Giro 2015 Afternoon 15h

[Robyklebt]

Second rest day, hardest and in theory decisive week coming up. But it looks very much like a done deal for Liquigas right now.

Veracruz
Martin 56"
Peterlin 2'10"
Dourado 3'16
Betancourt 4'25"
Maimonides 4'56"

the riders within 5 minutes.
Martin the closest, but the one most likely to be dropped early too, and gaining time in flat is not an option too. Not even sure when Martin lost all that much time, probably when he was offline? Can't access the results on the rest day either, full rest it seems, no analysis allowed.
Peterlin 2'10, he more dangerous, he could win time on some stages, but more likely lose time too on others. And if Ulises is set on gaining time on Peterlin, he should gain time until the end. In the end it looks more like fighting for second than really threatening Ulises.
Dourado just there without being a real threat either, same strenghts as Veracruz, just a bit less, and a weaker team, I thought I had a chance to gain time back yesterday, expecting Croce to be unfit, the way he rode maybe he wasn't. Although looking at his TT he should have been... maybe just a little and decent help. The opposite of my star helper Taxi...
Betancourt as no 2 maybe with more freedom? But not 4'25" and it would mean "give up" Peterlin, so... forget it.
Maimonides at almost 5', as I said days ago looks irrelevant too. Should gain time on Peterlin overall, but with Elvis and Betancourt as helpers doesn't look like enough to overtake Peterlin. So overtaking Ulises looks more unlikely still.

Ulises hasn't won yet of course, get too cocky and he could run into trouble, but with Ulises skill and the way Liquigas has been riding so far he is the clear favorite. Because Liquigas has been riding very well so far. Not always perfect, but in the end with the favorite everybody watches you more closely and catches more of your mistakes... he made less of them than I did so far I'd say. Passive and reactive Alk said yesterday... not sure what Liquigas is supposed to do then. Plus it isn't even true, he's been very proactive at times, putting in the safety tempo rider towards the end of stages when it was necessary, covering the Alk attempts at the farmer trick in the first week perfectly, not biting to the general attempts to go under reg either normally. Then for the rest of course he has to react. The biggest mistake he did so far even was when for once he didn't think about defending but tried to attack, which then killed his team for the next day, which resulted in some time loss, but nothing too tragic. If he continues to ride that way... should have no problem, it might even need 2 big mistakes to lose this, not just one.
Was planning to say exactly when and where I'll attack and drop Veracruz now, but I'm too stupid to find the stages, so can't do that. Basically every day though.

[Alkworld]

Passive and reactive Alk said yesterday... not sure what Liquigas is supposed to do then.

Nothing else of course. What I meant was, that with this rider and the strong team, he just was and is the big favorite. Most others only get their chance by being active and attacking, which obviously more prone to backfire.

[Liquigas-CND]

Hello,

As I said at the beginning of the GIRO, Team Liquigas-CND is riding this GIRO only for Ulises Veracruz.
Without having the ambition to win a stage i already won 2 stages which is more than satisfying for my team.

`Regarding the following stages :
- I see Moses/Fran winning 16th and 18th ; even i expect donkey wants to sieb Martin to advance in the GC and Black may want to win the stages then Moses and Fran may face some problems...
- and Hans/Eduardo/Dourado winning 19th and 20th;
- 17th and 21st are for FL if he wants to win them.

Nothing is decided in the GC fight:
Martin is close even you all consider him irrelevant, I am not disconsidering anybody.
Dourado is waiting for my mistakes...same as Moses and Fran.

Brgs

[luques]

Dourado and Moses are clearly the favo.

Actually the favo n 1 is Tsvetkov but I think I may let someone other the victory

[team fl]

Review week 2

Week two of the Giro 15h edition brought a lot of change. Stage winners changed, Rosa wearers changed. And Liquigas seems to think "yes, we can" finally. But enough of stupid references. Liquigas is not Obama and his second term (-> second week) hasn't been over yet. Although some might wish. Anyway, after two weeks, the possible outcomes of the different classements have cleared out a bit. But has it become boring? No sir! Although Ulises Veracruz is now almost 1 min ahead of Alexander Martin, has won a stage himself and is even more than 2 min of No. 3 in the current GC standing, Fran Peterlin, the upcoming stages still offer lots of opportunities for the rest of the pack. And so far, the race for the stage wins has become even more interesting. No secure bunch sprints in week two, bold moves in hard stages.

