Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

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Recien Nacido
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Recien Nacido » Sun May 16, 2010 1:06 pm

sry sry for german or i cant speak englisch i give my best or its not good . i hope its ok

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Lizard » Sun May 16, 2010 2:55 pm

Recien Nacidos wrote:Und danke das wenigstens einer anerkennt das ich das mit Branco gut gemacht habe ^^
Wizards Cycling wrote:-2 for pitiful in group, +2 for victory and tactics in the end.
Just for the record.

Oh, and just to make you GET IT: I didn´t want the maglia rosa as I said, so stop saying I´m upset that I didn´t get it, I wasn´t interested and I´m a fairly good loser to honor your tactics in the end, because these I never said are bad. So stop lying about me, thanks.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Recien Nacido » Sun May 16, 2010 5:17 pm

ich habe keine ahnung was du da sagst aber denke mal wirst gestern schon mit den plus 2 gewürdigt haben und damit sry an dich wizzi^^

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Lizard » Sun May 16, 2010 5:27 pm

Pardon, hier Übersetzung (ab jetzt immer mit Übersetzung bei mir dann):

-2, weil ich das Gruppenverhalten lächerlich finde, +2 für den Sieg und die gute Taktik zu Rennende, soviel Anerkennung soll sein.

Und, um es nochmal verständlich zu machen: Ich habe nicht gesagt, dass ich Rosa will, wollte es auch nicht, also bitte unterstelle mir nicht mir, dass ich verärgert darüber bin, nicht reingezogen worden zu sein. Darüber hinaus seh ich mich zumindest insofern als einen guten Verlierer, dass ich neben persönlichen Differenzen wenigstens das strategische Geschick im Ende zu honorieren weiß, ich habe auch nie behauptet, dass du keinen Schimmer vom Spiel hast. Also bitte nicht mehr deshalb Lügen erzählen.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by team fl » Mon May 17, 2010 8:35 am

I am sorry, for not beeing online so often. Unfortunatley it's getting worse this week. Only day I have time to play will be Friday, perhaps Thursday too.

Saturday was special. Didn't like the race and when I left, I had a very persuasive offer to go offline and leave the stage. Anyhow, I won't do anything to mess with the stage results or the classement. This means (if I'm not there and I haven't found a sitter) my riders will only follow and do nothing else.

Thanks for your understanding.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 17, 2010 10:59 am

waah, that looks fun...

Sprinter stage with no FL and no Gaurain? Unless they found sitters... mmhh.. wäää.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by team fl » Mon May 17, 2010 11:01 am

Robyklebt wrote:waah, that looks fun...

Sprinter stage with no FL and no Gaurain? Unless they found sitters... mmhh.. wäää.
Bergwerk will do it for me today. Told him to go for a sprint if you do as well :)
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 17, 2010 11:08 am

Good. And tell him that I'm a bit tired of being the first one in tempo with my 91 sprint as well...
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Zentaron » Mon May 17, 2010 2:35 pm

Hm, is there a sitter for Gaurain now?
If not, i can maybe look a bit. But i ride the parallel one-day-race, so it's not the best solution.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon May 17, 2010 4:02 pm

After the first week:

So far I like the race, ok, Ticos will probably start to go on my nerves sometimes in the second week, but for the moment no problem. Only thing I don't like is:

BayernPower
Gaurain
Robyklebt

The 3 only guys that have given a red number so far, everybody else ignores it, too egomaniac too follow other teams?

Bis jetzt alles ok, Ticos wird mir wohl bald auf die Nerven gehen, wie immer, mehr als 10 TAge schwer, momentan noch nciht, Feld gefällt mir. Einziges Problem, ausser den 3 da oben gibt niemand eine rote Nummer.


GC

Branco: In front, now his week will come, including Monte Grappa, that's where he has to gain time to have a chance. I say he won't have any but still worth trying. Jetzt kommt Brancos Woche, da muss er Zeit holen, bis Monte Grappa, wenn er eine Chance haben will. Klebt sagt er wird keine haben, aber versuchen sollte er es ja trotzdem.

