Giro 2016 Afternoon (the only real Giro)

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Wed May 11, 2016 7:31 pm

Horrible days with stupid mistakes yesterday (stage 4) and today (stage 5) all due to f...king work.

Stage 4 - I put Paquito to attack at 190 instead of attaking or siebing at km 191...then maybe could have been a good Ideea to ride for a sprint with Predrag, Miguel and Paquito -55 - 55 - 54 sprint train... the result 11 seconst lost

Stage 5 - instead of trying to follow Scheers I put Paquito to follow Lantin...this time i was lucky, Gaurain did not try to attack with his flat monstres.

Waiting now for stage 6 then stage 8 and 9 can be very difficult and riding as yesterday and today Paquito and Dario may be in big danger.
Anyway tomorrow is a good stage to find out the current form of some key riders...

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Thu May 12, 2016 3:09 pm

Selwyn, Selwyn! Rosa and the stage, excellent man. Really should have been happy with rosa, let Novo Banco have the stage... but after the hard chase by Rääts AND more importantly the embarrassing lack of success so far this year really needed more than one day rosa. Or maybe 2/3. So got the stage. But didn't have all that much energy left either at the end, so surprised that the win was so clear.

Today now defence of the jersey, the plan is to win a few minutes more advantage!

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Fri May 13, 2016 9:53 am

Scheers for the second time... (stage 5 and 6) Stole Elwyn the possible victory! pfff...

. More important: Ortiz lost some more time, although still being in a very comfortable position regarding the GC. Most likely, he will be in pink after the ITT on Sunday already. In the meantime, Selwyn Cayetano defended the Maglia Rosa and will wear it until sunday, as far as I see it, if nothing unexpected happens today. Anyway, I think the Afternoon Giro so far showed it's potential for lots of action seeing very aggressive riding styles from escapers and esp. Gaurain during the last days. So hopefully, this continues. Regarding the different classements, not much changed, so lets have a short look on the classement of the GC favourites after the first mountain stage, the rest will be shown after the ITT:

05:36 Jules Scheers (Gaurain Rx)
05:39 Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
05:42 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
05:50 Wladimir Belli (MG Technogym)
05:56 Carlos Lampe (Team FL)
05:59 Joao Peixe (Big Donkey)
06:12 Kiell Leonard (Liberty Sarténe)
06:16 Dario Malacarne (Liquigas-CND)
06:25 Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)
07:34 Marius Lacatus (Liberty Sarténe)

So still everything very close. Only Marius Lacatus lost a bigger amount of time so far. This might change on Sundy though, when Scheers will be overtaken by Ortiz and most likely also by Belli and Lampe again.

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Tue May 17, 2016 8:58 am

The big ITT is over. So are the stages 7-9, on which Giosué Bonomi (7) and Elwyn Oxley (8) could celebrate their second stage win. Theodor Jetson won the ITT as expected. With his win, Elwyn Oxley also further stabilised his lead in the points classement, while Fabio Roscioli managed to defend his lead in the mountain classement. In the youth classement, everything seems to be sealed already with Michele Scarponi being the only real contestand in this category. The team classement is Donkey territory for the moment, as well as the GC, in which Selwyn Cayetano still has an advantage about 2 min over Paquito Ortiz, which could change today though. Anyway, here are the classements after the second rest day:

Classement of the GC favourties (time gap to Selwyn Cayetano):

02:02 Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
02:10 Wladimir Belli (MG Technogym)
03:23 Carlos Lampe (Team FL)
03:24 Jules Scheers (Gaurain Rx)
03:47 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)
04:25 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
04:30 Kiell Leonard (Liberty Sarténe)
04:56 Joao Peixe (Big Donkey)
05:02 Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)
05:30 Dario Malacarne (Liquigas-CND)
06:14 Marius Lacatus (Liberty Sarténe)

Points classement top 3:

1. 159 Elwyn Oxley (Team FL)
2. 139 Giosuè Bonomi (MG Technogym
3. 083 Selwyn Cayetano (Big Donkey)

Mountain classement top 3:

1. 36 Fabio Rsocioli (MG Technogym)
2. 18 Adrian Samuel (Mercatone-uno)
3. 16 Salvatore Puccio (Mercatone-uno)

Rasmussen · Post by **Rasmussen** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:34 am

I think the brillant Selwyn will win it.

