Italian Autumn, superb classics and semi classics

[Robyklebt]

A bit late for the thread, most august races done....

But Veneto today, cool race at 9!

Ari-show, thought was too early, but no, he knows how to do it. Then attack with Raggi, 3 following, one not wanting to ride, a 5th joins... still slow... then finally they all ride...

Finally Furpach winning, the worst D1 team of all time actually, not talking about the manager, don't know him, just the team (and team building)..

Sprint would have easily been possible, but the 2 main sprint teams, Elaska and Nantes waiting too long to just put in some mass. Plus both with 2 sprinters... 95+92, 94+90... not a good idea when the profile is like today...

Anyway, Veneto, cool race, even if in reality no race this year. Which sucks, but...

[ariostea]

yeah, cool race. too early? had no idea - just rode and wanted to see who will ride behind - may be somebody in front too. when even Alk rode in the back i thought about giving up in the front group - no chance if really everybody wants the sprint... but Anev said: a Bulgarian Partisan never gives up! there are turkish people behind... - so he just went on riding... then had to try something because obviously nobody would help against the sprint in front- so attacked with Raggi. He just failed to win the sprint, what was clearly the fault of Nopik. he has to go early with Zandi - then Raggi will easily win from Corres wheel.

27.08.2011,9 Uhr : Giro del Veneto: Mittelschwere Etappe
1. 00:00:00 Gelsomino Corres (SV Furpach)
2. 00:00:00 Filippo Raggi (Ariostea)
3. 00:00:00 Marc Cerise (tango)
4. 00:00:00 Masoud Zandi (NoPikouze)
5. 00:00:00 Pascal Fourche (tango)

[Robyklebt]

I thought too early, it obviously wasn't. But Pitu would have won that!

[ariostea]

found last year´s result of Veneto:

01. 00:00:00 Esteban Trueba (Alkworld)
02. 00:00:00 Jawad Azizi (NoPikouze)
03. 00:00:00 Jonas Karatek (T-Mobile Team)
04. 00:00:00 Damir Obasi (Dream Rider)
05. 00:00:00 Gino Cutunio (Ariostea)
06. 00:00:00 Filiberto Aguilera (the RIDERS)
07. 00:00:00 Kuuno Kasendi (Falkenbier)
08. 00:00:00 Vitali Volosjuk (Falkenbier)
09. 00:00:00 Norbertas Ceras (SachsenPower)
10. 00:00:00 Ben Hermans (T-Mobile Team)

can´t remember properly - but to me somehow looks like Nopik managed last year too to blow Cutunio´s sprint. i mean: Cutunio 5th - Azizi 2nd? for sure he elbow-checked him or something like this...

[Robyklebt]

Was all Anti Eiterolloid last year. Riders (not Gnoien as I claimend in the gamechat) with a sprinter for whom he doesn't ride. And of course NoPik that rides for Trueba, while Karli and co fight in the back. And could have come back if that NoPik had just kept his cool and rode for the win... by letting Karli back! Grr

All NoPiks fault, for sure.

[Zentaron]

Yeah, cool race, and i can't ride it, cause i have to work now, grrrrrrrr.

[Robyklebt]

Should have ridden at 9 then. Or at 13, to lose against FABULOUS CONTI!

31 career wins now, with that he is.....the Italian rider with most wins of all times! Dropping Cutunio who thanks to Azizi in 2010 stays at 30

FABULOUS Best Italian of all times!

Cool anyway, don't know about the race, after it only about the win.
Clear clear sprint from the start IMO. Teams like Quick and Erkrath clearly saving their power for tomorrows french farmer race. Was so clear that the bored ape even could do an early sieb himself with Uchigasaki, all dropped Montandon goes, first thought goes through, then caught, anothers sieb at 157 or so, then go for real with a few others.. but looked so good, that we could wait for FL and Crissler, then go the 3 of us. Some siebs by Hachen, dropped sprinter, trying to disrupt us, didn't work, almost after the last hill though.. when after the sieb first others didn't want to wait for FL sausages. Finally waited, then even Falke had realized that in front he should make tempo... should have gone mass soon, keep one each or so ok, rest in. keep Kagran in, with only one each left at the end, he has hope to escape and can ride... but a bit late Falke, and by then in t he back we were perfectly organized! In the end everybody from 1-9 made some tempo either in the Falkegroup or in the Fabulousgroup. Cool, at least we all had something to do. Got them, sprint, and with his usual luck, or class according to him Fabulous delivers his 4th season win. Bernocchi, would have counted as semi classic too, Carnaghese not really... the last one just a number, but Italian at least. YEAH. FABULOUS!

