Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

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gaurain rx
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Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by gaurain rx » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:51 am

Let's start the fight here or I mean, let's do some lobbying to get an afternoon Cdla (14h looks a brillant starting time imo).

Feiting Siebing will be there with a quite young, but still talented squad. No real gc chances but still, escaping and anmations will be the main tasks of our squad.

1. Peter Vangramberen : Absolute leader, I hope he'll be 82 moutain by the start of Anden. unfortunately he'll be a bit alone when the road will rise up;
2. Logan Bouteiller : The future classic helper will be like 60-80 at the start of the race (now wondering if my plan is to build a big 60-80 from him!!!)! With his big reg, he'll be able to go often in the breaks;
3. Maxence Cordonnier : The flatguy of the team... Even if 81 is nothing tremendous;
4. Philémon Cyclone : 60-80 with no reg and no downhill, don't think he'll be really usefull. But he has to join, we'll need him considering his moutain skill.
5. Emile Gourdin : The newcomer in the team and our future flat star... He'll start the race with 51-79 as skills. Hope he manages to see the finish line:
6. Thierry Hussard : Our road captain for this race and our only classic at the start! He'll be 33 in November, I just hope he won't loose any points during the race;
9. Robin Zingle : I hope he'll start the race with 60-83... Big reg and big donwhill, he will have the same role as Bouteiller.

Last 2 spots are tricky to confirm yet. The sprinters are out of the fight, Rain and Franz are also out considering their reg, Lesinge and Sacré might join depending if I'm able or not to buy one young classic with low reg (I definitely need one) and one future allround helper.
Last edited by gaurain rx on Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

luques
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by luques » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:52 pm

Maybe here!

Much will depend on weather I guess :)

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 am

Team FL plans to ride the Afternoon Andes (the only real Andes) too, depending on several little things though. Anyway, it's pretty clear that if it works the team will have Afshin "Prince of Persia" Pirhashemi as GC leader accompagnied by the likes of Kaiser, Satour, Mrkvicka, Spirito, Rossard, Spaeth, etc. Although there would be enough riders to join the Andes already, the team management is still looking to add another climber as a support. Still more than a month to go though...
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Liquigas-CND » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:24 pm

If Jesse has time will definitely end aeschliman and pirhashemi "careers".
-GC: Giro'15,'16,18,19;TDF'16,'18,'20;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:57
-Classics:17

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by gaurain rx » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:28 pm

4 days before Anden start and the Team just landed in Venezuela on hot and Humid atmosphere : "Well, we're running late coming here but we really had troubles to set up the lineup for this race. Jules Vaneste just join the team and he will take part to Cdla which is a quite huge event for such a youngster".

The leader, Peter Vangramberen, looks confident : "I'm not yet in a top shape cause I'm just back from a altitude training camp Chile but I'm sure I will be ready for the start of the Tour. I'm just unsure if my teammates understands the importance of this event".

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:11 am

Donkey as announced here.
Past years starting as clear favorite usually, this time the team is very strong, but the leader less.
The leader? Unclear.
1 Aeschlimann: 86-51-80, 54 reg. But age a concern, 34. Possible that he weakens..
5 Hisashi Matsuyama: 82-55-72, 65 reg. 23 so young and eager to improve. Wants to be the leader for 2019, and now for the Andes too.
6 Hiroshi Matsuyama: 84-52-77, 65 reg. 25, hasn't trained in a while. Needs it.
All 3 can hope to become leader, depending on training and how the race develops. All 3 have weaknesses, so won't be an almost automatic win like with Zafzaf.
But the Donkey still thinks he's one of the favorites, the supporting cast ist strong.
Gopal-Innocenti 60-80
Pilioko-Son "half classics" with TT, hoping that Son develops into a full classic.
Tobar-Matsuoka: Superclassics. 75 mountain for both.
So the team is there, TTT not sure how will do, forgot how it is, but I'm always optimistic about those TTTs. In normal mountain stages we should be able to "Sky", just miss the superior leader. Which is good. My team with a Zipoli or Zafzaf would bore everybody to death. Like this I expect to have good chances, but need to fight for it.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:54 am

After a long internal struggle, Team FL decided to join the afternoon Andes, although the team mangement doesn't know yet, how active the team will be. Anyway, it could be great fun or just a huge money burning machine that will prevent a decent team development for even longer after the Tour de France. But then again, who cares :).

