Tirreno 14h - The one and only

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CircleCycle
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Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by CircleCycle » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:45 pm

Racethread!
8 teams with very interesting lineups participating, very good numbers for the afternoon (last year PN 15h with 6 teams).

CC lineup:
Sindarov-Draupnisson-Balam-Lim-Snel-Koskov-Lylloff-O'Riordan-Frazer

Goal is and was to try to get some MS and if Snel is dropped to fight for the win with Balam. Koskov hopefully gonna win the TT if I manage to keep him nearly in reg the day before, Sindarov and Draupnisson may get a chance for a stagewin too, while in gc they won't play a huge role with a low TT skill as of 48/47.

I leave favocheck for someone else.
Last edited by CircleCycle on Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Weezel
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Re: Tirreno 14h

Post by Weezel » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:46 pm

T-Mobile-A also there.
With Ockers/Hofbauer/L. Tivalainen/Pernsteiner/Ritzinger/Eckerstorfer/Steininger/T. Tivalainen/Celestino

The goal is to get at least a palmares-entry. Don't care if it's maybe the mountain-jersey or a daily win. The more, the better.
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flockmastoR
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Re: Tirreno 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:22 pm

Ich werde schon noch Abbitte leisten am Nachmittag. Redet mal lieber über Kuchen :lol: :D
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:53 pm

Nice to have a race thread even if "Tirreno 14h - The one and only" is the correct title!!

While our hero from the Tour de la Provence, Willem DE WIT, was sent to train at altitude in preparation of the Giro d'Italia, we have a nice line-up including the young Italian GC hope Bonifacio BALLABENI. (Rumours say, that DE WIT's training camp is also much cheaper than his attendance at Tirreno would be.)

In addition, Bartholomäus BRANDT is hunting for classic-type stage wins, Bastien BOULANGER is hunting for hill sprint stage wins and Dries VAN DER VEEN is hunting for mass sprint stage wins.

x1 Image Bartholomäus BRANDT (74-78-75-50-57 / 31-yo)
x2 Image Bonifacio BALLABENI (72-55-73-58-49 / 21-yo)
x3 Image Joost ZEVENBERGEN (71-78-79-48-53 / 28-yo)
x4 Image Bastien BOULANGER (68-65-70-50-76 / 34-yo)
x5 Image Gaspard GAGNEUX (57-72-71-50-54 / 22-yo)
x6 Image Paul POUDRIER (55-79-50-54-44 / 24-yo)
x7 Image Vojtech VARGA (53-75-54-51-51 / 26-yo)
x8 Image Dries VAN DER VEEN (50-62-56-52-87 / 30-yo)
x9 Image Vic VANDENBROUCKE (46-87-53-46-64 / 34-yo)

Review of the stages so far:

Stage 1: CC, Big Donkey and I controlled for a mass sprint. Boudewijn Snel the strongest guy out of perfectly executed 74-80-89 train from Circle Cycle. Our 64-76-87 train was not brave enough to go early with a number of high skilled followers such as Felix Schnell from Team-Mojabahs. Hence, VAN DER VEEN only became 3rd behind Snel and Diabang.

Stage 2: Again little action except for Hofbauer from T-Mobile-A collecting mountain points. Everybody was afraid of being chased by the two seemingly dominant teams Big Donkey and CC. Our team took the same approach as Deceuninck Quick Step in real life: We sent someone (Gaspard GAGNEUX for Gip / Joao Almeida for Deceuninck) into the hopeless escape (the one with Hofbauer) but had somebody else (Bartholomäus BRANDT for Gip / Julian Alaphilippe for Deceuninck) speculating for a win out of peloton on the climb to Chiusdino. BRANDT was able to follow Jarngrimur Draupnisson's attack at the flamme rouge and sprinted past Roger Noels (Schartner Bombe), who had attacked to at 3 km to go, to take the first World Tour race win for Gipfelstuermer this season!! As a small surprise, Eiffel and Sindarov were not seen at the front, but probably just saving energy for the days to come. This is a nice success after we had missed out at Omloop, at Strade Bianche and at yesterday's stage. Hopefully more race wins at World Tour level to come!

Statistics for Tirreno:

Stage Wins by Riders:
1 - Boudewijn SNEL (Circle Cycle)
1 - Bartholomäus BRANDT (Gipfelstuermer)

Stage Wins by Teams:
1 - Circle Cycle
1 - Gipfelstuermer

Days in the maglia azzurra, hunting for the Tridente de Neptuno:
1 - Boudewijn SNEL (Circle Cycle)
1 - Bartholomäus BRANDT (Gipfelstuermer)

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Weezel
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Re: Tirreno 14h

Post by Weezel » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:46 pm

Yesterday I hoped for a hill-sprint in the end, as the +4 is perfect for a Ockers/Tivalainen/Celestino train. But Draupnisson attacked, took two guys with him and they reached Roger Noels who had a gap of five seconds before the last km. In the peloton Felix Schnell was a little bit stronger than Celestino, it was very close.

