Afternoon Giro - The one and only

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Gipfelstuermer
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue May 19, 2020 6:31 pm

Stage 10 - Hilly - From San Salvo to Tortoreto

Very unusual, chaotic stage...

6 escapists from 3 teams (Aixteam, PG Force and XC-runners youth) on the road, Big Donkey controlled for his strong team, especially for super strong Tulio Armas with his 76-80. He was expected to be the strongest classic after the 11% hill shortly before the finish. Our team joined the chase, not necessarily thinking that JJ could come back after the hill, but with Theo in the team, there was a chance for the win. Thought FL will ride for Looser and maybe it's Looser vs. Theo in the final sprint. Both 64 sprint, so why not make some tempo. FL didn't help, probably expected Big Donkey to win or simply preferred to save energy for a possible mass sprint tomorrow.

So far so normal, then, shortly before the final hill.... SERVER BREAKDOWN FOR HOW LONG? 10 MINUTES?....

After 10 minutes, race continues, totally chaotic situation. Managers missed some km's, some km's seemed to be skipped by the system, absolutely chaotic. A Sangiu rider more than 1 minute in front with only 10km left! Could he win after the Server Breakdown? Nooo! He stopped after the sieb in order to help in first group! First group with Armas of course, but also with Seth McCloud (PG Force). Second group with Theo and with Volodko. Third group with JJ and maglia rosa -wearing Mathieu Pincemail.

Relevant part was really the chaos here, and FL offline, who had two strong classics in front... Volodko and Theo came back into the first group, but Seth McCloud was the one to set the deadly attack in front (he must be close to 100 form). Volodko and Armas attacked afterwards, but couldn't catch him. At the same time, I dropped Theo to ride for JJ in Pincemail group. We catched everyone except the super strong Seth McCloud who arrived 1'' ahead of a surprisingly large group. GW Seth McCloud!

Surprisingly good result for maglia ciclamino as JJ secures 2nd place in the sprint for 2nd place. No regrets, because that was only possible with the chaotic situation and FL offline. Never expected that chance for JJ.

Now ciclamino fight? Spohr 148, Weber 148, Tuttobene 146, JJ 136. Better than expected, but with 2 flat stages, where a sprinter can collect 50 points in one day, JJ would still need a lot of luck to beat the top3-sprinters.


Days in maglia rosa by riders:
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
3 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
2 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
4 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)

Stage wins by teams:
2 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
1 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - PG Force
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gaurain rx
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by gaurain rx » Wed May 20, 2020 9:11 pm

Stage 11 : Again chaotic and unsusual..

... but not for the same reason at yesterday. No early escape for the first time in this Giro. the potential escapers maybe tired (Big Donkey) or lacking of motivation (Xc, Sport, Feiting) against the strong and efficient chase the sprinter team offered during the former flat stages. Anyway, around km 30, Antonio Vittori (Sangiu) went for a 150 km solo and took a lead of around 14'... But Gobert from Aixteam was seeking to get the moutain points today and counterattacked with a teammate around km 60. It was not from the taste of Pokemon who began chasing in the peloton. Gobert took the moutain point still but Feiting Siebing decided to try using the little hill in the middle of the stage to drop some strong sprinters in the back. Spohr, Tuttobene, DeRoy, Jefferson landed in the first group but Weber (Poke) and further back Marshall (Aixteam), Stoneman (Hainaut), Blud (Luques) were a bit behind. Fl and Falke decided not to ride in the first group, and after a couples of kilometers, every sprinter were back in the main group..

Everybody expected a sprint of Kings with Ciclamino jersey as target but Lutz Neuman (Moja) decided to do a terrific tempo on the last 5 of the day 23kms before the finish. Weber, Marshall, Darragh, Stoneman and Blud were irremediably dropped and couldn't comeback anymore in the first group. From there on, Team Fl and Falkenbier rode together to avoid every late attack. Davies (Pokemon) managed to escape but alone, it was impossible for him to keep the gap. Feiting and Gipfel's big flat rider surely missed there their best opportunity to reach the finish line in front of the peloton.

In the sprint, FL and Gipfel went for their own train, Tuttobene from Falkenbier changed of wheel with a perfect timing to go in the slipstream of Spohr (Team Fl). Jacob Jefferson (Gipfel) went from 250m but was unable to keep the gap he had oppened when Spohr (Team Fl) launched his final effort at 150m from the finish line. Tuttobene (Falkenbier) smelled blood and overtook Spohr in the last 50m to win the stage and get the ciclamino jersey.

Gipfelstuermer
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri May 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Stage 13 - "Normally escape stage but with Jefferson..."

Good quote from Roby to summarize this stage! That's everything, FL has to know, after he was unfortunately offline today. Not too bad for him, but after stage 10 and 13, his superstar Lorenz Looser won't be too happy that he missed the two stages, where he could win.

Instead, 6 escapists from 4 teams (including Luques!) went on the road and many others wanted to be in escape. But Gipfelstuermer controlled the race from the beginning, the boring flat 157km from San Salvo to Monselice until the Passo Roverello and Calaone hill. After Passo Roverello, poke controlled with Iulian Cristea. After Calaone hill, the race was very open. Big Donkey and Moja in front with their climbers and yesterday's winner Armas (76-80!). Volodko and McCloud right behind, then another group, and then the poke/gip combined train.

After Davies (66-87) closing the gap for maglia rosa-wearing Pincemail and bringing all 4 groups together, he immediately attacked! Not only once! Twice! First attack with too many followers, second attack successful but caught right afterwards on the next km. Team-Mojabahs finally realized the dangerous situation for GC and helped to create a (hill-)sprint.

In the sprint, Gip train with Quathammer - Thornquist - JJ. Kageyama and Pincemail following. JJ too strong for all others! Secures his second stage win this Giro! Team manager Gip is very happy: "You know, when Giro design came out, we thought, stage 6 and 12 should be for JJ. We lose both stages, but then we recover fast. Instead, JJ wins stage 9 and 13! The team is so happy!"

JJ receives the maglia ciclamino for this big effort! But he is just on par with Tuttobene (both 196 points) and followed by Spohr (188 points). With flat stage 19 (251km completely flat), Tuttobene and Spohr surely the favorites. But it will probably remain open until that stage at least.

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
6 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
2 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
7 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)

Stage wins by teams:
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
1 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
1 - Big Donkey
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Robyklebt
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 23, 2020 6:51 pm

The plotting Donkey back in the thread.

Second week, not finished, tomorrow the most important stage of the whole second week, but since it doesn't fit the rest of the week somehow, it's more of a third week stage in this very back heavy Giro, so short recap now.