The riders going to South America will be:

x1 Afshin Pirhashemi, the Prince of Persia
x2 Wael Afifi, the Egyptian Pharao
x3 Carlos Kaiser, El Emperador
x4 Jiri Mrkvicka, still looking for more vowels
x5 Thibault Pinot ehm Rossard,
x6 DJ Khalid Satour
x7 Maik Schramm, the new guy from Germany
x8 Sandro Spaeth, better late then never
x9 Luca "the Spirit" Spirito

Goal as usual: Win everything!
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:54 pm

5 days done... time for some reporting.

Before the start I would have said:

***** nobody
**** A. Pirhashemi, A. Meier
*** C. Aeschlimann, H. Matsuyama, H. Matsuyama (which one is which, ha!)
** K. Amisten, D. da Costa, A.Filatov, P.Vangramberen
* L.Hamilton, M. Schramm.

Afshin 86 mountain, good flat, good sprint, good TT, (important for the ITT I thought, by now I figured out there is no ITT), problem the reg a bit. But a strong team, Schramm as no 2 (but dismissed him as possible leader from the start, even if he has 85 mountain too, nice other skills as well, a bit more reg even... clearly a helper, you don't let the TdF winner ride for some Schramm.) Kaiser as a very strong, REG, classic. Satour as the weakling-classic, no downhill, less reg, often more a battery than a tempo guy, but, can be called upon if needed. Then Jiri, good 60-80 with reg, 4 guys under 60 mountain, but 3 of them with over 55 reg. Strong team, can control. TTT looks good too.

Meier... 88 mountain, that's 2 more than the rest. And after almost 2 years of having the strongest climber I know how big those 2 points can be, even if the other guys have helpers. The team is weak. Rasmussen left home a ton of very useful riders... Either he knows he can't be online all the time, or he's playing the "I'm not a favorite card". After 5 days to me seems the second one. The team is weak, but not really weak, just weak compared to what it could be. But can rely on FL and Donkey controlling, can follow attacks by Donkey, or maybe later by FL... and the team is there to load Meier, Stages where he could run into trouble are few IMO. And he often has some guys ahead anyway, can be used for an attack, or as batteries for a while when caught. TTT, again, the team is weaker than it should be, but doesn't seem hopelessly weak either. But ok, I'm rather unsure about how this TTT will turn out anyway right now, especially mountain influence. But he will normally lose some time there.
Then the 3 Donkeys. Individually they all have less chances, but put together I saw myself roughly at the same level as the 2 other favorites. TTT looks good, depending on how well I ride it I can maybe even hope to win it? FL the better TT values, Donkey has the mountain. And downhill (but with one exception FL too). Team there, lowest mountain 60, then 61, then 67.. of course the problem always helping, my 67 will normally be weaker than some 62 guy that is helped in another team. So earlier siebs better.. reg is not exceptional, FL much stronger there, helpers. Leaders... 51-65-65, no problem there. But all my guys can be followed... unpredictability who attacks, who's the leader a big +

The others, have to wait for their chance and take it. NOrmally the winner will be from one of those 3 teams... but if we weaken ourselves in the battle too much, one of them might be the laughing fourth... or 6th. 3x 86, means stay with Afshin, who often will not be able to attack, try to gain a second here, another one there... and be on the right Donkey on days a Donkey gains time. TTT normally all should lose some time to FL, even if another TT prediction problem I have is Kostic with his 72 for Hessen. Button has a good helper with Hamilton, a good classic, but not much else. Luques 68 max helper, , Hessen 71, then 64+65, that often should be above Son. Vangramberen purely from the numbers only * star, but Feiting is a talented manager, so he got **. Follow Hisashi is best plan, then see what happens. Different from the 3 others in the ** line, they rely mostly on FL and parasite him, Vangramberen after refusing to join the Donkey team now should try to rely on the Donkeys...if Armin siebs, or something like that.

Anyway, that was more or less the assessment at the start, an update to what I think after 5 days follows soon.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:54 pm

Race so far..
3 important days, 4-6 really. Thought it was only 5 days.. seems 6.
Day 4, clearly a day to use my team. But actually I think I used it pretty badly. The result finally was ok, the usage of the team... weak. I blame getting overly excited and not being used to this anymore. First I had Zipoli, and while he still needed to try from far with the team at times, having the best climber is something entirely different to having an inferior one. Then with Zafzaf from the Andes to the Dauphiné I was basically in controling mode... attacks yes, but no need to explode the race. Aeschlimann at the tour, attacking, but out of GC. So it's been a while since I had to do what I have to do again now. I think I used to be a bit better at it... but hopefully it will come back soon.