Anyway, Team of week 2 is Liquigas-CND clearly with two stages wins (Veracruz and Markovic) and finally the Maglia Rosa at the end of stage 15. Before that, Vinicius Dourado brought the Maglia Rosa into week 2 but lost it to Moses Maimonides when the latter won stage 12. The wearer changed again after the ITT, when Alexander Martin played out his time trial skills to get it. And while Liquigas-CND is team of the week, Alkworld wasn't far from getting that award too with two stage wins, the Maglia Rosa for two days and a lot of action. And at least he will get the award for being most aggressive team in week 2 with Maimonides being the most aggressive rider.

Besides those two teams, there was less to write about Team FL, who won the stage to Jesolo with Lichtenstein but missed some opportunities before. At least, Fran Peterlin is currently defending a podium placement in the GC and still wearing the red jersey of the points classement leader, followed closely by Moses Maimonides. The mountain classement is lead by Hans Linna from Black-Star. Only one point short is Ulises Veracruz though, who could even win two classements in the end. The youth classement should be decided as Toni Kiiskinnen seems to be too far ahead of everybody else in this category. In the end, Benahsene, the lad on place 2, has been two "green behind his ears" with only being 22 by now.

And before I forget it, Adamar Papa from escartinos won the ITT on Saturday. So the only teams without a stage win so far are r Taka est nul and MokotowWarszawa who is still waiting for its first race win ever.

The current standings:

General classement:

01. 00:00 Ulises Veracruz (Liquigas-CND)
02. 00:56 Alexander Martin (r Taka est nul)
03. 02:10 Fran Peterlin (Team FL)
04. 03:16 Vinicius Dourado (Big Donkey)
05. 04:25 Paul Betancourt (Team FL)
06. 04:56 Moses Maimonides (Alkworld)
07. 05:12 Massimo Croce (Liquigas-CND)
08. 06:18 Ecuardo Saavedra (escartinos)
09. 06:25 Elvis Bogdanic (Team FL)
10. 07:05 Hans Linna (Black-Star)

Points classement:

01. 244 Fran Peterlin (Team FL)
02. 242 Moses Maimonies (Alkworld)
03. 172 Eric Lichtenstein(Team FL)
04. 143 Jiri Topal (Big Donkey)
05. 126 Hans Linna (Black-Star)

Mountain classement:

01. 62 Hans Linna (Black-Star)
02. 61 Ulises Veracruz (Liquigas-CND)
03. 44 Massimo Croce (Liquigas-CND)
04. 43 Francisco Goya (Alkworld)
05. 39 VInicius Dourado (Big Donkey)

Youth classement:

01. 08:27 Toini Kiiskinen (Black-Star)
02. 14:35 Hamdi Benahsene (Vitesse)
03. 21:16 Domenikos Theotokopoulos (Alkworld)

Team classement:

01. 00:00 Big Donkey
03. 01:05 Team FL
04. 02:48 Liquigas-CND
05. 05:41 Alkworld
05. 05:53 Black-Star

Stage wins by teams:

5 – Team FL (+1 in week 2)
3 – Black-Star
2 - Alkworld (+2)
2 - Liquigas-CND (+2)
1 – Big Donkey
1 – Vitesse
1 - escartinos (+1)

Stage wins by riders:

3 – Eric Lichtenstein (Team FL)
2 – Hans Linna (Black-Star)
2 – Fran Peterlin (Team FL)
1 – Alfred Baumann (Vitesse)
1 – Big Donkey (TTT)
1 – Roger Linna (Black-Star)
1 - Moses Maimonides (Alkworld)
1 - Dejan Markovic (Liquigas-CND)
1 - Newton Mendoca (Alkworld)
1 - Adamar Papa (r Taka est nul)
1 - Ulises Veracruz (Liquigas-CND)

Preview week 3

The last, the final, the decisive week! And lots of opportunities. Week 3 starts with, at least in my opinion - the hardest stage during this years' Giro. The following flat stage is also not flat only and the three stages before the final ride to Milano have lots to offer too looking something like this: ____/\_ ; ____/\/\/ ; ____/\/ with dirt road. So I think we really can look forward excitedly how this years Afternoon Giro (the one and only) will end. Is Liquigas-CND able to defend the Maglia Rosa? Will somebody try a risky move? Maimonides? Dourado? Or will even Fran Peterlin be able to make it a close race? What about the Black-Star climbing duo? Make sure to follow the race as all these questions will be answered in week 3!

[team fl]

Week 3 started hefty with stage 16 and around 4'500 m altitude difference. Stage was won by Vinicius Dourade from Big Donkey, who joins the group of stage winners that is lead by two FL riders, Eric Lichtenstein and since yesterday also Fran Peterlin with 3 wins. Although his last win seems a bit doubtful, it had a huge impact in the fight for red.

