Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

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luques
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by luques » Thu May 16, 2019 7:44 pm

It's not a real Giro if there isn't Luques!

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by team fl » Thu May 16, 2019 7:55 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:24 pm
Pff! And then he wins today? Scandalous.
The italian Champion showed how it is done. Hugo Marxer still hasn't figuered it out yet, how it worked...
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by team fl » Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 am

First week done. Time for a little review of the situation after 9 stages:

As expected, Tore Bergstrom is leading the GC after two ITTs where he showed all his experience being 37 years old. His team, CircleCycle, will still most likely not ride for him in GC but rather for his other strong and old team mate, Houssem Matoussi, who is third right behing YoungGwon Son from Big Donkey. In the top 10, concluded by Samuel Samba from berryberry, everthing is among three and a half minutes, and the first real mountain stages are still to come.

So the first week was not so much about the GC fights but rather than the fights for stage wins, esp. in the stages where Feiting Siebing rode hard for Wauthier. One of the victims of this riding style was Team FL, that clearly could have been more vigilant in these situations *caugh*HugoMarxerisgettingold*caugh*. Wauthier won two stages like this and has a comfortable lead in the points classement. Besides that, the Cereal of the Afternoon Edition seems to be CircleCycle with 4 stage wins already, almost half of the stage in the first week. One of his opponents in this category could be Falkenbier with two stage wins. Only the fourth team with at least one stage win is Team FL, with a victory of Italian champion Luca Spirito.

The rest of the classements is either still very open (mountain, team) or decided already (youth). So finally, the numbers:

General classement:

01. 00:00 Tore Bergstrom (CircleCycle)
02. 01:26 YoungGwon Son (Big Donkey)
03. 01:50 Houssem Matoussi (CircleCycle)
04. 02:00 Kim Woojine (Olimpiazzurra)
05. 02:55 Hisashi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
06. 03:01 Marius Hagen (Schappy)
07. 03:05 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
08. 03:10 Kevin Brandner (berryberry)
09. 03:12 Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
10. 03:29 Samuel Samba (berryberry)

Points classement:

01. 180 Jonas Wauthier (Feiting Siebing)
02. 124 Uladzislau Bandarenka (Falkenbier)
03. 122 Caroline Hansen (Schappy

Mountain classement:

01. 021 Leonardo Busato (Mosca)
02. 012 Stephan Wiedmer (Big Donkey)
03. 011 Tore Bergstrom (CircleCycle)

Youth classement:

01. 03:05 Caroline Hansen (Schappy)
02. 31:07 Leonardo Busato (Mosca)
03. 39:26 Miguel Macedo (Lubazim team)

Team classement:

01. 00:00 CircleCycle
02. 01:33 Big Donkey
03. 03:03 Feiting Siebing

Stage wins by riders:

2 - Tore Bergstrom (CircleCycle)
2 - Jonas Wauthier (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Uladzislau Bandarenka (Falkenbier)
1 - Maksim Karatynski (Falkenbier)
1 - Houssem Matoussi (CircleCycle)
1 - Luca Spirito (Team FL)
1 - Richard Springer (CircleCycle)

Stage wins by teams:

4 - CircleCycle
2 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
1 - Team FL
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Well, IMO Circle deserves an extraspecial mention for his whining in the first few stages. Winning 4 stages and whining that much, that's a pretty impressive feat. Hell, he probably whines more than I do when I win 0 stages. In my case either the whining or the winning will increase from now on, fear it's the whining. :cry: But can I reach the CC level? Will try.

Today and tomorrow. Whatever happens, a sigh of relief is going through the whole peloton. No way for Feiting to do the siebing and split the whole peloton! Finally we can somewhat relax, no more anti-social behaviour from those Belgians! Let's see if Springer, Spohr and Tuttobene celebrate this by drinking beer from their bidons during the race today, I fear it might backfire on them, but you never know.