First mistake really was not to let the escape go. Instead of hanging on Rasmussen's red chaser and forcing FL to ride. Don't ride against everybody, chose the battles, hope the escape has allies... which would have been possible.
Then basically I did everything at least one mountain too early. Got excited... ha, can try this now, ha, can attack with those... looked at the profile.. damn, all too early. But did the next action, the GC attack too early as well. Meier and Vangramberen following, Meier then said let's all just ride while I had planned to bring Matsuoka over a hill.. ok, let's go. Worked, even if Hisashi and Vangramberen then couldn't follow till the end. But was fun to go in with the leaders that early. Stage and yellow for Meier, some time gain for Aeschlimann. Good defence, even if energy costly by FL. Especially since he was in the train with a laptop and then only on the phone. 40" lost to Meier and Aeschlimann, certainly not perfect for him to lose time to Meier here. Aeschlimann or another Donkey less tragic, had somehow to be expected here. Out of GC, Hisashi, but well, I knew I couldn't hold 3 guys in the GC forever, or if I did they would all do nothing and end up somewhere between 5-10 in the GC.

Next day, yellow Rasmussen, so clearly I hang on him again. And don't plan to cooperate in the escape, he has yellow, not much energy so clearly a problematic day for him, hang, block him or profit of him. IMO FL should have reacted immediately and shut this down, but energy problems.. Then it worked perfectly for me. Rasmussen riding alone for his stage... Donkey hanging with his 2 600 energy guys. Then the attack everybody knew was coming, Innocenti waiting, Hisashi and Hiroshi without hangers (surprisingly, there probably hasn't been a most obvious attack in decades), working, got them to cooperate, they are both rather egoistic arrogant over confident assholes, but managed to have Hisashi ride for Hiroshi. IN the end 2'20" win, plus 4" bonification, Hiroshi in yellow. Here I rode well I think, or well... just did what I had to do. Hang on Rasmussen, with whatever the result is (if he stops the escape, ok too, if I can parasite a stage win out of him, ok too), then do the attack if there is a chance. But IMO here FL rode rather badly.. like I did the day before really. First just hang too, he must have known the red chaser would go again. If not, at least hang on me. Then shut it down. Then don't try to save energy in the beginning of the last hill.. .go in with Satour blue.. or red. Would lose much less in the attack already. Then the chase ok, but towards the end. Instead of attacking Meier, attacking Caius in the lighter part of the climb, he pulls everybody. Just attack us, neither of us could follow I think. And that's 2 guys that are not that easy to get rid otherwise, by going on one of the 5... they lose a minute. Like this it was 30" just from 9 9 and the flat end, buy going earlier can be much more. Afshins reg.. .yes, but sometimes it's worth sacrificing fitness for a minute. Especially if it's against an 88 that is very hard to distance in the mountain and 86 that can be an uncomfortable backpack for much of the tour.

Today: Well, better than hoped for for HIroshi. Full blown catastrophe for Aeschlimann. Feiting dropping him.. not really his job, for nothing really, it might even hurt him more than help him. A Hisashi-Caius escape with Peter as companion would have been good for both, now? WE just all lost energy for nothing, Unless I get place one AND 2 for the stage, no point riding really. And if I get that, I'll ride slowly enough so that Peter doesn't get yellow :lol: Sieb ok, but then continue... hand of to FL made much more sense. But actually the only one really to blame is me... dropped, Hisashi, who was helping Hiroshi the whole day anyway, oh, tempo hope to come back at 6. Caius dropped to.. only 5sec back, ride, and he's back. But no, Hisashi who's 10" back. After the 6 3" back, Hisashi, Aeschliman, Pilioko, Son.. a 5, what do I do? Go out. In front I have a helper for Hiroshi, enough, there's Kaiser in my group, mmh, better don't bring him back another guy that could be used for tempo if I'm dropped. So out. Incredibly stupid. Somehow was only thinking about helpers for Hiroshi, not about Caius. Then realized it, put Hisashi back in, but too late.. and should have been Caius anyway. Result, 7'01" lost to Afshin. Because I was too stupid to ride for Caius or WITH Caius. He would have lost time today anyway, no doubt, maybe even as much as Amisten, 1'30, but then he stays a certain threat. And if I manage to bring Pilioko/Son back with Hisashi... maybe less than that. Try the 5 with Caius (but the safe play clearly Caius at the 6, he's back, boum. Ok, a hardish sieb at the first **-1 drops him again... he was always at risk today, especially since he had no chance to be back at 1000... But like this? Pure idiocy. A 86 helper, nothing more. Lost one of my big plus cards today.

