Giro

[iBanesto]

Teams were announced today.

Ag2R-La Mondiale
Astana
Caisse d'Epargne
Footon-Servetto
Garmin-Transitions
HTC-Columbia
Katusha
Lampre Farnese Vini
Liquigas-Doimo
Milram
Omega Pharma-Lotto
Quick Step
Rabobank
Saxo Bank
Sky Pro Cycling Team
Acqua & Sapone
Androni-Diquigiovanni
Bbox Bouygues Telecom
BMC Racing Team
Cervelo TestTeam
Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne
Colnago-CSF Inox

This means a NO for, among others: Radioshack (Armstrong in California, no Giro for the Shack), Vacansoleil, Skil-Shimano (despite start in the Netherlands), Euskaltel, FdJeux (both understandalbe to some degree), Ceramica Flaminia (bad Ricco), Carmiooro (bad Sella), De Rosa (bad DiLuca, no Petacchi, bad team) and ISD (no reason really, no Giro for Gatto, Visconti, Rujano?).
On the other hand we will probably see mediocre lineups from Footon, Bbox, Cofidis, Milram...

[Luna]

As far as I remember EUS and FDJ rode the Giro only in times of ProTour-obligations while not being particularly keen on it.


EDIT: and no ISD is bitter. I was looking forward to seeing little Rujano fight for the overall.

[Robyklebt]

FdJ actually rode the Giro before the PT too. Good that they show class now and don't ride.

Footon, BBox, Cofidis and Milram? They haven't been invited, they had a right to participate thanks to the agreement between the GT organizers and the PT teams in 08. Guaranteed GT participation for the PT teams at the time until 2010. Euskatel and FdJ "verzichten" on their own, if they wanted they could have started. Like Footon, BBox, Cofidis and Milram.

So 14 teams already clear, Androni, Acqua e Sapone, Sky, Garmin, Katusha, BMC, Cervelo all fairly clear, leaves only one open spot. Colnago vs ISD, Colnago won.. ISD has the bigger names. Visconti. Who is ok and nice, but not really the type of rider for a Giro. Rujano? 05 brillant, 06-09 an occasional good mountain TT, otherwise nothing. Then maybe Grabovskyy, who stopped drinking and is becoming more the rider he could be, but nothing brillant still. Gatto? pff. Colnago vs ISD probably I would have given the Wild Card to Colnago.

[iBanesto]

Yes, Footon et al were not "invited" by Zomegnan, but that doesn't make their teams better. Footon might even send a decent team, because they really can't count on the Tour because of their Ricco-history. So we may see Capecchi, Capelli, Cheula, Eibegger, Cardoso, Vitoria, decent team, but many young guys, no difference to the U25-teams Euskaltel and the French teams have been sending in the last years. Ag2r will be Valjavec + crap, like last year. Cofidis is doing at least two Grand Tours, maybe even the Vuelta with the Moncoutie-bonus. They have just 23 riders, good luck with that. I don't even want to start with Milram and Bbox.

ISD vs Colnago. CQ-Team-Ranking 2009:
22. ISD - Neri 3100 Points
...
33. CSF Group - Navigare 1656 Points

ISD was the main animator of the breakaways in the giro last year, Grivko and Visconti. They lost Grivko to Astana, but Grabovsky seems like a good replacement. Visconti was dominating last autumn. Really dominating. And don't forget Ruslan Pidgorny! Gatto! Rujano!!!!
CSF lost two out of their five best riders, Finetto and Baliani. Replaced by Gavazzi and Modolo. Plus Pozzovivo and they have a decent team. But yet another youth squad, Pozzovivo is the oldest with 27 years, half of the team is U25. I'm very sceptical, please proove me wrong Enrico Zen!

[Luna]

Since his return to europe I read Rujano stating many times that he has found new motivation and that he's keen on trying to win the overall. What more could Zomegnan ask for? That would have been really interesting. In addition, they finally altered their awfully blinding jersey colours at ISD, in which they animated the race on so many stages last year. I will miss them. Bad Zomegnan.

Carmiooro punished for signing Sella. Ok. But I saw oher organizers punishing the team a later doper has ridden for at the tie of the incident. So, leave out Colnago!

