Tour de France 2022, 14h

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Robyklebt
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Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Jun 26, 2022 5:32 pm

The post Giro criterium!

I fear a small group. AAD and T-Mobile-A unavailable the first 10 days.... so who will start with the Donkey? HOpe we find enough people.

The Donkey team shouldn't really scare people away:

A. Basterretxea leader, now wat 86-58 after 2 trainings in June, mountain and flat

R. Gamboa: Sprinter, hopefully improving, after an excellent start he's now slowed down his training a bit.

T. Bradman-D. Meucci, flat stars

A. Short-A. Carpinteiro: 60-80, helpers for Gamboa at times, for Basterretxea at other times, escapers in other situatins. If we have more than 2 teams at least....

Very very likely: P. Rossi: See Carpinteiro and Short.

2 open spots,

Candidates:
Drinkwater: Classic with downhill
Bieri: Useless classic with downhill and sprint
Huizinga: classic
Tran; flat with some reg and pavé
Pecci: flat with pavé
Rrurrambu: young sprinter

Rrurrambu highly unlikely, with the anti-sprint parcours of the TdF.
Normally should be Drinkwater Bieri, but they pissed the Donkey off during the TdS, not helping Asier properly, we don't need such people. Still favorites...
Huizinga less downhill, but a training in a few hours would put him above the 2 other classics
Tran-Pecci for the pavé stage, only Bradman not really enough if we want to try to win that.

Still thinking, maybe no Rossi after all...
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by bergwerk cycling » Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:42 pm

looks like i will try it at 14h with my Div.6-lowcostteam:
1 Hillrider Harry Blind, 2 Halfclassicer James Macpherson and Peter Pommeroy, 1 Sprinthelper Sid Peppercorn and 5 Helpers.

problems:
sure, that iam not often enough on (specially the weekends will be a problem)
Stage 5 ... the copplestones might be a problem

wishes/goals:
the first victory since my restart
lot of fun in the escapes
Last edited by bergwerk cycling on Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by team fl » Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:17 am

I still don't know if I have the time and interest to join the After Giro Criterium this year. I guess it will be a short term decision, very spontaneous. Anyway, IF i join, the following riders will start (most likely):

x1 Aaron Armleder
x2 Ben Bollendorff
x3 Fortunato Fontdevila
x4 Guido Görtzen
x5 Kevin Klinkenberg
x6 Kornelius Kinn / Frits Flaskjer / Magnus Marxer
x7 Prometheus Proulx
x8 Volkmar Vogt
x9 Zacharias Zahn

IF we join, 8 out of 9 are pretty much set, the 9th spot will be given to one out of Kinn, Flaskjer (youth prospect) or Marxer (if he doesn't retire at the end of June). Goal is the usual: Waste lots of money, enjoy the landscape, be as much online as possible. Or in other words: An expensive vacation trip to france for Team FL with more rest days than planned probably.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Alkworld » Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:20 pm

Team Alkworld will also join the afternoon this time, most likely to do a bit of stage hunting. Probably with Manrique, Melville and Cornet, with some good flat riders supporting them. And some substantial off times due to the family summer vacation.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:58 pm

The real TDF 2022! With famous teams showing up? Donkey, bergwerk, Alk, FL,... nice. Add some other afternoon guys like AAD, TMA or TSD... maybe some others... and we would have a peloton that deserves the name.

In any case, we'll sign up with the best we have! LBL winner Vespa will lead the team and have a junior suite for himself in the hotel. Next door will be his Italian friends Abbiati and Gerbi. RVV winner Gagneux joins for the Arenberg stage and all the other stages with pavé. His roommate will be Luxembourgish friend and youngstar Florent Faber. The 4th room has two more pavé specialists: Felix Fischer from Germany and Mikael Meyer from Denmark. The 5th room will consist out of our downhill specialists: Famara Faye from Senegal and Oleksandr Outschakov from Ukraine.

Average age will be 30.9 and that's with the young Meyer and Outschakov already. So the main goal is to finish the Tour with 9 riders. If we can win a stage or conquer one of the jerseys for a day, that would be fantastic, but it would be too much to expect that.

x1 Image Vittore VESPA............. 74-78-70-46-53-72.0, 61reg, 35 years-old
x2 Image Aldo ABBIATI............... 74-80-73-50-55-69.5, 45reg, 34 years-old
x3 Image Florent FABER............. 71-79-79-51-47-70.3, 52reg, 27 years-old
x4 Image Giacomo GERBI........... 62-87-69-47-50-84.0, 41reg, 32 years-old
x5 Image Felix FISCHER............. 56-88-72-46-47-81.7, 37reg, 32 years-old
x6 Image Mikael MEYER.............. 55-73-77-46-43-73.9, 60reg, 22 years-old
x7 Image Oleksandr OUTSCHAKOV. 54-80-83-54-49-73.1, 57reg, 24 years-old
x8 Image Gaspard GAGNEUX........ 53-73-59-45-44-75.1, 55reg, 38 years-old
x9 Image Famara FAYE............... 51-72-92-48-53-66.9, 47reg, 34 years-old

What's next? Who will produce a favo check?
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:18 pm

Signed in, highly unmotivated to ride that shit race, but I probably have to to keep the afternoon numbers up.