The Donkey had great plans for stage 10, ride for Armas. Brrr, didn't work at all. The bug didn't help, sure, but wouldn't have worked otherwise either most likely. Get rid of the other classics at 6 11, then keep going, attack, win the ideal plan. Which didn't work. First there was no 6 :D The bug ate that... Then at 11 Seth McCloud and I think Prilasnig stayed with Armas. McCloud later attacked and won, good job. And the Jefferson group caught the Armas group.. bah. Okay, this wouldn't have happened with the 6, that was perfect there to eliminate exactly guys like Jefferson and maybe some other 71 guys, have the rest fight and lose more at 11. But well, the sieb at 11 then was too strong anyway, sort of was thinking about trying blue, hoping to stay with Armas and just drop the rest, but since the 11 came directly, it was red. Probably blue doesn't work either.. but ok, tried, failed, great win by McCloud.

Next day an easy sprint, that was difficult for some sprinters. A first time dropped, Feiting did it, the big sprinter teams didn't want to ride. Then in the finish Neumann left a mark, siebed them again, this time of course Falkenbier and FL had to ride, second stage win for Tuttobene, ciclamino Weber out. 3 man fight. "Bad" attack by Aix before... no not bad, just a bit possibly contra-productive. It wasn't in the end, was Neumann that siebed, but if the second best sprinter, even if without train, doesn't generally help much... that's still ok, they work together well enough after all. But if then he attacks too on a flat stage it might enrage/frustrate some of the other sprinters... Especially if it's for 1 point in the mountain classification only. Not in the ciclamino fight, no train, ok, don't work too much actively for the sprint, no problem. But then attack? If I had a sprinter team that would certainly make me want to ride when that sprinter is dropped. Especially since with 91 Marshall still can get one, right wheel, go in the right moment, the win is still reachable. So far wasn't the right wheel if I remember correctly. Anyway, the other sprinters didn't retaliate, so wasn't that, just Neumann wanting to show the world that he was there. He is.

Stage 11, perfect for Plan C, had expected Pincemail to go for it there, not in the first week as he did. And Donkey was ready to fully support him with Armas (although not in the new situation). Then... hm, this might be good for Bogarin, so went for that. Turned out to be too difficult for him after all, but was worth a try. This kind of disarmed this stage though. Just Gipfel going for sprint... not enough, never enough, it can become a wild and important stage for GC... and the Donkey during the day regretted more than once that he was riding for Bogarin, there were different very inviting places to try something... but ok, let's Bogarin. In the end too hard, group ahead, Becomes a smaller group after an attack, Armas there, he attacks, only Seth on him, Volodko and Pincemail attacked the same km, so Armas-McCloud, Armas won. Not planned at all like this on this day, but we take it. Risky stuff by Moja on that day, instead of covering the expected GC time gaining attack by Pincemail, he had Martin following. OK, Pincemail is still in reachable position, with the multi-mountain stages coming, possible to drop him early at some point too, but still, let him get more time that easily when it's so avoidable, dangerous... in the end saved by his own tempo one group further back, the Bogarin/Jefferson group.

Stage 12Another one with a hill before the end, here didn't expect anything really, take it easy, play around a bit in the end, that's what we did, Armas, joined by Volodko and McCloud stayed in front a bit, but this was always going to be too far from the end. Maybe ride with Belhassen and then with more riders keep the Jefferson group away... but well, this wasn't a stage for any of my riders really, so Jefferson with Kageyama back, Jefferson wins.

Result for ciclamino
Jefferson-Tuttobene 196
Spohr 188

So the most exciting thing going on right now. We have one full sprint left, Spohr with the train. Tuttobene with the sprint value.
And one possible Jefferson stage too, Tuesday, but 11-9-6 to be done 3 times, with 3 more mountains before... hard. And 11-9-6 actually looks pretty good for Armas I just realized! And the whole stage possibly for GC action, So... .if Donkey controls for Armas, there might be points for Jefferson, or even the sprint for the win again. If Pokemon goes for Kageyama, the same, together they get minimum points, if it works perfectly more. But if both Donkey and POkemon don't go for that, save energy for the mountain the next day, GC tries, then it will be very hard, next to impossible for Jefferson to score high points there. I expect he'll try anyway, what else should he do, but he'll need one ally I think.
So.. intermediates the thing.
Somehow there's none tomorrow?
Tuesday not ideal, but if he doesn't want to try for the stage, Jefferson could try for those 2. But it's still 111/145 km, hard
Wednesday an early one for Tuttobene/Spohr I expect, can't imagine Tuttobene not going for that one.
Km 93+145 on the Stelvio day, again, not impossible for Jefferson but.... he might consider an escape some day.
Doubt they will try much on the sprint stage
On the stage to Sestriere again an early one for Tuttobene, km 9

Seeing that... Tuttobene is the favorite. 8 points advantage to Spohr, 3 more sprint. And more possibilities to score more easily than Jefferson. I expect Jefferson to try till the end.. .but will be difficult. Stage 16 decisive for his chances, but might just be too hard.

Mountain, Barreau seems to want it. Most likely he'll have it. He'll probably try to combine it with a stage win somewhere I guess... but anyway, normally this should be for Barreau. Will somebody try to get a free ride? Barreau points then go on for stage/GC?

Today the TT

Pincemail won 1'56" to Neumann, 16 TT points over 33 km, flat that would be around 2'30", but with the climbs and downhills, I guess finally is ok.
Antinori lost 3'37" to Pincemail. And Antinori not too happy with his energy management, should have gone faster... but well, 25 points difference, flat that's 4'+, so 3'37" sounds ok. More important to Neumann though ,since Pincemail is Neumann's job, that's the whole point of plan C, 1'41", 9 points difference, so... the Donkey is ok with it, in a flat one he could expect to lose 1'30" basically, with better energy management probably here a bit less? But bad energy management and still only 11" more than "expected".. .finally I'm ok with that. In GC the Donkey now 2'15" behind Neumann, 1'12" behind Bernal, 45" behind Agarok, 40" behind Kufando. So.. all ok at this point. Will lose another 45" or so to Neumann in the last TT, so 3' to gain. Now the question is where :D
Certainly won't be easy, I don't know this Moja well enough to know if he has weaknesses and what they might be, haven't really seen much in the first 10 days... we'll have to try and see.

"White seems safe for Fumari, if he isn't too active! IMO he was the clear favorite even if Sow was online and going faster today, but he was off, winning 21", so... looks rather easy for Fumari. Again, experience might be the biggest weakness Sangiu has, so if he doesn't try too many other things, or make tempo too early, when the big guns still plan to wait for their classics, he should have it. Basically ride the final climbs and that's it.
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team fl
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by team fl » Mon May 25, 2020 8:43 am

Second week is over, I am eagerly awaiting the nice summaries by Gipfelstuermer, Feiting Siebing or Big Donkey. But until then, numbers, numbers, numbers!

General classement:

01. 00:00 Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari) (+/- 0 compared to week 1)
02. 03:05 Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs) (+5)
03. 04:47 Nairo Bernal (Sport) (+7)
04. 05:03 Gylfi Bjarnason (Falkenbier) (-)
05. 05:16 Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey) (+6)
06. 05:16 Sasha Agarok (Luques) (+3)
07. 05:30 Muchel Kafando (Sangiu ProTeam) (+5)
08. 06:18 Rudy Gobert (Aixteam) (-6)
09. 07:03 Javier Larios (Big Donkey) (+4)
10. 07:54 Pascal Heuer (Team-Mojabahs) (+4)
11. 07:59 Seth McCloud (PG Force) (n.r.*)
12. 08:39 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing) (-4)
13. 09:07 Habib Belhassen (Big Donkey) (-10)
14. 09:21 Djibril Sow (Hessen Cycling) (+1)
15. 09:30 Marco Fumari (Sangiu ProTeam) (n.r.)