And what is with Caisse d'Epargne? They still have Valverde under contract who counts as a banned rider in Italy since months. His "quarantine after the ban" (Zomegnan's word) hasn't even begun. Will he leave them out after his ban runs out? But he welcomes them in times, they vehemently refuse to accept his guilt and let him ride and win out of italy (will he be stripped off his thousand successes he achieved since Puerto, by the way..?)? Strange.

I hope they will at least abondon their american subtitle style and write again "gruppo compatto" or "teste della corsa" instead of "bunch packed" or "head of the race", now that, without Lance, nobody in the U.S. will be interested in the Giro anymore.

[Robyklebt]

Call them COLNAGO and you have part of the explanation. But only part.

Not saying that Footon, Bbox, Milram and Cofidis will bring much to the race, agree that having ISD, Flaminia and CarmiOro plus Xacobeo with Mosquera would probably be a better race.

But there Zomegnan had no choice.

ISD-Colnago? Add Flaminia too.

ISD, yes, Visconti, but Visconti is a rider for classics, he isn't really a big + for a GT. Of course he doesn't hurt either. Rujano? Would have liked seeing him. But what else? Gatto? After Grillo the most overrated italian sprinter of all times?? He's just not that good. A Grabovskyy that finally starts riding a bit better? Ok. Pydgornyy, ok, like him. Any others? But it's basically an average team, with one big question mark, Rujano. The animating the race can and has been done by other teams too.
Colnago: Yep, extreme youth team. Difference between them and BBox etc is that they will be at least motivated. For the GC Pozzovivo can do well, Zen, Gaia, first experience at this level, we'll see. Rujano everything seems possible, from 1 to 100, Pozzovivo is a safe bet for 6-10 IMO. Between the 2 I rather have Rujano of course, but add Zen, Gaia just to see if they can do anything and it's already closer. Sprints? Modolo, already now clearly better than Gatto. Then there is Belletti who had a good season with Savio last year, he is better than Gatto as well. Others, Frapporti, but don't remember why I remember the name.... Brambilla, who I think was in the cicloweb "young talents" preview as well... possible GC rider maybe, don't remember, will have to check.... Overall the more interesting team. Had Zomegnan taken ISD would have been ok too, they are close, Rujano even with a ? vs Pozzovivo and a few yound talents that might develop into something.
Flaminia: Riccò... happy not to see Mr "can't trust Vania Rossi, our relationship is over until she proves her innocence". The rest? Caruso, would have liked to see him, he could have done well. Enrico Rossi, had a very good season last year. Then Noè, even at 85 still active, and after that a whole bunch of interesting riders that I would have liked to see at the Giro level, Bailetti, Anza, Fumagalli, Colli. The team is not really weaker than ISD, very similar, even if they had made a special no Riccò rule. Including Riccò and ignoring the fact that the guy is a complete fuck up, and doesn't deserve to ride the Giro it probably should have been the team invited, without Riccò, still roughly the same level as the 2 others.

All 3 teams can be invited, there is no completely wrong or completeyl right choice, Flaminia out due to Riccò, the 2 others very close, one more potential overall, one with one possible CG surprise, one is called Colnago, the other not... is ok.

but anyway, it's Zomegnan, it's the Giro... Wouldn't really be a huge surprise if there were changes.. normally there shouldn't be ok, but RCS clearly stated that the list will only be finalized on may 3rd and even mentioned 6 replacement teams... unless a big doping scandal breaks or an invited team like Katusha or Garmin announces a really bad team (but usually he should have asked about that already anyway) there won't be changes... but with the idiot in charge you never really know...

[iBanesto]

All 3 teams can be invited, there is no completely wrong or completeyl right choice, Flaminia out due to Riccò, the 2 others very close, one more potential overall, one with one possible CG surprise, one is called Colnago, the other not... is ok.

The other one rolls on Cipollini bikes. That also counts for something.
But I'm ok with this paragraph, they are close, preferring one or the other is subjective. Objectively, Colnago is a young team, Modolo and Brambilla are neo-professionals, you can't demand much from them. Putting them in a GT in the first year is already a risk. Then you have people like Zen, who is just like Pozzovivo 3 years ago, a hopeful. And then there's Gaia, who is a sausage.
Anyway, I can live with that decision, but this could well be another year of ridiculous invite policies, if we see Cofidis in three GTs and Vacansoleil in (n)one, which could be the case.

