Afternoon Giro 2013, 14h

[team fl]

The stage itself was cool yesterday, indeed. Only the sprint was not. But also as a good advice to Brath. The random writing stuff after (or during the sprint) helped. Really calmed down a lot after doing that. But still: without this "incident" Benni could have 3, with a bit more luck during the first part of the Giro even 4 stage wins already. Anyway, now only the Maglia Rossa is important. Everything else would be a surprise right now, like another stage win.

[AlmavivaItalia]

The stage itself was cool yesterday, indeed. Only the sprint was not. But also as a good advice to Brath. The random writing stuff after (or during the sprint) helped. Really calmed down a lot after doing that. But still: without this "incident" Benni could have 3, with a bit more luck during the first part of the Giro even 4 stage wins already. Anyway, now only the Maglia Rossa is important. Everything else would be a surprise right now, like another stage win.

if this "Brath" is myself, unfortunately i didn't follow the afternoon stage.

[Robyklebt]

I think he referred to the discussion we had earlier. Frustrations. Since the sprint fucked up all his plans (basically a bug, from what he said the settings were correct, the riders just did other things) he was frustrated. He then did this he says: "The random writing stuff after (or during the sprint) helped." To me he wrote as usual actually...

[team fl]

To me he wrote as usual actually...

Seems it comes to me naturally

[Quick]

I'm sorry for this terrible onlinequote at the giro.

[Robyklebt]

Why, was ok... pretty sure you'd have liked to be here yourself today.

Today.... ape disappointed. Probably shouldn't have done anything yesterday, then could have won today and yesterday But ok... Today didn't ride well, team too dead, yes, but could have done more of it. Knew that my only chance for another stage win was an early attack normally. So should have tried something, didn't, was always a step behind. Should have sent Tasman in the escape... didn't want to since he wanted to win tomorrow.. brilliantly killed him anyway later. Or at least Zibi with Legrand... that thinking too long and finally to slow to make him hang. Then missed the moments for the attacks, was thinking about it but hoped that others would weaken Quick a bit furhter, wait, finally all too late.
But the only one who tried something today was Gaurain finally. But alone against Quick he never had a chance... but he wasn't the only one who actually had to try to weaken Quick, since Quick was also the stage favorite. fresim, FL too had to try to weaken Quick, try to make him use his riders early, try to go early in the hope of getting a stage.
fresim: Yes, fresim can say he doesn't have the team, won enough stages, and has to defend the podium... ok, but sending 2 guys, Tobin or Solow plus puller.. yes, Tobin-Solow have sprint.. but he's not winning with them tomorrow either I guess. Sacrifice one... put the pressure on Quick. Maybe attack early with Keynes? A risk, yes, but one that can pay. Can win another stage, can fight for blue still (maybe?), can win the whole Giro if the sitter PTT does his usual thing and relies to much on others in chasing... Most likely he wouldn't have won it of course, but for the stage.. why not? Who is going to chase except Quick? And Quick has a minute to Preidler, but can't afford to kill Melotte to early either, Xhonneux dead, Melotte not 100% fit IMO, Bech no downhill... At least put the pressure on, if then Quick doesn't let the group with Tobin go.... as far as the group we had went... still can not attack, or just try with climber 2.
FL: In the end 2 climbers were a waste in his case. One would have been enough for Benni, the second one was just there finally. Today he had to try. Not fit? FL saw yesterdays race, he knew Momyshuly was dead, and Trapani most likely not at 1000, (861 at the start.. or 862?) Quick wasn't 100% fit either. And... not fit? What was he thinking to be able to get by waiting then? Nothing. Or what he got, 5-8, defending or getting 8+9 in GC. Like last sunday, he really had to attack today, it was his stage to try to get a win. Ok, last sunday the excuse: sitter, and FL didn't see the day before, so didn't know the situation exactly. Today: Sitter. But FL saw yesterdays stage. He should have told the sitter: Antiga in the escape, Antiga and puller, and go, then jump with one or even both climbers. N O T H I N G to lose. Green? If Trapani follows the FLs.... unlikely that I do that actually, but yeah, could be an option for me to try to get to fight for the GC...but if that happens FL can still abort the attack, can still force Trapani to ride early, can still strike a deal, regardless of the advantage we have at the end, FL gets the win... (A deal I would have taken if he had attacked, I was on the wheel, and he had helpers in front (and me too ideally, but I fucked that up as well) And in the end, even IF Trapani gets 12+25 points for all intermediates and the stage win today, and overtakes Benni... tomorrow very likely Benni would get it back. The danger of losing green was so minimal compared to the possible benefits an early attack had that I don't understand why FL didn't just tell the sitter: 1) Follow Fowler with Antiga and Fargas. If possible save Fargas until the climb, if not ok, ride with him. Depending on the advantage, go with Roy+Eddie at the Campolongo or San Pellegrino. Ride Ride ride and hope to get the stage.
For both of them getting that was the most promising way to get a stage, why didn't they even try? Ok, I didn't try either today... So finally it was a siebing countersiebing match between Gaurain and Quick.. Gaurain tried, but finally couldn't do it. But didn't fail, he tried, the guys who failed were us, the 3 stage hopefuls, Petit Singe-fresim-FL, who simply did nothing. And got place 2-3-5, which is worthless.
Then of course today Squeeze deserves a special chapter. He always rode rather badly from the peloton.. .chasing groups he had no reason to chase... but today? Giau, he puts Antunes in Tempo 81, then goes offline. Before, you could say he was defending his GC place, not in a clever or sensible way, but that's what he might have been trying. Today his action made no sense at all... since he had nothing to defend really, and nothing to gain either. In the end being offline ended up losing time and a place in GC (that was hard to lose actually that way), must be Karma... hihi. But while usually he just rode badly (IMO) but his actions were somehow explainable, todays moves were not. My question of course... was it Squeeze himself or a sitter? Since he mentioned in the pre race interveiw that he wouldn't be there. Anyway, with this asshole move he basically blocked the whole race. Quick didn't have to use Melotte or anybody else, attacks were pretty pointless at that point because THEN Melotte would have easily gotten the bad attackers back in 2-3 km... and while of course Quick would still have been the favorite and probable winner even without Squeeze tempo... he would at least have had to fight a bit for it. Could have been challenged, since there were a few classics stronger than Bech and Dekkers at that point (Sekiguchi, Benni, Maréchal, and Tasman as well) Yes, not THAT much stronger, so not a huge danger at this point, but still... he would have at least had to worry a bit, like this he could just sit back and enjoy the show.

