The Zoo

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Robyklebt
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The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:44 am

Robert Walrus Sheep Klebt and Petit Singe welcome you to the zoo! What's the zoo? For the German speaking boys and girls, the answer is simple, it's the same thing as "Robys gediegener Salon" was in the old German forum. For those who weren't in that forum: Roby (supervised by the ape) posts about topics he cares, answers are allowed, yes, they are very welcome, it's not supposed to be a one way teaching thread. Even though I will always be right and those who disagree wrong, and I'll note their names and insult them in other places.
Actually was thinking if I should take the zoo to the new RSF Newspaper. But, as I said, want answers, in the news it would be a column, which is not what the zoo is about.

Some rules:

BEHAVE: Yes, it's a zoo, unlike the tea salon we had before there are no carpets, but it's a modern zoo. "Artgerechte Haltung", the animals have enough space, good food, cable TV and for the intelligent ones computers with internet access to play RSF. So behave appropriately. No feeding of the animals, they get enough food, no entering the enclosures, no swearing and insulting, some of the animals might be young. Treat the animals and the other visitors with respect.
STAY ON TOPIC: Yes, it's off topic, still, even off topic there are topics. And here R.W.S. Klebt (under the supervision of the monkey) will mostly decide what the topic and any given moment is. Ok, you have something that is in the vein of the KLebt topics, ok, post it here, no problem. But no idiotic spamming or whatever.

Ok, the first topic is:

An oldie:
ALPHABETIZE. If that's a word... What I mean is simple. When you inscribe your riders for a race, put them in alphabetical order. Of the family name. A, then B, then C. Nr 1 to the leader, if you have 2 leaders, maybe 2 to the second leader or co-leader (which by the way is not leader nr 2, but a leader at the same level as the other one, so if you have a leader nr 1, and a leader nr 2, in this order, don't call leader nr 2 co-leader) if you have one. The rest: Strictly alphabetical. Why? It's just aesthetically pleasing. And 95% of the teams in reality do it as well, But mostly it's just more beautiful than just doing it by skills or by no real system at all.

A new topic as well:

DON'T KILL COUNTRIES

So don't overfill a country with your riders. Small country, few riders, oh, good chance to get a national champion here, let's make it my new base. Boring. And sutpid. Boring, because, yes, you will win the National title most of the time. But how interesting will the race be? Very boring. And RSF is still about one thing, fun. (It really should be about praising me, but Buhmann disagrees and makes it about fun) So do your part so it is fun. Don't "buy" National championships, gain them in a race. Plus nobody will really care or think you are good if you dominate a Nation forever. Is anybody impressed that Robyklebt and the ape have won all expcept 2 chinese national championships? Doubt it. What counts is how fun the race is. And if you put in 7 riders in a country that otherwise has only 1-2 riders from one team is: You kill the possible fun in that country. Of course that counts mostly for small RSF countries. The big ones, no problem, or if there is already another big team, why not. But for small countries with no clear NC favorite... don't kill the NC. Make 2 riders. Make 3. Maybe even 4. Look at the country, then decide. One of the countries that has almost always had exciting NC is Romania. Why? Because there are always 2-4 active teams with 2-4 riders. So one will be the favorite maybe, 4 riders, but others have 2, one team 4, 2 team 2, the race can be fun. So if you like a country, want to win an NC, nothing wrong with that. But try to win the NC without killing the fun. A situation like Romania again, if somebody makes a team with 7 riders there, it would kill it. Yes, the 3 right now other active teams with 2-3 rides, would still have a chance maybe, but long term they might think... boring, that guy is just too strong, I look for another fun country, and the after 1 year you have your 7 riders against... nobody. Where is the fun in that? Nowhere.