GC, yeah, not much happening.... good attack by Barreau one day, With Matsuyama the elder following. Big idiocy by Matsuyama the elder the next day, So losing time... Wanted to make tempo in the last km, in too slow. Argh. Samba lost the same amount of time, he couldn't follow Matoussi. So ok, by not doing tempo Hiroshi allowed Hisashi to gain 27 extra seconds on Samba! Tactics, tactics, that's how tactical brilliance looks. Hm, I feel better already :P

TT, Hisashi and Hiroshi not with the great tactic, too much energy gone early, so in the end only minimal timewin to Peter. But ok, on paper minimal anyway, flat over 35 km would be 10.5".... Was 5" for Hisashi and even 4" lost for Hiroshi, who did start faster than Hisashi. Can be form, luck etc too, but well, looks like bad tactic to me. On the other hand Barreau even worse tactic, he lost 2" to Hiroshi. With 51 TT, the highest of our 4 climbers. Low reg so slowly.. but well, with the rest day and flat today, he could have gone below 300, even if performance wise that's not recommended (Aix once told me that under 300 (or was it 200) the performance really drops, while before that the difference is not that big) Too me looked like Barreau either has very weird form (4th May???) or simply tried to conserve energy too much. Matoussi, no idea, didn't bother doing the calculation there, he has more TT, he'll win time, whatever, for my race right now the comparison to Peter is more important. 17", well... ok. Basically nothing, so doesn't really help me with my future tactics. But still, 17" advantage is much better than same time or only 16". Every second counts. Of course helped by Peters mistake on to L'Aquila, he didn't forget to attack he was so eager he tried even one km too early, so lost 1" to Hisashi, plus 6" bonifications. Not as bad as Hiroshi, but still not ideal.

Anyway, now 2 flat days. Then the serious stuff begins, with the possibility to get rosa for Son maybe? For one day? Will think about it....
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by CircleCycle » Thu May 23, 2019 3:50 pm

After the rest day and before (during) the first interesting gc-stage, time to write something here.
With 6 Stagewins (3xSpringer, 2xTore, 1xHoussem) the Giro 2019 is already a success!

Houssem's win at stage 7 maybe the more surprising, as the two wins by "Den Gamle" Bergstrom were obviously not so difficult. The 3 wins for Springer, in the end easy, as the sprint itself hasn't been dangerous. No pressure, but holding it all together was only possible because of the help I got.
GC-wise. Tore still in the lead, but will lose the jersey today, while Houssem is in a good position, although I think overall it will be a big surprise if he can stay in front of the climbers of Feiting Siebing and Big Donkey. He lost 1 mountainpoint and 1 TT point too, but more important how many minutes (or seconds) he is going to lose in the mountainious stages.
About the TT before restday - not telling or guessing forms - I thought Houssem and Tore had good tactics, starting slow, and therefor keeping higher energy level for the part from km19 and km24. Tore won convingly, Houssem got time vs. the other climbers. Could have done better? Maybe, but would choose the same tactic again.

Starting from stage 12 its "Big Donkey-time". It will be interesting to see his tactics and the developments in the fight for gc.

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Thu May 23, 2019 5:19 pm

No no! No big Donkey time, I'm biding my time.
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 24, 2019 3:24 am

Still no stage. Finally got to try the rather hopeless Matsubara-Kolbeinsson attacks on the 2 flat stages. Unsuccessful but at least got to try.
Yesterday first GC stage, thinking about escaping, but let it be. FL goes and clear pretty soon that he'll have the stage... Matsubara then some tempo, so that FL at least has to invest energy. And helps against farmers as well possibly.
Montosso: Plan was clear. Ride with Matsuzaka. Big sieb? Son+Matsuoka ride, 10, 20 maybe later even 30" behind I have the Feiting, Schappys (assuming they are behind riding) So they block me. So ok, do nothing, let Feiting do the action. He took Bouteiller over the hill. Had browser freezes on the climb, good, probably couldn't have resisted trying a more sensible approach to that climb otherwise. After the downhill finally the attack, Matsuoka and Hiroshi M. there. But at this point? Pointless for me. With Matsuoka riding it's what, 30 seconds? And Matsuyama with 52 flat very attackable on the 5... Woijnen(?) in the group. Didn't make any sense for me to ride. Cover the 5 with Matsuoka, attack for money and stealing bonifications made more sense. And having Matsuoka fit. I have no problem killing him and Son, but not for something for dubious benefit as yesterday. At least I want potential high benefit.