*n.r. = not ranked in the top 15 last week

Points classement:

196 Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
196 Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
188 Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)

Mountain classement:

032 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
030 Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
027 Nairo Bernal (Sport)

Youth classement:

05:03 Gylfi Bjarnason (Falkenbier)
09:21 Djibril Sow (Hessen Cycling)
09:27 Marco Fumari (Sangiu ProTeam)

Team classement:

01. 00:00 Big Donkey
02. 07:23 Team-Mojabahs
03. 08:55 Sport
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Gipfelstuermer
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Mon May 25, 2020 9:52 am

I add to the statistics, but let Big Donkey himself comment on stage 15. Given my small chances to win anything there, I didn't pay enough attention to write a nice report about that stage.

Have a nice rest day! Not sure about your riders, but mine really need it :D

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
9 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
2 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
10 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)

Stage wins by teams:
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Pokemonogatari
2 - Big Donkey
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
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Robyklebt
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Tue May 26, 2020 5:40 am

Plan C is working!!!
But there is a reason it's plan C, and not A or B, it's simply not enough. But it did work on Sunday. Without the threat from Pincemail I most likely would have lost some time to Neumann, 15"-20" or so, like this I won 4" :D Moja is forced to concentrate on getting time back to Pincemail, which Sunday meant that Neumann to maximize the time gain rode up to Piancavallo, no attacks. And at the same time gives me more freedom, attack by Belhassen-Nägele between the second and third climb, which forced Moja to use Heuer early. So in a way plan C is actually working perfectly. Just... yeah, not enough, the 20" or so "gain" is just time I didn't lose.... will need to gain time somewhere at some point. Or more correctly, gain time everywhere on every stage...

Situation now

Pincemail
Neumann 3'05"
Antinori 5'16"

I ignore the rest for the moment, since I don't think anybody else will play a role for the Giro win.
Neumann still in command, 2'36" including bonifications won on Sunday. He will lose 1'15" or so in the TT, so 4'20" to gain. And since he most likely doesn't want a close TT, chance plays a role too, let's say 5'. That is easily possible IMO.
Today very important, that can go either way somehow. Pincemail might try to gain more time, not unconceivable that he is successful. But if the peloton reaches the last passage of the Monte di Ragogna together, then he might lose some seconds.
Madonna di Campiglio usually the time gain shouldn't be too big, shortish not too steep, last km flat, 30"?
But then the Stelvio stage, going early can win quite a lot, depending a bit on who goes, Prilasnig or Heuer? But 2' anyway there I guess, can be more.
Then the sprint stage, which should not play a role really.
Sestriere, looking at how far Antinori is... action can start on the Agnello, time can be huge.
So yes, I think Neumann still is in command, he can win those 5', but he has to ride for it a bit too, won't be automatic with the last climb thing, needs more, needs some earlier effort. Plan C, perfect, that should open up things a bit for Antinori.

Antinori, 5'16" back and can expect to lose a bit over 2' to Pincemail in the last TT... so 7'20" or so, again, not to have a heart attack inducing final TT he would need 8'. To be honest I think I could get that back with my team. If there was no Neumann. Well, even with Neumann, but the incentive is not really there in that case. But if Neumann crashes today, loses 5'.... Big Donkey is confident with Belhassen-Armas-Larios and the finisher Antinori he could get those 8'. But well, a Neumann crash seems unlikely, so I'll rely on Moja's team to get the time back, I'll concentrate on Neumann. In the end I don't care much if I'm second or third or off the podium, try to win. So it's the gap to Neumann I care about, which is 2'11", should lose 40-45" in the last TT, so have to gain a bit under 3', I count 3', easier... Where? Everywhere. How? Somehow. So yes, I'm still stuck in plan C, A and B are in development (or maybe I'm just bluffing and I have the great plans)

So the situation is: Neumann has to gain 5' to Pincemail. Antinori has to gain 3' to Neumann.

Sunday, a bit the expected and hoped for race, early attacks, Moja has to chase and he does, he did a good job. Didn't understand all the attacks or actions, like what did Feiting attack again from the second group? Get rid of Krankl who possibly made Moja ride? Possible, but Krankl was going to stay, after all Feiting going for blue was logic, I want to be there in case I want to attack with Larios/Antinori.... Later wild tempo by Pokemon at some point in the peloton, not sure what that was for either, but ok.
Then on the first or second climb sort of a Donkey own goal, sieb, but ends up 5-5 in front... Bogarin, Krankl dropped, wasn't too happy, but actually was not bad either, Prepelita back too, Becker riding, isolating Pincemail as much as possible.
Later my chance, after a countersieb on the second climb (so own goal that then wasn't one really was the first) attack Nägele-Belhassen, since Becker had been dropped Moja waited for Prepelita. Next km Armas attacks. Mysterious. That wasn't planned and I didn't click attack as far as I remember... either I did it inadvertently or it's the bug that sometimes seem to happen after TTs, weird attacks, not sure. Anyway, the attack actually was rather brilliant, should have kept going with Armas, but since I was so surprised by that unplanned attack stopped tempo and went back to the peloton. Nägele rides, third climb Heuer in the tempo in the back. And here I really should have gone with Antinori (and Larios too?) but didn't, Heuer in scared me a bit, plus sometimes the threat of an attack is more threatening than the attack itself. But should have tried, sure, even without Armas. On top minimal advantage, but with only Prilasnig there or coming back for Moja.... But ok, on the other hand it was almost 30 km, once Pincemail+Machis bring back Martin I would start losing time again, so maybe it was safer this way... but well, no risk no gain, so that's how it was, didn't take the risk, only gain was the stage and not losing time... And possibly at this time I still hoped that Neumann had been at 950 or so at the start, turned out 975, which is what I had aimed for with Antinori too, completely miscalculated and was at way over 1000. Well 1000, but had I think actually 70 more to spend on the TT. Miscalculation 1, thought I had 52 reg, 54 it seems to be, miscalculation 2, was filling the chat with deep thoughts so much went from 95 to 100 way too late. And to 95 too late too actually. 70? 50? 60? Forgot...Anyway, hoped Neumann had less than 970, he seemed to start fast in the TT, but no, was 975... With 950 and the high tempo I hoped to be able to drop him in the last climb, if he made tempo. Or to catch him back and drop if he attacked and I had Larios blocking that km. Didn't happen, he rode, Antinori fought a bit on the steep ones, couldn't get rid of him at 7, neither at 4, not sure why I even tried actually.... but Antinori won the sprint. So in the end, not attacking on the second last climb ok. But really should have gone with Armas, then I can hope to have a decent advantage going into the last climb, and maybe hang on and win a few more seconds.

