OLcycle

[Lizard]

The problem is like this: You see I was going from 500m for 2 sprints, then you think "Hey let´s go in his wheel". On the first time okay, I let it happen, good spectation by you. But I´m not gonna do it like you want all time (because I bet you thought I´ll do it again). I´m just disappointed since you had Arguello and should be experienced in sprints, don´t abuse others because they´ll remember, especially sprinters. And if I didn´t say a word and would´ve done the same you´d stay in my wheel again. If it´s one time you on me, other time me on you next time on someone else etc. it´s okay..

[olmania]

In my sprint, I've 2 (somtimes 3) differents tactics. Each guy who knows me a bit, knows those tactics. So for him, taking my wheel is a good solution sometimes, and sometimes no. With Shatyf and Arguello I offered a lot victories to the teams who are in wheel, but that's not a problem (ok, I was sometimes a bit frustrated), because I always had a sprinter in my team to do money on the easy races. So, doing the 3-5th place and offer the 1-3 place to an other one (maybe 1/3 of my sprints) that's not a big deal for all the money I won. Because If I try to do the tactics 50m, I'll do 10x 5-15place for maybe one victory, I'm not always excellent for this game. So I prefer to do a train (not always, just sometimes). But this train was not discret, so, after some victories ou good trains, I had groupies ! Ok, some teams were in my wheel, "automatic-Ol's-Wheel" for the MS. Some teams were maybe 1/2 time in my wheel, others 100% (I noted that during the last 14months with Shatyf and Urguello). I can be angry and frustrated, but they've the right to do that, and in my wheel is good, his wheel is good (mine), he can win. So I understand them to take my wheel, because it was a good % of good wheel. I can say them "stop that" but nothing force them to do that. It's the game.
So, to change that, I've to do a % a shit sprints at 50m with a 50m (sometimes an other with a bit of luck) to do a 16th and the three guys in my wheel :14-19-21 !

So please, don't cry for two or three times in your wheel. What's more I wasn't happy about your comportement in the group, so I took your always a bit to kill your sprint (I had Cieza for my sprint).
I'm sorry but that's the game ("c'est de bonne guerre" in french, I've not the translation), and it change nothing about that I appriate you in the forum and in the races.

ps : sorry for my english, i'm not in form today ^^

[Lizard]

My complaint was not against you personally aswell of course, I don´t think this is to be discussed. But there you see it, you suffer those in-wheel-stayers over many races aswell, and then you do the same? I mean, I know those players, and they don´t deserve respect as gamers I think. I was always for engaging people to cooperate for sprints and I didn´t abuse this, so I was 99% in different wheels, maybe once the same wheel in two races, but not more. And secondly, when you ride in the group you get a better position than in the end you got (if your argument is that my behaviour in the group was not okay AND you expected me to stay in your wheel with Enkeevelaert, put 1+1 and you see that the chance to be top 10 in the sprint is minimal). I understand, when you say you didn´t like my group action but what can I do? I was sure that the french newbie with one race was in my wheel so can I offer my chances completely? I already rode one hill alone and many many kms in higher pace (either blue and red) when everyone needed 10km or so to make his pace go equal, so I lose a huge amount of energy already and have no comparison by the newbie... cool, what would you do? I think it is reasonable. So either way my group behaviour is no reason for staying in my wheel, it´s just expectation for me to do a train myself from 500m, after you already took my wheel last time. You could´ve taken any other, we go equal 1:1 and the next few races I take any other wheel because you don´t abuse.

[olmania]

so I was 99% in different wheels, maybe once the same wheel in two races, but not more.

Me too. I think today is an excetional situtation.

when you say you didn´t like my group action but what can I do?

You're the only classic guy, strange. IF that wasn't you or an other good and recongnize manager, hard to believe in the "I won't attack, I prefer the sprint" with 6' at 45kms ... But you're lucky the others managers were cool, and everybody said ok (I remembered a lot of others groups where that was not the case ^^). So, the big danger to kill the group is to have a classic rider and everywhere around him flat riders, that's most dangerous than my 10kms without tempo (I cant attack, and i've no chance in the sprint). What's more on the chat, you was really excited, and always giving advices (orders), you was the captain of thr group (I do that sometimes when I think that I've good chances to win) so, ok (but we've to try to being more cool in these situations ^^). But after you said that you wasn't the only favo and you wanted a big work from everybody (but 2x 44sprint = no chances), that was time for tactics 30kms near the end for us ^^ If I believed in the group victory (with 1'+ at 50kms) I think I played tactic, really. And you, with your rider you'll have the place 2 easily ... I burned my guy for the group because no TDF for him tomorrow ...

what would you do?

Youre tactic wasn't to want a sprint, but to try an attack. But if you didn't said "I want a sprint" the group = dead. So, It was hard to keep your chances in a sprint with your special skills. For a better group : similar guys, similar skills.
That's hard when one guy is alone in his skills, because everybody is afraid about him (no work for him), and when he wants to be cool and stay with the other, he's fucked ^^
The place of Mbecki was not easy in the group, and your mistake was maybe to put him in the group.
In the last hill, I asked you do it alone because you wanted to reach the line in front. Of course doing it alone = a loss of energy = a loss of chaces in the group. Always the same problem, a guy with differents skills in a group is always the black cat !

[Lizard]

When I say I will not attack and the others work with me I keep my word, everything else would be not fair. So I did today. And even when I have 45 sprinters in a group I want to push the others to ride and cooperate. I think experienced managers should always be like this (at least in terms of fairness). Maybe was wrong to put Mbeki in the group, but we had two tries to get a breakaway, and you´ve seen in the first try that I´ll go for Mbeki, then your rider is in my wheel on the attack - maybe you put another rider in his wheel : D

But okay, I´m too happy right now because the Netherlands kicked Brasils ass, so for me it´s okay, I was just being honest and telling what I think about it.

[olmania]

pff, I hate VanBommel

[BMG-Allstars]

pff, I hate VanBommel

Is there anyone outside NL who doesn't? That dude has written "You have to hate me" on the forehead.

BTW, nice to see you at the tour, but without captain??

[olmania]

pff, I hate VanBommel

Is there anyone outside NL who doesn't? That dude has written "You have to hate me" on the forehead.

BTW, nice to see you at the tour, but without captain??

Yes, without captain, because I'm not sure to be here all the Tour
If I find a job or a "stage", I think I won't ride and reach the Champs Elysées
So, I'll start, try on some stages, and we'll see.
But I can't take the risk with a 500k team

[NoPikouze]

I love van bommel, he's a great player

[olmania]

Holidays for me !
Div 2 for September ... without Vuelta (not the time for that) ...

A+

[Philéas]

BRAVO pour la Wallone : well done Olmania!

[olmania]

BRAVO pour la Wallone : well done Olmania!

Well done ! Digging my topic was not easy