Aldeia: Already first of the climbers, now the favorite, would get *****. In fact almost can start defending already,
Caramelli 37" behind Aldeia, difficult, but podium chances good. The team is good, not sure how it will be with the fitness, but could put Ticos on the defensive ****
Molgugge: Same time as Caramelli, but lost time by being offline. Kitty offline too much, when on fairly good, but don't really know him too well, Tirreno he was good. ***
Gamov: 59" behind Aldeia, Roby personally happy with that, ok, could be 15" less in the last 2 days, but no problem. Expected more time loss in the TTT, so ok. + is Buonarroti and the reg, - is the minute behind and the rest of the team behind Guggisberg ****
Heinhardt: 1'03" Thought he would be a bit ahead thanks to the TTT. lack of team in the mountain a problem, reg maybe too, but on the other hand probably will be less controlled than the ones before him. ***
Sneijder 2'02" Should be out normally, can be podium, but difficult to do more. But what counts for Heinhardt counts for him too. *
Puzanov: 2'45" The big loser of the first week. Seems interested in the green jersey. Otherwise.. excellent rider, but too far back. *

Aldeia, Caramelli, Gamov, looks mostly between those 3, with Heinhardt the most likely surprise. Podium could be the same, both Caramelli and Gamov have the team to basically assure them of the podium, if they want. Question will be if they want the podium or try the win.

Mountain:

Who cares? Roller :D But with Puzanov interested could be hard. Then Aldeia and Gamov will probably automatically get many points...

Points:

One missed sprint, so the sprinters seem out basically. Especially since there will be some flat stages where they have no chances. Branco, Clausen, Teodosic the favorites, Nicolosi maybe already too far back. Branco maybe depends a bit how seriously he takes his GC. Sprinters still chances, but will be very difficult.

Young riders

gesperrt b
Verunga
Gössner

Roby clearly for Verunga... gesperrt b, please, with such a name.. Gössner a smaller problem... a women, wäääää. Right now gesperrt b with 1' to Verunga...then Gössner another 21" back. But Verunga 84 mountain b 82, Gössner 80 but with 75 TT... Bayern with the team, Verunga the better rider.. will be interesting, depends a lot on how the big boys ride as well.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by NoPikouze » Mon May 17, 2010 4:23 pm

Lol it's kind of funny to have 3 persons talking as "Gaurain" :lol:
But I did not do anything today, just came home at 16h10 and BSE was sitting yet ;)


@ Gaurain
Le premier jour (jeudi) j'ai pas réussi a avoir un sprint massif, j'étais un peu en galere avec des coureurs "inconnus"... Et en plus j'ai merdé en mettant ethan en protection de maréchal ce qui l'a fait décrocher lors du dernier "sieb" :lol: Donc apres j'étais en panique total mais heureusement on est revenus sur le 1er groupe... Mais juste avant de revenir les branco clausen etc sont partis en contre, il nous a manqué quelques secondes, je pense qu'avec plus d'expérience et moins de panique j'aurais pu économiser quitana un peu mieux et ca serait revenu... Donc pas terrible mais bon au moins ethan est revenu!

Le 2e jour, arrivée en petit groupe, ethan protégé puis bon sprint. Rien d'autre a dire je crois

Samedi, Montcalciné... Bonne gestion jusqu'au final, ethan se fait décrocher dans les premiers pavés plats je crois bien, plus loin que les gamov et autres qui ont 1 ou 2 pts de plus... Ptet j'aurais du aider avec maréchal mais je l'ai laissé devant pour l'étape (enfin non car branco mais bon). Tempo avec cyriel/ethan/les 2, ecarts stable, et attaque avec ethan au km 218... Un poignée de secondes perdues mais je pouvais pas faire mieux je crois (sauf en aidant avec maréchal? maintenant j'ai un doute...)