After yesterdays next attack for Hofbauers mountain-jersey, it's more likely, that we relax today. Only one cat 3-intermediate, we probably won't kill the next puller for this.
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Berliner Bären RC » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:05 pm

The Berliner Bären are also loose again.
The goal is to reach the finish with an escape group.
Check 3rd stage, even if on the ragged edge and without any chance to sprint at all.

What will be in it for Carlo Sweeck is questionable, he should actually only collect racing kilometres for the Giro, but the way the field looks there might be chances for the top 3.
Tomorrow we will know more.

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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:54 am

Stage 3: Hill Sprint was expected given that TMA and Seven did not bring their Sprinters at all. Escape only by BB RC, so clearly some others expecting the hill Sprint, too. However, Diabang ended up in the group with the normal sprinters and Schartner was not prepared to ride for a hill sprint. So Moja and TMA vs. CC and me. They gave up quickly although seemed they could have a good chance with a 1min advantage after the hill.

Then the expected Murray/Tivalainen attack in the last 10km. Why didn't we follow? Expected some Big Donkey GC control here and thus a mass sprint. But didn't happen. Lanz only on last km in tempo (even Lorient always blocks last km...) and so a great Tivalainen win for TMA! What a monster this Tivalainen!! Still, Brandt defended the maglia azzurra! Yes! Tomorrow Prati di Tivo with Big Donkey as big favorite.

Statistics for Tirreno:

Stage Wins by Riders:
1 - Boudewijn SNEL (Circle Cycle)
1 - Bartholomäus BRANDT (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Leevi Tivalainen (T-Mobile-A)

Stage Wins by Teams:
1 - Circle Cycle
1 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - T-Mobile-A

Days in the maglia azzurra, hunting for the Tridente de Neptuno:
2 - Bartholomäus BRANDT (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Boudewijn SNEL (Circle Cycle)
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Weezel » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:46 am

Great win by Tivalainen. I wanted to attack on the +2 four kilometers before the finish, but of course Leevi was hanged - and it was right. In the end, Schartner didn't stop, we came through and Leevi showed his sprint-qualities. With this win the pressure for the team is gone, we will try to have more fun in the next days.
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:57 pm

Stage 4: The stage for the Big Donkey team. Basically all waiting for Prato di Tivo and too easy to control 147km with a team like his. Can't be forgotten that salary is roughly 100k above everyone else and so with 2 classics and 2 climbers... good control, good stage win for Eiffel.

Stage 5: The Chiusdino stage. I designed the +9 / +7 climb maybe even too easy.... but short steep climbs always tricky in RSF... Anyway, I helped control, mainly by chasing that TMA attack down. Found it weird to see him attack with Celestino and Tivalainen in the back plus Hofbauer in red jersey and Ockers in topform. Even after that no work from TMA, mainly Donkey, me and little bit CC chasing the BB RC and TSD attack. I was prepared to ride for Ockers & Brandt or even for Celestino & Boulanger, but so changed plan and I made the race fast as I was afraid of the TMA guys (mainly Ockers in topform looked dangerous). Therefore, good from CC to remind me to ride with Brandt after the last sieb, but then my hope for a Draupnisson attack with Brandt never happened. In the end sprint vs. Eiffel, Sindarov and a fit Harris. Eiffel goes from 150m, making it a Harris win. Maybe my mistake to hope for a Draupnisson attack. If I follow Eiffel instead, can be a better situation for the sprint.... So while Donkey was a friendly GC favo on stage 1 & 2, he showed his merciless side on stages 3, 4 and 5. Donkey is usually more friendly than other big favos (like Lorient in the evening), but stages 3 & 5 were big disappointments for teams who helped to control in peloton in the hope for stage wins. For the future, our team certainly will need to ride more aggresively. We have our stage win thanks to Brandt on stage 2, but stages 3 and 5, we would have been better off attacking and riding hard.

What do we have left? Stage 6 looks like a sprint, but can be a hill sprint or escape win, too. Stage 7 the TT.