So... situation, Hiroshi Matsuyama yellow, in a much much better position than I hoped for. But 1'51" vs Pirhashemi with 86 mountain? Don't think pure DEFENCE is already the correct strategy. 2'09" vs Meier? Even less, he'll make mincemeat out of Hiroshi on stage 11+13. Again, don't think pure DEFENCE is the right answer. But after losing Aeschlimann today... basically that's what I have to do. Defend. Can't force FL into energy wasting chasing possible relay stationst anymore, the threat is minimal, the future attack for time has to come from Hiroshi, hang on him, he's neutralized. Reg for Afshin a problem, but follow with Schramm too, then control with him... But basically now I have to live off the advantage I have, since further time gain seems unlikely. And both Meier and Pirhashemi can win on Hiroshi.. enough, hopefully not, but... some of the time gain is automatic, but probably just the automatic stuff might not be enough. TTT now will be very very important. I need to extend my advantage to Pirhashemi and Meier. Pirhashemi wants to gain time back.. Meier normally can't, so for him it's minimize the time loss.

The rest IMO now is out of the race for the win, with Caius not only my hopes but those of countless other dreamers where shattered.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:03 am

All in all, great analysis, but one little mistake. Afshin has 85 mountain, not 86.... (that amd the missing itt you thought was there maybe the reason why you fear him that much ;) )
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:22 am

Hmm, 85? Defence!
I really thought he was 86 all the time.
Blame Zafzaf, didn't need to care about such details.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:01 pm

My TTT dominance is back! Before Zafzaf, or maybe before Zipoli I managed to win 3 or so TTT during stage races in a row... then not anymore, but ha, I'm back.
I did hope that my mountain skills would put me over FL here, but expected something close... but FL had to wait twice, so in the end 1'10", a clear win.
So now in the GC 3'01", against a 85 that really is an 86, he will train, believe me. And if not he has the attitude of an 86. DEFENCE! But looks much better than I thought, the minute here is huge. Now I am the favorite no 1, clearly. But that doesn't mean it's automatic, it's the Andes, attrition, it takes just one mistake to lose lots of time. Hiroshi won 2' on one stage, opposite can happen too, even if I do have the better mountain team. But now just 10-15" here and there not enough anymore, he does need a bigger time gain somewhere. And there's more pavé festivals coming, stage 14 and 15 :?
Third then surprisingly Rasmussen, IMO the winner of the day. Looking at the numbers, he should have been further back. Seems he rode it full power from km 1 to the end? Or used a few guys first, Vifian, dropped him later? Anyway, most likely a more energy consuming tactic, but since tomorrow it's unlikely that much happens, right decision. Probably the Donkeys started going full power too late... anyway, he did better than everybody else really, only 15" to FL is huge. 1'25" to me seems to be what Rasmussen expected, ok, I didn't expect anything timewise, but looking at it now... and how much I gained on others... he's the one that did best, that got the most out of his team. GC 3'34"... DEFENCE Stage 11-13 look very good for him, good enough to gain back 3'34"... probably not, so again, he needs a big time gain somewhere. Normally he should overtake FL somewhere, but then risks having cobblestones thrown at him in the last 2 days too.

The others at this point are pretty much irrelevant in GC. They all need a big coup to come back into the GC. Doesn't look too likely right now. But who knows.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Rasmussen » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:12 pm

Yes i went full gas from the start in the Team time trial. Worked quite well, without that mistake on the 12% the time loss would be around 70 seconds or maybe even less.

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:53 am

Well, it looks like the podium is set very much. And Hiroshi with 85 mountain now, it won't be easier to change position one. So Afshin and Armin will fight for place two it looks like, while Peter Vangamberen will take home the white jersey. Only a complete off day with wrong settings could change that. But you never know.

Anyway, Team FL and Rasmussen seem to have changed their goals already - well, Rasmussen probably started with other goals. While Rasmussen is chasing the red jersey for best rider in the mountain classement, Team FL looks like going for the green one, winning the points classement with Afshin. Both classement seems to be still open as there are still many GPMs to come and Afshin has a decent opponent with Lucas Hamilton from Buttons Bashers.

In the meantime, no team really could stack up stage wins, as it is distributed very evenly. What is surprising though is that Team FL is the only team still waiting for one, either due to the GC fight, being unattentive/otherweise occupied or pure incompetence. Maybe even laziness, but the team management would never admit that.

So, will Team FL finish with 0 stage wins? Will Afshin still win green? Will the Big Donkey make a big mistake with Hiroshi? Will all teams finish with all riders? A lot of questions still to be answered. Don't miss the way to the result... 14 o'clock it is. :)
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:37 am

Good day yesterday for the Donkey, 11" lost to Meier, 6(6" boni) and 7" won to Pirhashemi (4" boni)
So 3'08" and 3'26" advantage now.

