Spring Classics 2019

Discuss about the RSF Races

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Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:33 am

PR, next monument
Haqqi 72,6
Kolbeinsson 77,7
Matsubara 79,4
Matsuishi 80,9
Matsushita 78,0
Matsuzaka 71,9
Quttiboyev 74,5
Valdelomar 79,6
Wiedmer 75,9

Good support team I think, just the leader is missing.
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team fl
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by team fl » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:54 am

Kopinski seems to be the second Peterlin. Always with good results, but no important wins. 2nd at Omloop, 3rd at RVV and not 2nd at PR. The positive thing about it is that the team seems to do its work very well while Karl is unlucky in the sprint so far (Maybe lack of experience? He is only 24 yo yet). Riders like Coolman who Always gets him back in position, or the 37 yo Afifi, Rossard and Spirito who helped him at RVV getting back in front and the tempo riders in the peloton around Spaeth, Funk and Zwerver.

Anyway, the opportunities for Team FL seem to be over after PR, as now the races are left that recquire other skills. But then again, Kaiser and Satour, Rossard and Luca are ready for action. And if that does not work, Kopinski will be ready in 2020 again, most likely :).
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:20 pm

Afternoon Paris Roubaix:
Interesting but boring. Predictable but unexpected moves.
Wasn't a bad race, the great Tukh vs Chartreuse match. no 1+5 in pavé vs no 5. Only Falkenbier with no 2 really missing, To make it THE race of the day. Like this, 2 very impressive teams, 4 Tukhs with 80+ pavé, 3 Chartreuse. There's only 48 riders with at least 1 point in the game now (1 Chartreuse retired though) would be 49 with him, maybe others did too.

But then the big drop, next were 3 Donkeys.... only 1 at more than 80 pavé, 2 just below. So in a way it was all very predictable... escape goes, the question how big, the 2 probably find an agreement to ride, then the Donkey tries some things, without success, in the end Tukh or Chartreuse wins. That's how it went. Escape really too small to be taken seriously, only 4 riders, the chase started rather early anyway, I thought they could have waited till the first pavé... or almost. But ok, Tukh decided to start early and go slow... I would have thought maximizing helping until the first pavé and idea, but didn't matter in the least. Then so it went, the Donkey as expected tried some siebs, but never got the one I wanted... .Chartreuse with a farmer right before my first planned attempt didn't help... Then ok, the predictable Donkey attack, chased, no chance, as I was pretty sure it would be... Good control in the back, and then surprisingly early attack by Pankratov and Brodar, followed by Alaphilippe. Km 231. In the back then Alaphilippe's teamates chased, for Boeuf and to put pressure on Tukh I guess. On the pavé some Valdelomar, for pressure again.... Carrefour de l'arbre nothing really happens, except the Donkeys dropped in front (the 2 that escaped and were caught by Pankratov, who was riding) Over, in the back still Roubaix for Boeuf, last pavé, attack by Matsuishi and Valdelomar, Matsuishi comes very close to Pankratov. In the back Boeuf tried to make tempo, but decided in the last second, too late. If he had been on time the race would have suddenly become VERY open. Then Boeuf is very close to Brodar and Alaphilippe. But with Boeuf a bunch of other similarly sprint strong guys, Kalenchuk, Tukh of course. But also Schuster, Lünen, but his leader was Schuhmann he said.. weird, he too should have gone in at that pavé... Anyway, then the result would have depended fully on Chartreuse, he still agrees to go in with Alaphilippe in front, same as now. He gambles and goes for Boeuf, then a very open sprint. But nobody blocked that km.. Matsuishi close, then Brodar+Alaphilippe decided to ride, of course gained time immediately. 14" in the end, 4th Valdelomar at 36", At 48" Krüger with his trademark last km attack, an earlier one, like on the last pavé would have been way more sensible.... And Matsubara who was hanging there.... Pankratov back in the peloton, as part of the riding deal in front he dropped back. All the way to the first group seemd overdoing it a little, he would have deserved to sprint for 3rd with Matsuishi.... but ok, Tukh seems a strict manager, you win or you drop to the peloton.