3 more GC stages till the rest day. No great plans for the Donks yet. But focus from yesterday on is clearly the GC. Might go back to stage attempts later if the GC seems gone, but for the moment it isn't. But looks like a pretty blocked race, as I feared. Chasing classics block me. So make little sense for me to blow all open. At least yesterday, today might be different.
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 24, 2019 7:05 pm

Very interesting stage, in the end Vangramberen 1" in front of Hisashi... should have tried to follow, or go 1 km earlier, argh. Always 2 on Hisashi, so today he was perfectly protected, hoped to be able to follow, with just 1" back after the attack, same second in the 10... maybe it would have worked? But well, ok like this. Matoussi 8" back, no bonifications, so 18" gained for Peter, 13" for Hisashi, that's a start.

Race made hard by Feiting, he for sure didn't rely on me to make it hard :lol: First a group with Wiedmer and Romanishin, which of course didn't please Feiting, caught after a sieb, then he continued, I soon had one helper too few... so rode with CC trying to come back. Managed just before the second big climb. There then Matoussi was isolated finally, but before was impossible, Feiting going on, Sandalakis chasing, then let back before the start of the final climb. The attack by Hiroshi and Hiroshi, Ferreira, Hagen and Barreau following, wasn't sure what to do then, continue with Matsuoka, but had my doubts that Hiroshi would prove to be the strongest there... and indeed he wouldn't have, Ferreira it was. Barreau wasn't worried that much, thought he might be in reg problems soon, but with Hiroshi not having any helpers at all from the second big climb on... didn't trust him to win enough time. Probably should have tried on the 8-9 to attack with Matsuyama in the back, in front Matsuoka in tempo, Caruso in the back but not winning time, so attack on there... hope nobody follows? But seemed likely that Matoussi was on Matsuyama there I think, the attack seemed too tempting, I resisted.
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by CircleCycle » Sat May 25, 2019 2:59 pm

Very hard stage - in the end Houssem lost time to Peter and Hisashi, but won time against Woojinen, and while Lubazim took the 4" bonus for p3 the other climbers couldn't win time. I'd say not so bad. Today could be different. Houssem in great danger.....

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by CircleCycle » Sat May 25, 2019 6:37 pm

Before sharing my thoughts about this - probably decisive - stage I'll wait for the comments of Feiting and/or Donkey, after all they did all the action, while Houssem and his teammates were just spectators, trying to keep the damage in limits.

GC standing after stage 14 as follows:

01. 00:00 Hisashi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
02. 00:16 Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
03. 01:31 Houssem Matoussi (CircleCycle)
04. 02:12 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
05. 02:25 Marius Hagen (Schappy)
06. 02:28 Jose Ferreira (Lubazim team)
07. 02:57 Hiroshi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
08. 03:27 Samuel Samba (berryberry)
09. 03:31 Kim Woojine (Olimpiazzurra)

the other riders already more than 5 min back, and most likely out of the fight for maglia rosa. Former leader Tore Bergstrom lost already over 1h and is currently on position 26 with 01:05:10.
16 seconds advantage for Hisashi now, so it looks like the 3rd week of the GIRO will see a fight between the teams of Big Donkey and Feiting Siebing, while Houssem will probably focus on defending p3 and getting a chance for one or two stagewins.

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 26, 2019 4:41 am

Donks busy today. Horse race track , Derby day, races from 9:40 to 17:00, usually it's 10:00-16:20 or so. After that the usual hanseikai, reflection meeting or something like that.. Basically drinking while commiserating about not winning.

So.. not much time. Now lunch break.

After Feiting made the race hard and costly energy wise the day before I had to try to do the same. But didn't really work as I wanted. Wiedmer too weak (he rode yesterday to keep CC and Feiting riding mostly) Matsukaze ...brrr. Surprised though that Wauthier was there.. thought he would be weaker.

Basically almost gave up on it, resp. wait for later, but CC riding against my slow group behind forced me to do it anyway. My 5 in front stay,CC 1 helper left.
Matsuzaka riding. Slowly. There CC going red in the back would have come back I think.