Highlight of the day though Gaurain winning the team classement by 1" grrr wasn't intersted at first, but when he pulled the Quick classics immediately (and if there Squeeze had gone out, PTT lazyness could have been a big mistake... but ok, didn't happen, so a moot point) grrrrr.. ok, now we fight for it... thought about offering a falling back by Tasman later at first, but no no, let's ride this out! 1" for Gaurain, grrr.

Tomorrow: Sprint without Abe, at least I think it's an Abe. So favorite ABC if he's on? Or an escape... but I might chase some escapes too actually. Avranescu wants to win now, just needs to follow the right wheel in the end! Ok, maybe not... but might be chasing escapes if I'm not in them.

[gaurain rx]

So

Quick winner of this Giro, Aloo maglia rosa since stage 9 (I guess)... Never had troubles, controlled the opponents and dug the gap when he had the opportunity to (in 2 of the 3 most difficult moutain stageà . Team was strong, did his job on flat (a bit), Hilly (a lot) and moutain (99% of it) to secure the leader and fav' victory! So nothing to discuss really, Quick deserves it by far. GW Aloo also gets 3 stagewin, symbol of his Giro domination!

Then at 2 minutes arrived Georg Preidler. I, Of course, expected him to be there. Gaurain fought, mmm not that much actually, but not with a lot of strategy or ideas to beat Quick. As example this attack at 3km of the top of the Jafferau, just to see what happens Only one big mistake : no block on the Galibier, which was a key moment in this Giro, Aloo taking more than 50 secs to all of his opponents.

Third lands fresim riders, John MaynardKeynes. He performed well, I even think he's the 3rd performer (after Aloo and Trapani) on the summit arrivals but he lost to much times in the time trials. He could have even get the stage on the Tre Cime di Lavaredo, but as for Preidler in the Galibier, no block killed his chances. Anyway, he already got a stagewin in Altopiano del Montasio after a brillant sprint.

4th is Michele Trapani. He rode a great Giro. Too limited in Time trial to compete for the gc final win, he did 2 great successfull escapes (100% of wins when he attacked from far) in moutainous stage. Jafferau and Val Martello are for him!

5th Sébastien Melotte, the whole time helper for Aloo. He had the opportunity to attack in the begin of the Giro, to make the other climbers work but on the hardest stage, (and also ue to his low reg), he was really dedicated on the protection of Aloo rosa and stage chances.

6th we have Javier Recio. Passive climber, had to protect most of th time his leader John so 6th is quite good for him. 7th is
Steve McQueen. He did a tremendous start of Giro and finished first of the fav' in the first TT. Then he fell down in the classification, due to early form I guess and also to some offline moment of his manager.

8th and 9th is the Fl climber duo, respectively Roy Lichtenstein and Eddie Sixpence. They did a great work for Benni but in the mountain stage, I found them too passive. Ok, they both have a quite low reg but they produced only one attack (Roy actually) in the first moutain stage. That's imo not enough in 3 weeks, as they were not that dangerous for gc.

10th Rafal Wolski, the young jersey winner. He did a quite anonymous Giro. And then 11th and last of the climbers Rakhat Momyshuli who suffered in the last moutain stage after the tremendous work he did to help his leader to get the stagewin the day before.