Give us 10 team then I can sign out!
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by flockmastoR » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:29 am

Will be watching the game from spectator chat from week 2. Also if you need a sitter I can help.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Weezel » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:38 am

flockmastoR wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:29 am
Will be watching the game from spectator chat from week 2. Also if you need a sitter I can help.
Sitter sounds good. Is there any chance from the 1. to 11th of July? I'm on vacation and will have a cheap team. Only can maybe have a look part time. Would be great if you can sit some stages at the beginning of the second week.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by team fl » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:05 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:18 pm
Signed in, highly unmotivated to ride that shit race, but I probably have to to keep the afternoon numbers up.

Give us 10 team then I can sign out!
Same here. Inscription is done. Worst case is, I lose a lot of money :?

And it's Flaskjer for Marxer, who retired yesterday. Vogt stays at home, he has to become good first... And Terry ist just terryible :)
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by team fl » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:38 pm

No time for a detailed preview, but enough time for a favourite check:


General classement:

***** Asier Basterretxea (Big Donkey)
**** Harry Blind (bergwerk)
*** Herman Melville (Alkworld)
** Isaac Gutierez (Romoc Riders)
* a surprise rider

Points classement:

*** Cadmael Ismael (CircleCycle)
** Kjell Skoglund (T-Mobile-A)
* a surprise rider

Mountain classement:

*** the one who wants it
** another one
* a surprise rider

Youth classement

*** Herman Melville (Alkworld)
** Issac Gutierez (Romoc Riders)
* a surprise rider

Team classement

*** Alkworld
** Big Donkey
* Gipfelstuermer
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Alkworld » Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:47 pm

The manager of Team Alkworld just had to stop a fight in the team bus. Apparently, four riders have been told they would be captain at the Tour. Especially Manrique is pissed now that he saw that even the press thinks Melville would be captain. Cornet on the other hand already threatened to take his buddy Champion and ride the Arenberg stage alone with him. Furthermore, Lesna had high hopes, but seems to bury them early.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by team fl » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:39 am

Not really a rest day to day, but a transfer day for the teams to get from Denmark to France. Anyway, time to summarize the first three stages and have some statistics:

Stage one, the 13 km long ITT, was won be Romain Page from CircleCycle, a very much expected win. He still wears yellow and carries it over to France. Depending on his teams decisions, he could also wear it a day longer. Stage two and three were flat stages, something for the sprinters, well, something for Cadmael Ical, also from CircleCycle. Consequently, he won the second stage. On the third stage it looked like another Ical win, but the early escape group worked well together and managed to still have a 16 seconds advantage at the finish. Out of that group, it was Roman Horava from Romoc Rider who had the strongest legs in the end. Regarding the classements, everything is still close together, with Cadmael Ical already having a decent advantage in the points classement. But long story short, here are the numbers:

General classement (3/21 stages):

01. 00:00 Romain Page (CircleCycle)
02. 00:17 Branco Boom (Romoc Riders)
03. 00:18 Cesar Manrique (Alkworld
04. 01:17 Charles Drinkwater (Big Donkey)
05. 01:26 Siim Liivik (T-Mobile-A)
06. 01:37 Oleksandr Outschakov (Gipfelstuermer)
07. 01:40 Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)
08. 01:48 Leopold Laeser (Gipfelstuermer)
09. 01:52 Archibald Short (Big Donkey)
10. 01:56 Bob Smith (CircleCycle)

Points classement:

01. 072 Cadmael Ical (CircleCycle)
02. 059 Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)
03. 053 Oleksander Outschakov (Gipfelstuermer)

Mountain classement:

01. 030 Peter Pommeroy (bergwerk)
02. 018 Milan Rezek (Romoc Riders)
03. 027 Romain Page (CirlceCycle)

Youth classement:

01. Branco Boom (Romoc Riders)
02. Oleksandr Outschakov (Gipfelstuermer)
03. Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)

Team classement:

01. 00:00 CircleCycle
02. 00:08 Romoc Riders
03. 00:11 Alkworld

Stage wins by riders:

1 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Cadmael Ical (CircleCycle)
1 - Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)

Stage wins by teams:

2 - CircleCycle
1 - Romoc Riders
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:58 pm

CC missed the second sprint, not completely surprising really.
With the best sprinter and the best train, Mobster offline on the first sprint day, it was always going to be hard to control sprint 2 as well.
Situation should be better for him (not that it's bad, 1 stage for Ical already) with Mobster online. But then there's only really tomorrow, possibly, for Ical-Skoglund. After that it's pavé and uphill finishes for a while. Even the 2 official sprint stages after the alps are far from a sure thing at c4f

Still, green Ical favorite, Cornet the danger, but not having mountain... Armleder maybe, but far back, Pommeroy only 1 more mountain than Ical and no team for it.

GC, disagree with FLs check

Basterretxea-Blind-Melville in this order... Simply sorted by mountain skill?

Basterretxea with most mountains, bonifications, occasional time gain, should win time over the 2 others. But Melville is young and might soon be at 85, which makes it already much more difficult to drop him. But for the moment still 84.
Including the TT and these mountain skills Basterretxea should indeed be minimally ahead of Melville and then Blind. Melville with 45" in the 2 TTs (+/-).
Teams? Nobody has any, 70-64(soon 65)-62 for the Donkey. 68+68 with not much flat for Bergwerk. 72-65 (chances for training) 61 (chances for downtraining) for Alkworld. So mountain support, nobody really has much.