Then thought about a double Son-Hisashi attack at the longish hill, didn't, hadn't analyzed well. Thought the weak Feiting classic was the one always with Matsuoka. Seems was the strong one. Plus if followed byFeiing... Tempo by others with classics a danger. So waited for San Carlo
Out of time... Blabla later!
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by gaurain rx » Sun May 26, 2019 10:43 am

Really briefly goal was to take a lot of time to Matoussi and also to collect some times against the donkeys.. Which partially worked as I took only 1" to Hisashi overall.. Matoussi yeah, with a certain margin but still not hopeless for GC win, which is good IMO. Could have been more efficient on pinerolo stage against Matoussi and also more aggressive with Peter on the 2nd mountain stage. Yesterday, improvisation but which worked quite well all in all.

More to comment actually, from Aquila stages and so on.. I hope the seconds lost there won't be the killing ones.

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by gaurain rx » Mon May 27, 2019 3:12 pm

Haven't seen yesterday's stage, haven't look at the replay either, didn't want to, I trusted my sitter... But giving instructions was quite tricky! I wonder if I whouldn't have told him to ride for stage also but I was scared that then other managers helps riding behind Peter, like Schappy then would have good chances stagewise. So well, 5" taken, I guess my sitter did well, main point was at least not to loose time... Still, I'm surprised my team is already almost fit today!

Anyway, 3 riders still seems more or less in gc contention : Hisashi and Peter, guess it will be one of those 2...

I feel slightly favorite now but still, can change really fast, some seconds might make the difference and the seconds lost in the first stages (Aquila mainly + some bonisecs) might be the killing ones. With Hiroshi Matsuyama also quite far gc wise, it makes the things easier! Looks like Big Donkey choosed his leader is/was Hisashi since the start or at least quite early in the race... Which was not the case in my team. Before the attack during stage 14, I was still undecided. Peter/Théophane was like a 60/40 as leader ratio... now 95/5. Matoussi not totally hopeless also but not with the best papers! Loosing TT skill doesn't help of course!

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 28, 2019 6:38 am

Stage to Courmayeur again: So waited for San Carlo, Feiting though didn't. His attack, that I hadn't covered, had thought about covering a while earlier, never got around to actually do it..... expected sieb didn't come, Feiting said that's what he wanted to do, didn't cool, much better, then attack on the 8. Matoussi not hanging, then we rode all together, Hisashi and Peter. Except Hisashi one km green when I was pissed off. Feiting not waiting properly. :evil:
Rode all together, was a mistake and I knew it already when I proposed it.... But well, easier, seems I'm old, like easy racing, not stressful actions. Rosa guaranteed for Hisashi. Chance for stage, more sprint, less mountain, on a +3 thought was pretty equal. So ok.
Matoussi: Not much he could do. Follow? Then either waiting for the peloton again, more attacks in the San Carlo, or go, but with attacks in the San Carlo. There's no right and wrong decision for Matoussi in those cases, he was going to be under attack a lot on this day. Possibly would have worked out better following. Peter goes again red in San Carlo, both Matoussi and Hisashi can't follow, then he gets help from Hisashi. But if both follow it's almost the same again, just loses less time, is still unfit for the Lombardia copy, and probably more under attack there.

For me: Collaborating makes me the only real opponent, Matoussi there but even if he wins by 5" and Peter manages not to win any bonifications on the 3 mountain top arrivals coming, that's only 45" back... 30" in the TT? Normally less.... Matoussi can be controlled, not ignored but controlled.
So Hisashi the only opponent, full concentration on him, 16"... very hard to defend. 87 vs 86.... makes a difference. Helper mine better 86 with reg vs 86 without reg, well after the training became 87 without reg. Behind that, my classics stronger, for one day. No reg, Gaurain has one with. And 60-80 right now mine are being dominated on a daily basis by Feiting, With 3 mountain top arrivals, Lombardia and Mortirolo coming, If he drops me on mountain arrivals even by 1" every time.... normally that's plus bonifications, expected to lose my advantage at the latest on Wednesday, possibly today. And that's how it will be. TT I win 5" or so..... but even with same form and tactic that's possibly 0" Or 10" Hmm. Anyway, collaborating was basically stupid. But well, as I said, knew I shouldn't, but went the easy way, rosa and stage, deal with it later.