Just 4 stages remaining, but that's 4 hard stages.
12: 120 km non sieb approach to a hard last mountain. That has an easier finish. 2 km flat, and even before nonsieb km. Normally I should be able to control that climb fairly well with my 3 climbers. Losing time possible, but should manage to keep it small.
13: Very hard stage, ideal for lots of action. And even without action, will be very energy consuming. 246 km, 6340 meters climbing, lots of helpers will be very weakened. Long term attacks cost energy, long term siebs too, Gruppetto work too, but, since lots of stuff costs energy anyway, might use that energy for some tempo, attacks etc, instead of just going under reg by doing nothing. The final climb then is long, in a way similar to the one on stage 12 but much longer, all together over 40 km and while the end is easier than the middle, it doesn't completely flatten out. Much harder to control this than the day before, but of course I have a good team for the approach, might be able to isolate Meier. If I want to... costs energy. Energy I might need in the last 2 days.
14: Much easier... but many riders will be under reg. Downhill start will put Afshin over reg again, in case he was under at the end of stage 14. Helpers won't be that lucky. The end looks much more dangeorus for me. 3 7 5**-10-4-2 3 -2* to be repeated 3 times. 5** looks ideal for a certain Pirhashemi. Drop and go might even work? Or attack and go., but for reg reasons he might need a helper there, unlikely Schramm can be that. he probably will need to help Pirhashemi a bit along the way. If classics are still there everything changes of course.
15: Km 1: 2* Can Afifi drop Hiroshi Matsuyama? If yes, I'm in big trouble. FL the better flat reg guys, so he will be faster, even if my 6 flattish guys will clearly all help Hiroshi Matsuyama on that km. If no, good. Lots of sweat for nothing. Because this 2*, to be ridden 11 times in 91 km will influence the race a lot in the next days. It might prevent FL from going all out on stage 14? And it will make the Donkey try to maximize his energy before this stage.. .but of course that means FL will be up there too. 7 flat riders vs 6, 85-82-82-80-80-79-78, 5 of those with over 55 reg, vs 81-79-79-78-77-76. Max reg 53.... IF Afifi can drop Hiroshi Matsuyama I'm in big trouble. Usually * is nothing, can't drop anybody really, but with the 2, I'm very worried.
Also I'm a big idiot, after staring at this profile for hours, it finally hit me that this 2* seems to go down in the profile... ah... it's a -2! YEAH. Ok, have to replan the whole final 4 days, was all based on this anti-Japanese 2*.... Ok, changes everything, a fit Hiroshi won't be dropped there. But too tired to rewrite the whole post, but stage 14 now becomes the one where FL can go under reg and go early, since Caius or Hisashi most likely will be of little use anyway, it would turn out to be 3 laps of 1 vs 1, with Afshin gaining time. But not 3' unless I make a big mistake.
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:16 am

Again, good analysis besides the little mistake with the pavé. But it seems there is a pattern. And Afshin feels honoured. You thought in random order that:
- he's an 86 climber;
- there is an ITT in this year's Campeonato;
- the TTT would be closer (well, thought that too first); and
- the pavé km is 2* instead of -2*.

Anyway, better this way (for you) than the other way round and better safe than sorry. So, instead of a hard fight for the GC it became rather a walk in the park for Hiroshi after his time gain at stage 5. Although in my opinion, one of the main reasons has nothing to do with Hiroshi or Afshin but with Meier. It looks like Meier early on decided not to go for GC but leave the floor open for his team to chase other goals, be it stage wins or the mountain classement. With the best climber not competing for GC in the Campeonato, Afshin failing to react properly when it matters so far and the other teams little active in that fight too, it doesn't look likely that anything will change for Hiroshi.

Facing the final four stages, I don't think Hiroshi will be in big danger. He has the best support by far for the upcoming profiles, maybe losing some seconds here and there, but 3 min? I don't think so. Still, better for Big Donkey to stay vigilant; you never know. Looking at the facts, the relevant GC standings after the rest day are:

01. 00:00 Hiroshi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
02. 03:08 Afshin Pirhashemi (Team FL)
03. 03:26 Armin Meier (Rasmussen)
04. 04:17 Artyom Filatov (Luques)
05. 05:48 Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
06. 06:05 Danny daCosta (Hessen Cycling
07. 06:50 Luca Hamilton (Buttons Bashers)

Youth classement looks very straightforward too.It's mainly Peter Vangramberen and then nothing for a loooong time. With a time advantage over 40 min to the next rider (Hisashi Matsuyama from Big Donkey), the only way for him to lose his white jersey would be to give up. The mountain classement seems set too as nobody has been challenging Pierre Bourquenoud from Rassmussen, leading with 36 points in front of his own team mate, Armin Meier. The points classement is a bit closer and maybe the only real competition left in the race. Happy FL sees that Afshin is leading with 106 points in front of Luca Hamilton from Buttons Bashers with 93 points and Arytom Filatov from Luques is on third place with 80 points.