Anyway, 5 more GC stages coming, one TT where even I will understand that just going 100% from start to finish is the way to go, that leaves 4 stages where action is required, since my mental reg is around 42, I'll probably run out of steam by the Stelvio stage... but let's see, I have to try.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 27, 2020 4:07 am

Armas!

Stage again, finally that Armas thing worked. Last climb km a 6, makes it easy.

GC big day for Neumann. Team fit, had nothing to do, I was kind of hoping to have the energy advantage today, won't happen. But ok, I chased the first group. Wrong Pokes, wanted to have Swift there, plus a Moka and a Gipfel, didn't like that at all. Maybe should have let it go, hang on Pincemail with Belhassen and Larios as planned, but really wanted to have another guy there to help. (Larios or Belhassen or depending on how it goes tempo) So no Larios, but Krankl on Cristea and Larios tries the jump later... but with that Moka ahead... Donks no like, Donks rides. And after that it really didn't develop into a Pincemail attack anymore, Gipfel going blocked him too. And well, Mojas team is good, would have been a risk too, go, caught (that's why I wanted Swift/Krankl there, go further) the dropped, time loss. So keep defending for Pincemail, Armas mostly thanks to Falkenbier/FL got his second stage.
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Wed May 27, 2020 10:59 am

Stage 16 - Armas with 2nd stage win

The strongest classic rider in the Giro, Tulio Armas (Big Donkey, 76-80) has done it again on stage 16. 2nd stage win for him, 3rd stage win for Big Donkey. The hilly 228km stage from Udine to San Diele Del Friuli was a perfect fit for such a rider with such a strong team, especially as the peloton had to climb Monte di Ragogna three times (a 11-9-6 hill).

The only question was, who would control for him for 228km? And it couldn't have been better for Armas, that GC fight, ciclamino fight and azzurra fight were going on during this stage. First sieb came on the first hill. Normally, we wanted to sieb here to make the friendly F's (FL & Falken) work in Grupetto, but Team Sport did the sieb for the mountain jersey and others than FL & Falken worked in Grupetto, mainly Hessen Cycling if I remember correctly.

So needed a different plan to put pressure on FL & Falken! What is best to put pressure? Attack! I chased a small escape for a few km and then attacked with Boas & Edvin. On the next hill, attacked with Theo & JJ. Worked well, but unfortunately nobody followed, either. I really hoped for the GC contenders poke and/or Donkey to follow that attack after I prepared it for a few kilometers. But I guess they were just too surprised to see me attacking after I was riding in peloton nearly all Giro? Or was it calculated for them to better stay in peloton? If JJ is in escape, GC attack is difficult of course, because FL, Falken and Moja might all have a reason to ride in peloton... But still, Poke, Donkey and me putting pressure on FL, Falken and Moja could have been an interesting race, especially with 3 difficult mountain stages and one long flat stage still coming. That should make some managers nervous when they see their energy decline. Also, Donkey and Poke wouldn't have risked too much if they just follow and then decide after the IS if it's worth contuining or not. Last but not least, as Donkey pointed out himself, he is only collecting stages currently, but not winning time. (Impressive enough to win 3 Giro stages in such a strong and large peloton!)

Anyway, that was just a dream, I was riding alone vs. FL & Falken in the back, as expected. Three nice escapists (Feiting, Aix, XC) were caught by the gip train and got a free ride on the gip train for a while. They let JJ the IS points, FL & Falken only gave us 3min only, so I dropped back and let them go after the IS hoping that peloton stops chasing and we finally see another escape win! Worked only 50%. Falken stopped. FL continued. FL hoping for his classic combo Haugen & Looser. Made sense somehow, but in the end they didn't seem to have 100 form (or were not 100% protected during a fast stage?). Good form and 100% protection was surely necessary to catch Armas.

So FL really worked a lot in peloton, to defend his ciclamino chances and for stage. But he couldn't beat Armas (at least Looser got P2) and I am not sure if he is really bringing himself in best position for ciclamino like that. Yes, he has the train for a sprint on stage 19, but Tuttobene is 8 points ahead and after unlucky training for Spohr today 4 sprint-points ahead (92 vs. 88 now). Ciclamino may be the main target for FL, but would have liked to see FL ride more for his classics in other hilly stages or even in escapes instead of the small chance vs. Tuttobene. Just difficult for me to imagine, how Spohr can beat Tuttobene and gain 8 points vs. him. Even more needed if Tuttobene stays in front of Spohr in GC and/or collects some IS on the way.

Ok, probably I am not very objective here! And with this game's sprint system, nothing is impossible in a decisive sprint on stage 19. Indeed Tuttobene had some sub-optimal following decisions on other stages, too. Maybe without that, Spohr and JJ wouldn't even be in the race for ciclamino right now. Thinking about it, that could be the genius FL plan. But really shouldn't think so much about FL strategy! Should think about my own strategy! How to beat Spohr and Tuttobene on stage 19? Escape? Own train? Simply follow Tuttobene in sprint? Some other genius ideas?

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
10 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
2 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
11 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
2 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)

Stage wins by teams:
3 - Falkenbier
3 - Big Donkey
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Thu May 28, 2020 7:39 am

Try 1, didn't work. Lost time.
Could say a lost chance in a way. After the Belhassen/Armas Attack, reaction by Moja in the Peloton was weird. Attack with Becker? Very slow reaction. I should have gone with Antinori and maybe Larios too then and there. Actually had the attack in, green, change to blue... No out again. Didn't have the guts, but should have simply gone. Like this in the end Belhassen simply was way too fast. Had a minute to spare after Antinori went in the next climb Had to wait. Going with him at the top of Bondone too, would have had more advantage. Wasn't going to be the Giro winning attack, but possibly could have gained a little time. But well as I said, didn't have the guts. Let's see if there are any openings today or Saturday.
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by gaurain rx » Thu May 28, 2020 10:05 am

Stage 18

FIrst big moutain stage of the third week. Early group with 4 Aixteam, 2 Feitings, 2 XC, Fl, Sport,... Gobert going, a bit close in GC... Pokemon chasing hard in the peloton. On the first climb, Barreau tried to reach the front group to secure some mountain points. I actually thought I went too late but nobody accelerated in front but nobody did. Barreau reached the group just on the top of the climb. A little grupetto formed also in the back durng this climb. Lambot (Feiting) and Petit (Aix) collaborated in the downhill, we kind of had an agreement with AIx (Barreau points, Gobert stage (should have been the other way around, it could have worked definitely). Poke stopped chasing and Moja took over, group having a 8' gap at the foot of the second climb of the day.