[Robyklebt]

MMh, I'm late as usual..

Opposite order for the Trittico this year, strange. Bernocchi-Agostoni-Tre Valli....
Bernocchi, forgot already everything, boring sprint with no chance for Markku.
Agostoni: 2 cards, one Alighieri, one Markku... Siebs here and there, the sprinters dropped, Markku nr 2, behind the Orica guy, in front of Bearclaw and Falke. Falke off with 95... Bear on with 89 but with Falke... wait, catch Orica and then ride with him? Bear has the most firepower and Falke off for ages.. .ok wait. Looked difficult to get the group in front, where Alighieri was one of 10?15? guys with win chances... then baaaaaaaah.... Falke comes on. Ok, clear, now we ride in the back for Alighieri in the front... Let Schuster with 67+66 use of of his guys early, or a bit early. But... Schuster just gave up, bah. Instead of working with one and then demand help by others after 1-2 km. Which would have made sense, 67+66 then lots of 65-60 there, if he uses one of his 2 guys, his win chances still there, but not really that big either... would make sense to help, but of course only after HE uses one of his 2 cards. Then, Sekiguchi can help. And hopefully guys of other teams too. But no, he just gives up, and then of course the sprint, the attack by Wollfinger followed by Sekiguchi caught in the last km.. wouldn't have won there either of course. So sprint, 95-89-85-83.... ok, worked enough for nothing there, not going early, just follow the 95. He was probably following the wrong ones of the 60 guys, so in the end all at 50, 4th for Markku. Still haven't won Agostoni, grrr.
Tomorrow Tre Valli, new courses, doesn't look too good for the awesome apes, but let's see what they can do.
In other news, Häfelis suspension will very likely be lifted, Gong proved to be an idiot today, so after all Häfeli chasing him a good idea probably.

[Robyklebt]

Oh, nice thread, why not use it:

2 6th places in MIlano-Torino and Gran Piemonte (stupid stupid name, I go back to call it Giro del Piemonte now)

Today ok finally... although if me and my twin these last 2 days BW would have ridden it a bit more cleverly, who knows....but ok, 6th place with Legrand, good enough. Interesting race won by some Wolsink, sometimes you can call him Wolskin too but only twice per month I think. The * pavé at the end made it interesting, don't think anybody knew for sure if Wolsink and Litu would manage to follow, they did, Wolsink won.

Yesterday.... grrr. Yesterday in retrospect I could, should have done better. 700 climbers with 84+ it seemed... Trapani leader, after a few km ok, Ramirez will have so much more energy once we get to the mountains.... so he's the leader.. not that it changed anything, both with 2 helpers and that's it. Then block with Trapani... 12... should have gone in with Ramirez there, then lose less time on all those crazy attackers, and... since everybody attacked, actually Ramirez then would have had a chance... but well, stupid ape.. So twice 6th, not really good, but didn't really expect more...

Now off to the last one... no, not this year, still not used to that new calendar, Lombardia so early.... but the last one of the month, Lombardia, plan to win... but would settle for another 6th place after all

[Robyklebt]

I keep using this... Giro di Lombardia coming up!

The awesome apes will start at 15h as usual. Thought about going to 10h, after all the only classic win this year came in the morning, but well, let's stay in the stronger afternoon.