But then FL seems to have ignored the pavé stage, and that what makes Melville the favorite I think. 59.4 for Melville and Blind. 55.6 for Basterretxea. That means that Basterretxea will get a medium-sized to big to huge chunk of time on Wednesday. Now Blind doesn't have the team, he has to hope to be with Melville, if not he loses time too. Big Donkey has the team. 87-86-85-84 flat stars, then 82-79-79. Good flat team, no doubt. The problem is that Alkworld's team is stronger. 89-87-86-86-85-84-82-79 plus Melville. Riding for stage and GC will weaken the team a bit, but not too much really. 89 with 70 sprint and second best pavé, best is a team mate, makes for a rather easy strategy to get both, stage and time for Melville.

Donkey who can almost forget the stage with less pavé and much less sprint has the advantage of being able to ride for only one goal, but with 1 flat rider less (74 Gamboa) despite having a good team, it will be an extremely hard and costly stage.

Normally Melville wins enough time there to then be able to manage the advantage, but of course he'll try to gain more time. Blind, question of form, fighting and luck, so if the form is similar I predict a time loss, maybe less severe than for Basterretxea too.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:04 pm

Always annoying these rest days after only 3 stages including 1 ITT... this year that's the case for all three Grand Tours, which is a shame. I mean, if you really want to start the Tour de France in Denmark, fine. But if you start in Denmark, then just start in Copenhagen, direction southwest immediately. I checked. It is roughly 1,000km from Copenhagen to France. Include some smaller transfers (50km a day), make it long stages because it's flat anyway (200km/day) and you have exactly 4 stages from Denmark through Germany to arrive in France. 4 stages. No restday needed. Easy. But of course ASO wants to make a lot of money, does it like this and ends up with these stupid 3-day "Grand Departs" which should probably be called "Boring Departs". And Greenpeace should also sue ASO for hosting the biggest cycling race, but having more transfer km than race km these days. Ridiculous. Monsieur Prudhomme, step down and let me take over!

Ok, so much my complaints to ASO and RCS Sport! Now back to C4F: Great to have 8 teams signed up here despite holiday season and Flash/App breakdown due to a PHP update which was never communicated to Alk or me. Under these circumstances, less than 5 teams seemed realistic. 8 teams is great and since our React version survived the update, after an emergency surgery by Alkworld, things should only get better from here.

The race itself was more exciting than the ASO design, despite the Windkante feature missing in C4F. (Alk and I plan it for 2023. Or whenever the React Version is ready for new features. So could take longer. But who knows.) Stage 2 saw many attacks, even if unsuccessful in the end. Stage 3 saw an escape coming through surprisingly. We had the Ukrainian hope Oleksandr Outschakov in the group. Others could have let him win to send a peace signal to the country, but he had no chance in the sprint of the 4-man escape. His DS gave him the wrong instructions. Great win for the Romoc Riders, I have to say, well done.

We'll continue to fight for a stage win and would like to thank FL for the statistics and the favo check. I wanted to complain about the favo check, but he got it all right, except you could have named the *surprise rider Cesar Manrique perhaps (for every jersey except white). At least this type of rider deserves to be named somewhere.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by CircleCycle » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:31 pm

CC giving a (small) comeback for Le Tour!
As previously stated I remembered the game at 30th of June, managed to log in and see that half of the team was still in shape. After selling the old riders and deciding to join the afternoon race it was about team selection.

From the "old" team left were: Smith, Ical, Abarca Gonzalez, Greenidge, Atangana, Balakrishnan and Cousin Jambaar Faye! Not too bad, and 2 spots left for new riders.
First we signed the Firpo half-brothers, Johnny and Charlie, but apparently they still had some important things to do in Miami. Some rumours about a greek guy who wants to play poker with Johnny.
The team manager then tried to find a somewhat decent mountain rider but was not successful. Instead the french TT-specialist Romain Page was hired before going to Denmark. Still one rider was missing, but thanks to Ramesh Balakrishnan (1.2 one-point-two) and a few phonecalls we found the 9th rider in a cafe in Denmark. Lars Gronbech joined the team just a few hours before the start of the tour.

Page and Ical with stagewins already, thats good. 2 goals remaining: The 2nd TT stage and the fight for the red lantern with Cousin Jambaar.
Green Jersey? yeah, I don't see Ical as big favo there, lets see how many stages I am going to miss in week 2+3.
Getting the first sprint stage was already a bit over the expectations, not getting a chance in stage 3 was quite logical. The team was really weakened the day before.

Today we try again, and in the next few stages we will sit back and enjoy watching the first interesting gc-stages.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:15 am

Yesterday the Arenberg stage. Would deserve a full-fledged, detailed report. But didn't pay enough attention and the lazy developers have not yet implemented the replay function... and as everyone knows, normally I only write about how great the Gipfelstuermer team is and even me living in a fantasy world can't say that about yesterday.... I try anyway with some things I remember from the race.

First: The pavé discussion. Normally I don't need to defend RKL as he is an experienced designer and there are of course some things you can complain about. Mintact too long. Agrees to disagree with me on city pavé. Thinks France has annexed parts of Belgium... we should discuss those things, but too much pavé? Must come from people who don't recognize who is designing how much. And must come from people who don't like pavé. And if you don't like pavé, you don't like cycling.