There, RObertson (Aix) did tempo, Moja not chasing that hard on the climb, gap was still 7' and not really going down but then Belhassen/Armas (Big Donkey) attacked and the chase went harder. Still, the Donkey duo took a 3' gap on the peloton, the group still 5' ahead at the foot of the 3rd climb. Antinori (Donkey) attacked to take back some time in the general classification. but gap was only 1', as the climb was not really steep. Gobert/Barreau had still a 2'30 on the peloton at the foot of the last climb but Gobert was already really tired. Sport joined the chased with Moja in the peloton, as the finish was fitting the skills of his leader Bernal. On the climb, Neumann (Moja) caught Antinori really early, then attacked and siebed his last opponent, Agarok (Luques) at 7kms from the top of the climb. He won the stage and took back 1'25 on the race leader, Pincemail (Poke) which means he almost took back half of the gap he had at the start of the stage.

Gc fight definitely not over but it looks like it will be a Pincemail/Neumann contest.

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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Thu May 28, 2020 6:09 pm

Phenomenal stage 18! Neumann re-conquers rosa, Antinori wins, Pincemail impressive still!

What a phenomenal stage 18 of this year's Giro! The peloton raced over 209km from Pinzolo over the Campo Carlo Magno, Passo Castrin, the Stelvio (Cima Coppi!) up to the mountain finish at Laghi di Cancano. It was a fantastic race, super-fast and with a lot of action. The maglia rosa, ciclamino, azzurra, bianca, all were involved during the race, so where to start telling the story?

Let's start at the beginning! Campo Carlo Magno begins at km1. So first sieb at km1. Big Donkey in green Tempo with his climber Javior Larios. Grupetto forms and Gipfelstuermer takes over in peloton (was my plan anyway). Bastien Boulanger with an even harder sieb, so two more larger Grupetto form. For a while, Falkenbier rides in the grupetto 1 of 3. That was smart, putting pressure on my race, making an attack of JJ more difficult. But he realized, that race vs me is gonna cost lot of energy, so he stopped. Let's see tomorrow if that was brilliant and he is able to create a mass sprint. That action resulted in peloton being roughly 5' ahead of Grupetto.

Then my attack before Passo Castrin: Boas, Edvin & Adrian go. FL screams "team attack" but realizes in the same moment, it was a +4% and Adrian only followed McKenzie (Falkenbier) so all good! Poke again not following the attack, like on stage 16, but this time he attacks afterwards and joins my ride! Then Passo Castrin, Poke suddenly in tempo with Kageyama in peloton, for more than 1km, all think "what is he doing?". (Just to confuse Donkey, Moja and me?) But then the logical Pincemail attack! I follow with JJ and Theo. Volodko (Falkenbier) follows, too. Some others as well. Big escape on its way! Lutz Neumann not following the maglia rosa, that could have neutralized the race, but Moja was confident to chase successfully.

Long way downhilll from Passo Castrin and Moja's chase thanks to Julien Martin very strong. Pincemail even had to ride some km downhill himself to avoid an early catch. Then there was a +7%. Escape was only 27'' ahead, but Neumann didn't close the gap there, either. Moja still confident to chase successfully. Then the large escape slowly got away thanks to poke and me with many riders. JJ collected the IS on the way, but that was a complicated operation vs. the two Falkenbier riders in escape. McKenzie and Volodko always a danger to attack. So we went full speed and had to let JJ sprint as well.

The escape arrived at the bottom of the Stelvio with 3' advantage. Would that be enough for Pincemail to arrive at Cima Coppi before Neumann? No! Even though Markus Görger (XC-runners youth) and Dmitry Volodko (Falkenbier) joined him, the Neumann group catched Pincemail and dropped him. Javier Larios (Big Donkey) wins the Cima Coppi. Big Donkey riding here for a possible stage win. In the downhill Pincemail came back, with a style like Julian Alaphilippe in 2019 TDF, but just right before the climb to Laghi di Cancano, so it was clear Neumann would drop him immediately again. That's what he did uphill. In the end, Fabio Antinori won the sprint against Neumann, so 4th stage win for Team Big Donkey!

Grupetto survived by the way, despite a super fast stage. Respect to all teams who were riding for that. Well done.

maglia rosa: Neumann took it, now 2'17'' ahead of Pincemail. Surely would be more without the Poke/Gip escape, but seems impossible to beat him. Something crazy would have to happen on the next two stages.

maglia ciclamino: JJ now with 220 points, Tuttobene 196, Spohr 188. Best outcome that I could imagine three stages ago, so let's see what happens on tomorrow's entirely flat 251km from Morbegno to Asti. An escape win seems possible after three hard mountain stages and a lot of Grupetto riding. Can't imagine all sprinter teams 100% fit. But if he creates a mass sprint, Tuttobene probably favorite for stage and ciclamino, still. 50 points for the win and JJ is only the 11th best sprinter here. So not sure where he ends up. He got something between 3rd and 15th in previous sprints. Then Spohr is there as the underdog, too. If JJ is far behind and he somehow manages to win (not sure how vs. Tuttobene), he can still win ciclamino, too. All three would deserve it at this point, I think.

maglia azzurra: Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing) with a bad day, but nobody else really attacked the jersey. So it's safe for him now!

maglia bianca: Marco Fumari (Sangiu) finally strong enough to take it. Quite nice for him, who was hit by Covid-19, but still survived the Giro.

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
11 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
2 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
12 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
2 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
2 - Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)

Stage wins by teams:
4 - Big Donkey
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
1 - Team-Mojabahs
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Fri May 29, 2020 11:17 pm

Blud wins stage 19 for Luques - JJ secures maglia ciclamino, seems first ever rider to win 2x ciclamino!

Stage 19 from Morbegno to Asti asked a lot from the peloton. After 3 hard mountain stages in a row, riders had to complete loooong 251km from Morbegno to Asti. The entirely flat race led the peloton along beautiful Lago di Como but also through the ugly suburbs of Milano.

As such, only a small escape was motivated to go. 3 Hessen Cycling riders and 2 XC-runners youth riders started. But they were never allowed much more than 6 minutes advantage as many sprinter teams felt ready to ride and to win in a mass sprint. Aixteam started the chase, pokemonogatari joined and later the friendly F connection (Team FL and Falkenbier) joined. Even Team Hainault joined after he had been offline for some stages.

While we hoped for the escape (Both underdog teams were active during the Giro and would deserve something), it never had a chance. But roughly 20km before the finish, right before escape was about to be caught, Boas Bergsteinsson (Gipfelstuermer) set a successful attack with many followers, including the 60-88 monster VanLooy (Feiting Siebing) and the 77 sprinter Kageyama (Pokemonogatari), although the latter was probably a mistake as poke made it difficult for a possible train in a mass sprint. Again Falkenbier didn't let the escape go far. 3 seconds were eliminated within few km.

Then the mass sprint! 4 relevant trains! FL Train for Spohr with Tuttobene and Blud following. Poke train for Weber with Marshall following. Hainault train for Stoneman with DeRoy and Bogarin following. And my Gip train for JJ with only Tatar following. (Gipfelstuermer later in the interview: "We were lucky, nobody trusted us to have a fit train after the action in the last stages. Today's good weather conditions helped to recharge during the race.")