The team for today:

1 Nicola Buttu: In his 26th race (only mentioning it so you can see he isn't overworked, he missed 2 races (plus the WC) his job will be the same as usual. Help. Until Valcava anyway...
2 Gong Bang: Help! First the leaders, then maybe Buttu? After all Buttu has to become like Gong, so who better to train him, show him what to do?
3 Nicolas Legrand: ALLEZ NICOLAS! Possible leader, but well, not perfect either, will definetly be protected, then we'll see how he feeld
4 Rakhat Momyshuly: Here to learn, help, and hopefully realize the importance of the flat skill... only +2 this month, grr. Could be free or even protected at the start, later though clearly as a support rider. Maybe some siebs?
5 Titus Olteanu: See Gong. Same job. The muro di Sormano or the Madonna del Ghisallo will probably the end of the leader helping assignment.
6 Yesid Ramirez: El Aeroplano plans another possible leader.. Some downhill would have been nice for him, but well... life is what it is. SEe Nicolas, start protected, then we'll see.
7 Pompiliu Scodreanu: Help! First help, then he'll train, From the moment he's dropped he'll become the leader for Buttu, Lombardia 13, Buttu helps, Scodreanu wins, and Gong/Olteanu will teach Buttu how to do it.
8 Daiken Sekiguchi: Races are more important than training he says... well ok, he'll be a support rider.. nr 4/5 with Rakhat, although we'll keep the 2 apart, a bit afraid that Rakhat is convinced by Daikens philosophy.
9 Michele Trapani: Possible leader nr 3. See the 2 others. He has the downhill, but no flat... 50 sprint though, excellent tomorrow in this team. We'll see

Average age: 26 So a perfect team
Average climbing: 68,88 very nice, shows Daiken that he's sub standard!
Average flat: 70,44 Mmh,some improvements possible there probably
Average downhill: 71,55 Ha, superb
Average sprint: 48,44 Very good too, impossible to discern the leader for the opponents with this compact team.

Once again though we really don't have a rider that seems to be made for Lombardia. Both climbers with one glaring weakness, and with 85 not really top either anyway. Plus the new finale (since 2011)is even less climbers friendly than the old one, where we regularly failed with the climbers too. Legrand of course is excellent, but 73 mountain. Short check, there are 212 riders with minimum skills 73-78 in the game.. .game, what game? active I mean of course. And 67 with 74-80 minimum... So while Nicolas clearly is the best, his skills don't reflect that yet. A bug probably. The strength though is the team again, basically we just lack a leader, Ramirez, Trapani, Rakhat, Legrand, Sekiguchi, Olteanu, Gong, 7 guys with 60 mountain.. Another one with 58.. problem though... where is the leader. Mmh, starting to suspect Ari might have had a point when he kept claiming I had no leaders, will think about that in Winter. But might just be some Lombardia thing.. historically our weakest monument, neither the useless RKL, not the heavenly ape, even less actually, managed to do anything decent so far. Let's hope it changes, but not too confindent. But with the training plan, 2013 nothing can go wrong!

[Lizard]

Lizard in for 22h.

Zachary Soneau 81-72-60-52-58
Alan Bosh 46-85-50-49-54
Bronco Bruni 55-80-77-54-46
Enzo Gabbana 70-75-64-56-58
Stephané Morel 52-81-72-57-48
Renzo Spezileziatti 52-81-69-42-43
Wilco Westermans 71-79-78-51-53
Tim Wintersted 69-81-61-54-63
Arno Wollfinger 74-79-54-49-57

Average:
Climbing 63,3
Flat 79,2
Downhill 65
Sprint 53,3
Age 27,7

Probably the oldest Lizard team ever to participate at a classic, the generation is close to its climax, though we have had stronger teams in the past as we had stronger individualists.

[Robyklebt]

Good luck..... didn't bring me any luck, or better, brain, luck had nothing to do with it, to post in this thread.

Horrible finish by the ape.
-1 Groupe with 2 apes and many bad classics in front, 5"... Legrand, 2 other classics in the bigger group behind. Ape attacks. no, he doesn't, don't know why... wanted, but didn't put it in, NO IDEA why. not to slow, not thinking too long, not rethinking it, just... didn't do it.
then attacked at 0 the next km, but ok, was over there... no, after all didn't put it in there either, there I thought I had put it in actually.. .was a bit fuuuuck ,all those guys following? But anyway, was only for money there, there the 3 classics in front where through. At -1, nobody went in front, Legrand could have gone bakc close to the group, maybe in the group... hopefully in the gruop. then I'm in for a win, outside chance still, but would have been in, 1 of probably 6 classics in front the, plus 2 climbers for the sprint... .but no, just didn't do the attack, no clue why.
But happy with my Sekiguchi attack.. .ok, first was majorly pissed of when teamfree instead of riding with his puller who came one km later waited for summer.. grrr, WHAT FOR.... then we los some time when I was pouting and refused to work... and teamfree went out one km too... but wouldn't have been enough even with 30" more... but liked the attack.