Stefano Benni for Rossa, with a little margin (13 points). Here was no match with Maréchal (too much stage where Benni was able to get rid and to resist to the hill sprinter) but a way more tight fight with the climbers. Hopefully for fl, no climber rode 100% for this jersey (I mean, trying to get some points on intersprints (even if Aloo did it once or twice for bonisecs I guess) sprinting for every position) or he could have stolen the jersey. But again, deserved jersey for fl : Benni was really impressive in the first 2 weeks and fl did a really good job for him.

Robbie Fowler got Blue. Maybe the only one who really wanted it (Cost at one moment attacked for it but as we will see, he disapeared after 1,5 week) even if I also thought Aloo would go for it. Fowler was definitely (with Narcisse de Pellevoisin) the escaper of this GIro. I think squezze did a good job to get blue, also cause he had to fight a bit to go in the escapes in the begin of Giro as he was close for rosa in Gc.

Abc for white and Gaurain for tc is more for the record, as ABC had 0 countenders for white (Squezze choosed fast to use Anthunes as an helper) and tc fight only began the second last day before the end of the Giro.

Stage also quite spread between us : 5 quick, 4fl, 3 fresim, 2 Singe/Squeezze/Gaurain, 1 ABC/Cost/Samu... Imo what we could expected from the start (one more me, one less fresim maybe) and also not always where it was planned to be (not that a big Benni win festival for fl (sprint system didn't help) but some escapes also)!

Participation imo negative point. 9 at the start, mostly all there in the begin, only samu was coming from time to time, then Cost (still going in escapes but then going off) and ABC were more and more off. So second part of the Giro with 6 was too few. 10-11 regular manager would have been nice. But I have to thanks everybody for this fair Giro : Collaboration in grupetto, no gc attack on flat stage, no strange collaboration (even if squezze tempo was sometimes weird ) ... So all was ok on how the way goes which is nice. Then of course some vivid chat (in which I was often involved I have to admit) but that's part of 3 weeks playing together!

Thanks guys for this Giro.

[Robyklebt]

Ah, the ape as an egomaniac writes more about his team

1 M: Trapani: 2 stages, did what he had to do. IMO a good enough race for him. Too passive in the last day, but otherwise ok. More was difficult here, GC wise.
2 R. Avranescu: Big big big failure and mistake to take him. The few seconds he saved in the TTT were not worth carrying a pretty much useless rider, who only could load, around for 3 weeks. His refusal to train flat... yes, with 35 even as 50-80 or so he isn't hyper-useful, he still can't ride too much, but at least you could think about using him. With 50-75? Useless. Should have gone for Buttu or Bochini.
3 N. Legrand: He tried, with Firenze form the leader early, once managed to stay with Benni... too bad it was a Maréchal day. (Or was that the Xhonneux day?) Of course anti apeism by FL who missed a km, so the Benni-Legrandgroup was caught... but ok, would have been place 2-3 anyway. Involved in all Trapani wins I think, good as a helper, less as a leader, and with less than brilliant training in May. But had to be there of course, and did well enough. But actually more the second part than the first.
4 F. Mollagholipour: Did ok IMO. Not seen often, 100 form last day wasted. Was in the attack once, then suffered for days... No reg. As I said, pretty invisible, but still was good to have him, always good to have a flat insurance
5 R. Momyshuly: He stage win chances were early, until Galibier, didn't take them, Jafferau was for Trapani after all. Then good help for Trapanis stage in Val Martello. Did what he could with his reg and in his role finally
6 N.de Pellevoisin: The reg man with mountain, so was attacking rather often, not succesfull though. OK, the Val Martello win he was part of that. Happy with him though obviously
7 D. Sekiguchi: Late form, and he was one of the strongest if not the strongest in the second Dolomites stage. Too bad the manager didn't use it. So a bit wasted finally, should have been bolder and send him up the road that day.
8 A. Tasman: Even if he never really had a chance to win anything, right decision to take him. Don't know who the opponents are.. Benni and Maréchal of course less than perfect for Abel.
9 C. Zibi: Did well, wrong rider in the escape the last day, but second reg-guy. Attacked a bit, did good in the TTT, he'll be there in France again very likely.

Finally not unhappy with the team, but not too happy either. No sprinter, but with Avranescu basically I was carrying another dead weight around, and since Tasman was a bit similar.... that made 2 finally. One too many at least, seriously restricted my attacking options. Yes, Tasman could have tried a bit in the dolomites, but give me Buttu instead of Avranescu and I have an attacking option more, which might have been useful, first week for escapes too maybe.

Generally, mostly agree with Gaurain. Especially about not enough managers. Last days got worse and worse. To start with only 9, which isn't enough, then after ok activity early, then less and less, ABC, Samurais, Cost basically weren't seen anymore late.