The second point is: You decrease the chances that county has for reaching the World Championship. Same thing as mentioned above. Others will not be encouraged to create riders from that country, what for, will never have a chance in the NC anyway. So I go to another one. Happened with Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan, planned an Uzbek, got a Kazakh. Both countries are dominated by one team, but in Uzbekistan it's worse, one team with 7 riders and really nobody else, in Kazakhstan one team with 10 riders but a few others with 2-5. Both those managers, Alster and Coesitz of course are boring nation killers, and I plan to insult Coesitz a lot during the Kazakh NC, but for the moment the situation in Kazakhstan is a bit better, thanks to the few others. There an interesting NC is possible. So, people like me still can imagine to make 1-2 riders there. In Uzbekistan? Pff. Get your NC Mr Nation Killer, but don't expect any help to get your Uzbek stars into the WC. Not that Kazakhstan can count on my long term support, if the situation is unchanged in a year, one killer team, the ape will get out and look for another country to support. And I suspect many managers think like that. Want to have a chance to win the NC. If the only chance is to make 5+ riders? Pff, I go to another country. So, by overfilling "your" county with riders you hurt that country in 2 ways. 1: Boring NC. 2. You weaken the country. If you really really want to win the NC in a certain country, ok, why not. Make 4 riders in Romania. I'll stay, with my 2-3 riders I'll do everything to win myself. But with 4 riders you're finally more likely to win than me. Make 8 riders in Romania and I'll say bye bye. Have fun dominating offliners. You just killed a country, congrats. I'll look for a new country that offers interesting NCs.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Cerro Torre RT » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:48 pm

Well, about the alphabetization. You tell there is only an aesthetic aspect, but there is another one in RSF, a functional one: The order in the racing or the tactic screen. While it's not that a difference in the racing screen, for those who use the tacitc screen there are advanteges putting them in another order, whatever system they may choose. While in the racing screen the order differs anyway due to who does work, in the tactic screen it's forever the same. And because of that it provides a faster access to the correct settings if you are perfectly used to which rider of which skill is in which position. For me, I am used to that by 4 years. I tried it with an alphabetic order a few times and recognized I am faster in changing the settings in the tactics menu and produce a lot less errors if i orden the riders my way. So for the alphabtization there is a aesthetic advantage against a fuctional disadvantage, and i clearly chose the the last one to be more important.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:50 pm

Only takes time getting used to it. Ok, due to performance issues with Firefox (freezes more often after using the tactic menu) I don't use it that often, even when I ride with Opera. But I think it's mostly a problem in the beginning. You get used to the order fairly fast. Like in the inscription screen. I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows almost automatically who is where. And a new riders often confuses me in the beginning. But after a week or 2 I'm used to the new guy too. Similar in the race, alphabetize and after a while you know automatically that Machoro is in the lower middle, Feng in the upper middle etc etc.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Lizard » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:28 pm

1st topic!
I don´t think Cerro ever tried to alphabetize.. I started Giro 09, the ape encouraged me to alphabetize. First Giro week had slight problems to orientate myself, afterwards no problem at all. Especially now when my team is growing I expected problems but they never showed. The functional disadvantage is just in a time of 1-2 weeks where you get used to it. Nevermind if 4 years ridden or not I guess. And I see without determinating my riders´ order depending on skills I keep myself open more tactical options automatically. It´s not like "No 9 rides tempo first, then No 8, then etc" but "Oh, I keep try put that guy here and afterwards this" because rider order and tactical order aren´t linked together (which I see very frequently).

2nd topic!
Good point, I never saw it like this. Though I was over a year absolutely dominant in the czech championships because the profiles were perfect for Wollfinger it could´ve been close sometimes. On the last win Olmse came back with a big mass of several riders, I won (I think so at least) and afterwards ended with my czech engagement. I never had more than 3 czech riders in the NCs, so it was always close because I had to work and find the right kms... dominant, but interesting. Some riders were almost equal, could block me perhaps or something, one rider more by another team and maybe situation totally changes. When Olmse returned as I said, went to the swissmen and belgians. And this article brings me to maybe earlier buy a helper from a little country. Wanted to turn Asia aswell, the Zoo has a good influence on me! Already planned a hero. Let´s see if he´ll be asian, I´ll keep it open right now..
Wizards Cycling: De toenemende Ster van Amsterdam