Dimanche, Attaque dans la 1ere grosse pente, je vois souvent que ca paie, mais l'inconnue était l'écart que j'allais creuser sur le reste du peloton... Si pas assez, ils me dépassent a la fin. Bon je prends 10 sec sur l'attaque environ et 2 sec par km... Le peloton roule avec environ 4 grimpeurs entre 82 et 84... Ecart maxi dans les 22'' je crois... (toxi dans la roue mais off, personne d'autre ne bouge). Roby attaque plus tard avec gamov, au 183 je pense. Il reprend genre 4-5 sec au km, donc il va me manquer 2 km en gros. Avant qu'il me reprenne, j'arrete le tempo, ensuite je reste dans sa roue et me repose encore 1km, histoire d'avoir ma chance au sprint. Sur le dernier km je remets du tempo pour espérer reprendre aldeia ensemble (qui vient de nous dépasser avec son attaque juste avant la fin), mais c'est peine perdue. Je bats quand meme gamov au sprint et gagne du temps sur le reste. Pas mal je pense ;)


Bon je sais pas si c'est tres clair mais voila en gros le résumé de ce que j'ai vécu :lol: Bilan pas trop mal, mais pas génial non plus pour le début. Accroche toi et finis bien ce giro maintenant :mrgreen:


PS: Ah et aussi sur l'étape de vendredi j'ai pu prendre 6 points pour le maillot de prébois je crois ;)
Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo...

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by gaurain rx » Mon May 17, 2010 5:40 pm

Salut NoPikouze.

Tu as géré, très très bien géré je trouve. Un fantastique résultat hier (je pensais perdre du temps sur les tout gros grimpeurs), tu limite super bien la casse samedi (Ethan est en effet un peu moins bon en pavé que les autres grimpeurs) et Maréchal dans le bon coup, un super tir groupé vendredi. Et jeudi, bon ben, ça arrive de ne pas réussir son coup, pas grave du tout... Prendre une autre équipe en main n'est jamais facile!

En gros, les objectifs sont pleinement atteints... Le podium reste jouable, le maillot à point prenable aussi (même si ça va être dur), un top 5 chaque jour (avec une magnifique 2ème place hier), que demander de plus à un sitter... une graine de champion ce No Pikouze.

Au delà de ça, je te remercie vraiment vu l'investissement en temps que ça a du te couter. Je te revaudrai ça si j'en ai l'occasion!

VIVE NO PIKOUZE

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Thoronto » Mon May 17, 2010 6:20 pm

I need a sitter for my sprinterteam, Giro, 05.20.2010, Thursday from 15 clock ?!

pls help me, thx!

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 18, 2010 8:32 pm

Mmh, now Branco-time?

In reality on 2 of the 3 days a sprint actually seems possible, RSF no chance... all for Clausen-Teodosic-Nicolosi-Branco and co.

1 CG: Could be very important, not only Branco who could have the possiblity to gain time, but all the others will have to pay attention as well.
2 Red: Prébois is back in contention I think. 119 points, Branco 68, Teodosic 64, Clausen 57, Nicolosi 56, Geissler 46 then Caramelli as best climber 36
Expected Branco-Clausen to make some points in the last 2 days, they did not. 51 points... not easy, but not impossible. Tomorrow and Friday will be 20-16 etc. thursday a sprint stage with 30-25 etc. Prébois will have one more stage and that's it. So... escpecially Branco still with very good chances, he coult score points at the intermediate sprints too on some stages, but maybe he will have to chose between GC. Maybe not, will see. But expect 3 fairly hard and potentially chaotic stages, then the serious serious things will start with Monte Grappa...

Especially tomorrow the chances of chaos seem big.. There are a few stage favorites, riders who can hope to win in the end, from Branco to all the 70+80 with sprint (but hard against Branco) to all the 80-70 to all the climbers with some sprint. But don't think many teams will want to control.

Deutsch

Branco Time ab morgen?

Realität: 2 von 3 Etappen können in einem MS enden, bei uns 0, alle 3 für Clausen-Teodosic-Nicolosi-Branco und co.

1 GK: Könnte sehr wichtig werden. Nicht nur Branco der die Chance hat Zeit zu gewinnen, sondern auch die anderen haben Chancen.
2 Rot: Prébois doch wieder mit Chancen. 119 Punkte, Branco 68, Teodosic 64, Clausen 57, Nicolosi 56, Geissler 46 dann Caramelli als bester Bergfahrer 36
Erwartete dass Branco-Clausen in den Sprint ein paar Punkte machen, in den 2 letzten Tagen 0 (oder minim jedenfalls) 51 Punkte Rückstand..nicht einfach, aber nicht unmöglich. Morgen und am Freitag 20-16 etc Punkte, am Donnerstag 30-25 etc. Prébois wird noch eine Sprintetappe haben.Vorallem Branco immer noch mit sehr guten Chancen, er könnte auch gut bei den ZW teilweise noch punkten, aber wird sich vielleicht zwischen GK und rot entscheiden müssen... oder vielleicht nicht. Mal sehen... Erwarte aber jetzt erstmal 3 harte und evtl. chaotische Etappen, dann fängt mit dem Monte Grappa schon der Endkampf an.