Why? Because only pavé creates stories like these: Most of us, including me, went into this TdF thinking Asier Basterretxea might be best-positioned for GC. At least FL put him there in the favo check. Nobody complained. Ah no, Big Donkey actually told us: Training. Pavé Stage. Melville. Training happened. But Asier still 1 point ahead, Big Donkey very experienced GC-team... seemed he could still be in a good position with the number of mountain arrivals we will see. But then the pavé stage.

Nothing happened in the beginning. No early escape, unlike real life, where escape is a great place to be in pavé races. Would be another nice feature for the future: Some indicator that shows whether 1) roads are narrow or wide 2) in bad condition or good condition and 3) winding or straight. Then energy usage should depend a bit on that. Because currently energy-usage is larger in smaller groups. But if roads are narrow, in bad condition and winding... should perhaps be same energy-usage or even the other way around. Advantage for small groups. Ok, that's for the far, far future. Just like Windkante Feature.

So no early escape, at some point Romoc tried but it was too late to get a big advantage. So it turned out to be Alkworld for captain Melville vs. Big Donkey for captain Basterretxea. And bergwerk not with the team to do much for Harry Blind, who was able to stay with Melville all the time, if I saw it correctly. Basterretxea lost roughly 2 minutes in the end. Not as bad as Big Donkey thought (at least that's what he mentioned if I remember correctly). But significant for the GC fight of course. Not going to be easy to drop Melville on all climbs and Melville also 53 TT. So I think today FL favo check would look a bit different.

The Gipfelstuermer's didn't have their best day, either. Tried to sieb and ride hard. But Alkworld train was always coming with the speed of sound from behind. And FL always had the stronger team/better numbers in front. CC also had the stronger team in front. Even though we made him ride hard the day before. So again impressive from him. In the end, we weren't able to do much and didn't believe Gerbi could ever get away from Fortunato Fontdevila (Team FL) with his incredible sprint skill and strong helper Kevin Klinkenberg. Maybe too pessimistic. Try to attack with Big Donkey or with one of the CC flat riders... but still FL seemed able to control it completely. So big GW Fontdevilla. Very nice win. Certainly one of the Grand Tours stage wins that you will remember.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by team fl » Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:10 am

Thanks for the report. Two things (replies):
So I think today FL favo check would look a bit different.
Indeed. It was a very lazy favo check. After having a good look at it again and the stages, it would have looked differently. Anyway, It provoked reactions, which is a good thing. I think. :)
The Gipfelstuermer's didn't have their best day, either. Tried to sieb and ride hard. But Alkworld train was always coming with the speed of sound from behind. And FL always had the stronger team/better numbers in front. CC also had the stronger team in front. Even though we made him ride hard the day before. So again impressive from him. In the end, we weren't able to do much and didn't believe Gerbi could ever get away from Fortunato Fontdevila (Team FL) with his incredible sprint skill and strong helper Kevin Klinkenberg. Maybe too pessimistic. Try to attack with Big Donkey or with one of the CC flat riders... but still FL seemed able to control it completely. So big GW Fontdevilla. Very nice win. Certainly one of the Grand Tours stage wins that you will remember.
Going into the stage, I could think of a lot of different race developments (early group, Alkworld eying for the stage win with Cornet, much harder siebs, etc.). In the end, this was my most desired one: late escape from the peloton, chased early enough but not by me, Alkworld going fully for GC, even with Champion and Cornet, same for Big Donkey with Bradman. CC was a bit worrying, but only due to the number of riders left in front, none of them being a particular threat. Three things were a bit surprising to me, but fortunately supported my stage chances: 1) T-Mobile-A riding in the group of stage favourties, 2) you sending Gerbi back to ride for the classics and 3) Klinkenberg siebing everybody on the last pavé sector (0***) besides Fontdevila and Greenidge. The rest was mainly the attempt not to make a stupid mistake. But yes, very nice win. The stage was highlighted for my team as soon as I saw it. Very happy :).
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:32 pm

The GC thing was clear though, regardless of if and when Melville trains. No impact on yesterday at all. 2', of course I didn't ride it perfectly, big mistake was the lack of fighting for the tired pullers, so waited for them twice, 2-3" back each, so let's already make that 10", could be more if the next km was pavé too... Stupid. Then not using a strong fresh puller on the *, but thought I don't do that, cost quite a bit of time each time, but thought I wait with my stars for the end. STratetic mistake there maybe, just thought that if it's 1'30" or 2' in the end isn't SUCH A big difference. Especially with Blind staying with Melville, I thought he would fight on some **, then pay for it in the final and lose 30", but clearly good form for him. So with Blind still with Melville, Asier 2' back, so a bit more freedom, to at least go for stages and win time. With 1'30" less, thought in the end evens up probably, lose less today, but still a lot, a bit more freedom later, will possibly end at the same place soon? Maybe not.

Not letting Bradman wait, ok, another 5-10" I guess, but see above. And while it was planned to ride 100% for Asier, I had a sudden inspiration on that pavé section, why not just try, with Gerbi maybe following, gaining time on the pavé (go one earlier better of course) could possibly even be enough. But I admit I hadn't still realized that FL had a 70 sprinter there :lol: So no no, no good there. But generally 2 minutes, no problem, was afraid of losing more, 3', of course losing less better, but couldn't really predict how much it would actually be, with 2', ok, sounds ok I would have said before the stage. Just look at the flat teams... mine is good, Alks is superb.