Hall of Fame:
Adam Wollfinger (73-82-80-47-57, 64 Reg)
Herbert Königsbauer (87-60-66-54-53, 57 Reg)
Manuel Clausen (76-83-63-46-64, 57 Reg)
Tom van Amstel (74-80-74-50-65, 35 Reg)

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Cerro Torre RT » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:43 pm

Lizard, what do you consider to be more precise, your supposing or my knowlegde... And that ordening the riders skill-dependend would provide a cut on the tactical possibilities is a perfect nonsense. If you get limited to your tactical positions because some rider has forever one number, you will do shit no matter of how you orden your riders. With me, that is not the case, because my riders are skill-ordened, not tactic-ordend. My advantage is if I need a superquick decission i don't need to look oh there is a 70-80 next to a flat rider be careful which one you use... If I need a flat rider to do tempo I can do a reflex click on 7, that's forever a flat rider, and 8 and 6 are most cases, too. If you orden your riders by skills, there has to be a link to the tactic, no doubt, because tactic is linked to skills. But it doesn't mean tacitc is fixed by the order. What it does, it provides a very good correlation between rider position and rider type and that can save me a deciding second in an important situation.
And if I have to include a new rider to my team, I need not more then 2 races in worst case to know where he is.
So I see no reason that is worth giving up those advantages. I made it so long by now that it would cost me more than a month to learn with probably plenty of errors. Without any funtional advantage as reward, there is no way I will do so.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Lizard » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:32 pm

I think you didn´t quite understand my point. Because what I meant was just that having alphabetized riders makes me more focused on which to use, which to attack etc etc. 1st you see this is my experience, you can´t falsify my experience. 2nd I still guess you never tried so don´t prejudice (if it´s the case).

EDITH: Pardon, think I start dicussing, Lizard out here.
Wizards Cycling: De toenemende Ster van Amsterdam

Hall of Fame:
Adam Wollfinger (73-82-80-47-57, 64 Reg)
Herbert Königsbauer (87-60-66-54-53, 57 Reg)
Manuel Clausen (76-83-63-46-64, 57 Reg)
Tom van Amstel (74-80-74-50-65, 35 Reg)

Luna
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Luna » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:47 pm

Can we have maybe have just one nice little carpet for some comfortable ambience? You could install one in the tropical bungalow for example. It's always nicely warm there.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Alkworld » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:28 am

There is an easy solution for your alphabetization problem, just name your riders according to their skills: From Esteban Aruba to PedroLuis Zottel, from Yuri Amov to Iordan Zulescu, from Lionel Array to Reto Zötschi. Looks good and is practical!

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Cerro Torre RT » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:38 am

Would work, but doesn't help the asthetic aspect... 9 good without order does look quite better than alphabetizised... well, not so good ones.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Buhmann » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:44 pm

It could be done automatically...but borring. The Radler-System: Nr 1: Leader, 2 till 8 ordered by best climber. Nr 9 a new or my favorite rider. Okay, i don´t make it always that way, but often.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Bear » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:24 pm

Really comfortable here. Bears like Zoos... and the alphabetical order. When I started RSF I organized my riders on their mountain skill. But after a while I realized that this system is kind of boring... ok, maybe more easy to controll. But who cares, I make a lot of mistakes anyway. I tried the alphabetical order and I liked it. But I can understand people who order their riders different... it's up to you... it's your team.

Nations? As I don't really care about national championships I stay with my favorite country/countries. I choose the country because I like it very much. Sometimes it's just a famous person (to me) which I would like to have in my team. That's why Canada will always be the No.1 in my team.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by team fl » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:38 pm

From the A to the B to the C to the Z, it is called the Alphabet :)

But beware of little nations. This is called protection of minorities. But as it usually workes, every nation hype will end one day.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Buhmann » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:25 pm

About countries:

Choose the nation of every rider by yourself is unrealistic. The nation should be fixed even they have to get a name. People who want only riders from Vatican or whatever they have to take one of the few riders which have this nationality! Okay, too technically for the zoo.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by NoPikouze » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:46 pm

I have my riders in skill/tactical order (unless it's a GT)
But that's not necessarily because i prefer it this way, but because when i sign up for a race, I think "hmm this is my leader 1, this is my last rider 2, these are my best helpers, 3-4-5"
It would take much more time to select the 9 without giving numbers and then sort them mentally, and then giving numbers... I'm not even sure I'm able to keep focus during the whole thing!
Ok maybe after several times, you know which name comes after another...
But it would help a lot if the riders were always sorted by their last name. On every screen. :)
Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo...