Morgen: Grosse Chancen für Chaos. Im Prinzip gäbe es genug Favoriten, resp. Fahrer mit Chancen..Branco, die anderen Klassiker (aber schwer gegen Branco) die 80-70er, die Bergfahrer... bezweifle aber dass viele kontrollieren werden.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Kaju » Tue May 18, 2010 9:10 pm

No Green diagnose by roby? i´m shocked :)

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by gaurain rx » Thu May 20, 2010 9:29 pm

Well... 9 Days left!! And the least I can say is that I'm a bit disappointed by how the race goes. I wasn't there 4 stage, maybe the most interrestings. For the rest, the stages I've seen were really boring :) Though there will be a bigger war during the race... Especially yesterday. Apparently, if you put out Montecalcino, no climbers attacked Ticos ( I say Ticos cause he's the natural actual number one when we look at the stages left)... Ah yeah, Ethan attacked on Terminillo :) But ok, nobody really put in fear the Ticos army. Ticos who will surely win the Giro when being 3/4 of the time offline on flat stages, really few work... quasi none to be honest! That's just a statement. I don't say he musts rides differently! It's just a fact.

Wake up guys :D

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by gaurain rx » Thu May 20, 2010 9:56 pm

And yeah, more personally, it goes well. 3 stages, red jersey at the moment. Chance to keep it till the end, small chance but it exists! And Ethan still in the fight for the podium! 42 seconds loose on Montecalcino. Without it, I think podium would be easy :)

But a lack of attack... Profiles don't really have my agreement

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 21, 2010 8:15 am

Boring? I don't think so... the Giro is just really starting. Tomorrow. Look at the stages so far... sprint stages, we have sprinter teams that work together very well, got all sprints that we wanted expect one. Then medium mountain stages with a fair amount of flat before the end. Wizard, Satzte, Recien, FL with the chances to win there, and they controlled there, and got yesterday and Marina di Carrara. As a bonus one sprint stage as well. All normal. That leaves Montalcino, Terminillo, and L'Aquila.... Start with Terminillo... what do you expect there? It turned out as could be expected. Recien-Ticos and then Belgian making tempo up the hill. Normal, Recien for Branco, Ticos so that an early attack doesn't win, Belgian to cover since Caramelli can't follow Aldeia and by not making tempo Ticos would gain more time with an attack. Only thing that could have been tried: Make the race hard to isolate a few teams... But that wouldn't have been Ticos, the weakened teams would have been Robyklebt, Gaurain and partly Recien. Montalcino? Recien didn't attempt to control, he sent somebody up front to "destroy" the group, Ticos-Recien teamplay if you want, he wasn't liked for doing it. The group still should have won... then big stress, don't really remember what happened anyway... L'Aquila.. this time Recien controlled Wizard saw chances and showed that he would help too. So in the end it was a very controlled race. What more can you do? Attack Ticos? Where and how? Right, there was a chance for Recien when Ticos decided 1 of his 70-80 in front was enough and didn't even chase with the 3 in the back... if Recien had attacked there, before a downhill, then he can gain some time on Ticos. He chose another tactic, didn't work, well, happens.

Why boring? I for one like it so far. Plus the tough stages are just coming. Monte Grappa, Zoncolan, then Peio Termo, then Mortirolo, then Gavia. Just nine 9 days left? Well, 2 important TTs and the 5 stages above, plus today and a sprint stage later.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 21, 2010 8:21 am

Plus of course you need to wake up!
Ticos who will surely win the Giro when being 3/4 of the time offline on flat stages,
And Ethan still in the fight for the podium!
Happy with the podium, already sure that Ticos will win and then we have to wake up?