GC prediction again, 86-84 is not autamatic to catch up, Melville following less of a problem, but with blocks, riding up mountains from a certain moment on, still looks good to keep it. But ok, people not really involved in the GC not looking at it closely, possible to miss it.

Blind now is a solid third favorite.
Third? Yes, Manrique, I missed him too, or dismissed him actually. 72, pff, he loses lots in the many mountains. Realized some time during the stage yesterday that with Blind and Asier being isolated, no second climber, mountains often will be slow, getting thos 11' for me not easy at all actually. And for Blind neither, so Manrique actually now looks very good.

Gutierrez another guy I dismissed too early, he can profit from the possible Melville-Blind-Basterretxea impasse, but enough still seems difficult.

1 Melville
2 Manrique but partly Alks decision possibly
3 Blind
4 Basterretxea
5 Gutierrez

Before today, seems to be changing a bit right now.
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Alkworld » Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:28 pm

Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:15 am
Nothing happened in the beginning. No early escape, unlike real life, where escape is a great place to be in pavé races. Would be another nice feature for the future: Some indicator that shows whether 1) roads are narrow or wide 2) in bad condition or good condition and 3) winding or straight. Then energy usage should depend a bit on that. Because currently energy-usage is larger in smaller groups. But if roads are narrow, in bad condition and winding... should perhaps be same energy-usage or even the other way around. Advantage for small groups. Ok, that's for the far, far future. Just like Windkante Feature.
Good news: I put this already in the prototype I made for c4f-3.0, but as always, a looong way to go ...

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:34 am

Trying to continue race reports and stats before I forget...

Stage 6 were 220km from Binche in Belgium to Longwy, very close to Luxembourg and Germany, just around the corner to the Gipfelstuermer headquarters and home training region. So the team was extra motivated to take a stage win here. Taking the maillot jaune out of an escape also seemed possible as most riders were still close together in GC. This year, we weren't able to take the maillot jaune on stage 1 (a coup that JJ achieved in 2019 and Zevenbergen in 2021), but taking it later in the race would be nice, too. Last but not least, the Arenberg stage was a tough one, and so we were optimistic that an escape could make it on that day. We were not the only ones. Every team escaped, if I remember correctly. Or was TMA missing because he was off? We managed to put three riders in a huge escape: Gagneux, Outschakov, and Vespa. Alkworld chased, so it was Gagneux in escape vs. Cornet in Peloton for 50km or so. Cornet the stronger guy, so we sent Fischer and Gerbi as support to the escape. That was the situation for the whole stage. Our five guys riding in escape, Alkworld's seven guys riding in peloton. We tried to find collaboration with other teams in escape. Maybe Romoc for Alasko. Maybe bergwerk for Pommeroy. Maybe CC for Abarca. At the very end CC rode a few km. Romoc also. The escape arrived in Longwy more than 4' before the peloton and Vespa was indeed the fastest on the final ramp. But even with his strong engine, only 1" before Abarca, who looked fantastic on this day and conquered the maillot jaune, again for CC, who had only lost it to Alk the day before.

Stage 7 was the Planche des Belles Filles. Difficult to simulate its 24% ramp in C4F, but with 10% it was a climber's stage of course. Bergwerk and Big Donkey controlled the entire stage for their leaders Blind and Basterretxea, so the brave escape from Team FL and Romoc never really got a chance. On the Planche des Belles Filles, Blind attacked first, but was chased by Basterretxea and Melville. Basterretxea overtook Blind on the last km, taking the stage win and the bonus seconds. For us it was an uneventful stage and the riders had their time to recover in peloton and grupetto together with Alkworld's dropped riders and other pavé specialists who were still tired from the Arenberg stage. In the front, Vespa tried his best to stay with the climbers but lost 1'12". A bit disappointing to lose so much on a short climb and not being able to win any time on Manrique, but very satisfying to pull on the maillot jaune after the stage. Biggest success for 35-year-old Vespa since his win in Liege. He'll enjoy the day in yellow, no matter how long he can keep it.

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Cadmael Ical (CircleCycle)
1 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)
1 - Fortunato Fontdevilla (Team FL)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Asier Basterretxea (Big Donkey)

Stage wins by teams:
3 - CircleCycle
1 - Romoc Riders
1 - Team FL
1 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - Big Donkey

Days in Maillot Jaune:
4 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Cesar Manrique (Alkworld)
1 - Hugo AbarcaGonzalez (CircleCycle)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:38 am

Rest day over, back to work, first in the thread.

Basterretxea with the stage on the Super(boring) Planche. Wanted a stage first, now have it, now all ok. Blind and Bergwerk got their stage on Sunday then, so they are happy too. Would have preferred to win that one actually if I could chose between the 2, better both, of course, but ok, we take one.

GC:
Hugo Abarca in yellow, but he will lose it unless he gains another big chunk of time a few times. Ok for me
Vespa: 6'05" back, losing time to Manrique so for the moment no GC danger at all.
Manrique: 7'13" back, he is the first guy that can challenge for yellow in Paris. Very good form now, will suffer in the Pyrenees, will lose time to Vespa there, but since Vespa needs 6' or so advantage for the TT... lots of reserves.

Blind: 1' behing Manrique. Gaining time, will need +/- 6' to him too for the TT, this seems very possible now, but still not automatic. Time gain on Manrique so far ok, not outstanding. but quite good. The bigger danger still Melville.