So, Brodar with a nice win, of course the Donkey kept telling Tukh what Tukh did wrong.... hihi, but he did allright. A bit early the attack, there was the risk of having the peloton coming back unsiebed like that, but worked well. The Donkey 3rd, 4th, 6th... Good placement, money money money, but well, he simply didn't have the team to do what he wanted .(Win) Tried a bit, but again ,the difference between the 2 topteams and the rest was simply too big, unless the 2 fought each other too much and did big mistakes, nobody else was going to win here.
Next year, Quttiboyev!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Wed May 01, 2019 9:00 pm

Last monument in sprint, Liège-Bastogne-Liège

So frustrating I boycotted c4f for 2 days after that!!!! No, not really, the boycott was planned, actually the reason I rode in the morning, But frustrating? Yeah.
Team wasn't really clear, leader yes, Son. Matsuoka no 2, rest either escape or helper... In the end added Hiroshi Matsuyama, second climber, pretty nonsensical, but it's LBL, another guy who can load or sieb is always nice.

So the team was
1 Son(I think I gave him 1...)
2 Haqqi
3 Matsukaze
4 Matsuoka
5 Hir.Matsuyama
6 His.Matsuyama
7 Matsuzaka
8 Pilioko
9 Wiedmer

Son Leader, rest mostly loaders...
Race starts, I was hanging on a few guys, they didn't go.. ok. Wait. Escape goes, ok, wait.
probably misread the race a bit, I didn't see myself with such good chances...in the end in the main group I was well represented always, better than I thought... so should have started tempo earlier. First plan was 15', then missed it, so thought 20. missed that too I think, was 20'30"... and tempo. And nobody else. I would have expected others to do something too.
Joy Ride, Ouedrago, 60+ sprint, 74 mountain, since I expect 100 form for this kind of rider for LBL... no idea how I could get rid of him. But JoyRide didn't feel like riding... wanted me to sieb at km 120 it seems, cryptic message to that effect. And clear after I didn't sieb... If you want to sieb, do it yourself... and well, at km 120 I'd been in tempo for quite a while already, around 80 km I guess, probably bit less, 70 maybe? And if we wanted to have a chance to catch the front, we needed tempo... but no, he'll see after 120 and since there was no sieb, no tempo. Whatever... But ok, either he didn't have 100 form or he did a horrible job at protecting Ouedrago, since he managed to get dropped. Which with 100 form can't happen. Less help? Minimal....
Schappy: No clear no 1, but 4 strong riders, climber with 59 sprint, so if it's a group, with some chances, best classic, Behrens 55 sprint, normally harder, but with 2 other classics, chances to make the race hard with them, anticipate, can work, if not might be enough to force a sprint including the climber? For me chances were there, Schappy didn't see them and said he wouldn't ride.
Ovo: On before the start, 77 classic with 62 sprint. Then off, on occasionally for 1 km, finally on for the end. He probably didn't have helping in, his leader than was dropped, even with 85 form that's impossible with proper help, since there was a 73 guy in front. Or maybe he had helping in, but then his helpers weren't there when I started some happy siebing... Anyway, his "presence" probably helped convince others not to ride as well, he looked strong. And by being absent of course he didn't do any tempo.

So, Big Donkey, Haqqi to be precise riding, rest not interested in having a chance. Still not sure why really, again, I didn't see myself as favorite no 1, but saw chances.. .started too late, but didn't matter in the least, even starting at 15' would have had no chance alone. They even could afford dropping one of the 4 guys in front, and just go with 3 leaders. And still 2' advantage. If we're 5 minutes closer, they keep him and we (manner of speaking) still don't catch them. Well, we not completely incorrect, since there was a newcomer who decided to put his whole team in tempo for a while, got us 3 or 4 minutes back.
At around 170 Hiroshi Matsuyama started siebing, he was there, use him, see how everybody can ride when dropped, which they could, so no technical issues preventing others from riding:). Come back, as expected, all stop, as expected, some completely pointless attacks, Big Donkey slowly riding at times, siebing again... in the end a nice group in the peloton, Son wins the sprint, but only because Behrens, the Schappy on his wheel with 55 sprint didn't even sprint, Probably felt Son deserved 4th place after being the only team riding for most of the race. Son went early, would have been beaten by Behrens. Of course the race would have been different if the peloton was riding for the win, some action, some attacks, would most likely have been there.... like this, peloton no chance it was just waiting siebing, ride to the finish, some sort of money sprint....