Regarding stage wins it's still only Team FL waiting for one (and still having the points jersey at the moment...). Here the numbers look like this so far:

Stage wins by riders:

2 - Armin Meier (Rasmussen)
1 - Pierre Bourquenoud (Rasmussen)
1 - Gelson Fernandes (Hessen Cycling)
1 - Bernd Hanemann (Buttons Bashers)
1 - Thierry Hussard (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Lorenzo Innocenti (Big Donkey)
1 - Hiroshi Matsuoka (Big Donkey)
1 - Bulat Nurullin (Luques)
1 - Robin Zingle (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Big Donkey (TTT)

Stage wins by teams:

3 - Big Donkey
3 - Rasmussen
2 - Feiting Siebing
1 - Buttons Bashers
1 - Hessen Cycling
1 - Luques
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by luques » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:58 am

Easy and short stage today until the last climb. Probably will miss again the start.
Until now all good, let's hope someone wants to move a bit next days because at the moment it's really boring (not that I helped too much to make it funny actually :lol: )

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:03 pm

Walk in the park? Big park then!
Boring, pff, I tried attacks before you people decided to kick Caius out of the GC. :twisted:
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:06 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:03 pm
Big park then!
Well, your the "Big" Donkey. So big park needed anyway ;)
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:04 pm

While others (Luques) complained that it was boring so far, I disagreed, until yesterday. That was indeed boring.
Attack, downhill sieb, catching the group (which I was tempted to go and get anyway more later), some weaklings (Satour, who was the target really, Vangramberen) in the back, wait a bit until Feiting is online, then ride... Got the group. First big mountain, there sieb, go, once on top, all is ok. Basically a group can go. I don't care. The only one trying, the same as the first group: Rasmussen. Hessen on his heels. Catch him. A bit tired of working in the peloton for Meier's wins, not guaranteed, but with 88 mountain vs a bunch of 86... instead of doing the daily attacks, he could ride a bit. But he insisted, so in the end put Pilioko on Pierre Bourquenoud and that's it, enjoy the ride. The stage was wide open for other attacks, I didn't even cover all the climbing km, as I would usually do. Because there was no danger really, the final climb was too isolated for a successful GC attack from far. Ok, if I was the one chasing with my team I would have had to try here, hard first climb, insist, attack with different guys 100 times until something happens... but difficult for me too, was very control friendly stage really. So the peloton does nothing. Just attack, it's wide open, by doing nothing, letting the gruppetto that was at over 10' back, I think I showed I wasn't going to chase. Of course I chased every group, but if Rasmussen is in every group....Just try. Some 70-80 chasing Bourquenod and Pilioko, no problem for me. Amisten? Ok. Filatov, problem, I give him 2 minutes, not more. But nobody moved to chase or follow... why not try, even if I react what is lost, a few energy points with a few guys that in the end won't be too useful at the end of the stage. Understand FL not going, today's stage seems much better for his team, but the rest? So nothing happening, Bourquenoud and Pilioko 13' ahead, then as feared Rasmussen stopped. Meier the man... after some chase in the back, which I didn't really understand either, what for, after doing nothing for most of the stage now you chase? Doing what I tried to refuse to do, ride for Meier, pfffffff. Got a hammer, hit myself in the nuts with it a few times and felt better... Result as expected, Meier wins. Way different than I thought, attacked early, when I was still trying to slow down everything in the back, for the little Piliokochance (was already small, I thought we needed 15 minutes or so 40 km from the end when the climb started, we had around 9, and Rasmussen logically was more interested in Meier than Bourquenoud. Early attack, gained a lot immediately, expanded the advantage, then lost less than I had hoped when Hiroshi took over. Big win, now 2'01" back... Normally shouldn't win too much today, even if he proved stronger on pavé in the first round... grrr.
Today DEFENCE. For yellow would be nice if it turns out like yesterday, nobody trying.. .but for action some tries would be good. As long as they are not successful...(GC wise, stage win ok ok, be successful as much as you want, don't care)
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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by team fl » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:45 am