Melville: 1'30" behind Manrique, 30" behind Blind. On paper wins 37" vs Blind in the TT. Same form, same luck and ignoring the better downhill Blind has. In practice he will win more, since it's obvious that Melville has form later. He's was bleeding time until now, the question is when will that change.

Gutierrez: 2' behind Manrique. But he's the guy who will normally just end up 4th or 5th in GC, what his skills suggest. With Melville's form the impasse that could have been possible, all looking at each other, now probably won't happen.

Basterretxea: 2'55" behind Manrique. Idiot, Blind-Melville-Gutierrez in nice 30" splits, only he thinks he wants to be special.
Basically he is 2' behind Blind and Melville, has to find 2' on both. The question is when and how, hopes of course that the Melville problems continue.

Favorite still Melville, Blind needs to gain more time, he really wants to have quite a bit over 1', because he can expect to lose time not only in the TT, more than on paper, but also in the pyrenees. So it's 2 + today in the Alps for him, 2 pyrenees for Melville. Looks interesting.

Basterretxea for the moment is looking on from behind. Needs to attack, as he did on Sunday, while he then waited for Blind, he still needed to do the attack for the time gain, if nobody goes Melville loses less time. On Sunday catching Pommeroy, right, wrong? Could be wrong, Pommeroy ahead, wonderful. Disguised as a mountain jersey chaser, really there for a Blind attack on the Col de la Croix. Perfect situation for the Donkey, follow Blind, profit from Pommeroy with Blind, win more time on Melville! The problem is I don't think it was that, he wasn't disguised, he actually was going for the stupid mountain jersey.... so catching him completely right, actually should have sucked on Blind much more then and beat him for the stage. If a guy that is in the fight for yellow decides not to ride for the stage, or the GC, with his leader, but for the mountain jersey with a different rider, then I should really ride much harder against him. So think it was right, even if I would have loved to let Alk chase BW. Problem is Alk probably would take that gamble and assume Pommeroy the dumb really goes for the GPM and nothing else... and think he would have been right. So chase hard, no stupid Pommeroy in the escape pulling the possible stage win away from Basterretxea and his own teammate Blind.

But we'll see what happens now, now that Blind has the mountains jersey...

For sure the Donkey thinks he has chances on Wednesday and Thursday, stage win and time gain, problem is he will come on late to the app on Thursday and then stay on the app... We'll see how it goes.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:09 pm

2 more stages done, escape win for Romoc, win for Donkey. Excellent 2 days for Alkworld, big step towars the GC win. And very bad collaboration between BW and BD...

Yesterday, Donkeys fault? He would have won the stage (if the final is ridden the same way, which isn't guaranteed, I might have managed to put following in maybe) if he had worked for Basterretxea. But he didn't. Why?
1) Wasn't completely sure it is for climbers. Certainly chances, but not 100% sure classics can't get the climbers back, not really sure a blue riding M. pulling M. on the 7 can't then bring back the attackers later with M. pulling M. this time. But certainly there was a chance, just not a 100% climbers chance. And climbers chance IMO here pretty even between BW and BD, 5 finish, more sprint BW....
2) My team. Which has 3 guys with 50 or less mountain, 2 of them no reg. So big danger today and tomorrow, rather save them for these 2 days AND for the rest of the tour, don't risk losing them for a 30% or so chance (60% climbers? then 50-50 between BW and me?)
3) Then BW rode, and rode, so after an admittely rather long time just watching in amazement, why does he want this today that much, concentrate on tomorrow I decided to join with Tran, half way through the stage. OK, here we go. Then BW says: I'm just controlling because I don't want another classic ahead of me. For me that means: Won't really ride faster, after all not my goal to win, but to control the stage. So since I was reluctant to ride anyway, see 1+2, and a little bit 4, I went out again immediately. If BW doesn't want to go full power later to go for the stage (which is what I assumed but in retrospect was probably wrong) then that means I have to go fast with my guys, Tran a bit, then Carpinteiro, at this point no big danger to end under reg, but with the long energy sapping climb at the end I could miscalculate... So out.
4) I don't mind escapes winning that much either, often we don't have enough escapes winning at c4f in the afternoon, if for once they get through regularly, why not let them. But really small reason, if I had seen my winning chances a bit higher, wouldn't have cared and ridden.

Basically we needed better communication, I have to say more clearly why I'm not that eager to ride, then BW has to say that he will ride for stage, not just for something weird like "don't want more classics ahead of me" (while trying to pull the same classics for Pommeroy the stage before)

Then today:

No Pommeroy in escape. Grrr, today I would have had 0 problems with him going, for a moment was even thinking to put 2 guys on him, one of them Carpinteiro, to help getting away in case Alk chased hard. But didn't finally, just Pommeroy alone, let Alk work (unless Manrique is there, grrr) seemed fine to me.
Easy escape, very fortunately. Donkey rides alone, BW claims he did enough yesterday. Unhappy Donkey... see his flat guys, the logical way to cooperate would be together early. Then from the Télégraphe-Galibier on I can do most of it, we're not going to ride that one up with his 54 mountain guys. Use them early, together with the Donkey, but if it's necessary ride more than the Donkey, smaller risk of problems to be eliminated these 2 days.
Donkey rides the climb, sieb with Rossi, then ride with Carpinteiro, dropping Claremont. If BW isn't helping when he would be helpful, no need to have him around really, this 59 guy with lots of reg. Otherwise I might consider waiting, depending a lot on the Alks though, fewer much better.
Riding, but not paying attention, so countersieb and sleeping and reminiscing Donkey doesn't realize there was a anti 60-80 sieb, all Donkey helpers except Drinkwater dropped, so no immediate tempo with his great stars like Short or more importantly Rossi. BW in front isolated, but wastes a little bit of energy getting mountain points for Blind, grrrrr. Then chasing in the downhill, coming back with his 2 68 classics, among them my ennemy Pommeroy who always does what he shouldn't do:)
Last climb: Ridden well by Melville, no risk, tempo the whole climb, no gambling on nobody hanging on him either, just riding. Donkey waiting for BW to attack, plan then attack after him, carry him up a bit (I never had any doubts that I Asier would be the strongest here, had a helper, has 86, didn't waste energy for mountain points) attack him the last km, win the stage, gain another 20" or so on Melville. IMO possible, at least for Asier. But without Blind doesn't make that much sense, my brilliant strategy after I realized Melvilles late form, that by now should be obvious was to collaborate with Blind, put him ahead of Melville by 1'30" +, ideally ending up at least at the same level as Melville myself, then with Melville forced to ride offensively to gain at least 45" to Blind jump on that train and hope to gain some more seconds there... So for me it was always better (except la Planche were I just wanted the stage, to sleep more soundly and hadn't fully realized the low form maybe yet, (don't remember, but possible I'm slow)) to have Blind with me or just a few seconds behind me, to ensure he gains enough time. But Blind does nothing, doesn't seem interested in GC at all, waits. Then even goes in tempo, what for, you weren't going to win the stage anyway. That was Asier and nobody else. Just attack! Even earlier, ok, the energy waste before, no helper, so probably less energy than Melville, but as we saw when Blind finally went in the last km, still 2" ahead. Anyway, tempo, so finally the Donkey went, 5", up to 7" the next km, then forgot to do the extra attack, cost me 2" or possibly even 3" . But doesn't matter much, the great strategy seems dead, have a new one already anyway.

GC now: Blind 41" behind CCs Hugo.
Vespa 31" behind Blind
Melville 35" So still ahead on paper just considering the TT.
Basterretxea 1'07" behind Melville, so 1'42" behind Blind.
Gutierrez 1'42" behind Melville, 2'17" behind Blind.
Manrique lost a very satisfiying 4' to Basterretxea today (but without the Melville form it would be much less I think, it's the Melville form that hurts Manrique, otherwise very dangerous, like this without escapes not that much anymore) Manrique now 3'04" behind Blind.

So huge step towards yellow in Paris for Melville today. He rode the final well, did exactly what he had to do. Blind should never have ridden, but attacked, anticipate Asier, ride for GC, stage after wasting energy and being isolated looked hard. Basterretxea should have gone earlier too, but was waiting for Blind. So it's Blind's fault. GC further away for both now, Donkey NOW thinking about the mountains jersey. That's what Blind forces me to do after all.

Tomorrow Donkey off for the first 60km then on only on mobile, walking to the station (so not much action) then in a train, if it's too full not much to do, later changing trains and walking. So not much action for sure by the Donkey, but I will try to do as much as possible for my team. From close to the start to the Croix de Fer... Tran for sure will have green tempo (so that if he's not the last somebody behind him can come back) if dropped, hope somebody waits for him!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:18 pm

Stats updated

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Cadmael Ical (CircleCycle)
2 - Asier Basterretxea (Big Donkey)
1 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)
1 - Fortunato Fontdevilla (Team FL)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Harry Blind (bergwerk)
1 - Giacomo Gerbi (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Milan Rezek (Romoc Riders)


Stage wins by teams:
3 - CircleCycle
2 - Romoc Riders
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Big Donkey
1 - Team FL
1 - bergwerk

Days in Maillot Jaune:
5 - Hugo AbarcaGonzalez (CircleCycle)
4 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Cesar Manrique (Alkworld)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:58 pm

Yesterday the Alpe d'Huez stage. Or better say the Galibier - Croix de Fer - Alpe d'Huez stage. Three monumental climbs. Early escape goes with 2 FL's, 2 TMA's, 2 Gips, 1 CC. Peloton let's us go, but Lamparter from TMA the strongest guy, so FL and I let TMA work a bit more. But I helped a bit with Laeser pulling Outschakov, too, hoping that there might be a situation where Outschakov is useful as a helper later in the race.

Advantage of the escape before Croix de Fer was almost 15', so we tried to create the situation ourselves. Abbiati and Vespa attacked on Croix de Fer, followed by Smith. The spectators (mainly Schartner Bombe) were going wild. What a move! The kind of follower we had hoped for. CC with Greenidge in escape. Smith for stage. Vespa for GC. Good combination. On top of Croix de Fer, the Abbiati/Vespa/Smith trio had something above 3'30'' advantage and on the downhill Outschakov and Greenidge helped to bring the advantage above 4' before Alpe D'Huez.