Or maybe not because he downtrains tonight.

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:35 am

Rasmussen wrote:I think the brillant Selwyn will win it. Or maybe not because he downtrains tonight.

If he downtrains TONIGHT, he's a cheater anyway.

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Wed May 18, 2016 12:01 pm

Yes, yes, Selwyn!

But no no, not really. Many long mountains coming, will be easy for Liquigas to get rid of him and give him lots of minutes, if he ever gets over his big fear of Scheers. If he doesn't, who knows, but Selwyn is unlikely. Even if he had 20' would be unlikely, I think. But ok, usually we underestimate our own chances.

The climbers and real GC guys:
Belli now first, 3" to Ortiz, 1'21" Lampe, Scheers again 3" back. The rest over 2' back.
Favorite is still Ortiz, clearly. Bellis chance is that by closing down every opening for Scheers, Belli gets away too often and builds a big enough advantage, he won't lose much in the TT either.
For Lampre more difficult, he needs a bigger time gain, but the principle is the same, Ortiz concentrating on Scheers.
Scheers himself, 2 minutes back, and what he needs is the same again. Ortiz concentrating on somebody else. He almost can't win in a one vs one fight, or Team vs Team more precisely, despite the classic advantage he has. 1'24" and he'll get a bit more in the next TT. But he certainly has his chance and showed that the GC is what he's here for, Ortiz noticed it and has been wearing pampers since then.
Further back... Liberty, Mercatone followed by 2 Donkeys. A bit depressing actually, not sure how I managed to be that far back. Ok, TT skill is the lowest, but still, 1'35" to Scheers with only 1 TT point more? Ok, 2 mountain points more too. Not even sure where I lost all this time... probably every day a bit. But the Donkeys stay optimistic, and won't stop looking for opportunities. Even if so far it's been only looking, haven't done anything yet. Ok, threatened Liquigas with Wassberg attacks with Selwyn in front, but I think yesterday Liquigas reacted well to that. Just let him go. And let him have rosa for a while longer. Both happy in the end. Me with rosa, even if it's yellow, grrr, he without getting threatened by Wassberg or Peixe. Stay close to Cayetano, and he risks attacks (followed most likely) by Wassberg or Peixe. If he follows, he might be weakened against Scheers, if he doesn't follow, which I would expect actually, if he doesn't follow, he risks giving time to Wassberg and whoever is following, Belli/Lampe etc. too maybe. But yesterday (not a big risk of such an attack though yesterday) he just let Selwyn go, doesn't really hurt too much to have him ahead.

Generally the second week is not too Liquigas friendly. Today short steep hill, flatish but not completely end, stronger classics might pose a problem. Then Friday-Saturday twice with flat or flattish finish, which isn't Ortiz' strenght compared to all other climbers. So 3 stages that he'll have to pay lots of attention and probably be on the defensive, but the TT on Sunday should clearly work in his favor. And the third week, from what I remember, too.

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Wed May 18, 2016 2:45 pm

"favourite still Ortiz"...i think you did not see the 1st week...1 min 20 sec is nothing when all teams fighting against me,

The mountain TT will not have an important impact ...maybe between 5-15 sec for Paquito against others.
Almost all mounatain /hilly stages remained are not for Paquito... stages 11, 13, 14, 16, 18.
I would say that paquito cannot do something special during stages 19 and 20 considering my weak classics.
2016 Giro is not for a rider with paquito skills.