Meanwhile, the GC seems to be decided it nothing surprising happens on the last four stages. Liquigas-CND has been doing a marverlous job so far for the man in the Maglia Rosa, Ulises Veracruz. He's already more than two and a half minutes a head of the rest. But then again, this years Afternoon Giro is full of action and certainly not boring. So there's still enough room for some more moves by the other teams.

[flockmastoR]

was was doubtful concerning his win?

[team fl]

was was doubtful concerning his win?

The sprint. Ask the Donkey or my sitter rexon

[flockmastoR]

was was doubtful concerning his win?

The sprint. Ask the Donkey or my sitter rexon

Well I saw the sprint. Would have done the same probably. Lichtenstein pulling Fran? thats really the problem?

[team fl]

was was doubtful concerning his win?

The sprint. Ask the Donkey or my sitter rexon

Well I saw the sprint. Would have done the same probably. Lichtenstein pulling Fran? thats really the problem?

I've only seen it via app later in the evening, which is like I'ven not seen it. Wasn't it a trick sprint somehow?

[flockmastoR]

just saw the "replay" maybe missed the first 50m there, looked ok for me, just pulling, but can be wrong here

[Robyklebt]

Trick sprint of course.

[Robyklebt]

Last 2 mountain stages, today the only real multi mountain stage. Dourado won in Aprica, which made the team manager very happy, winning the classic, even if it's fairly new, even the Donkey saw the first on in the real Giro, Mortirolo stage is always nice. Now only 2'42" back, but looks like too much really.
Yesterday a chance for some more time gain, maybe. Follow Moses, hope Ulises can't follow, didn't work. But ok, would have been 15" or so. Other option was to let Moses go, follow Ulises, hope he is following me, Moses could have won 30" or more, depending on what Juscelino does in front, the good point of that would have been that it might have induced another attack of Moses-paranoia, which somehow could have helped me.

[Vuvuzela]

Hey, does anybody need a sitter for the stage today? I know it's probably to late because it already started, but maybe someone wants me to sit?
-> PM me

[flockmastoR]

Congratulations to Liquigas!!!

If there wasn't the history of Veracruz, nobody would wonder, its him winning the Giro. But after Pais Vasco and Tirreno I didnt give him much of a chance. I am happy he decided to go for his chance the first time!

[Robyklebt]

And he rode well this Liquigas. Don't like him anymore now.

[cataracs]

You should have sitted me vuvu! I don't know what happend yesterday but If I was there I wouldn't let the peloton goes autotempo for anyreason just because I'm not classless unlike all of you!
anyway the tour in general was shit, a chanceless Alk for gc doing shit mostly everyday and blocking the guys with chances, FL riding for Fran in a weird way without a team...the tour would have been a lot better without them espsially Alk...
gw Liquigas for the tour deserved I would say and easy.

[Liquigas-CND]

Thanks to all for this nice tour.
Unfortunately we were few but enough to have enjoyable afternoons.
I was not an easy tour for me, ALK and FL made me work hard in the 1st and 2nd week and i dont like this at all, then the BIG Donkey brought the fear when Dourado took 35 sec in only 1 day but my team was strong enough to support a very strong leader like Ulises.

I am waiting for Dauphine/Suisse and next GTs .... without many chances for GC because Ulises is to old unfortunately.


Thanks to all for this nice tour and praise ULISES VERACRUZ!!!

[Pokemon Club]

Thanks to all for this nice tour.
Unfortunately we were few but enough to have enjoyable afternoons.
I was not an easy tour for me, ALK and FL made me work hard in the 1st and 2nd week and i dont like this at all, then the BIG Donkey brought the fear when Dourado took 35 sec in only 1 day but my team was strong enough to support a very strong leader like Ulises.

I am waiting for Dauphine/Suisse and next GTs .... without many chances for GC because Ulises is to old unfortunately.


Thanks to all for this nice tour and praise ULISES VERACRUZ!!!

Too old ? A rider is never too old

[Liquigas-CND]

Too old for vuelta where his tt would matter and too expensive for TdF where his tt wouldnt matter.

[Robyklebt]

Good enough for TdS or Daupiné I guess. And TdF even with only 14 km TT he still gains time on most others. And 87 mountain too, so while he is expensive he's also good. With or without TT.