[Luna]

By the way.. I would leave Team Sky out of the GTs for their first year, since they proved they don't ride to defend a leaders jersey. Very bad behaviour. Such things should be taken into account as well.

[Luna]

Simoni and Cunego united again at Lampre. Funny. They both have the same goals again, winning stages. Could be an interesting fight between them^^

[iBanesto]

Evans strong in the classics. He is a serious contender for the giro. But in the last weeks his team broke into pieces: Kroon injured, Burghardt and Hincapie scheduled for California, Frei caught on EPO, Ballan and Santambrogio under investigation. Out of the BMC preselection I found at cyclingstartlists.com we have the following names left beside Evans:

Michael Schär
Steve Morabito
Florian Stalder
Jeff Louder
Brent Bookwalter
Martin Kohler
Jackson Stewart
Chad Beyer
Danilo Wyss
Simon Zahner
John Murphy

Combined GT-experience: 5 starts. Schär did the Vuelta last year, Stalder did the Vuelta once upon a time with Phonak (!), and the rest is on Morabito's account. I see disaster.

[NoPikouze]

Nice team

But IF they have to defend yellow, they can turn out to be surprisingly good. That happens. Like some rabobank nonames last year, who did great.
Only real problem might be their lack of experience, course reading, and maybe one very good climber (I dont know those riders at all)

[Luna]

I don't use startlists.com anymore. That guy got on my nerves with his constant comments on single riders or teams.
No surprise that fdJeux denied him writing their team name in his lists.

Since some months I look at http://www.cyclingfever.com/ or directly on the races' websites for the startlists.

[iBanesto]

Rokokokoko: Rabobank last year was different, that was a solid, average team. Not one of those GT-Winning-machines we are used from the likes of Astana, Disco, Saxo Banc, but it was a solid team with a good mixture of experience and youth.

Luna: Here's how I remember the story: "Mad" Marc Madiot wanted money for giving them the names. So they decided to not mention his team's name anymore in return.

Next rookie team on the line, CSF. Sorted by age at the start of the giro:
27: Pozzovivo
25: Bisolti, Frapporti, Marangoni
24: Belletti, Canuti, Stortoni
23: Pirazzi
22: Modolo

Combined GT-experience: 3 Giri. All done by Pozzovivo, so the others really have none.

[Robyklebt]

No no.. the way I remember it was:

Unibet, not allowed in France, since there is a law that forbids gambling advertisement except for government lotterys.. Which fdj is as far as I know. To 'punish' them, no more 'advertisement' for Unibet

RAbo=BMC? Biggest difference: Menchov 70000 times better than Evans. Same of course counts for the rest..

CSF? No Zen.. .mmh

[Luna]

@BMC-Desaster: Cadel should be used to ride a GT without a team behind him^^ But for that he wouldn't have needed to leave Lotto.

@startlists/fdj:
-But I don't know why Madiot should require payment from startlists-com, while every other website in the net is seemingly allowed to publish informations about them. I think there must've been another issue that has led to such a measure.

-What has Unibet to do with it? startlists-com a friend of Unibet? Sponsored by them? I don't understand.

[Robyklebt]

Unibet, PTTeam, that in the ProTour-Aso/RCS/Unipublic fight, was the victim that's wasn't invited to the races despite the PT Licence. Obviously part of the UCI-ASO etc fight, show the UCI that they were calling the shots. And one reason that was always given (in France at least) was Gambling advertisement not allowed.

So cycling startlists started boycotting FdJ, one of the lotteries that are allowed to advertise in France...

At least that's how I remember it, could be wrong though.

[iBanesto]

Whatever, I still like their startlists, very tidy and oldschool.
Instead I continue being a hater, Footon this time:

30: Cheula
...
28: Mayoz
27: Pedersen
...
25: Capelli, Eibegger, Merlo
24: Corti
23: Capecchi
22: Merino
...
20: Brändle

10 names, so one will be reserve. More experienced than CSF, but still crap. I hope they're not kicking Brändle, because he really is one of the better riders here...