Therefore I must reconsider my way of riding and of course my expectations, cause i think podium would be very nice for Paq Man:)

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Wed May 18, 2016 4:11 pm

2016 Giro is EXACLTY for a rider with Paquito's skills.

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Sat May 21, 2016 7:43 pm

To me still looks like the sensation will happen, and the rider who doesn't have the skills for this Giro, Ortiz, will win it

Rosa right not is

Belli
Ortiz 2"
Scheers 1'09"
Lampe 1'21"
Scarponi 1'34"
Leonard 2'20"
Wassberg 2'26"
Maicon 2'44"
Rest over 3' back.

Belli, no team and only 39 reg. Plus he'll be rid of rosa tomorrow. Could have lost it today if Ortiz had attacked on the that cat wall, he would have lost 2" more to Scheers or so then...Belli needs a lot to work for him to have a chance. Won't happen I think. Tactically hanging on Wassberg is kind of risky too, ride or be caught is the tactic by Wassberg there...with 39 reg you just can't ride when Wassberg goes, since he has to go early... So why is he there?
Scheers then: Winning time again, but Ortiz has him under tight control. Sooner or later the big attack might come, then we'll see what happens. Such an attack might give the others the chance they need, if then Scheers and Ortiz weaken each other enough. But first the TT tomorrow, according to Liquigas Scheers will lose 10-15". I thought it will be more, but let's see.
Lampe, at least today the brains not to follow Wassberg with his reg, 40, the attack later was for absolutely nothing though. Gambling on Liquigas preferring to stay fit and lose less or nothing to Scheers, was unlikely to work I thought. Liquigas knows that he has a nice reserve on Scheers, he can afford to lose 10" here or there. Worth a try? Risky, since you probably lose time, but didn't happen in the end. Lampe with his reg unlikely too. And if Belli and the offliners follow him if Wassberg doesn't work.. good luck.
Scarponi, 79 mountain, good stage yesterday, that's why he's up there. Will fall back
Leonard: 39 reg, slow online reactions, no real interest in anything anyway it seems, just along for the rides. Some half hearted red chasing by the team. Brilliant stage win with Lacatus yesterday, but Leonard is unconvincing so far. Like Belli seems to have decided that with 39 reg Wassberg is the ideal guy to follow... doubt that's the right thing long term.
Wassberg: 2'26" back and really pretty much out of it. Like most of the others too. Tried yesterday and today, got the wrong guys following, today attack on the Pordoi, which is way too early, yes, 3 followers, 39-39-48 reg, temporary offline- middle long offline- full stage offline(but indirect following). Makes no sense insisting. Of course even without followers that was an attack almost set up to fail, but trying to "break" Liquigas I have to go early, late no chance. Except that then Wassberg after recovering in the peloton went again and got the stage. Which is ok too
Maicon: Following Belli it seems. Sensible setting if your offline. Online takes some time to react very often. But anyway, at 2'44" he's too far to be a danger too.

So... ORTIZ, Liquigas so far controls, well, it's more difficult than last year in a way I think, Gaurain is putting more pressure on him than anybody did last year, but so far he has everything under control. Scheers then the biggest danger, still, riding properly Belli+Lampe might mount a challenge, profit from the war, but so far... ok, not too many possibilities either, and with 39/40 reg difficult to do much as well.

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Sun May 22, 2016 4:24 pm

Finally a win for Paquito, a win deserved considering the team efforts for GC fight during 2 hard weeks.
It is very nice that Paq wears now also la Maglia Rosa but the most important, difficult and the decisive week of Giro 2016 is starting on Tuesday.

GC 1-10 positions:

1. 00:00 Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
2. 00:57 Wladimir Belli (MG Technogym)
3. 01:31 Jules Scheers (Gaurain Rx)
4. 01:46 Carlos Lampe (Team FL)
5. 02:30 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)
6. 03:17 Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)
7. 03:17 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
8. 03:33 Kiell Leonard (Liberty Sarténe)
9. 05:03 Miguell David (Novo Banco - PT)
10.05:54 Breytenach Breytehbach (Team FL)

We still believe that Jules Scheers and Carlos Lampe are favourites to win the GC because their teams are better than Liquigas-CND. Anyway we will fight till the end hoping for a place on podium for Paquito Ortiz.