Now we know it: -2* doesn't sieb anybody. In the end, it was a late attack that sealed the deal for the stage win, that Frédéric Vifian (Rasmussen) could celebrate. The rest ended as expected: Hiroshi Matsuyama wins the GC, exactly 2 min in front of Afshin Pirhashemi who took back place 2 on Sunday with a stage win himself and won the points classement. On third place only 4 secs behind the self proclaimed Prince of Persia finished the most successful stage hunter of this year's afternoon edition, Armin Meier from Rasmussen. Meier's team mate, Pierre Bourquenoud was not only one of the most aggressive riders, he was also gathering the most mountain points and hence will take home the red mountain jersey. Finally, the best youth rider unter 25 was to be found in the team Feiting Siebing. Finishing on place 5 of the GC, Peter Vangramberen won it way ahead of Hisashi Matsuyama who's main task was to help Hiroshi win the Campeonato. Eventually, this all leads to the following facts and final standings:

General classement:

01. 00:00:00 Hiroshi Matsuyama (Big Donkey)
02. 00:02:00 Afshin Pirhashemi (Team FL)
03. 00:02:04 Armin Meier (Rasmussen)
04. 00:03:32 Artyom Filatov (Luques)
05. 00:05:22 Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)
06. 00:06:03 Danny daCosta (Hessen Cycling)
07. 00:09:53 Caius Aeschlimann (Big Donkey)
08. 00:12:33 Lucas Hamilton (Buttons Bashers)
09. 00:22:43 Koen Amisten (Buttons Bashers)
10. 00:30:42 Maik Schramm (Team FL)

Moutain classement:
Pierre Bourquenoud (Rasmussen)

Points classement:
Afshin Pirhashemi (Team FL)

Youth classement: Peter Vangramberen (Feiting Siebing)

Team classement: Big Donkey

Stage wins by riders:

3 - Armin Meier (Rasmussen)
1 - Pierre Bourquenoud (Rasmussen)
1 - Gelson Fernandes (Hessen Cycling)
1 - Artyom Filatov (Luques)
1 - Bernd Hanemann (Buttons Bashers)
1 - Thierry Hussard (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Lorenzo Innocenti (Big Donkey)
1 - Hiroshi Matsuoka (Big Donkey)
1 - Bulat Nurullin (Luques)
1 - Afshin Pirhashemi (Team FL)
1 - Frédéric Vifian (Rasmussen)
1 - Robin Zingle (Feiting Siebing)
1 - Big Donkey (TTT)

Stage wins by teams:

5 - Rasmussen
3 - Big Donkey
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Luques
1 - Buttons Bashers
1 - Hessen Cycling
1 - Team FL
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:34 pm

Walk in the park!

Not really, but ok, in the end it turned out easier than expected. After the TTT I was never really in danger. But in a way I defended by intimidation, wow, big Donkey team, can't beat it, let's not try. Yes, FL tried, Rasmussen had no intention of really trying from the start, well, trying yes I think, but by waiting for a chance, opportunistic attack at the right moment (like if I let Schnyder in front too long on the last GC stage, then Meier goes for sure) for the others hard with the lack of strong leader or strong team, but Luques after complaining a lot finally tried himself too. Wrong day of course.

In the end 2 days decided. Or 3. Stage 4, I think I rode rather badly, time gain for Aeschlimann finally there, but generally badly ridden by me. All too early, all too wild, all too 2 dimensional. But, important, all energy consuming, for me and for the guy I was attacking mainly, FL.

Day 5 then, 2'24" won. That was basically the winning margin. The time losses in the last 2 days could have been smaller, with a closer race I hope I would have managed to lose less to Meier and Pirhashemi in the last 2 GC stages. But ok, you never know, maybe with a closer race I would have lost the same... How I won it... can understand FL frustration. I follow Rasmussen, don't cooperate, he carries me all the way, I attack with Hiroshi, nobody follows, nobody helps FL in the back, I win over 2' and finally the tour. So got half gifted the win... yes, in a way. But a big part of this half-gift IMO was by FL himself. Rasmussen in yellow, attacks, I follow. Don't let us go. Chase. If you don't hang on Bouquenoud yourself. Meier was in yellow that day, and while he could expect to lose time in the TTT, with his 88 in the mountains Meier could hope to gain time here and there. Both vs me, 86 or 84 leader (both with possibility to go to 85) and FL. At that point in the race, Meier clearly was somebody to be reckoned with. So don't let him go, don't let me go, either follow or chase. Team is dead. Yes, but here I take credit, part of the wild thing the day before was to weaken his team too, obviously. And mine was likely even deader than his, since my attacks were bad. My two attackers were at +/- 600 energy at the start. Ignore the energy sometimes, I just assumed few riders where at 1000 anyway, lots of 800 guys, even doing nothing the day before, then 600 seems decent. CHASE, or follow the pretty likely attack by Bourquenoud. Then when I went, again, too slow guy in tempo. Already gifted me 20-30" there. In the end didn't matter, yes, but at this point in the race every second matters. Then had to chase alone. Rasmussen should have helped, yep, agree, by helping, minimizing the time loss, or catching me completely he certainly would have improved his chances. Even if he had to expect to lose time to Afshin that day. Ah, that's the next mistake by FL that day, he carried Meier and Aeschlimann too far. Last little hill, attack early, both those Swiss stars where never fit that day. 3-4-3-5-5-9-8 that hill, he dropped us on the 9, attack at the 3 already, doubt Aeschlimann can follow, doubt Meier can. If they can, try at 5 again. Again, in the end this didn't matter, Hiroshi had it already in retrospect, but didn't know that at this point. Meier still a danger, Caius too (for 24h, sniff), gain time on them. Ok, having more people in the GC better for FL, I can't concentrate on him... but well IMO there getting rid of a Donkey (I didn't really expect that Aeschlimann would lose THAT much the next day) and Meier more decisively was worth losing 10-20" more to Hiroshi.
Decisive stage finally, as I said, I did some things right, weaken the team under attack the day before, taking my chance, but yes, in the end it's a bit of a gift. By Rasmussen, but also FL himself.