Lombardia then was bad again, miscalculated, resp. didn't think at all. Barreau and Matoussi under reg, get some time on them with Hiroshi, try to defend vs Peter. Brrr.... as usual missed helpers for Hiroshi, at least was clever enough not to go for the Hiroshi-Son attack from far I was thinking of.... Final climb dropped, got help by Matoussi (understandeable) and Schappy attacks in the end, so lost less than I would have otherwise.... And the miscalculation was the loading, didn't even think about them reloading there guys that far. 820-920 for Matoussi, bah. Escape can go was clear. They pissed me off though by going to 30'. What's the point? 25' was enough, it was obvious I wasn't going to ride, even if I didn't say so, since I never rode a meter until I did 2-3 safety anti autotempo km...... So already hoped to put Springer and co in autotempo as revenge, but CC rode enough with Palladino to avoid that, grrr :evil:

HIroshi: No, Hisashi wasn't the clear leader. But each time I didn't have enough riders, he became it. Because he's simply better, flat and downhill, this Hiroshi no flat at all, even with 2 helpers and high tempo he probably loses more than Peter with 1....So far back... L'Aquila forgot the attack or tempo, forgot which one, He lost time here and there stupidly.... so one more reason for more Hisashi. Courmayeur too, there Hisashi gets both helpers, Hiroshi 0. Fought like crazy on San Carlo, thought might drop even in the last 1-2 kms. Didn't, but on top he was at 100 or so energy less than Hisashi in front, so the option to attack with him, while doing nothing with Hisashi was basically gone already, made the cooperation in front easier (but it's still a mistake, to win the Giro I needed not to ride in front there, I might be closer in the end the way I did it, but the chances to win it all are rather minimal)

So for me Feiting the clear favorite now.... I need to first do my helping stuff better, manage to at least keep 2 of Matsukaze, Matsuzaka and Wiedmer in front when Feiting has all his guys there... Wauthier, Zingle, Philemon, Bouteiller (ok, he usually misses one too) Then see if there's something I can do....
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by CircleCycle » Tue May 28, 2019 12:49 pm

Stage 14+15: The whole team of course quite unfit from the hard race before and the expected early sieb made already big problems. After the second sieb I decided to ride against the Wiedmer group, hard to say if it was a good idea, or a rather bad one. 1helper for Houssem, otherwise 2, but more helpers for all the Donkeys seemed too dangerous. Next sieb will come for sure, then they are anyway gone, better try with 1 helper and hope for the best. Slow chase with Romanishin and Olsen was good, after all, coming back possible with red tempo? Maybe, but not easy, while with green tempo I could keep them over 500, not the worst idea (--> stage 15).
Then (finally) the attack at km71. Good one! I can't remember, but Tore was maybe following one of the other feitings. I am sure that a sieb afterwards would have been quite good, but even better seemed to me what happened in the race. So how much advantage for Frognet&Boutellier? 1,5 minute? I forgot. By then already for long time decided not to follow Peter/Hisashi or anybody else before San Carlo. If there is the attack at km90, well played. Peter and Hisashi, but nobody else trying to follow. A little relief for Houssem, maybe the other teams were relying on Houssem to follow?
Tore "chased", 1min at the foot of the climb to San Carlo. Tore also riding the 7, maybe that was a little mistake losing another 30", then the steep kms with Houssem, trying to get rid of the other climbers, or at least make them fight. Got rid of Samba, Hansen, Fahrer, Soares at the first chance, dropped Woojine at km 100 and finished the climb with 1min gap to Peter/Hisashi. So far so good. Then asking for cooperation which was denied, so trying to find a balance between losing time, covering the other possible attacks and keeping Houssem as fit as possible for the next day. Samba came back, counterattacked, later also Ferreira attacked. Very good. They are not too dangerous for Houssem. In the end 2'13" without Boni and Houssem finishing with 430. Could have been worse. Not following IMO the right decision. Like this I could keep control about everything, with following, then maybe another attack at San Carlo, seemed like not only a guaranteed loss of time against Donkey/Feiting but also to the other climbers, if not at this stage, then certainly the next day.

