Tour de France 2017 15h

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Robyklebt
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:32 pm

Before the last 6 stages:

Zipoli
Kanuk 4"

Yep, Kanuk is very close and now we're back into stage bonifications and such. Yeah, 2 more TT for Zipoli, but with same form and same luck that's 12-13". So it's very very close now. Why? Stupidity mostly. Big mistake yesterday, Lula tempo, goes out, oh, an attack is coming. Donkey thinks... should I attack myself? Zipoli and Sax? Ah no... just follow. Km change, all climbers except Zipoli and Alkaev and Diaz ahead. Just thinking you follow isn't enough yet, you have to make the necessary clicks, somehow didn't think that far. Stupid, very avoidable time loss yesterday. But ok, in a way lucky, took an old people's nap, the nap was so succesful that I woke up after the race started. Rush online, big group, but fortunately not so much danger somehow. Anyway, some safety tempo, but then Lula who was in front decided to catch the group, since yeah, in that group only Bugatti seemed to have chances. He then won anyway. Anyway, good nothing major happened in those 15-20 km I came too late. Then big Donkey fuck up in the end, really unnecessary, now only 4" to Kanuk.

The others closed too
Kadyrkhanov 1'47" the closest, Alkaev at 2'25" the last of that group, he's 8th in GC. Not too worried about them all still, can let them win some time, not too much, but about Kanuk... clearly worried there now. 4" just isn't a confortable advantage.

Most likely 3 of the remaining 6 stages will end in sprints, Wednesday and Thursday though big GC days. We hope Zipoli will be ready!
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Robyklebt
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:05 pm

Oh, winner is Liquigas. Youtube competition...Completely forgot to announce a winner, most likely FLs fault since he didn't post an entry. Or I missed it. As good as Liquigas at youtubing today, he was horrible in the race. Excellent chance to get a stage win, but refuses to collaborate because... he likes to be special it seems. And tries to get that extra advantage. Doesn't seem to be afraid to gamble by not riding, if the others bring him to the finish, he wins, if they don't, he doesn't. But why is he never ready to gamble by riding? If he rides and wins the sprint, he wins, if he rides and loses the sprint, he loses... Bah.

So Zipoli won the stage, his 4th, didn't count to win this one. Attack, everybody important follows, exception Kanuk, weird. Thought Kadyrkhanov had early form, and wouldn't be able to follow. But did. So why not Kanuk, who I thought probably had Pyrenees form too? But ok, attack, then Tukh rode for his downhill classic. So lost over 2' until the top of the Galibier, got half of it back in the flat at the end. What I probably would have done is: Ride with Kanuk, at least a few km to see if he comes back, more energy after all, if he doesn't, then well, wait for his classics.
Anyway, stage win for Zipoli, now in the GC 1'25" to Kanuk, 2'08" to Kadyrkhanov. Can certainly sleep calmer than before the stage. But the Tour ends in Paris, yeah, I need to do big mistakes AND have bad luck to lose the advantage, but the Tour still only ends in Paris. On Sunday.

Anyway, youtube was the important part.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

team fl
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by team fl » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:30 am

My YouTube entry today will be dedicated to Liquigas-CND :)
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Liquigas-CND
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Liquigas-CND » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:57 pm

Come on, how can you say that I am never ready to ride? Remember last years GT's when my riders were almost always in tempo during the mountainous, hilly or flat stages. Weird you dont remember Andres Velasquez, the guy that chased more escapes then the entire team Big Donkey during the last 3 years.

I ride when I consider I need to ride.
Yesterday, after that Lula Attack, I considered it's better just to wait and hang on FL climber in order not to start under reg today.
Good or bad that was the tactic and i knew that Zipoli may attack when Lula and FL climbers stopped in front but i decided not to ride green 2 km...after all I have many stages won in GTs; one more is not so important.

It was more important to gain time on Karanka and to make Nordikhan start under reg today. Did not happen but I am ok with the results.

As I said at the beginning I have not set any goal such as winning a stage or whatever.