Plus Ticos working on flat stages... .well, if you want we can all refuse to work on the last sprinter stage and see what happens... :lol:
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by gaurain rx » Fri May 21, 2010 10:49 am

Robyklebt wrote:Plus of course you need to wake up!
Ticos who will surely win the Giro when being 3/4 of the time offline on flat stages,
And Ethan still in the fight for the podium!
Happy with the podium, already sure that Ticos will win and then we have to wake up?

Plus Ticos working on flat stages... .well, if you want we can all refuse to work on the last sprinter stage and see what happens... :lol:
I've only exposed statements ;)

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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by VC Aywaille » Fri May 21, 2010 11:25 am

The stages i maked for Belgian was a little boring, i must say what i feel. I don't want to say that it's the fout of some managers. It's just my feeling at the moment. ;)

We all play for fun, i hope! ;)
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Lizard » Sat May 22, 2010 1:48 pm

Deeply depressed somehow... my whole managing this Giro is just ridiculous. Wrong decisions everywhere to make decisions, I don´t know how this should get better in the last week. And then we even run out of stages I can win. Argh, no no, not good.
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 22, 2010 2:45 pm

You won 2 stages.... how many more do you need?

13 stages

3 Gaurain
2 Satzte
2 Lizard
1 Roby
1 Thoronto
1 Hello Kitty.
1 Recien
1 Ticos
1 Belgian

9 teams won stages so far, which I really like, no teams or group of teams really dominate. "Losers" so far: FL obviously, gets second places all the time. And wins all the sprints when it's not for the win. Kaju has green, will probably lose it to Toxi sooner or later...

Yesterday:

3 loser:

Ticos very stupid.... Minimal work, to come back with his 2 riders, follows with Bonilla and Arias, then... Campos in tempo follows. "Shit, why am I still following?" he says. normally you would expect that he then takes it off... a few minutes later he has to go off.. offlinestuff, good... but Campos still following.. attack, group standing. Not my job to control for him.. plus Berlogea of course follows too... favorites group standing, Belgian and Roby attack, Ticos did not only forget to take following out with Campos but to change who Aldeia follows it seems. At least I suspect he was still following Branco...Not a nice way to win a minute, but well, it's Ticos. Happens to Radler or somebody, ok. Let's do his job and control, he would do the same. Ticos? Pff. Fully deserved that we took advantage of it. He still is in the race though, thanks to the sprinter express... but some things will get harder now... some things maybe not, now it's not his job to get rid of Recien anymore... A Robysieb is possible, was highly unlikely before.. let Ticos try to drop Branco with Bonilla...

Gaurain: As he said at the start... I will be the loser... turned out to be true. All for sprint, didn't work, 1'37" in the end.. Had only Heinhardt in front, and he didn't follow Caramelli or Gamov as I expected. Probably he should have. Yes, if Aldeia follows him, then he "destroys" the Gamov-Caramelli attack. But don't think Heinhardt was a good wheel, isolated, Belgian with her 80-70 , Roby with Guggisberg in front and Berlogea in the group more dangerous.. I think he should have followed us. The sprint.. I thought we would be closer, it seemed fairly possible actually, but we had no chance. Ok, both Gaurain and Roby had to use to helpers to reload the sprinters, Thoronto helped both sprinters instead of just one, which in cases like that would be better. So we didn't have much firepower, if FL had said something yesterday... then at least Uzielli or Feng would have been fit(ter) on my part, but well.. not a big difference. Probably we could have come closer, would have let drop Berlogea too if it seemed possible, but 1'37" we didn't ride that badly that we just lost 1'37" that could easily have been gained.. just miscalculated finally. Still, was worth it, was fun, that's what makes sprints fun, the long chases, more fun if then we get the sprint, but well. In the end as I said Gaurain the loser... all for the sprinter + in my opinion the wrong decision in front. But well, he has 3 stages and we all worked in the back too. But mmh, don't think we'll listen to FLs ideas today.. no sprint!