Statistics for Tirreno:

Stage Wins by Riders:
1 - Boudewijn Snel (Circle Cycle)
1 - Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Leevi Tivalainen (T-Mobile-A)
1 - Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
1 - Damian Harris (Team Seven Down)

Stage Wins by Teams:
1 - Circle Cycle
1 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - T-Mobile-A
1 - Big Donkey
1 - Team Seven Down

Days in the maglia azzurra, hunting for the Tridente de Neptuno:
2 - Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 - Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Boudewijn Snel (Circle Cycle)
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:53 pm

Stage 6: Excellent control from CC from km1 to the finish. As the main favorite for the sprint, he did not let the other sprinters (Moja and me) go into larger, relevant escapes. Later, surprisingly, the hill sprinters did not even sieb (Stage 3 they siebed but stopped riding quickly), so no problem for CC there. Then the late attacks... Vilner and Brandt got away, but only with 1'', so hopeless for them as CC and Big Donkey controlled together very nicely. In the final sprint, our two man sprint train Boulanger-VanDerVeen (76-87) was strong, but not strong enough to beat the CC train (74-80-89). Snel was "schneller" than Schnell and secured his deserved second stage win. VanDerVeen second. Schnell third.

Tomorrow the ITT, where CC can get his third stage win. No major changes to be expected in GC, so most likely a deserved GC win for Tim Eiffel, whose team Big Donkey controlled at the right moments of the 6 stages to never let any doubt about Eiffel's GC win.

Statistics for Tirreno:

Stage Wins by Riders:
2 - Boudewijn Snel (Circle Cycle)
1 - Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Leevi Tivalainen (T-Mobile-A)
1 - Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
1 - Damian Harris (Team Seven Down)

Stage Wins by Teams:
2 - Circle Cycle
1 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - T-Mobile-A
1 - Big Donkey
1 - Team Seven Down

Days in the maglia azzurra, hunting for the Tridente de Neptuno:
3 - Tim Eiffel (Big Donkey)
2 - Bartholomäus Brandt (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Boudewijn Snel (Circle Cycle)
GIP MASTERPLAN
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:28 pm

There wasn't much to say here and still isn't. To put it nicely, a highly unexciting race. Predictable GC outcome. Unless I fuck it up completely, it's Eiffel. Already bored with himl, if that will be the same at the next tour... I'll be fast asleep by the time we start the Giro. Or have sold that guy. So very few attacks. Probably also due to the fact that many teams had more than one option on most days, sprint, late attack, follow the late attack. So little happening, close to nothing. Mountain jersey only one interested as well, for the rest everybody seemed ready to submit to the controlling teams. In 6 days nothing noteworthy happening really, doubt something will today.

So good that we have the "punish teams that ride controversy".

Stage 2-3-5, bad Donkey sold out the teams that rode with him! Oh, no, not 2, forgot, even if that day CC rode with Donkey, and by not following Draupnisson with Eiffel, the Donkey took away most chances from CC and gave Brandt an easy win, without his team having ridden before. No idea why this example of selling out the allies didn't make it into the list..... A real mystery!

Ok, then stage 3: Stage 1 I rode early, and helped chase the escape attempt at the end. Sprinters happy. Stage 3 I withheld my help after the late attack until the last km. For 2 very simple reasons:
1) During stage 1 I had realized that one of the 2 sprinter teams was rather weak in the flat. So pretty much useless in the end. Hadn't seen that before stage 1. But so for stage 3 to me seemed logic to ride it the following way: I keep not only Lanz but also Swift (86) fit. And those 2 can later help for the sprint. In exchange the sprinters help later. (logically would be Gipfel, but in the end they can decide that between themselves, Gipfel or CC, both ok, ) So we swap some riders almost, they get Swift-Lanz in the end, I get x early. Easiest most effective way, we all benefit. Didn't completely spell out that plan/expectation, but with clearly saying that Swift would be fit, at least it was a hint. Result: First 113 km, until the last possible sieb I ride alone. Which wasn't a problem, there wasn't any attack that looked to go through at any point, was easily controllable. Attack went late too I think, not going to check when, but around 50? But still, so I control more than the first half alone and then in addition assure that there's a sprint in the end? Seems much. The expected help didn't come early, so..... and yes, scared of siebs? But a) normally you can assume I help to come back in the back. Yes, I have Löffel in front (and Gipfel and CC normally have their hill sprinters there) but I want my team as well reprented as possible in the front. More bodies to throw at the unlikely mass attack with classics from the front group. Was pretty clear that my main and only real goal here was the GC, so far that I prefer 8 or 9 riders in front to just 5-7. Plus of course if they help me with controlling early, I help them for the sprint, both late or in the chase, as they like. Early help wasn't forthcoming as I said.
2) The sieb, Stakhanov 2 or 3"behind the last CC. I say wait, not waiting, I ride, still not waiting, after 2 or 3 km I go out. By then was around 20" behind and didn't think made sense for CC to wait anymore. Seems he realized me riding in the back that km and wanted to wait then, unlucky. Well, saw it to late, can happen. But that was the second strike.

Only one of the 2 issues, I ride in the end for a sprint. But first they leave me alone, then they don't wait for my rider? And then expect me to help save their asses in the end? No, that's one too many.