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:49 pm

Lizard wrote:
EDITH: Pardon, think I start dicussing, Lizard out here.
Discussing ok. Of course we're not going to convince Cerro to become a alphabetizer, which is not a big problem. I'll continue preaching anyway, if we don't get Cerro we maybe get somebody else. Hey, even ZL alphabetized his team for this Vuelta, and I thought he would never do it. He seemed to have to much fun telling me. "Hey, have you seen the numbers of my riders today yet?" Then some horrible things like F Z A T B T.. brrr.. Now I hope he wins that damn Vuelta, otherwise he'll claim it's the alphabets fault.
Luna wrote:Can we have maybe have just one nice little carpet for some comfortable ambience? You could install one in the tropical bungalow for example. It's always nicely warm there.
NO carpets. Mmh, ok, we could open a carpet museum in the off topic too. Then post nice pictures of carpets. But, no carpets in the Zoo.
Buhmann wrote:It could be done automatically...but borring. The Radler-System: Nr 1: Leader, 2 till 8 ordered by best climber. Nr 9 a new or my favorite rider. Okay, i don´t make it always that way, but often.
It's not called system, it's called lazyness :D
Bear wrote:Really comfortable here. Bears like Zoos... and the alphabetical order. When I started RSF I organized my riders on their mountain skill. But after a while I realized that this system is kind of boring... ok, maybe more easy to controll. But who cares, I make a lot of mistakes anyway. I tried the alphabetical order and I liked it. But I can understand people who order their riders different... it's up to you... it's your team.

Nations? As I don't really care about national championships I stay with my favorite country/countries. I choose the country because I like it very much. Sometimes it's just a famous person (to me) which I would like to have in my team. That's why Canada will always be the No.1 in my team.
Topic 2, ha. That's the answer I expected when I saw that Cerro had answered here. Don't care about NC! Ok, he didn't still a bit confused about that. Now you. Ok, you don't care, but others do, why not let them a chance? And nothign wrong with having Canadians, but does it really have to be that many? 10 of your 13 riders now. Why not go down to... 8? 7? Depending on the country, here Canada, a country that usually is quite popular, so I think other teams might have 5+ riders too. It just makes the NC more interesting. Even if you don't care about it, you probably care about having fun. And NCs CAN be fun. If it's a fairly open race between a few managers. But Canada isn't really one of the countries that were meant primarily. It's more the smaller countries, that aren't that popular anyway. Nepal for example, IbanMayo always having x riders there basically made it very unattractive for all others. Or leso in India for a while, ZL the loser for example went out of India because leso just had too many riders and made the NC boring. For those countries a too big number of riders in one team hurts the country and kills the NCs. In Canada much less.
Buhmann wrote:About countries:

Choose the nation of every rider by yourself is unrealistic. The nation should be fixed even they have to get a name. People who want only riders from Vatican or whatever they have to take one of the few riders which have this nationality! Okay, too technically for the zoo.
No no, not too technical for the zoo. The first problem of your proposal though is almost unsurmountable. It's called Buhmann. The guy that for example has a text by Hansa somewhere, he has had that text for over a year. Maybe 2 already? A longer text explaining to new managers how the nations committee works. Explaining what names don't deserve a nation, explaining the criteria the riders have to fulfill to keep their desired nationality. A text that should have or at least could have been put on the site a loong time ago, but hasn't been put up. Buhmann ;)
The second problem: It's a bit restrictive. While I'm here complaining a bit, generally the choosing of nations works ok, There are some nations that don't get the number of riders they should, Iran as usual, generally it works. Vanuatu, Tuvalu, Barbados, Romania, South Korea, Zimbabwe Belize etc are minnows. Occasionally they get a good rider, occasionnally they qualify for the WC, but normally not. So it works fairly fine, some fine tuning necessary maybe to guide people to Iran and away from Tuvalu, but generally it works ok. And it's nice that we can chose the names and nation of our riders ourselves. And look around, the great majority gives their riders good names. And as I said the spreading of riders to nations works ok too. Why restrict that?
The third problem: It's not necessarily a bad idea, but of course it would have to be done right. Here again something to do with problem nr 1, Buhmann. If you give the new riders a nation before the name, then of course the type of rider should adjusted to the country as well. In Colombia a climber more likely than a sprinter, sprinter highely unlikely. In Tuvalu since it's completely flat probably a climber should be highely unlikely. Actually a rider with more than 60 anywhere probably shoudl be unlikely. Etc etc.
The fourth problem: Increase of the workload for the nations committee. The rider you really want is Chinese. Oh, Nakamura, sounds Chinese. NO IT DOESN'T (I hope that by now you understand that too) An Iranian. Bah, Franz Krajak, sounds Iranian enough. No no no no.

Not even necessarily opposed to it actually, don't really see the necessity for it, but see some good aspects. But see the 4 problems above as well, that's why Klebtadamus predicts:
In the year of the great win,
the brainfart of the maker,
will not smell to strong
and dissipate into the void
NoPikouze wrote:I have my riders in skill/tactical order (unless it's a GT)
But that's not necessarily because i prefer it this way, but because when i sign up for a race, I think "hmm this is my leader 1, this is my last rider 2, these are my best helpers, 3-4-5"
It would take much more time to select the 9 without giving numbers and then sort them mentally, and then giving numbers... I'm not even sure I'm able to keep focus during the whole thing!
Ok maybe after several times, you know which name comes after another...
But it would help a lot if the riders were always sorted by their last name. On every screen. :)
Ah, the alphabetical sorting is fun. After a while you know it, but during the inscription the Ape still goes. a a a b b c c c c etc etc.And of course the riders sorted alphabetically, LAST NAME would be cool. And fairly normal too. The new design thingy will all be sortable. I REALLY hope Buhmann makes it sortable according to the last name as well. I'd even say, make that the default setting. Then since all screens will be sortable everybody can change it and sort it how he/she/it (you see, I'm thinking about Aix too) likes it. But having the last name as default setting might get us some more alphabetizers! So if Buh makes that he will get a honorary membership in the RFARA (Revolutionary Front Againt RSF Analphabetism).
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Cerro Torre RT » Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:34 pm

Robyklebt wrote:
Topic 2, ha. That's the answer I expected when I saw that Cerro had answered here. Don't care about NC! Ok, he didn't still a bit confused about that.
No you see how few I really care about NC's.

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Re: The Zoo

Post by NoPikouze » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:41 pm

*** Discreetly feeding the little apes with peanuts ***
Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo...

Luna
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Luna » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:35 pm

Don't feed the animals!

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Re: The Zoo

Post by NoPikouze » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:51 pm

Sssssht don't tell the zoo keeper, please sir :cry:
They are looking so cute...
Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo...

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Re: The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:10 pm

The Zoo is still open. And time for another oldie. I never get to write the new stuff...


Todays topic is: Participation

Not the first time, was a topic in Roby's Salon before, was a topic here, wrote 3/4 of the text than managed to delete it, RSF Firefox froze, restart it, close everything, copy it, then continue, did that, but stupid Phileas used a french word about José Touré I didn't know, ok, control c, leo, control p, aha... ..later oh fuck shit, my whole text lost. That was in october or november, but of course it isn't forgotten, so you get the text, with lots of questions, now.