Poke train was the fastest initially as Kageyama started directly but the Gip train overtook him at 350m because Boulanger launched early for JJ. At 250m Kageyama tried to switch to Gip train but failed as JJ launched the sprint in the right moment. So JJ was far ahead early but FL train and Hainault train were coming from behind. At 150m Tuttobene and Stoneman both launch in the right moment as Spohr switches to Stoneman. Both trains would clearly overtake JJ. Stoneman slightly slower than Tuttobene, so Spohr tries from 100m. Still slower than Tuttobene. This would mean his third stage and ciclamino for him. But at 50m Blud launches from Tuttobenes wheel and wins! That makes JJ stay in maglia ciclamino as he finishes 6th and remains 6 points ahead of Tuttobene.

Fantastic to see Luques win a stage. Now 10 of 16 teams with stage wins during this Giro. Quite a nice balanced result so far. Hoping for an XC, Hessen, Hainault or Sangiu surprise escape win tomorrow. All would deserve it in this nice afternoon Giro.

For ciclamino, Tuttobene could still theoretically overtake JJ, but an IS in the mountains, a mountain finish and a time trial surely don't fit Tuttobene's skills. So there is only one IS left to win that would take Tuttobene and JJ to equal points, but JJ is 4 hours ahead in GC. Falkenbier gw'ed JJ after the race so no crazy attacks from him expected. He is one of the hard-to-beat, but friendly and fair opponents in this game. Perhaps we can use the last stage to go into escape together!

So we observe history in the making. JJ is becoming the first in the history of C4F to win 2x maglia ciclamino. It is a dream coming true for the 36-year-old as he explained with tears of joy in his eyes: "2 months ago, not far from here in San Remo, I lost MSR by 1 pixel to Ticio. Coming back to Italy for the Giro and securing ciclamino for the second time - right here in the area today, with my friend Ticio in the peloton as well - I could not imagine a better moment for that."

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
11 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
3 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
12 - Pokemonogatari
3 - Falkenbier
3 - Team-Mojabahs

Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
2 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
2 - Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)
1 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Sergey Blud (Luques)

Stage wins by teams:
4 - Big Donkey
3 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
1 - Team-Mojabahs
1 - Luques
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Sat May 30, 2020 6:58 am

In other news, Armand Brotcorne is surely the most talked about rider who didn't do anything noteworthy during this Giro. Being talked about is good, but...

Yesterdays fairness votes:

Feiting: Brotcone collecting flowers as everyday
Gipfel: No Brotcome, no Bogarin, you can't win every stage, would be boring

Brotcone, Brotcome.... despite being known it seems people still have trouble getting his name right. Brotcorne!

Falkenbier, a guy I haven't given enough credit so far, a great manager, a great swiss, one of 2 managers that will end the Giro with 4 stage wins (unless my great plan (NsfNanae (No sprint for Neumann and no attack either) works today)wrote:
Where was Brotcorne???
Great manager, but he doesn't seem to have the overview (? den Ueberblick haben...) it seems, Brotcorne was first collecting flowers as Feiting saw, and then happily finishing in the peloton. But even though Falkenbier missed that and seems to have been worried about Armand (he's fine) at least he got the name right.

Armand now might have to attack today, to show himself, so that everybody not only knows him and talks about him, but also gets his name right! Or he just wins the TT tomorrow... hm, hard choice, a win is a win, but after all Rümbeli won his World Championship title with me, he's a nice guy, wouldn't want to upset him. Let him the win seems the right thing to do. I'll think about it.
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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Laurens88 » Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 pm

It was a really cool tour to watch, even today it was an interesting stage. Didn't expect that Moja would still get into trouble, but in the end he did fine.

Congrats to him and to JJ who was truly amazing this tour!

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Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Sun May 31, 2020 2:29 am

Grr, Rapid not mentioning Armand!

Today plan A! And I thought it could work. Not likely, but IMO there was a chance. Of course depends on the reaction in the back, and yes, often the threat of an attack is harder to deal with than once the attack is gone, then it's all much more predictable, but attacks like this have traps for the chaser. So thought, if Moja falls into one, it can work. 2'50" to gain back... a lot, but actually pretty happy with that position, only lost 30" in the mountains before this stage. Ok, some seconds on Etna, let's make it 40". Which is not bad I thought. Plan C worked, Moja was forced to take me with him basically, to maximize time vs Pincemail. Not that I did all that much for Plan C finally, but well, collaborating with Belhassen gave some seconds I guess.

Anyway, today, traps for Moja. First one right after the attack, what does he do. Ideally for me he chases with Heuer. Perfect. Confident he won't get me (but didn't expect Heuer on 100 form today either, Larios too), if he does that, he loses energy with Heuer already, for nothing (since he won't get me, in my fantasies) If Heuer goes in, I go blue, then later red (red directly kills Barreau, who I was sure would be there...) So Martin, then not good at all, probably need to go blue the whole way. But no, he continued with Prepelita, perfect for me too. Almost 5' on top going green, one km red on the +12 to maximize time (by then probably fighting for the others no problem, but probably should have gone green there and red on a flatter one, the flatter, the bigger the difference between red and green)... and then the stage was almost assured. I would have gone with Martin, maybe short sieb green with Heuer to get rid of all the freeloaders, then Martin. But worked well enough the way Moja did it, so maybe that was even better after all, keep helpers.
Second trap was reg, when does Neumann go in, I hoped for the Montgenevre, then he can have regtrouble. And don't think he gets us either. But no, he was patient and waited until the 8 on Sestriere.
Of course he let some seconds here and there, in the middle of the downhill from the Agnello Martin in, why not at the beginning of the climb? Or if Martin there, do the first part of the Izoard with Prilasnig, who wasn't even used today. Waiting long with Heuer too then, only at the 10 of the Izoard, same with Neumann, he could have gone in at the 5 of Sestriere... Hm, looking at it like this he maybe could have challenged even for the stage?
But of course we could have done it better too in front. Green Larios in the Agnello, maybe blue is better, but I thought save as much energy as possible. Then the downhill green at first, here didn't think at all, that was just stupid. Then going in green for the Izoard with the leaders would have been a possibility, keep Larios, but be faster, then downhill again Larios. But well, in the end Moja had it under control very well, nothing to say. Don't think the try was bad, waiting till the Izoard pointless. Having Krankl in front was sort of plan A2 (originally had it planned like we did, so we did A1), but since those flat km before the Izoard looked annoying and bad for Larios.... worth a try, unlikely it works, but try. Didn't expect Sport and Poke to do the chasing, I mean if I want second place, sorry, but I could have gotten that without much trouble today by just staying in the peloton, waiting, tempo, getting second place in the stage... But well, Moja showed he didn't want anybody ahead anyway.