Lizard: red further away... stage not won. 2 really big mistakes (But everybody makes mistakes,not only you... .I had bigger ones..) not following Branco directly (pff, for once I followed Clausen instead of my usual Branco in the flat, Santera when it's up, and then this...) so lost +/-30" (Which shows how far the sprinters really were, even with that present still 1'37") 2 block the last km.The first mistake.. ok, that can happen.. it's, baaaa... stupid why didn't I follow Branco??? But then how is he supposed to know Branco will go? And not Santera (already used, Aldeia better chance to follow, 0,01 instead of 0) But the missed block....at first didn't want to attack, was sure he would block, plus I suspected that Ameise was on me anyway... seemed to be the case from the first attack. But well, try anyway, get away. Would have been better to block... much better. Stagewin possible, not sure with the 2 Ticos, of course, but red as well. Prébois now has 28 points advantage... and still one sprint stage left. For Clausen the stages are few... maybe today, maybe Peio Terme.. maybe the sprint stage.. .but all not really sure. Intermediate sprints.. .Like that he ended up 5th with 11 points instead of 2 with 16. Still hard even then, today, Peio Terme, maybe even Mortirolo Branco could make points, more difficult for Clausen I think, still "only" 74 mountain. Favorite for red now Prébois I think. Branco nr 2, Clausen outsider. his best hope, intermediate sprints.

Belgian, Roby and Recien the winners of the day... changes a lot.. I'm still a bit confused... was fairly happy with my 55" back, yeah, lost some unnecessary time on the way.... maybe 10" in the TTT because I wanted to have Eiterolloid fit the next day (stupid Roby) maybe 10" in Montalcino, 5" Terminillo... so could have been at 30".. but then everybody can find some 25" he lost unnecessarily along the way, 55" to Ticos was ok, and the rest.. pff, don't care... I trust in Ticos, if I beat him I win the Giro, he'll beat the rest for me. Knew what I wanted to do, knew I would probably lose another minute or so in the 2 TTs (36" in the second one, 30" in the mountain one (ok, maybe more, maybe less on that one, don't really know...), but have no responsability to chase Belgians, Reciens, Heinhardts etc. Can fully concentrate on complicated attack plans. Now... I'm still 1' back virtually, but now of course Ticos will not have as much "room" to give me as before... not that he would have given me much before since he wants to win all mountain stages as far as I know him, but... different situation and now Roby and his 2 DS, Roland Guggisberg, Gilbert Pflock (the third one Odobescu is training the rest of the team in Romania) plus the future DS Erioli have been busy analyzing the new situation and trying to come up with a new masterplan... the old one.. somehow... yep, Roby still very confused, doesn't like unexpected change.. the minute is nice, but what to do now???

Anyway, I really hope Recien gets a sitter, he rode a good race so far, don't think Branco can win it, but he still can do well and it would be a shame if he ended up losing everything now. Sitter for Recien please!

Deutsch... heute nicht... morgen wieder, sorry... war ja auch nicht so lange geplant. Zsfg: bla bla bla bla.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 23, 2010 8:51 pm

Stupid Roby, stupid stupid, very idiotic mistake.
Knew what I had to do. Tempo with Buonarroti, then when dropped wait to go in tempo with Gamov until nobody in the back in tempo is close enough.. .I think Verunga was at over 30" that km already... should have gone in. Actually should have gone in at least 2 km earlier. Verunga dropped, at 14" then 21? or a bit more even? Then over 30". When he was at 14" mmh, go in now? No, he wants to sieb Caramelli, he'll do another km. Ok. Then? Should just have gone in. Too stupid to do it. Idiot Roby. But ok, Aywaille made the same mistake some maybe we can share it and be only half idiots... :lol: Anyway, we both lost 30" that we didn't need to lose. Chances? Still there, for both Belgian and me...but of course we made life more difficult for ourselves today. But ok, in the end, still gained almost 40" by mistake I think. So still 40" closer to Ticos than I thought friday morning, expected to have to make up 2'30" all together, now 40" less so it's 1'50"?
Big ? the TT on Zoncolan... don't really know how much I lose there... hope it's not too much.