[Bear]

Too bad you didn't attack. Probably you would have been in front, maybe with two guys following or more, but you get your chance for the win, maybe your only chance for the win. So you had to attack. You were in tempo in front with Ramirez, that was good because it kept the classics from doing anything (at least I think so). Going out with sec-trick and attack with Legrand, that would have been brilliant. But thats easy to say after the race.

10h race was a good one, although I did not make a perfect race. 1st mistake was to not wait for francais in the downhill (but thought he was not fast enough with 71 downhill and no form like he said.). Waiting, then doing the downhill, francais much fresher, he attacks and alk cant follow... this would have been a different and maybe better situation, but dont know if I could win this way, SMs rider and others had much more energy and beat me in sprint too. 2nd mistake, did not follow Alk on the last km, but was not sure he could follow. maybe I can follow sm but then alk probably wins too because he gets the wheel and i end up second. maybe, maybe not. I am ok with the result since my team was not that strong. A climber was missing in my team, like MB or even JB. I still think the climber with flat and sprint is still the best one for Lombardia because most of your opponents will not follow you at the last km, but your rider can follow attacks, sprint early and win...

[Robyklebt]

Didn't see your end... so can't comment. And agree on what you said about my shit. Just bad.

[NoPikouze]

Nope it was brilliant! If Alk sells 5-6 riders i might have a chance to winD1, and that was your plan, wasnt it?

[Robyklebt]

Your shit was horrible too, until the Isatay attack. From then on brilliant, or everything just worked perfectly.
But the future counts... let's talk about Lazio!

[NoPikouze]

Yeah yeah I was horrible, nonetheless it's my first monument win, and it happens at the 15h edition. Should tell you something about the general level of the afternoon races

But ok, seriously, yes it was horrible, but mainly because the execution was a failure! (Whether farmtricks are a valid tactic is another discussion, but on this kind of profile it's the only option against a slowly-siebing standard race).
Nevertheless, IF I hadn't done it, we can assume Bayern's climber would have been fitter (he had only 3 riders for a while, so my educated guess is that he protected the 59 sprint guy). With this tired climber, the final sieb was way weaker than anybody expected (and nobody else siebed), allowing some classics to stay in the game. AND in the final descent, our frontgroup was able to keep a 5" gap during the whole time. Without my idiotic riding, his climber would have siebed harder, and also been able to come closer and maybe even close the gap in the donwhill.

And in the end, since I'm the winner, we can only say it was perfect

[team fl]

[Bear]

Congrats Fl!

What the hell happened in the 22h race? ok, they let the group lots of time it seems so that they came through. But how can he a rider with 45 downhill win this race?? Very strange!!

[Lizard]

Congrats Fl!

What the hell happened in the 22h race? ok, they let the group lots of time it seems so that they came through. But how can he a rider with 45 downhill win this race?? Very strange!!

For the peloton: Larapana was waiting to long, I bauernsiebed, Mbak took over, Larapana still waiting, then Mbak turns green, thats were finally the group had too much time. The group didnt tactic at all, just going all together (boooring^^), Aux goes from 500 so all 3 had a chance, finally he won.

[Robyklebt]

I don't like FL.

[team fl]

I take it as a compliment

[Robyklebt]

EMILIA!

When the question... 10h out, 15h out.. .hope to make it 18h then. But a bunch of strange people I don't know there... bah. If not might miss it though... would be a fitting end to a depressing climbing year for the apes:

Flèche: Can't ride
LBL: Can't ride
Giro: Can't ride

Oh well, think positive, so didn't have to live through 3 depressing defeats.

Just saw Radler inscribed at 18h! YEAH, so ape too, for the moment, hope to be back early enough.

[NoPikouze]

Just saw Radler inscribed at 18h! YEAH, so ape too, for the moment, hope to be back early enough.

Perhaps you should lend him some riders...

[NoPikouze]

Bad bad bad... I fucked up Emilia by following the wrong rider at the wrong km... Blew away any slight chance I had (without form it was already not such a big hope). And most probably the last chance to win a decent classic race with Mirjaqip. Dammit.