Stage 15 the expected early group with Romanishin+Olsen and Paulo Marinheiro. Romanishin bringing Paulo in the group, since he didn't follow the right riders at km1, then riding until km18 before going back to the peloton - simply needed one more helper there and anyway there were 3 pullers in the group. Loading Houssem, Tore and Rivera, managed to get Houssem back to 920, while the group got an advantage of more than 30minutes. Then nervous, autotempo clearly not wanted, somehow managed to avoid it until last 2kms. In the front, Falkenbier going for the red jersey, while Spirito and Paulo were waiting for the fight for the stagewin.
Unfortunately Team FL had connection problems and decided not to interfer(very fair, as of course expected), so easywin for Paulo after Olsen brought him to the last climb. Meanwhile some action in the peloton, Houssem with 2 helpers could not fully load, but was reasonable strong enough. Again not following anybody, maybe could have tried to hang on Peter? Only later I thought about attacking myself at km 222, maybe possible, on the other hand.... with Peter in front, Donkey will ride, Schappy going to attack, so following Hagen, waiting, not losing time except to Peter. Okay, all in all.

Training! Tore keeping TT, if I can keep him in reg that should be another stagewin for the old Swede. Houssem keeping mountain(yes!), losing TT, Barreau now also 87, which should give Feiting the best cards for gc. Houssem still there, but rather in the defensive mood, maybe clinching one more stagewin? Only 5 more stages + the final TT, 11" advantage for Hisashi, seems like it won't be enough, but you'll never know. Looking forward to the remainig stages, the tactics, the actions and the fight for gc :)
p.s.: I quite like that Feiting was really thinking about going for Barreau, which I brought up very early as an option as well.

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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 29, 2019 4:12 pm

Mortirolo, tried to bring Matsuyama Hiroshi back into the race, failed...
Plan was clear from the start, let Feiting work, I wasn't really interested with having a group ahead that could go over the Gavia, attack with Matsubara and Wiedmer was mostly so that Feiting chases, and if we're caught ok, if not ok too, Wiedmer in front, why not. Then x other attempts, blocked by Donks, the one with Matsuzaka and Bouteiller then could go. Maybe Wiedmer Zingle better for me? Not really, one helper less for me in that one, for the climbers in the back, so like this was ok.

Gavia, plan was clear, sieb, ride with Son (first had Matsuoka in, mistake, changed) then at some point attack with Son and Hiroshi Matsuyama. Hoping to get the right wheel with Hisashi for the following. In the end nobody followed, so used a lot of brain cells for nothing. Should have spent them to decide what to do next. If nobody follows, or I don't get the right wheel. Do I attack with Hisashi himself?`Just thought about it a bit and came to the conclusion, we'll see then.
+ for attacking: Safer for GC most likely. Hiroshi in front, Hisashi in the back, if Peter goes and he can't follow he risks losing lots of time all at once.
- harder chase, not sure to even get over the Gavia then.

After the attack, situation was: the group behind, with the other classics, hadn't reached the peloton yet. Way seemed free to attack. I didn't, but should have. One problem 30" tact, letting Matsuzaka drop immediately, including the right leader (should have done it before, but...), Hiroshi out of tempo, then at the same time thinking about the attack.... thought about it very fast, decided no. Should have gone for it. After all didn't feel the chase behind was that much slower really... probably with Hisashi I have a bit less advantage (but he should have caught up, or almost to Son without or without much waiting) , and Bouteiller drops faster. But if I manage to go over the Mortirolo with him, good, excellent. But not sure, Peter the whole mountain and I'm caught. But that means Barreau over reg, from fighting alone:) Even if I get over it, not much further.. and actually in the end I probably would have lost more time than I finally did, attack on the 6 and Peter then being fresher, probably riding more with Barreau... or not at all and letting everybody back. Still, should have gone with both. Was a bit lucky with Hisashi in the back finally. Could have gone differently. Anyway, good job by Matsuzaka and Son riding, Hiroshi then did a good job getting over the Mortirolo, then waiting for Hisashi, guiding him down the mountain. Even if the hyperrealistic +2 on top of the MOrtirolo hurt him.... grr.