Deutsch:

Roby ein Idiot. Ok, alles gesagt eigentlich. Zoncolan.... unten Buonarroti, wenn der abgehängt ist und kein Tempomacher kurz hinter der Gruppe mit Gamov rein und hochtuckern. WArum nicht gemacht? Blödheit... so 30" verloren die ich nicht hätte verlieren müssen/sollen/dürfen. Etwas verlieren war zu erwarten, eingeplant. 43" Sek (51" mit Boni) zu viel. Schlichtwegs idiotisch Klebt heute. Ein Mix aus Ueberschätzung Gamovs, Ticos im Tempo, evtl geschwächt genug, wenn ich mitkomme gibt's 1 Tag rosa.. früh einsetzende Senilität und warten auf Caramelli der genau den gleichen Fehler wie ich gemacht hat. Verhängt war ich bis zum Km des Angriffs ja auch nicht... erst da mmh, evtl reicht's ja doch.. Kurz gesagt, Klebt unfähig. Erschiesst ihn (ok, nein, aber...) Jetzt 30" für nix weg, aber ok, am Freitag 1'10" oder so bekommen durch Ticos Hirnschiss, also immer noch 40" + ok. Und insgesamt also näher an Ticos als ich zu diesem Zeitpunkt erwartet hatte.


Psycho:

Tempo heute... nicht das Ende der Welt, aber was bringt es dir und was bringt es dir nicht? Näher an die Spitze ran? Schlussendlich wohl etwas, ja. minim. Nur... ich und Ticos waren schon Ewigkeiten im Tempo da. Ich siebe wegen meiner schlechten Verbindung mal Ticos weg (im Finale war sie dann zum Glück ok.. resp leider, wäre mit offeinstellungen wohl besser gefahren...) frage dann, neuer oder soll ich warten? Er sagt egal, bis zum Berg fährt nur Borges. Ok. ich warte, fast eine Minute da. Dann, ist er bis auf 9" dran. Und dann gehst du rein. Wozu? Weil niemand fahre... wart einen Km und Ticos und Roby fahren wieder. Die vorne hatten da schon keine Chance mehr durchzukommen, der Gaurainangriff der nicht ungefährlich war garantierte sozusagen dass wir das Tempo hochhalten müssen. Wir wären wohl etwas langsamer gewesen als du schlussendlich, schon angebraucht unsere 2...aber wie viel? 20" vielleicht. Oder 40".. weiss nicht. Also Tempo weil der Abstand zur Spitze kleiner werden soll... na ja.. hat nicht viel gebracht, hast dann später mal gesagt sei ja niemand gefahren... eben doch, da 3 oder 4 km nicht weil auf Ticos gewartet wurde, vorher ja und nachher auch wieder ja. Also, Rennen verflogen, war doch klar dass wir gleich wieder fahren!

Dann... was bringt es dir? Schlussendlich eben nicht viel. Bringt es dich ein paar Plätze nach vorne? Nein. Manchmal ja, heute aber nein. (ausser Gaurain hat sich vom Tempo abhalten lassen, glaube aber nicht) Aber morgen eh Ruhetag, Fahrer haben zu viel Energie, schadet also auch nichts etwas Tempo? Nein. Schadet dir langfristig dann eben schon. Weil so machst dir Feinde. Und damit meine ich nicht Leute die dir im Rennen sagen du sollst jetzt nicht fahren. Sondern solche die dann Rachetempo machen irgendwann mal. Versetz dich doch mal in die Situation der vorne. Und Gaurains. Dass du vom Tempo nicht profitieren würdest war irgendwie allen klar. Trotzdem machst du es. Warum? Gaurain hätte da z.B. einen sehr gefährlichen GK Angriff mit Heinhardt lancieren können. Ok, auch mit deinem Tempo wohl möglich, hat dann nicht. Aber irgendwann riskierst einem eine gute Chance zunichte zu machen, ohne selbst davon gross profitieren zu können. Und wenn's umgekehrt wäre... würdest du dich freuen? Man riskiert was, man versucht was und einer macht Tempo der selbst davon nicht profitiert. Nein, das freut einen nicht, wird auch dich nicht freuen wenn's passiert. Man muss nicht immer nur ein Team fahren lassen, richtig, meistens gibt es mehrere Favoriten, richtig, aber gibt meistens auch Teams die eigentlich keine Chance haben. Die dann im Tempo zu sehen ist einfach ärgerlich.