Dourado second in the end. Bah, thought I might end up third or fourth or whatever, since my riders on Saturday decided to spend us much energy as they could. And the donkey once he saw it thought it was ok, could have maybe saved 50-100 each by taking them out, but what for. Then not sure what happened yesterday, Donkey after suffering for 100 km just couldn't do more, off to bed, slept 14 hours, still tired though. The group in the end came through, dammit, the big chance for Cesare to win one for Italy and the manager leaves him alone! Doesn't matter. And pretty sure Peterlin could easily have gotten GC place 2 yesterday, even with me online, since I had nothing with energy... Cesare with 900, but escaping, Grabkowski 800, Vargas 700, the rest... but Peterlin obviously thought that Dourado could keep second place. Nice. But well, wasn't really all that eager to finish second. First the goal, then second or fourth only matters because of the money. The problem I have with the idiocy of letting the group go to autotempo isn't really about my classification (since I wasn't going to win the Giro anyway, and Topal wasn't going to win the sprint in Milano either), just the principle. We always hear about the unfairness of offliners, they dare to "DISTORT THE RACE", by making tempo! SCANDALOUS. Or they attack, even worse! What horrible people these offliners are.... well the lesson from saturday really was: next time I'm off, TdF most likely, REGARDLESS OF MY CHANCES, put in Cesare the make green tempo for 100 km, then put in another one to make green tempo for 50 km. 2 dead riders is better than 7. I destroy somebodies race for nothing? Destroy yes, for nothing no, for fit riders. The problem are not onliners or offliners but people who lack class. Second lesson of course is put everybody on green, like Grabkowski and Cesare, then riders are not all dead.

The rest of the Giro... actually quite happy with my form setting. Tobler very early, 3 reasons. 1 Age: Most likely downtraining sooner or later. Better have a 75 guy once, than regularly a 73-74. 2 Alk-FL. Not knowing what kind of race Liquigas was planning to ride, wanted to be able to minimize the potentially big time losses to Alk-FL. Or then use Tobler for some fun countering. Turned out wasn't necessary, Liquigas took good care of the 2 jokers with their flat dreams So had nothing in the end, Tobler low form, but even with better form... he's just not good enough when climbers start siebing and 75+ guys chasing. 3. More time gain in TTT. Worked, doubt it makes a big difference...Then Dourado topform on the Mortirolo, that payed off, stage win, Taxi Cervinia, but by then had different plans, try attacks, stupid ones...
I never really had a chance to win this in retrospect, the opening never really came. Some small ones I missed. The stage I thought I could get some time though turned out to be almost the worst, MAdonna, somehow I was convinced Croce would be way under reg, at least 100.... but the guy was way way too strong. Taxi was dropped (who started with too much energy but then was the victim of special helping tactics, forget to help the Taxi..... pff, and no fighting) That day had planned to win time, nothing.... Some time on the Mortirolo, some time again to Cervinia, Finestre possibly could have gotten another 10" but never enough to even come close to the win. Liquigas rode well, of course he profited from the other GC guys "blocking" each other by having different plans, but that is normal. He probably had it harder than other GC favorites, because usually you get the climbers who work a bit for stages, wiht Black star and escartinos Liquigas surely didn't get that, those 2 tactical geniuses regularly attacked with flat riders on the stages that looked good for their leaders. Pretty happy that in the end escartinos climber won 0 stages and Linna managed not to win the mountain jersey. Too bad Linna the climber won the 2 early mountain stages though... yeah yeah, in BS case I know, he had a horrible team behind his 2 climbers... so would risk fewer helpers after each hill, but a minimum of effort to try to win some more with a climber like Linna... at least try? No guarantee it works of course.

Generally a good Giro, too bad Vitesse ended up not riding anymore (problems at work most likely), Mokotov off a lot, and Taka too. More Taka would have made it spicier for sure. Some more teams of course would have been nice. Donkey plans to ride the Tour as well, Taxi the sole leader. Probably Topal for sprints. And whatever I have in between.... stuff like Cesare, Lakhdar, Selwyn and Vargas... we'll see. Cannon fodder, yes, but we need cannon fodder too.

[team fl]

Giro is over, not much to say anymore. Most of the things have been said already. In the end, it was an almost uncontested win by Veracruz from Liquigas-CND, as the team rode very well and actively for its captain. A "highlight" in week three was of course the inglorious stage 20 with autotempo in the peloton. Won't discuss this further though.

For Team FL, this years Giro was pretty succesful with 6 stage wins and Peterlin winning the points classement as well as finishing on the GC podium with the 3rd place. More stage wins could have been possible, esp. the two missed sprints for Lichtenstein, but in the end, the team management is very happy about the overall result.

[team fl]

Ah yes, and btw, just because I read a discussion about that in today's race chat among the Donkey and Alkworld:

I wrote explicitly in my messages to my sitters that a) no trick sprint at stage 17 and b) ride for a bunch sprint on stage 21. Nothing about an attack with Fran there. Obviously the sitters improvised a bit there... I am not particularly unhappy with my sitter, but I just wanted to have cleared that situation. Anyway, I would have been okay too with a Mokotow win. Like his attitude though and probably would have continued riding for a bunch sprint.