Last week the masterplan generally didn't work, Plan C on day 1 didn't happen, I blocked the first attempt, then when it looked free to go it was blocked ahead by Gipfel, who made F&F ride. If Pincemail-Belhassen-Larios (and for him I wanted Krankl or Nägele there, that's why chase the first one)...
Next day was the stage I had pencilled in as the big energy consuming stage. Stelvio stage a day later scarier, but there simply attack on the Stelvio and go, if Moja follows, then stop. So use the helpers the day before, hopefully some deadish Mojas around. Depending on how fit they are, early siebs, but since they were fit, just the short version, end part.
I hoped to lose less in the flat before the last climb. but in fact I just should have gone with Antinori-Larios in after Moja didn't react at all to Belhassen-Armas.
Stelvio then the big, but IMO counter productive Pincemail attempt, I think staying back he loses rather less, since he then doesn't have to ride all by himself, STelvio Machis, downhill Pincemail, flattish Machis, final climb Pincemail. So was clear Heuer would ride in the Stelvio at some point, so the Stelvio attack became pointless. I changed to ass-licking for a stage chance. Ride with Moja in the Stelvio, even went in before he did. Great thinking was: If the positions were inverted, I'm the 90 chasing, the 88 helps me, I won't attack in the final climb, take him along, then go for the sprint. SEems to have worked (or maybe Neumann just doesn't know how to attack? Did he ever attack? Ah, Etna I think) then immensely lucky that he sprinted at the wrong place :D If he doesn't and sprints at the finish... he's still the favorite, 70-30, but possibly my help in the Stelvio still works by not losing more time.

So didn't play out as I had planned there, but actually in the end with 2'50" before the big stage today was ok for me, if somehow one of my masterplans (today was more or less clear from the start, the rest of the masterplan was made after the TT or so, until then I kept staring at that 90 and wondering how to beat it) worked, I'm closer, and if I'm too close, miscalculation by Moja becomes more unlikely. And of course having Bernal in front of me was genius. (or pure luck) And Agarok 8 seconds back the same. Collaboration works, if I'm 1' ahead of them, it can't. So basically today was in an almost perfect situation to try, tried, didn't work. Nothing to do, in the end think rode this Giro well enough when it comes to GC. Greatest tactical move my attack on Etna... to bad I then followed Heuer with Larios, argh... but ok, checked now, was 6" 12" including bonifications... Stages of course were mostly luck....I was afraid to end up with 0 at some point, finally 4, so more than satisfied with that.

Neumann strong winner, always in command, maybe some weaknesses in preventing attacks, often not in tempo or with weak riders when something looked likely to go.
And was interesting, good thing he was here, same group without him would have risked being more boring (yes, I'm full of myself, but think I wouldn't have let Pincemail gain that much time and my 87-88 was more superior to the next climber than his 87-90 to mine...
All very controlled, which is nice in one way, I like it when sprinters go for their sprints etc. But ok, a few more escapes could have been ok. One certainly prevented in part by me riding for Bogarin (Armas then won, hihi), then Jefferson of course was a big escape killer too (once with Bogarin!)

Star of the Giro: Neumann
Most hated rider: Volodko
Most derided rider: Brotcorne
Most supported rider: Banis
Most dictatorial rider: Gobert
Most offensive rider: Arpagaus, he kept insulting everybody in the peloton.
Most offensive rider II; Gobert, can't get enough of attacking
Most nervous rider: Fumari
Most selfless team: Feiting
Nicest win: McCloud

Ok, horse races start, enough
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Team SWE: "I'm a multi and I don't care about fairplay,"

Robyklebt
Posts: 8207
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:11 am

Finally got second in GC, 15" ahead of Bernal, so gained 37" on him in the final TT. I wasn't there, so the question... did Bernal not go 100%? Because while I thought there was a chance to beat Bernal, 90 energy more for me, maybe more, but doubt it was much more, we rode the same amount, Larios never could help either, probably Bernal was fighting only at 1 km... winning 37" seems a lot. But ok, take it, more money.

Otherwise as I said, interesting Giro, good Neumann, he was under attack but never seemed in big trouble, good buggy Jefferson, Barreau 2 stages and blue, Falkenbier and Donkey with 4 stages, but lots of teams with a stage.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Team SWE: "I'm a multi and I don't care about fairplay,"

Gipfelstuermer
Posts: 491
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:43 am
Location: Sauerland
Contact:

Re: Afternoon Giro - The one and only

Post by Gipfelstuermer » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:35 am

... and all the final statistics!

Trofeo fast team: Big Donkey
Maglia bianca: Marco Fumari (Sangiu ProTeam)
Maglia ciclamino: Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
Maglia azzurra: Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
01. 00:00:00 Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
02. 00:02:15 Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)
03. 00:02:30 Nairo Bernal (Sport)

Days in maglia rosa by riders:
11 - Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
5 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
3 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)

Days in maglia rosa by teams:
12 - Pokemonogatari
5 - Team-Mojabahs
3 - Falkenbier


Stage wins by riders:
2 - Theophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
2 - Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
2 - Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
2 - Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
2 - Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
2 - Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)
2 - Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
1 - Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
1 - Seth McCloud (PG Force)
1 - Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
1 - Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
1 - Sergey Blud (Luques)
1 - Muchel Kafando (Sangiu ProTeam)

Stage wins by teams:
4 - Big Donkey
4 - Falkenbier
2 - Feiting Siebing
2 - Team FL
2 - Gipfelstuermer
2 - Pokemonogatari
1 - Aixteam
1 - PG Force
1 - Team-Mojabahs
1 - Luques
1 - Sangiu ProTeam