[Robyklebt]

Of course crap...

Rujano MIGHT join. But Trentino wasn't really convincing, so... but ISD probably will let him go after May 3rd, when the invitations are 100% official, until then Zomegnan might change his mind (if he even has one that idiot)

[Luna]

Ah, I see. So it was the startlists-guy who throw the first stone at fdj, not vice versa.

And I understand very well that the return of riders like Vinokurov is seen controversial by the masses. But when you go to a website to get to know if Vino will be at the start of a race, and you find something like "Astana - 1 - Alexandre Vinokurov - Go away you fucking Bastard, nobody wants to see you in the peloton" (or words to that effect), then I simply doubt his journalistic abilities or at least I feel any other but invited to use that site. And that was not the first issue like that, but the last for me.

It's okay when a person believes that a rider who's caught doping is a cheater, while any other rider, who returns negative tests throughout his career is the pure model athlete that has won his multiple GT titles or monument wins (for example) in the cleanest possible way. It's okay to believe the media and the ones who "create" positives or negatives for this or that rider, to believe that there are no conspiracies and no preferences or disadvantages for the different riders and their stand towards the powers of the game.
But if you once got to the idea that it is well possible to address a positive test for substance A to a rider, who never used substance A, but substance B, like any other high level rider did or does (but what you can't prove, unfortunately), than you get disturbed by people who base their accusations solely on the news and information that we're told to believe, rather than spending one or two more thoughts on the matter, or at least allowing some doubts over it.

We simply don't know enough to make such statements like that guy does. A cheater is a cheater, regardless of if he's caught or not. You cannot blame the caught ones and at the same time cheer at the rest of the peloton. If that guy feels betrayed by the peloton than he shall turn his back on it. But if he wants to address the dirt in the sport, than he shall think more thorougly about the matter. But only roaring at the ones that had been selected to be sacrificed (by whomever) is just naiv in my eyes.

When you decide to be loud than you better do it in a more thoughtful way.

I just don't like his way.

[iBanesto]

Someone's got to start and I like being first...

***** Carlos Sastre
**** Cadel Evans, Alexandre Vinokourov
*** Michele Scarponi, Vincenzo Nibali, Ivan Basso
** Francesco Masciarelli, Domenico Pozzovivo, Vladimir Karpets, Giampaolo Caruso
* Stefano Garzelli, Yury Trofimov, Rigoberto Uran, Daniel Moreno, Chris Anker Sörensen

No comment now.

[iBanesto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZICRHXYM22w

[NoPikouze]

***** Cadel Evans
**** Alexandre Vinokourov, Carlos Sastre
*** Vincenzo Nibali, Rigoberto Uran, Ivan Basso
** Wiggins, Cunego
* Trofimov, Sorensen

Lot of others I don't really know about... Gerdemann, pozzato, karpets, pozzovivo, vandevelde ?


EDIT: Scarponi* and he will probably have some offdays

[Robyklebt]

MMh, almost the same names as iBan for me...

***** I. Basso
**** C. Sastre, F. Masciarelli
*** D. Moreno, D. Pozzovivo, M. Scarponi
**C. Evans, R. Uran, D. Cunego, G. Caruso
* B. Samoilau, C.A. Sörensen, B. Mollema, A. Vinokurov, S. Garzelli

[Lizard]

***** Ivan Basso
**** Cadel Evans, Alexandre Vinokourov
*** Domenico Pozzovivo, Carlos Sastre, Michele Scarponi, Christian Vandevelde
** Damiano Cunego, Vincenzo Nibali, Chris Anker Sörensen
* Linus Gerdemann, Vladimir Karpets

[olmania]

***** BASSO Ivan
**** EVANS Cadel, SASTRE Carlos, KARPETS Vladimir
*** VANDEVELDE Christian, NIBALI Vincenzo, SØRENSEN Chris Anker, VINOKOUROV Alexandre
** SCARPONI Michele, BRUSEGHIN Marzio, CUNEGO Damiano, WIGGINS Bradley
* GARZELLI Stefano, MONCOUTIE David, POZZOVIVO Domenico, SZMYD Sylvester