Green: Oxley from Team FL leads and has 99% chances to keep the Green until the end of 2016 Giro.

Mountain classification: Here MG with Mariano Piccoli (90 points) and Fabio Roscioli (67 points) is fighting with Liberty riders Kimi Salonen (64 points) and Javi Guero (55 points). But here there are also GC guys involved even if accidentally.

White classification - I dont see how mercatone can lose this

1. 02:30 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)
2. 03:17 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
3. 05:03 Miguell David (Novo Banco - PT)

Teams classification: here Donkey is the Boss and probably will easily win.

1. Big Donkey 00:00
2. Team FL 11:51
3. Gaurain rx 12:36

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Mon May 23, 2016 4:27 pm

The mountain TT sorted out a lot in our GC ranking. Ortiz now in front with a decent cushion against Belli (!), Scheers and Lampe. With Scarponi as the missing link, the rest of the contestants is already more than 3 min behind Ortiz.

Question is: Will Liquigas-CND be able to defend that cushion or will an attack overthrow the GC ranking until the finish in the final stage in Tornio? And what's with Malacarne? But let's have a short look at the contestants :

MG Technogym: Belli still second, but not with the Reg to do much on his own. Still, so far he did very very well defending Rosa for a long time and being in reach to Ortiz within a minute. It could also happen that Belli will be passed through the classement in the final week as he lacks support in the mountains.

Gaurain Rx: Scheers was the guy Oritz' has been afraid of the most so far. And indeed, Scheers could take back a lot of time from Oritz' during the first two weeks. But obviously Ortiz was able to afford that due to his TT advantage. So will Scheers be able to do it again and gain back 1:31 and one second against Ortiz? Will Ortiz still have to fear Scheers the most? With a agressive Gaurain Rx as in week 1 and 2, why not.

Team FL: Lampe is the mix between Scheers and Ortiz, with worse climbing skills and hence ranks right behind them, standing at 1:46. If Ortiz focuses on Scheers, Lampe could be the laughing third. But then again, 40 reg are not very inviting for long escapes. But without a certain risk, there will be not much more to gain for Lampe than maybe place 3. So far, he hasn't shown his readiness to assume the risk needed.

Mecatone-uno: Scarponi is the uncontested leader of the youth classement so far and 2:31 behind Ortiz. While he is the worst climber among the top 5 in the GC, he already showed that together with Maicon or others, he is willing to go for a risk and hope for a reward. But usually, Top 5 would already be a huge success for the young climber.

Big Donkey: Wassberg could be the difference maker during week 3. Not because he can win the GC, that's still possible too of course, but because he might be in stage hunting modus and profits from his reg skill, the best among the GC top 10 at the moment and all 80+ climbers. And he has Peixe too, who can support Wassberg achieving his goals. Or adopt them.

Liberty Sarténe: Kiell Leonard is already 3:33 behind Ortiz and looking at his riding style so far rather unlikely to win the GC. But hey, maybe he's on a long leash and maybe Liberty Sarténe get's a grip. Everything is possible.

Novo Banco - PT: The young portuguese team has been riding either very passionatly, or not at all. He's the one for long escapes and stage wins when the GC guys wait for the final part and the GC Action. So if he's online and tries, he might gather one or two stage wins. But not more than a top 10 GC placement with David.

Portugal Ride: Off

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Wed May 25, 2016 4:08 am

3" gained for Scheer and Lampe, Peixe of course gained more, superstar!

So in the end nothing really happened, but very very risky ride by Liquigas I thought. Riding the whole mountain with Delgado... leaving the 2 Gaurain and FL classics in the group and fresh. Lots of possibilities for them to try something. IN the end they didn't, but IMO an unnecessary risk Liquigas took. And didn't even bother covering his ass with Perez in the back. Just in case ride with Perez there.