As for stage 5, I sprinted from 150, from the new design, put it in before the sprint, with no "sprint now" available didn't change anything, with all the clicks involved to see the new situation and all... plus last time I tried to change stuff I was always too late... no idea what I would have done on flash, but on this I just put in sprint 150, and stuck with it, regardless of my position in the sprint. Seemed to me that would be either me or Harris anyway in retrospect. Even if CC brought up a good point yesterday, going at 100 I might have been blocked with the ones in front of me going too...which would make 150 the better decision in retrospect again... (but didn't think of that at all)

So the charge that I punished or whatever the teams that rode with me.. .whatever, no, that's BS, on one stage the actions of the ones that rode with me made it clear that they didn't want my help, since they didn't ride early when it would make sense in exchange for me helping later, and didn't wait for a rider. Yes, all was so easy controllable GC wise that it didn't really matter much, but still. Don't want to give the impression that the GC team Donkey will fix it anyway... do your part! Then ok.

2 other things, more principle than specific here: How much is the GC favorite, or even just a team that has the leadership jersey and wants to keep it ride? For me here I rather rode too much than too little actually. But ok, GC situation so clear that it's a bit different anyway, so little going on that it still wasn't too much. But the way I like to deal with it as a GC team would be riding a bit less. But until the end of the tour. So for example yesterday, even if the group that went had nobody that was a GC danger, normally I would still do my controlling part. Yesterday then a guy at only 4' or 5' went, so had to anyway, but otherwise I'd have ridden too again. The usual amount, more or less the same than early in the tour when everybody is dangerous. But ok, if more is expected early in tours, then normally I would then stop riding towards the end, when there is no danger... can do that too, I'm flexible. Even if my personal prefernce would be to give my help, limited, on every stage, regardless of GC danger. All of course depending on the general race set up, what riders in the race, strength of attacks etc too a bit.

Second thing is: Should the GC team really block in the end for a sprint, even if they in the end don't profit directly from it? I mean, who cares if Löffel is third (as he would have been on stage 3 with my help) or 9th (or what he was in the end)? Is it really the GC teams job to interfere in the fight for the stage in this high degree at the end when there's no direct influence at all to his GC there anymore? I'm not so sure... Easiest of course is to have a sprinter that can win, then no question, but in a group like this? Unless there's a deal like the one I would have liked with Gipfel (or CC instead of Gipfel), he does part of my job early, I do part of his job late, I don't really think it actually is, would be fairer to let the sprinters, attackers fight it out between themselves that late. I help keeping the escape reachable, that's the GC team's job IMO. Not what I did on 2 days here, ride for sprinters at the end too. If there's a complaint about my riding in this tour it would more be that then "treason of CC and Gipfel"...
And of course Gipfel trying to go in the attack on the last flat stage makes a mockery of his complaint about treason, ruthlessness and punishment anyway... You think you have little chance vs Snel? Then let him ride more, but with 87 you do have chances. Never worked out this tour, came close on the last stage, but if you don't get the 83 on your wheel twice... can work. In these situations maybe I would let him work more, maybe go on work strike, but from there to attacking? Overreaction. You think I'm not trustworthy enough? Well, see above, just do your part early instead of late, in cases you don't have the flat power like in this tour. As I've said countless times by now, I'm more than ready to let you command Swift and Lanz in the last kilometers, if you do part of the early work...

Anyway, thanks to the controversy at least I had something to write about, otherwise really nothing. By now tT over as well, forgot to send the post, after writing it.... Eiffel-Sindarov-Apicella final GC, unfair action by CC to steal the deserved second place from Apicella. NOW I'm on the warpath.

Anyway, since it's official, finally now Eiffel ticks of the first item on his menu. After failing in the Andes (cancelled, but wasn't ready anyway) December tour (critics were right, he shouldn't have been leader) January tour (gave that a pass since the fantasy GC holy grail wasn't possible anymore anyway). So now we're in the TA-Catalunya-PV-Romandie-Giro-TdS/Dauphiné-TdF stretch of his goals... Perfect record for now! After one race, but since we can't ride Catalunya that will be over in 2 weeks... sniff. But well, if all tours turn out to be that boring, a good thing, want feel compelled to ride all those small tours anymore after not winning Catalunya!
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Re: Tirreno 14h - The one and only

Post by Berliner Bären RC » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:27 pm

Thanks to all for the nice tour.
It was a pity that the Berliner Bären were often alone in the escape groups. With max. 2 teams, the escape group chances were always very limited.

And these strange cooperations of sprint and GC teams (I'm still looking for the reality reference) are also poison for escape groups.

Why do GC teams block for the sprint teams in the last kilometres?
And why do sprint teams lead for GC teams on flat mountain stages?
To forge coalitions which, if they exist at all, are not so obvious in reality.

Kindly Greetings

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