First part

The awards in december. Ok, too late, wanted to remind everybody to vote, too late the awars passed with horrible participation. And I don't really get why. I like the Awards, I like to see who is regarded as the best rider of the year, I like who is regarded as best team, best classic rider etc. etc. Don't always agree with the result, 09 for me the rider of the year was Leupold and not Reynolds (but voted for neither I think, only afternoon riders as a reaction to the Vuelta scandal then) , but the majority said Reynolds. Ok, for me it was 1 Leupold 2 Reynolds, so 1 Reynolds 2 Leupold is not scandalous, than what I thought. Or this year, for me Clausen was better than Terranova, nr 1 classic, the majority said it was the other way around. Ok, no problem. And exactly that makes in interesting too, to see how different people rate different achievements differently. The awards would be very boring if everybody voted exactly the same way. Anyway, I like the awards, just don't like the bad participation. Especially in the rider of the year award. And I don't get why. So here a question:

- Why don't you participate in the rider of the year award?
- Why don't you participate in the other awards?

Answer only sensible if you don't participate of course.. And ok, maybe the wrong place to ask since the ones reading are most likely the ones participating... still.. .answers by the boycotters welcome!

Second part

Hall of fame. In November or october or when it was the original plan was to try to help to save the Hall of Fame too. Ok, when I started to write, it was already dead too... Easy system devised by Cerro. Nominate, he then makes a selection if he has too many nominations, every month a vote. A rider gets in, Cerro writes something about the rider in the newspaper. My prediction to Cerro was: It will be dead by January. I was wrong, it was dead before it started, even for the first vote, where I, as an optimist, expected quite a few nominations, he didn't get enough. 5 nominations by 3 people? And 2 didn't qualify yet for the hall of fame? Something like that. So it was dead. Why? Again, don't get it. What would be easier than nominate some riders that you think deserve to be there? Then vote when the vote comes, then read about them? I for one would have liked reading about Schneller (whom I nominated) Verpalu, Habermacher, Leupold etc. Yes, many here don't remember Schneller. Weren't here yet. Nobody excepting them to nominate Schneller. But if you started in 08/09, you maybe know Carrasco, Rodrigo Escobar, Stefansson, Scheichelbauer, Berry or somebody else that in your opinion deserves a nomination. But 3 or 4 people nominated, that's it. Why? Again, don't get it. I thought it was a nice idea and would have enjoyed reading about the guys that come in every month. So here a question again.

- Why weren't you participating? Nominating? Just not interested in reading about succesful former riders?

Third part:

-Why weren't you participating

The newspaper: That's the advantage of writing it only now, this part is new, but it was predictable that it would end up here as well. The newspaper is basically dead. No, not because it doesn't have a link to the new site yet. Mostly because: Nobody writes. Anything. Some early efforts, mostly by Aux, some others too, but... now basically dead. Nobody writes anything, so of course nobody reads anymore. And again, when Widar made it, everybody seemed happy, cool, we get a newspaper again. But a newspaper needs writers. Why is nobody doing anything? Again, I don't get it, why not occasionally write some articles about something in the newspapers? Do an interview with somebody? Write a column about something? Yes, I'm not doing more for the newspaper either and have no plans to do more either. Why? Since I will ask you this question I answer it myself too. Ah fuck it, I DID write something for the newspaper in January. Ha. No need to answer then, but I'll do it anyway. I design quite a lot of real races, which takes time too, see me and the other designer as the "last" ones that should write for the newspapers. Yeah, I probably have more time than most others in the game, priorities boys, you need to get your priorities straight, but still, 5 hours a week or right now more due to the horror of the north is enough I think. Plus I don't use my extratime for ICQing around with my online friends.
Now your turn.
-Do you like reading stuff in the newspaper?
-If yes, what kind of stuff?
-If yes, why don't you write something, that woudl interesest you so you assume it interest others too, for the newspaper? Regularly if possible.