I'd just ridden the whole mountain with Malacarne. Nobody can do a meaningful attack then. Classics all dropped and chasing. Yes, possibly Delgado BEHIND the FLs+Gaurains, but on top not more than 10", absolute maximum. They get back to Malacarne most likely (but not immediately), attack, but too late... then cover the last hill with Ortiz. The way Liquigas rode it was really just inviting attacks, invitations that weren't accepted in the end, but still..

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Wed May 25, 2016 9:57 am

Robyklebt wrote:3" gained for Scheer and Lampe, Peixe of course gained more, superstar!

So in the end nothing really happened, but very very risky ride by Liquigas I thought. Riding the whole mountain with Delgado... leaving the 2 Gaurain and FL classics in the group and fresh. Lots of possibilities for them to try something. IN the end they didn't, but IMO an unnecessary risk Liquigas took. And didn't even bother covering his ass with Perez in the back. Just in case ride with Perez there.

I'd just ridden the whole mountain with Malacarne. Nobody can do a meaningful attack then. Classics all dropped and chasing. Yes, possibly Delgado BEHIND the FLs+Gaurains, but on top not more than 10", absolute maximum. They get back to Malacarne most likely (but not immediately), attack, but too late... then cover the last hill with Ortiz. The way Liquigas rode it was really just inviting attacks, invitations that weren't accepted in the end, but still..

An attack at km 120 would have been a great opportunity for Gaurain or me. Unfortunately, Gaurain had connection Problem and I were busy. Anyway, it's just another missed chance for Lampe. I fear there will be more during the upcoming stages as it will be difficult to cover all stage from Thursday to Saturday with full attention.

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Sat May 28, 2016 6:43 pm

What a show offered by the Greatest team in the history of RSF , during the last week of Giro but everything started with the last day of 2nd week when Ortiz won the mountainous ITT.

The team managed to control the Scheers (Gaurain rx) and Lampe (Team FL) attacks during stage 16 and 18.

Then the Team Liquigas-CND (a.k.a. the most dominant team ever existed in the history of RSF/C4f) SHOW started by winning the stage 19 then 20 where Paquito Ortiz (the most dominant rider ever existed in RSF/C4F) showed his class.

Below are the classifications before last stage:

GC 1-10 positions:

1. 00:00 Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
2. 01:38 Wladimir Belli (MG Technogym)
3. 01:52 Jules Scheers (Gaurain Rx)
4. 02:58 Carlos Lampe (Team FL)
5. 04:02 Kiell Leonard (Liberty Sarténe)
6. 04:03 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
7. 04:40 Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)
8. 05:51 Joao Peixe (Big Donkey)
9. 07:37 Dario Malacarne (Liquigas-CND)
10. 09:50 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)

Green:
1. Elwyn Oxley (Team FL) : 215 points
2. Giosue Bonomi (MG Technologym) : 178 points
3. Jules Scheers (Gaurain rx) : 168 points

Mountain classification:
1. Mariano Piccoli (MG Technologym) : 149 points
2. Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND) : 107 points
3. Kimi Salonen (Liberty Sartene) : 96 points

Young riders classification:
1. 04:03 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
2. 09:50 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)
3. 13:12 Miguell David (Novo Blanco - PT)

Teams classification:
1. 00:00 Gaurain rx
2. 06:25 Team FL
3. 11:55 Big Donkey

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Sat May 28, 2016 7:38 pm

Big Donkey<17:31>: I almost won the Giro, just a few minutes missing!

Maybe next year when i Team Liquigas most probably will stop riding.

Liquigas-CND · Post by **Liquigas-CND** » Mon May 30, 2016 9:29 am

Should be pink instead of yellow!

The rest is silence!