Clearly was a frustrating race... ok, my chances seem to have been better than I thought myself.. .so should just start chasing earlier, but still have no idea what the others were doing, why not even try to win? Worst that can happen is that you don't, but if you don't try, that result is assured. Not expecting people with 1 classic over 70 mountain and no sprint to ride obviously, but the teams mentioned above... I'd have ridden (or inscribed for a different time in Ovo's case) with those teams. But ok, not interested... .whatever.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Liquigas-CND
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Liquigas-CND » Thu May 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:24 am
Donkey Strade Bianche:
Waiting for Siena. An impressively actionless edition, basically everybody was waiting till the end, 6* to the finish. Favorite Kushbakov won, 1" before the other favorite (who had 0 chances according to his manager)Hurtado. If he takes the risk (a good manager would have, but one that prefers having no chances not) and follows instead of attacking himself, who knows.
Donkeystar Matsuyama, Hiroshi, took the risk and tried to follow Hurtado, couldn't, but at least he got to win a sprint, so 6th. Matsuoka followed Gajda, so was 1" ahead of Matsuyama. 4" back. 5+6th.
Double leader not ideal, perfect a long time, but once Rapid Vitesse dropped the helpers and there were only 2 Donkeys there... should have let Matsuoka help a Matsuyama. But well, take the risk, didn't work. But well, no ideal rider for this, Matsuyama's pavé is ok, his flat not, Matsuoka's pavé on the other hand not enough.
Hurtado attacked, did not follow so please dont write wron information here.
If I remember well Hurtado finished Strade Bianche in front of your rider :) but my tactic to take advantage of others work did not give results.
Kushbakov was too strong.


Km: 184, Steigung: 6, Kopfsteinpflaster: 1*, Meters left: 450
Knut Etzelsdorfer (Ansach) attackiert
Nick Möbius (Schappy) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Bernd Riedler (Ansach) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Nikola Vukcic (Melange) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Christian Graus (team gigi) attackiert
Andriy Yakovenko (Rapid Vitesse) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Jürgen Suntinger (Ansach) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Erasyl Ergaliev (Rapid Vitesse) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Reinaldo Hurtado (Liquigas-CND) attackiert
Hiroshi Matsuyama (Big Donkey) schafft es nicht mitzugehen
Andrei Zaharov (Freudenfeuer) schafft es nicht auszureissen
Richard Gajda (Schappy) attackiert
Hiroshi Matsuoka (Big Donkey) geht mit
-Tours won Giro'15,'16&18;TDF'16,'18;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:47
-Classics: 12

Liquigas-CND
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Liquigas-CND » Thu May 09, 2019 9:53 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:38 am
Gipfelstuermer wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:24 pm


Final sprint, hoped 70-64 without someone in the wheel could work. 57-64-70 also needed nobody in the wheel. So Donkey in my wheel would have been the killer anyways. Why would you ever prefer to be in the 57-64-70 train vs. a 63-63-81 and ??-69-82 train? Maybe if you think Gipfel is inredibly impatient (or stupid) and goes from 250m or something like that... but no, not really. Especially, since that Gipfel is building a hill-sprint team recently, he probably gained some sprint experience finally.

Had to think about why I was in your wheel, just seemed to make sense. Now think I remember!
Wauthier: not an option. 86, no train. Expect him to be on Palladino.
Palladino: Best sprint-train. Second strongest sprinter, energy wise most likely no 1. So hard to overtake. And expected Wauthier there.
Madsen: Good train, 63-63, even if Timmermans was weakish, at a sieb dropped behind where he should be. Still train no 2. And most likely free. But didn't trust him. It's Liquigas. There's a reason my slightly weaker sprinters win as much if not more than his stronger ones. Compare Kaniuk to Madsen... The reasons are:
1 luck. always underestimated.
2 Liquigas doesn't take risks. Rather not ride like at MSR than 'risk' riding and not winning. Somehow probably then doesn't feel like he lost? Ride, don't win=lost. Don't try=I had no chance. So simply didn't trust him. Don't actually remember his sprints much, he just seems the type that in a sprint will try to avoid the guy in his wheel more than going for the win. Plus that day he seemed not really there anyway. The king is the king and fantastic, but on Saturday a bit less fantastic than usual. Maybe got a new concubine? The whole race seemed... weird. Even for kingly standards. Dropping of Morricone when that group seemed through? Then at around km 200 an unkingly question: What should I do followed by tempo? Not his usual whiny self!
So that's 2 reasons I said no to Madsen. Lack of trust in his sprints, plus seemed unconcentrated.
Of course didn't think he would sprint as badly as he did...
In retrospect yeah, Madsen a good option, Wauthier on Palladino, his train slower, he can go earlier with only 72 on the wheel. 200 definitely, 250 maybe. Didn't think that far at the time, but even if I would have, see above. Trust+concentration.
Own train: Option gone with my ill advised attack with Matsubara. I actually seriously thought it would be a sort of surprise attack...not completely, but kind of. Timmermans there, with Son, not much else. Moja and Ansach with 89-88 more followed. Clearly wrong... should erode trust in my attacking abilities. Otherwise, 59-59-72, goooood form+energy. Ok vs you I thought not against a free Liquigas or the Palladino-Wauthier train.
So you. And Matsukaze-Son. Not Son Matsukaze. Plan was... 57, early change to 64 by you. The CC 69 can go at 200, not earlier really. 250 already a risk. So depending on where we are, not you, but I go at 250-300 with Matsukaze. For Son. You then can probably take Sons wheel with Chimbo, maybe need 100 meters to come back, not just 50 but then you have your chances too.
Or if the Liquitrain is nearby instead of going I can take the risk and change to him somewhere around 350-250.
Somehow seemed a good plan, but nothing turned out as expected really.
@BigDonkey: Hard for you to understand my decisions during MSR.
As I said many times my goal is to win by taking advantage of others work. Tried to apply this tactic, did not work , I am ok with that.
Dropping Morricone it was definitely a wrong decision, a mistake.