Thx
-GC: Giro'15,'16,18,19;TDF'16,'18,'20;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:57
-Classics:17

Robyklebt
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Never ride when in doubt...You ride when you have the clear favorite (well, starting from the Giro 15, before that you didn't ride even then :D ), but very few times in situations such as yesterday. When you're not the clear favorite, but just have some chances, like you had yesterday. 57-55-54 sprint? Others at times ride too much in situations like this, others tend to find the right amount not to disrupt the escape but then still win (this damn FL usually a specialist at that) others like you can be counted on either winning after sucking so much that the others have no more chance in the escape or then destroying the escape. And why is it so imporant to gain time on Karanka and have Kadyrkhanov under reg? I'd have guessed that you have enough GT podiums, not to need another one. But ok, if you don't have any goals, just here to enjoy the youtube competition (that I should be dominating, if it wasn't for corrupt judges, today finally we had a good one again) that's ok too, but just a tiny little bit weird.
And Velasquez is nothing compared to Feng Ouyang btw.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:01 pm

Zipoli. After the Giro and the Tour de Suisse the third important stage race. Good. And the best of the three this year. Giro... Zipoli never should have won that. Best climber yes, but despite that, shouldn't have won. Then on the Ortisei stage all opponents decided to let me do whatever I wanted, didn't even have the sense to follow the guy they could follow, Uppdal, just let me go. Thanks and bye. Most opponents didn't seem interested in the win for most of the Giro anyway, but on that they seemed just to completely ignore the obvious attack. Just ONE team trying to prevent the obvious attack and I wouldn't have... But ok, so Zipoli wins the Giro, but somehow wasn't that fun when all of the sudden you're just given it like that.
TdS then was a) not so important, it's not a GT. b) to clear, too easy. Kanuk not in form, Zipoli in form, he was just too strong compared to the others. 4 stages and GC, points jersey, nice, but a bit too easy there, this time just because ZIpoli was strong, not because the opponents did something wrong.

Tour on the other hand was quite nice. Good music too. Zipoli the favorite, but before the start IMO not the BIG favorite that he could seem. Of course we always see our own chances worse than they turn out to be when we're favorite, but still, didn't think it would be easy. Turned out easier than thought. The problems I saw:
-Not all that many mountain top arrivals. 3. Belles Filles, Peyragudes and Izoard.
-Downhill. Zipolis weakness (I think my occasional private coach Allagen even told me that Zipoli was a mistake, because of the downhill), and there were a few stages where downhill was important. Yes, Uppdal for that, but others can follow him most of the time, so hard to gain time. And even though there were no great TT monsters around, just winning some seconds here and there might not be enough.
-Downtraining. 33, so the percentages not too bad. But still, who knows. Turned out he downtrained, so didn't win the stage he wanted to win most.... Peyragudes. Ok, actually the stage he wanted to win most was Serre Chevalier, but that was unrealistic (ok he won it) Without downtraining actually that stage seemed ok, with it wasn't so confident.
-The team: Only one classic, Sax, no reg, but that's ok, I'm used to classics with no reg. But usually have 2. Vienuolis coming up, but for him the Tour 2 months or more too early. Ok, that problem could have been easily solved. Bring Garita, downtraining and oldish, but still ok. Or Kehrli, 70-81-76, so too weak in the mountain, if it gets really tough, but otherwise very good. But 68 TT, too expensive. Rather cheap then good was my motto, it's only the Tour after all, not the Giro. (Seriously, I actually think that is good. Turned out with my still high salary, 528398, I was only the fourth most expensive team. Good, RSF is much more interesting when the favorite (or other teams too) have weaknesses, be attackeable. That's one of the things that generally made stage races early in RSFs history rather more interesting than they are now. Less perfect teams. And why is the WC at RSF so boring? Because everybody has the virtually perfect team for the course) But ok, back to the team problems: Not enough downhill, only Uppdal, Tazlauanu and Farkas, what seemed necessary was a classic with downhill. Kehrli again. He could even have challenged for the TT win after all. Poor guy.