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Mon May 30, 2016 4:05 pm

Bah, might not have won the Giro, but at least I won a stage! Viva Selwyn! And Wassberg!
Gaurain less aggressive in the mountains, but difficult too, since he was closely marked by Liqui. But maybe should have tried anyway with early attacks by helpers, if Liqui follows, he follows...or something. But had little chances of success really. FL and MG simply didn't have the leader to seriously try. But again, FL IMO should have tried to go in the early groups too. To threaten an attack, something that's scarier than the actual attack. Once the attack comes it's usually easy to react when controlling. It's when you have to be afraid of the attack that could come every second that you have to think how to manage the energy etc. Some FLs go early, make Liqui sweat. The Donkeys, not threatening enough, too far away. MG? Too obvious that he won't try anything for GC, he showed he wanted stages clearly enough, so Liqui never had to worry about that. So some FL pressure would have been needed, maybe some Gaurain pressure too.

But it was always unlikely that Ortiz would manage not to win the GC, so in the end even with more pressure etc. most likely nothing would have changed in the final result. Ortiz-Belli (seeing the result of the TT I suspect he wasn't on and had 80%? Can't see how he'd lose that much time otherwise 59", even Wassberg was faster, being on and 100% there might have put some pressure to Ortiz too)-Scheers.

Mountain jersey for MG, Piccoli, team for Gaurain, good that it wasn't decided by boring escape time gains in the end, white for MErcatone without any problems. Congrats to all of them. Red for FL, he won it on stage one with a trick sprint. Explicitly no congrats for that one of course.

Generally not a very exciting Giro, Donkey being untypically busy for work didn't help either. And officially 9 teams, practically less was clearly not the best. Expect no afternoon Giro for next year, the next logical step in leso's enlightened policy "kill the afternoon" would be no afternoon-Giro in 2017

Basically was: Liquigas controlling. MG attacking. Donkey sometimes joining. FL going for sprints. Gaurain usually waiting for the end of the stages too. LIberty chasing a bit for no reason at all most of the time. Novo often offline. Mercatone the silent one being silent, occasionally escaping, but being so silent at times you forgot he was even there. And Portugal almost always offline. As I said, not the most exciting GT.

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Tue May 31, 2016 12:43 pm

A lot written by Liquigas and Roby, so here are the final results:

General classement:

01. 00:00:00 Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
02. 00:01:38 Wladimir Belli (MG Technogym)
03. 00:01:52 Jules Scheers (Gaurain rx)
04. 00:02:58 Carlos Lampe (Team FL)
05. 00:04:02 Kiell Leonard (Liberty Sarténe)
06. 00:04:03 Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)
07. 00:04:40 Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)
08. 00:05:51 Joao Peixe (Big Donkey)
09. 00:07:37 Dario Malacarne (Liquigas-CND)
10. 00:09:50 Michele Scarponi (Mercatone-uno)

Team classement: Gaurain rx

Youth classement: Douglas Maicon (Mercatone-uno)

Points classement: Elwyn Oxley (Team FL)

Mountain classement: Mariano Piccoli (MG Technogym)

Stage wins by riders:

3 - Paquito Ortiz (Liquigas-CND)
2 - Giosuè Bonomi (MG Technogym)
2 - Theodor Jetson (Liberty Sarténe)
2 - Gaston Letrouffion (Gaurain Rx)
2 - Elwyn Oxley (Team FL)
2 - Mariano Piccoli (MG Technogym)
2 - Jules Scheers (Gaurain Rx)
1 - Selwyn Cayetano (Big Donkey)
1 - Gica Hagi (Gaurain Rx)
1 - Marius Lacatus (Liberty Sarténe)
1 - Alexis Lantin (Gaurain Rx)
1 - Fabio Roscioli (MG Technogym)
1 - Ingemar Wassberg (Big Donkey)

Stage wins by Teams:

6 - Gaurain Rx
5 - MG Technogym
3 - Liberty Sarténe
3 - Liquigas-CND
2 - Big Donkey
2 - Team FL

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