TTT the third decisive day, hoped to win, but wasn't sure too, certainly didn't expect such a big win vs FL.

After that, as I said, never was really in danger. Intimidation.

Since I enjoy criticizing FL, lets do some more: The big mountain stage 13. Fuck me! Well, no, this came out wrong. Fuck my team. My team is stronger, but you had one big advantage, that you never used. REgeneration. I had Gopal-Innocenti as good reg-boys. Then the 2 Matsuyamas. But they were nothing compared to your guys. Stage 13 should have been used a bit like I used stage 4. To weaken my team. Sacrifice some guys, make me work. Looks what I need to have the next day. Matsuoka or Tobar fit. I spent a good time of the day loading Matsuoka despite that he started at 970:) And killed all your chances for a big time gain the next day. Make me suffer, make me chose, either a fit Matsuoka, or bigger time loss that day (well, it was already big to Meier) Make the race hard. yes, I have the mountain skill, but Tobar at 100, Pilioko and Son too, Gopol and INnocenti, then even a fit Matsuoka might not be enough the next day. Yes... your team will suffer too, but except Satour they have reg. Even if we both put 5 riders at 0, the next day your stronger. Mine will be at 400-530, yours closer to 600, Ok, it was a stage that was rather easy to control, because in the end the final climb was rather isolated, not too close to the rest, or the other steep stuff. But still try. Maybe I can afford not to chase, depending on what's in the group, but maybe you can force me too, and weaken my team. Like this I even could weaken my team a bit without being forced... Pilioko in escape.... Force me to use more, I had MAtsuoka at almost 1000 and even Tobar at over 800 I think. Try to force me to use more! It works, it doesn't, who knows, but try. Follow Bourquenod sounds good again, if not then try again later. Basically I managed to control the stage by scaring all, first downhill sieb, some keeping away, fast first cat 1. Then I did nothing at all. Force me to do things.

Ok, enough criticizing FL, was good he was there. He tried. And it was harder than last year, last year he was very close for a long time, but with Zafzaf already a strong climber, I never really had to be scared of him, seemed always in control, this time I had to fight to get a time gain, and then couldn't really be sure not to lose it again, wasn't automatic that the walk in the park would be done, big rain or so, all muddy, then no walk in the park. Big reason for the walk as well Rasmussen, that rode for GC as mentioned, trying to be forgotten too hit us, or me finally once. Even with this team, some little effort here and there could have made it much more difficult for me. And if he brought a better team.. either Rüttimann for the TTT instead of Dilier, or Jeker for the mountain... very hard to beat. With the best team, Jeker and Rüttimann, plus the other TT guy he has somehwere... clear favorite. Not sure why he chose to go a) for stages b) for stealth GC.... at least a) stages b) slightly active GC would have been better.

The others, GC was over once I was in command. As long as I was chasing, attacking, they could hope to profit from me and beat me somewhere, with me in DEENCE mode.... basically over for them. Which was good for me, so they really had little incentive to make me work on stage 13 and the like. But why nobody even tried to go for the stage there is a complete mystery.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: Afternoon (14h?!) Campeonato de los Andes

Post by Rasmussen » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:55 am

I thought actually that I will miss at least 4 or 5 stages and that's why I didnt bring up my best line up. Yes without these 2 minutes loss on stage 4 or 5 against Hirosi, Meier would be in contention for the overall victory but the Big Donkey could have isolated mIer on several stages for nearly the complete stage if he was a real opponent. So actually even without these 2 minutes I wont have a chance against the Donkey but of course it would be a bit more exicting for a longer time...but not my job to make the race interesting, so I choose to go for stages and the podium spot.

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