Anyway mainly with my tactic I've won in 2019:
- Brabantse Pijl - Michele Trapanese,
- Dwars Door Vlaanderen - Stijn Timmermans,
- Rund um den Turm - Gaetano Leggio

and I was close in the following classics:
- Reinaldo Hurtado - Monte Paschi 2nd
- Deinze Welvegem - Tobias Henriksen 2nd
- Vlaanderen Mooiste - Stijn Timmermans 2nd - could easily win by sprinting 50 m earlier ... my limited experience and knowledge of sprint was decisive
- Amstel - Kasper Madsen 2nd - again I think I could win this sprinting 50 m earlier;

You won only 1 race (ok is a 5 cat but I prefer 3 x cat 4 classics than 1 cat 5 classic) and managed to finish 4 times 3rd in classics.
Checking your results I realized that my tactic is better than yours so I would like to ask you to apply the same tactic next year; I am sure you will have better results.

Thanks
Liqui- Your King
-Tours won Giro'15,'16&18;TDF'16,'18;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:47
-Classics: 12

Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:24 am
If he takes the risk (a good manager would have, but one that prefers having no chances not) and follows instead of attacking himself, who knows.
Liquigas-CND wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:28 pm
Hurtado attacked, did not follow so please dont write wron information here.
You read almost as well as you ride.... Try again?
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 10, 2019 1:44 am

As for the second post... you being a much better manager than I am, just imagine what you would have managed to win with my superior strategy? Even I won a race, cat 5, you'd have won MSR and most likely at least 2 other monuments! Best manager (LiqLiq) with best strategy (not LiqLiq's), just imagine what you could do!

But ok, maybe you want to keep the game interesting for your subjects, we thank you for that of course.

Btw, if I remember correctly you said in a race a while ago that you tried a revolutionary new strategy at Amstel, having your helpers ride. Second place, despite having no chance (I'm sure that was the case). Outstanding!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Liquigas-CND
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:40 pm
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Liquigas-CND » Fri May 10, 2019 7:54 am

Robyklebt wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 am
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Robyklebt wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:24 am
If he takes the risk (a good manager would have, but one that prefers having no chances not) and follows instead of attacking himself, who knows.
Liquigas-CND wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 9:28 pm
Hurtado attacked, did not follow so please dont write wron information here.
You read almost as well as you ride.... Try again?
Following a 84-69 65-Pave 52-sprint with a 86-59 57-pave 46-sprint on 6%*?
Would have been stupid to try winning a sprint against that guy considering the profile of the last KM.
Now I understand why your team has such bad results!
You lack the knowledge and superior management skills!
-Tours won Giro'15,'16&18;TDF'16,'18;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:47
-Classics: 12

Robyklebt
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Robyklebt » Fri May 10, 2019 8:16 am

If you can follow, 46 vs 52 sprint. But on a +6, mountain counts. You have 2 more, that already closes the gap a a bit. As for pavé: pavé doesn't count in the sprint.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

Liquigas-CND
Posts: 413
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:40 pm
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Re: Spring Classics 2019

Post by Liquigas-CND » Fri May 10, 2019 9:30 pm

Liquigas Superior!!!
You have to admit little d0nkey!
-Tours won Giro'15,'16&18;TDF'16,'18;Vuelta'16,'17,'18;Tirreno'16,Catalunya'16,'18,Suisse'16,Romandie'16, Vasco'19,Andes'16
-Stages won in GTs:47
-Classics: 12

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