really enjoyed it, like it's usually the case in the afternoon. No toxic conversations or insults, just good racing! And a good fight for rosa and ciclamino in particular, even if DeWit wasn't able to win one of it. Which is OK as he wasn't favo, either. 7 days in rosa and 3 stage wins is much more than expected from him. Another stage by Brandt and the maglia bianca for Ballabeni were also nice.

Sometimes we had a lot of offline/app-teams but that's just life so it is absolutely OK. Better join and miss a few stages than not join. It made escaping more difficult (favos online, others offline) but then again most escapes actually were given a fair chance and struggled more with collaboration than with the peloton chasing.

Congrats to Eiffel, Snel and Hassana again!

In honor of this nice afternoon Giro, the team decided to scout talent in Senegal and was successful :) See you next time even if I will continue to sometimes race evening (can't always be the afternoon).
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