Trofeo fast team: Big Donkey
Maglia bianca: Marco Fumari (Sangiu ProTeam)
Maglia ciclamino: Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
Maglia azzurra: Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
01. 00:00:00 Lutz Neumann (Team-Mojabahs)
02. 00:02:15 Fabio Antinori (Big Donkey)
03. 00:02:30 Nairo Bernal (Sport)
04. 00:03:47 Muchel Kafando (Sangiu ProTeam)
05. 00:04:31 Mathieu Pincemail (Pokemonogatari)
06. 00:04:32 Sasha Agarok (Luques)
07. 00:10:21 Javier Larios (Big Donkey)
08. 00:11:02 Pascal Heuer (Team-Mojabahs)
09. 00:12:03 Marco Fumari (Sangiu ProTeam)
10. 00:12:14 Dmitry Volodko (Falkenbier)
11. 00:20:01 Markus Görger (XC-runners youth)
12. 00:20:54 Djibril Sow (Hessen Cycling)
13. 00:21:36 Lorenz Looser (Team FL)
14. 00:22:20 Van Baas (PG Force)
15. 00:23:29 Seth McCloud (PG Force)
16. 00:23:30 Théophane Barreau (Feiting Siebing)
17. 00:27:26 Halvor Haugen (Team FL)
18. 00:27:45 Theo Thornquist (Gipfelstuermer)
19. 00:29:37 Alberto Marinheiro (Sport)
20. 00:47:37 Jacob Jefferson (Gipfelstuermer)
21. 00:50:11 Tulio Armas (Big Donkey)
22. 00:51:11 Habib Belhassen (Big Donkey)
23. 00:51:39 Gylfi Bjarnason (Falkenbier)
24. 00:55:33 Sergey Boyko (Luques)
25. 00:56:09 Gilbert Prilasnig (Team-Mojabahs)
26. 01:01:42 Ludo Dierckxsens (Sport)
27. 01:02:42 Jonathan Bouckhaert (Feiting Siebing)
28. 01:06:37 Darwin Machis (Pokemonogatari)
29. 01:07:05 Pablo Gaviria (PG Force)
30. 01:07:11 Quirin Quathammer (Gipfelstuermer)
31. 01:08:14 Kenan Sari (XC-runners youth)
32. 01:09:57 Rudy Gobert (Aixteam)
33. 01:10:20 Hironobu Kageyama (Pokemonogatari)
34. 01:12:45 Stefan Weber (Sangiu ProTeam)
35. 01:25:48 Oka Nikolov (Hessen Cycling)
36. 01:28:54 Oussama Lonneux (XC-runners youth)
37. 01:31:10 Marc Stendera (Hessen Cycling)
38. 01:38:00 Klim Zhukov (Luques)
39. 01:43:48 Hadleigh Davies (Pokemonogatari)
40. 01:50:49 Emmanuel Dubray (Sport)
41. 01:56:02 Jaden McKenzie (Falkenbier)
42. 01:57:03 Julien Martin (Team-Mojabahs)
43. 01:57:41 Bjorn Sklorson (Sangiu ProTeam)
44. 02:05:48 Marco Leal (PG Force)
45. 02:11:01 Iulian Cristea (Pokemonogatari)
46. 02:18:45 Marten VanLooy (Feiting Siebing)
47. 02:44:35 Andrei Prepelita (Team-Mojabahs)
48. 02:46:33 Julien Liboton (Feiting Siebing)
49. 02:50:08 Sean Murphy (Team FL)
50. 03:05:02 Boas Bergsteinsson (Gipfelstuermer)
51. 03:13:11 Oscar Robertson (Aixteam)
52. 03:19:22 Adrian Arvidsson (Gipfelstuermer)
53. 03:21:44 Ticio Bogarin (Big Donkey)
54. 03:22:17 Andreas Nägele (Big Donkey)
55. 03:34:49 Hieronymus Hilti (Team FL)
56. 03:34:51 Timmy Chandler (Hessen Cycling)
57. 03:38:06 Felix Krankl (Big Donkey)
58. 03:49:47 Anton Becker (Team-Mojabahs)
59. 03:53:28 Edvin Einarsson (Gipfelstuermer)
60. 03:55:27 Diederik Bakker (XC-runners youth)
61. 03:56:27 Mattia Frullo (Sangiu ProTeam)
62. 04:05:12 Shay Hourihane (Falkenbier)
63. 04:07:43 Valentim Loureiro (PG Force)
64. 04:16:49 Bastien Boulanger (Gipfelstuermer)
65. 04:28:16 Niklas Petersen (PG Force)
66. 04:32:33 HyunMin Yoo (Falkenbier)
67. 04:37:18 Fabian Schmidt (Team-Mojabahs)
68. 04:37:58 Felix Wiedwald (Hessen Cycling)
69. 04:39:51 Georges Prieur (Feiting Siebing)
70. 04:40:47 Chris Cooper (Gipfelstuermer)
71. 04:46:02 Andrejs Banis (XC-runners youth)
72. 04:48:40 Bernardo Dias (PG Force)
73. 04:56:10 Magnus TuvMyhre (XC-runners youth)
74. 04:58:33 Manuel Ribeiro (PG Force)
75. 04:59:20 Raymond Michel (Aixteam)
76. 05:01:00 Achile Gourdin (Feiting Siebing)
77. 05:04:00 Giorgio Tuttobene (Falkenbier)
78. 05:04:37 Ladislav Tatar (Falkenbier)
79. 05:06:30 Eduardo Spohr (Team FL)
80. 05:07:03 Somy Zukardi (Sport)
81. 05:08:21 Jose Lluis (Team FL)
82. 05:09:34 Fabio Constantino (Sport)
83. 05:17:30 Vladislav Druzhko (Luques)
84. 05:19:09 Artur Matos (PG Force)
85. 05:20:15 Hakon Stavik (XC-runners youth)
86. 05:20:26 Stella Trip (Team Hainault)
87. 05:21:29 Armand Brotcorne (Big Donkey)
88. 05:24:33 Nicola Nicoli (Team FL)
89. 05:24:51 Cyril Rümbeli (Falkenbier)
90. 05:27:54 Gaston Lambot (Feiting Siebing)
91. 05:29:56 Hannes Weber (Pokemonogatari)
92. 05:31:48 Bruce Manatawai (Falkenbier)
93. 05:33:27 Jeroen DeRoy (Feiting Siebing)
94. 05:33:42 Johnny deGuzman (Hessen Cycling)
95. 05:39:18 Sergey Blud (Luques)
96. 05:39:20 Phillip Stoneman (Team Hainault)
97. 05:39:46 Tyrone Marshall (Aixteam)
98. 05:41:14 Sergey Nechiporenko (Luques)
99. 05:42:05 Nico Hinz (Team-Mojabahs)
100. 05:43:34 Boris Domogatsky (Luques)
101. 05:48:35 Bodo Rost (Team-Mojabahs)
102. 05:48:46 Dejan Jovelcic (Hessen Cycling)
103. 05:49:17 Basile Topin (Team Hainault)
104. 05:49:55 Paul Nicholls (Team Hainault)
105. 05:50:20 Steven Heidfeld (Team Hainault)
106. 05:51:34 Arthur Arpagaus (Team FL)
107. 05:54:00 Carlo Montanari (Sangiu ProTeam)
108. 05:54:20 Arturo Berisha (Team Hainault)
109. 05:55:45 Darragh McElhinney (XC-runners youth)
110. 05:59:32 Matti Myyry (Gipfelstuermer)
111. 06:01:12 Adi Hütter (Hessen Cycling)
112. 06:01:18 Mauro Pozzato (Sport)
113. 06:04:22 Samir Gupta (Team Hainault)
114. 06:04:35 Bob Pettit (Aixteam)
115. 06:05:02 Ricardo Milos (Pokemonogatari)
116. 06:05:16 Nicolas LeGoff (Team FL)
117. 06:09:00 Esteban Eres (Team Hainault)
118. 06:11:27 Oleg Karnaukh (Luques)
119. 06:11:28 Bastian Rode (Hessen Cycling)
120. 06:12:47 Joshua Sood (Team Hainault)
121. 06:16:04 Francisco Gaviria (Sport)
122. 06:17:10 Ionel Rusu (Sport)
123. 06:18:36 Joshua Beggins (Sangiu ProTeam)
124. 06:18:51 Nikoleta Kyriakopoulou (Sangiu ProTeam)
125. 06:23:05 Oisin Swift (Big Donkey)
126. 06:24:31 Vadim Tsatsulin (Luques)
127. 06:28:07 Antonio Vittori (Sangiu ProTeam)
128. 06:30:02 Sky Walker (Pokemonogatari)
129. 06:44:27 Jonatan AndersenVedvik (XC-runners youth)
130. 06:50:01 Linval Dixon (Aixteam)
131. 06:50:05 JeanPierre Polnareff (Pokemonogatari)
132. 07:04:55 Kristof Rousseau (Feiting Siebing)
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