Finally Hiroshi not back in GC, Hisashi loses yellow, the GC attack was half hearted, still, not unhappy with that performance, tried, half hearted, but tried. Matoussi won 20" back to Peter, IMO still not a big GC danger for Peter, but can't be completely ignored either. But well, right now Feiting can "verwalten", doesn't need to do big defensive or offensive actions... so even if Hisashi is one small mistake away, and Matoussi a bigger one... he's in control.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
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Robyklebt
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:04 am

Not much happening on stage 17-19.
Was a bit surprised that Feiting was that passive, really just managing the advantage, 16" it was? Thought he would put in a bit more. Maybe with bonifications? Or especially towards San Martino di Castrozza where the climb was very anti-Donkeys with an earlier attack? But seems he felt (rightly too) that that was enough already, no need to have 30" or more, just a bit here and there. 2" to Anterselva, 1" in an intermediate on the flat stage, 2" again San Martino. For me good. Because I think I could have lost much more on these 2 days, if I had still had rosa at this point, pretty sure I would have lost more time here. Just with bonifications too, Maybe Feiting didn't want to risk Matoussi gaining more time, in that case now I feel insulted, Matsuyama isn't a danger but this Matoussi is? Doubt it though, probably simply no need. Let CC work for his stage win, and towards San Martino where Feiting could have siebed away the CC helpers, let the cool berryberry action win it. Both Matsuyama and Matoussi are under control, just ride defensively, take those seconds here and there without effort.

20: Of course I had to try a last time, didn't work. Some pre battles to bring enough helpers for my climbers over the first climb, then ride with Matsuoka after a Hiroshi Matsuyama sieb, isolate Vangramberen and Barreau on the Manghen. Worked, Finally could use Matsuoka and Son.. (result, both at 0 energy...) Up to 3 minutes, then once Matsuoka started to really tire went down fast... Effect I think very small there, 2 helpers for Hisashi, I suppose 1 for Vangramberen, doubt I really gained much, the first helper is the one that gives the most energy anyway, and then with all the downhill Vangramberen with his superior downhill skill. Thought probably same energy or +10 for me... stuff like that. So attack. Passo Rolle, Matsuoka loses too much, if I ride most with him caught or almost before the top. During the first part or in the little flat part I thought, ok, can't attack too early, otherwise if by any chance Barreau is not there, I get caught. So, 131 or 132 (top on 133) What did the idiot manager do? Forgot it immediately, and did the Son Hisashi attack on km 129... Caught at 132 I think. Just stupid. Especially because the attack worked. Vangramberen on Hisashi, Hiroshi on Vangramberen, Barreau not following. Risky by FEiting, but he probably knew I would fuck it up by going too early. Or more likely, planned to go in with Barreau towards the top, from when the attack could be a danger. Anyway, if I somehow managed to get away with 3, Son and the Matsuyamas and Peter alone, then I would have really gotten a chance 0 helpers vs 1, didn't work, Barreau came back easy, there I could have stopped tempo, GC fight was over.

But thought now I try the stupid mountain jersey. And for that continuing is better, I wait, Larinto and Ayala go, there I was actually riding against Ayala :lol: Ride, in the hill try the attack, try again a bit later, a) Hagen following pissed me off, how dare a 85 manage to follow a 86 when my 86 stubbornly refuses to follow that 87 Vangramberen??? Has to do with flat and loading b) to get maximum points at the cat 2. Then wait for Hiroshi again.... ride, Last hill, attack again, here mostly not to ride alone, thought by attacking at least they use some energy too, needed 2nd place at the finish for blue.. 2 km from the end Vangramberen joins tempo, Hagen attacks last km, Hisashi can't follow, but doesn't get away, Vangramberen to strong.