On the climb, it was Smith/Vespa vs. Blind, Melville and Basterretxea. Strong collaboration from the climbers there. Melville for GC. Thought the others might attack him, but Blind was happy with trying to get into yellow. Basterretxea also rode with them, hoping for stage win probably, then attacked on the +12. Not enough to catch Smith and Vespa, but only 14'' missing for Basterretxea in the end. So stage win for Smith. Very strong from CC. He doesn't only win with Ical. Page and Smith also delivered. For Vespa it was heartbreak in the end. The plan was to go back into maillot jaune with this brave attack. But 3'' were missing in the end. Blind takes the yellow.

Now three flat-ish / hilly stages. Well, tomorrow a small mountain arrival somehow. Unusual route from ASO actually. Often they try to put the big mountain stages on the weekend, but this year that didn't work out for them. Let's see what will happen on these three stages.


Situation in GC
0:00 Harry Blind (bergwerk)
+3'' Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
+37'' Herman Melville (Alkworld)
+1'30'' Asier Basterretxea (Big Donkey)
+3'24'' Isaac Gutierez (Romoc Riders)
+4'24'' Bob Smith (CircleCycle)
+6'21'' Cesar Manrique (Alkworld)

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Cadmael Ical (CircleCycle)
2 - Asier Basterretxea (Big Donkey)
1 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Roman Horava (Romoc Riders)
1 - Fortunato Fontdevilla (Team FL)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Harry Blind (bergwerk)
1 - Giacomo Gerbi (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Milan Rezek (Romoc Riders)
1 - Bob Smith (CircleCycle)

Stage wins by teams:
4 - CircleCycle
2 - Romoc Riders
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Big Donkey
1 - Team FL
1 - bergwerk

Days in Maillot Jaune:
5 - Hugo AbarcaGonzalez (CircleCycle)
4 - Romain Page (CircleCycle)
1 - Cesar Manrique (Alkworld)
1 - Vittore Vespa (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Harry Blind (bergwerk)
GIP MASTERPLAN
Gameplay: Flexible Min-Tact. Improve Sprint System. Windkante.
Marketing: Re-attract old players. Advertisement. Social Media.
New Players: Fair Start Budget, New Tutorial.
Fairplay: Improve FPC features, Fair Prize Money Disribution.

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Re: Tour de France 2022, 14h

Post by Robyklebt » Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:21 pm

Second week turned out to be Donkey-week.

3rd Megève
1st Granon
3rd Alpe d'Huez
2nd St. Etienne
1st Mende
1st Carcassonne

Could have won 6 of 6... but ok if I had won Megève and/or Alpe d'Huez I wouldn't have gone into the escape after the Alpes.

2 first stages already reported, Alpe, on late, then just mobile, on the computer I'd have won it I think. Not used to mobile, faster and better reaction on computer. Too bad, wouldn't have minded winning there.
GC attack by Vespa, finally failed, but stage for the group, Smith.

St. Etienne, escape, Carpinteiro for Short, no need for leaders, everybody with breaks for pullers (wasn't tactical I think, just in/out, timing problems, at least for me) finish Carpinteiro tries, goes away with Boom. Feeling was Boom might have less energy, or the same, so with sprint from the front and Romoc maybe not completely understanding how low energy works ... better chances than Short vs Zico in the back? Sprint from front, 14 left after the 50 gone for sprint. Lost 0... But Boom had 70... grrr. And Short won in the back.

More GC action, Vespa, Blind follows. BW and Donks chase. Manrique in front, Alk not chasing. Only in the end after Blind was dropped, losing yellow and 20", but winning 19" to Melville and Asier. Finally BW shouldn't have ridden but Alk should have. 19" good, but won't be enough though.

Mende, escape, first one a no-go for the Donkey. Stage with Asier possible, but again that misnamed Ukrainian? There for Vespa... Manrique, ok, but Manrique there the day before, no intention of letting of letting him back in. Hard enough for Asier without him. Caught, using Drinkwater, put Rossi and Tran in the next one. Tran as non-pulling puller. 2 reasons, one seeing how it works, if Asier becomes an option that doesn't involve too much work... Asier. The other one charging Rossi, unfit start, slightly only and Romoc just the better sprinter. Botero. More sprint, more mountain. So attack on the climb. Hope to get away stay away. But wasn't anti-group, was soon clear that I would go for it. But then thought better load Rossi more (don't remember when I put Tran on helping, not immediately but fairly early after forgetting it at first, the old I thought about it so it's done mistake..) plus if needed, since CC insisted on keeping the group within a certain distance, I could use Tran later. And to cover before the second last climb. There the plan was to drop the others, only 3 go to the end. Worked, tried an attack, Botero to strong, Lamparter tried too. Sprint, very lucky win for Rossi, but went in the right moment too. Lamparter early, 200? If Botero goes on him, I have a chance, he went there, just enough to win for Rossi 8 out of 10 times it's Botero, even with more energy. Needed a bigger advantage to really have a good chance. But worked well with luck!

Yesterday Gamboa. Hang on Frits, win. Worked a bit when it seemed critical, but didn't think I could overtake Frits in 50 meters. 4 less sprint. +1 and more energy, somehow was enough. Profited from the fast tempo, so more energy which together with the higher flat (I actually think flat plays too big a role in getting sprint wheels) got me the wheel.

GC: Looks easy for Melville. Get 30 seconds on Blind to sleep soundly before the TT. Don't let Asier find a Donkey trail to sneak away. Next 3 stages. Already to Mende Melville dropped Blind and attacked as far as Basterretxea. Not sure how and why...
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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