Aber irgendwann wird dieses umgekehrt garantiert passieren wenn du so Tempo wie heute machst, irgendwann wird sich jemand sagen: Psycho der Mahagonipate ist vorne und die Gruppe hat Siegchancen? Ich hinten keine, aber ok, ich helfe jetzt mal den Sprintern, der Pate hat mich am Tag x auch sinnlos gejagt. Kurz gesagt, langfristig machst dir Feinde im Rennen, die dann im Zweifelsfall gegen dich fahren. Siehe Freitag, Ticos mit einem sehr dummen Fehler bei seinen Offlineeinstellungen. Was mache ich? Ich greife an. Und gewinne 1'10" Wenn ich ein fähigerer Manager wäre hätte das der Girosieg sein können, für Ticos die Niederlage, nur wegen einer Unachtsamkeit. Warum greife ich an? Weil's Ticos ist. Bei x anderen hätte ich auch angegriffen. Bei vielen anderen aber nicht. Gaurain Favo mit dem Fehler? Greife nicht an, gehe ins Tempo und sichere ab. Befluche ihn aber etwas. Radler, Mathe, FL, viele andere das gleiche. Bei Ticos keine Gnade, viele seiner Taktiken gefallen mir zu wenig, angefangen bei meinem alten Favoriten"Sektrick raus in der Fluchtgruppe" (er sagt er habe es nie absichtlich gemacht und früher sagte er er habe es nur noch früher gemacht, ist eh nur hier erwähnt weil es ihn immer so schön nervt wenn ich es erwähne..., falls er mitliest, muss ihn jetzt nerven damit er nervös wird). Kurz gesagt, man behandelt nicht alle anderen Manager gleich, man passt sich an.. und geht dabei nicht um Sympathie, sympatisch bist ja, sondern um die Fahrweise. Also, so machst dir langfristig nur "Feinde", die gegen dich dann härter fahren, und Vorteil hast je nach Situation kurzfristig einen kleinen, manchmal gar keinen. Meiner Meinung nach jedenfalls.

Aber schlussendlich ist es natürlich deine Entscheidung wie du fährst, klar. Kann dir niemand verbieten Tempo zu machen. Aber man darf auch sagen wenn man das Tempo nicht sinnvoll findet, wie ich (für meine Fahrer war das Tempo ja sogar nützlich) und andere heute. Und ist mir auch klar dass leider unterdessen 90% der "warum machst du Tempo" Schreie bei RSF vollkommener Blödsinn sind, nur da um selbst einen taktischen Vorteil zu gewinnen, da wird teilweise "hör auf zu fahren" geschrien wenn einer mit einem Favoriten fährt...Sachen liest man da teilweise, unglaublich... nur in diesem Giro eigentlich nicht wirklich, denke allgemein sind wir da gut und nett bisher. Trotzdem.. wenn einer ein Tempo nicht sinnvoll findet hat er genauso das Recht das zu sagen wie du das Recht hast zu fahren wie du willst. Nur eben, ich bin der Meinung deine Sorte Tempo schadet dir langfristig selbst auch mehr und ist oft wirklich etwas unsinnig, genauso wie ich der Meinung bin dass viele der übertriebenen "fahr nicht" Schreier peinliche "verbotenes Wort" sind.. Und passe mich dann auch an, bei Tempisten fahre ich irgendwann eher gegen sie, bei den Schreiern fange ich wohl bald an - in der Fairness zu verteilen.

Ungefähr klar was der edle Roby hier verzapft? Schlussendlich darfst fahren wie du willst, warum ich dein Tempo z.B. heute (in den Anden aber teilweise auch) nicht wirklich sinnvoll finde darf ich auch sagen, damit gemacht.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

VC Aywaille
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Re: Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

Post by VC Aywaille » Sun May 23, 2010 11:03 pm

Robyklebt wrote:But ok, Aywaille made the same mistake some maybe we can share it and be only half idiots... :lol:
That's okay for me if iam 49% idiotic and you 51! :lol:

It was a bad error. But ok, all the 3 favorits make an error on this Giro. Except Belgian, cause it's my own error. :oops:

Okay, all right, i can eat tonight! :D
VC Aywaille
The team to beat

Il ne faut jamais juger les gens sur leurs fréquentations : Judas, par exemple, avait des amis irréprochables! (Verlaine)

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