Fourth part

Part 1-3 are in the end only an extenstion of part 4. Forumparticipation. And I mean mostly: Race threads, rider threads, not technical or fairness stuff, in fairness we have too many participants almost... In the old german forum at the beginning we had lively race threads. Yes, maybe I was lucky to end up at Radler times in the beginning, Radler, Robyklebt, Vive, ZB too, Bella, we always knew something to write about the race. And was interesting to read. Of course weren't always nice either, insulting bella, getting insulted by bella, making fun of Radler, fight with Vive. The "death" of interesting race threads started early, already in 07-08 less and less, 09-10-11... by know we basically have nothing worth reading in race threads anymore. I start with 1-9, my goals are this and this. That's mostly it. Then nothing worth reading. Why not? I for one would have loved reading more about the Andes, the Radler-Cerro group, despite my unorthodox online times I really can't watch those races live. And even if, sometimes still nicer to read about it, what was Radler thinking (nothing most likely...) why did Cerro react the way he dide (ok, there was a split team attack?) Mmh, maybe bad example. :lol: anyway, read what happened, plus why did a do what he did. If he wants to write it, if he feels it destroy his whole masterplan to write: I chased because I have from 85 and plan to win the Andes on day x because then I will be in good form, so until then I chase.... ok, maybe don't write that... go around it... I think I managed to write quite a lot druing the Giro without clearly saying that I had form for Gamov in the end and was happy as long as I stayed within striking distance until the last 3 days... you can write about your plans and thoughts without giving away all your superplans, and if you can't probably the plan is shit somehow... Anyway, just write. I for one enjoy reading forum discussions about races. Reports good, discussions better. And here I will disqualify one answer before it's even given: It's all in English now. Horseshit. The trend was there on the old german forum too, the participation wasn't really better there either. Saw Bergwerk actually bring that argument once, it's in English, pah, I like attacking BW anyway, now he gives me another reason. You were the best example for "write my 93rd place in my Press center, but write nothing in the race thread" even in the old forum... Plus, use your brain, write in German in the english section if you can't write english. But anyway, here my question too.

- WHY are you not writing your comments, race reports, thoughts, in race threads? This question is for almost everybody actually, there are few positive exceptions, TEam FL will be mentioned since he is the master of race threads nowadays, some others ok too, but the big majority doesn't write. Anything. WHY?

Done.

Fuck you RSF Community.

Yep, not a nice end after asking for your answers? Well, it's deserved.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

team fl
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Re: The Zoo

Post by team fl » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:25 pm

Second that.



And fuck you too
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Robyklebt
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:37 pm

By insulting the whole community I insulted nobody directly, since I went around it. Everybody, incl. me actually, was insulted, but since the community is huge, the insult itself is minimal, especially since everybody will think they themselves are one of the few positive parts of the community.

You on the other hand insult me directly which is very rude!!!!! I'm shocked, disappointed and not sexually aroused at all. You are not nice, Mr FL from Lichtenstein!!!!!!
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

team fl
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Re: The Zoo

Post by team fl » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:46 pm

Good for me, that I am not from Lichtenstein. But ok, next time I tell your wife to do it.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

Luna
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Luna » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:58 pm

There is just no sense of the circus as a whole. There is no sense for the different races and their importance or unimprtance. Counting cat 1 races is up-to-date. Everybody on his own. No widespread interest in living through a race as a big happening. More important seems to be how to get to that f**king palmares entry without depending on a true course of action. Calculations are made. All very secret. If something is bespoken, then it's pre-determination of who has to be the clear favourite and who has to ride for what. It's the numbers that count, not the way of picturing a true race. Mountain skill of xx demands riding style of yy. There's just no passion. Only shifting numbers from a to b.
And after all, the emphasis on teams became more important than that of riders. A stage win for a disgnated helper via escape is just another win for team xy. No matter what it might mean for the imagined rider. He even had to spoil his whole day in the break-away only because the chance of adding another team win maybe was only at 25%, instead of 75%. So order the once-in-a-lifetime-escapee to stop pulling because he's not worth of finishing in front of the bunch in a group as long as he doesn't come back with a sure win. He's just an actor in order of the team. Riders are given no individual character, not from their own team mangers, but even less from the other teams or spectators.

Robyklebt
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Re: The Zoo

Post by Robyklebt » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:06 am

Ok, only 2 answers, zoos obviously not cool enough anymore, should have maybe made it a circus?

Anyway, since you 2 answered, I'm going to concentrate on you :D Next time then you won't answer either probably anymore....