Sprint... and a conspiracy to let me win??? First Hagen decides not to follow the wheel he has, Vangramberen. But the guy behind him, Hisashi. Once I finally realized that, the small gap opening up, I took Peter's wheel. Weird, why didn't he just try to get that win, he had the much better position than I had. Next, my great plan, go at 150, missed, was already only 100. Oh well, go anyway... And Vangramberen isn't sprinting yet, just following. Hisashi again. Weird again, but ok, here somewhat understandable, Hisashi had spent half the Giro telling Vangramberen and especially his manager how much he loves Standard Liège. And how horrible he finds Anderlecht. And Feiting probably thought he'd let Schappy or Donkey a win, the 2 poor guys pretty unsuccessful so far... Peter didn't sprint the last 50 meters either, Hagen didn't manage to overtake Hisashi, stage.... Conspiracy to give the Donkey a stage. Thanks, but I would actually have preferred not winning... Happy to get the blue like this, yeah, otherwise would have lost it because of a fantasy cat 3 GPM where there should have been an IS. And don't like those not even 60 mountain skill guys winning GT mountain jerseys anyway. So yep, happy about that, but winning the stage like this? I have no problems not winning, I'm really used to it... In 2016 I won 17 races (18 with a TTT) and 2 stage races. In a whole year. So I deal well with lack of success, no need to gift me that much. Especially since I already had won a stage at the Giro, normally I get third in that stage, would have been perfectly ok. And I would even had a reason to whine, losing the mountain jersey because of that phantom cat 3! But ok, stage win. Win no 18 this year, so won't beat my minus record of 2016! :lol: Now I'm happy after all.

So now:
Vangramberen
Hisashi 14" back

Normally on a flat TT I'd win 5", here with hill and downhill.. 4"? 3"? Let's say 4". But then there's chance that plays in. So I still have a minimal chance to win it, 98% it's Vangramberen, fully deserved, I'll root for him too. But Hisashi will ride full power and hope for luck, lots of it. If I was 10" ahead right now I would be confident I win it, but still a bit worried about the luck thing... And if I had the chance to extend the leader by 6" or 4" instead of losing 6" yesterday... I would have done that. Just to eliminate the small rest chance that with the situation now there is that Hisashi is really lucky and wins it. Just need 10" luck seconds.. I give myself 2% chances of winning it. Mathematical geniuses that show me the percentage is wrong are not welcome btw.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

team fl
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Re: Giro 2019 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Post by team fl » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:53 am

Due to a very busy private schedule, I missed the review after the second week. Fortunately, a guy names Robyklebt (must be a friend of this Big Donkey) did a lot of work to compensate it and so I can just finally present the statistics for the whole Afternoon Giro, which indeed was the only real Giro this year again. So without further ado, here they are:

General classement:

01. 00:00:00 Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
02. 00:00:06 Hisashi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
03. 00:01:26 Houssem Matoussi (CircleCycle)
04. 00:04:01 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
05. 00:04:16 Hiroshi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
06. 00:07:58 Samuel Samba (berryberry)
07. 00:08:14 Marius Hagen (Schappy)
08. 00:11:40 Jose Ferreira (Lubazim team)
09. 00:13:01 Kim Woojine (Olimpiazzurra)
10. 00:13:23 Javier Ayala (Falkenbier)

Points classement:

- Jonas Wauthier (Feiting Siebing)

Mountain classement:

- Hisashi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)

Youth classement:

- Caroline Hansen (Schappy)

Team classement:

- Big Donkey

Stage wins by teams:

10 - CircleCycle
3 - Feiting Siebing
3 - Team FL
2 - Big Donkey
2 - Falkenbier
1 - berryberry
0 - Lubazim team
0 - Mosca
0 - Olimpiazzurra
0 - Schappy

Stage wins by riders:

4 - Richard Springer (CircleCycle)
3 - Tore Bergstrom (CircleCycle)
2 - Houssem Matoussi (CircleCycle)
2 - Hisashi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
2 - Luca Spirito (Team FL)
2 - Jonas Wauthier (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Uladzislau Bandarenka (Falkenbier)
1 - Maksim Karatynski (Falkenbier)
1 - Paulo Marinheiro (CircleCycle)
1 - Thibault Rossard (Team FL)
1 - Samuel Samba (berryberry)
1 - Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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