Put Zipoli on Peyragudes form, which turned out to be perfect, but it was really mostly because of the training threat.
Then, first stage win on stage 3, didn't expect that one, thought I would be for Beisebekov, but the early form already payed off it seemed.
Planches des Belles Filles next win, that one was expected. Small differences, I think I had hoped for a bit more, but ok
Then the 2 probably most important days of the Tour. Rousses, Zipoli wins, completely unexpected this one. Thought a group. Or if not agreement to block me, but no, Zipoli got the win. Even more important, fit team (I think) for the hard Chambéry stage, which seemed to be very dangerous for me. Weaken me on stage 8, Liquigas with his reg classics, Lula with his attacking spirit. I can control stage 8 I think, but might then be in HUGE problems on stage 9, if Farkas, Tazlauanu etc are dead. But stage 8 was easy. And stage 9 nobody really tried either. They didn't use the terrain that was advantageous for them, early climbs, flat. So I could play out my strenghts, 89 mountain with Zipoli, again. Zipoli makes tempo up the Mont du Chat, Karanka clearly not fighting, dropped, Salazar helping Pugliese, dropped, Kadirkhanov and Kanuk stay, Kadirkhanov dropped on the last km, but we waited.. deal, he rides the downhill, flat then Kanuk some to compensate and Zipoli just rides all. Result 45" gained on all but the 2 that followed. And now only those 2 were really an immediate danger. And those 2 not the big dangers, lack of support/downhill. Good. 2 stages that I expected to be very hard, potentially losing the Tour, turned out to be very positive.
Peyragudes, next big win, the plan was letting all fight on Bales, then attack. Didn't work, downtraining. So attack, Kanuk follows, Alkaev and Pugliese follow Uppdal... the rest back, so they all got another minute. Now only Kanuk dangerous. Next day just defensive control, worked well, since not enough guys tried to follow Karanka. Zipoli did, but couldn't. If others follow, I'm in a bit of trouble, probably lose more time, but since the advantage was already big to the guys that could have followed, still ok.
Puys en Velay then the biggest mistake, didn't follow anybody, all went... 15" or so lost, now Kanuk very close 4", bad. Getting rid of him in the downhill of the Galibier the plan, needed to profit from somebody attacking and follow..
Serre Chevalier, attack on the Galibier, Kanuk doesn't follow, he then waits for his downhill classic, over, over 2' back on top, 1' in the end. Basically the tour won now. And since in front Liquigas was trying to win without riding (or not sure what he was trying, he can tell us) in the end Zipoli even got to win the stage. After being attacked and dropped by Karanka, Kadirkhanov and Salazar on top of the Galibier.
Izoard then easy, even could go for the win with Uppdal. YEah!

In the end I rode quite well, not too many mistakes, but profited a lot from the passivity of the opponents too. But here it's understandeable. Behind Zipoli everybody was so close together that nobody wanted to be the guy to a) move first and be cuaght and then countered by somebody who had waited. b) be followed and carry the others. Has happened to me too in the past, probably could have done more, could have attacked the later winner, but wasn't in the mood to the the work for somebody else (Giro won by Alk, with me not wanting to carry Luques who wasn't even doing the siebs, grr). This time I profited from that. Karanka tried, but not with full conviction, on one day he only sent Duliano, 83 climber, no 2, instead of going himself, then I might have been in some trouble (Pyrenees I think, I already had a cushion, but still) but yeah, he goes with Karanka he risks having 2-3 followers and who knows if cooperation works. Liquigas though overly passive. And FL actually after the Giro could have tried something here once, with Pene he had a potentially good helper. Why not send him somewhere once? But ok, difficult. So not really an accusation to the others, not sure I'd been more offensive either, the constellation just was not too good for them. I and Kanuk too, profited from that. And in the end it was a fairly clear win. And a fun GT I thought. A bit lopsided when it comes to stage wins, FL with 6?, me 5, Tukh 4, 15 stages to 3 teams is a lot. A bit more evenly distributed wouldn't have hurt.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Liquigas-CND
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Re: Tour de France 2017 15h

Post by Liquigas-CND » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:55 am

Good job and GW Big Donkey & Zipoli!
And don't retire Zipoli so soon, just give him the chance to win Vuelta!

Regarding the tour, I have to admit that my mistake during the stage 9 was decisive for losing the confidence in my chances for GC podium.
Salazar lost 45 secs + bonis during that stage and the gap became almost unrecoverable.

Then stage 12 Pau-Peyragudes, I tried to ride for Ambrogio but it was clear that in such a field with many climbers, it is difficult to gain much with such a low TT climber since Zipoli or Uppdal were blocking early. With this bad tactic did not manage to put Ambrogio in a good position and the Orlando gap on the leaders became even bigger.

However, not being the main favourite is very nice and relaxing :)

Thanks for this tour!
-GC: Giro'15,'16,18,19;TDF'16,'18,'20;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:57
-Classics:17

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