FL: You agree. Good. And I repeat, you're a pleasure to ride with because you write something in the race thread. It's of course usually wrong unless you agree with me, but that's not the point. Just more fun if there is something written when you're in the race, if actually there is a disagreement more interesting.. if we all always agree no sense in writing. Stupid mistake by x! NO, IMO it was worth a try. Much more fun! Can't complain about your race thread participation, don't remember the awards, but suspect you participated. So, the newspaper. You started a section, Pressthreadnewsof the week, something like that. And stopped afer 4-5 weeks. Ok, that was only a copy and paste job, plus badly done since obvioulsy my press thread should be it every week.... but still, due to what IMO often is the boring content of many press threads, I don't read them all anymore. Often open in a tab. Close it without reading, so it doesn't show up as new anymore. MAybe I miss something interesting, ha, FL has it in the newspaper, cool. Or why not do something else? I by weekly or monthly or by monthly round discussion with Allagen? Liechtenland or Sauersteins analysis of RSF. 2 drunken fanatics going through what happened in the last 2 weeks/month/2months. With Allagens criticism of everything and everybody, the occasional "praise" (which usually is a slam on somebody too) combined with FLs more moderate views might actually make for interesting reading. No, not a show were Allagen is especially nasty, then it becomes over the top stupid. Just is usual jovial self, and you, talking about... anything

-Allagen: Stupid dumb ass nation commitee sucks. Fucking Buhmann gets the extra sausage! Izmir Uebel, pah, he just changed the name, and I heard he changed Roby names TWICE! Stupid Roby named Machoro Déwé before he realised it was a woman's name and then he wrote Leibundung and Buh corrected it to Leibundgut!
- FL: One was Roby, one the ape! But who cares?
- I do! Why was Sackhaar denied the German nationality?
-Boring Allagen, let's talk about something else. Conti, he won a PN stage, best sprinter in RSF now?
- He sucks, I mean he is good, but Roby always wants the cult rider not the wins, so he even lost against Dürr! 95 vs 90, how can you even lose? I mean I really like Roby and really like Conti, but you can't just lose against Dürr! That's why Roby is not a top manager! With a good manager Conti would win 40 races!
- Well Dürr still is a good rider, and Conti blabla... what about the D1 title? JPS or Alk?
- It's a joke, they ride in the morning, in the morning! Look at their groups, too easy, nothing against Alk and JPS, I respect them, they are ok managers, but bla blablabla. It's like Mangahn who doesn't ride when he doesn't have top riders!
- Don't see the connection?
-blablabla, I'm the best, bla bla

Something like that.... ok, maybe after 2 months would get boring to do, uthen stop. Or do something else. Büchels report on the state of Liechtensteins Cycling. Too many Germans/Austrian/Swiss want the FL passport at RSF, your usual list, the coming stars, the great. Anything.

But ok, you already are active in the race threads... so not really the first guy who "needs" to do something IMO.

Luna: Mmh, if I understood everything correctly you just expanded on my bolded sentence?More or less... So what you are saying is that since it's the way it is, you see no reason to entertain us with race reports, newspaper articles etc. OK, see that point too. Still, why not? Think for example you didn't vote for the rider of the year either.. why not? Too many just count the wins, not the "character", the "class" of the rider in question? Then why not vote in your way? Don't really know who could have gotten your vote, don't really know your opponents that well, since well... nothing interesting to read about them in the forum usually, nothing to read in the forum except the starters anymoe... we probably should rename the subforum in RSF startlists... but there has too be somebody... ah, the Bearclaws for example, IMO they rode with character, they concentrated on what counts, no Up the Misthaufen for them, at least in the few weeks that their manager made an afternoon visit... but not sure if he crossed your path a lot before.. And well, not really about who you vote for for me, just as long as you vote, according to your criteria of course. Hope you didn't otherwise no I look stupid.
Kraftsystemrevision! Include the distance!
Basics reform: Give blue a chance!
Don't punish bugusers. We all have to use bugs, since most of them are declared as "features"!

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