Sitting/Offline Rules

[Gipfelstuermer]

The current Sitting Rules:

Sitting Rules
- Sitting is only permitted in stage races (prohibited for one-day races).
- Never share your password with any other team.

Question:

Should we limit Sitting in stage races?
For me, being sitted each and every stage of a stage race is at least as unfair as Sitting in a one-day race. Consequently, we should either remove the first rule, or limit Sitting in stage races. My suggestion is to only allow Sitting if the team manager is online at least one stage himself. A little more stricter would be to give a percentage, e.g. Sitting is only allowed if the team manger is online at least 20% (or 30% or 50%) of the stages. For example, if you are online 1 stage in a 5-stages tour, it's enough. But in a Grand Tours, you need to be online at least 4 stages, etc... right percentage to be calibrated (including rounding up or down).


This was my main concern, but whilst I am at it, more ideas

Should we make the password rule more precise?
We could make it more clear and say: "It is prohibited to share your password with another team. Any case of password sharing will be treated like a multi account case." Why so strict? We have the Sitting tool now, and one of the reasons is to make it easier to identify multi accounts.

Should we re-think the offline rules?

What if I cannot be online for a race?
In one-day-races, you cannot be offline for more than 60% of the race. For example, if you miss 120 consecutive km in a 200km race, your riders will abandon.

In stage races (tours), you can be offline for whole stages, but there is a limit. If you miss more than 60% of the race in more than 60% of the stages, your riders will abandon.

For one day races the 60% offline limit seems mostly fine to me, but for stage races, I am not sure if it is a balanced rule. I understand the rule is you can be offline max. 60% of the stages. I think excluding ITT/TTT. And I think being offline again means 60% of the race? Not 100% sure about the exact rule actually. I haven't seen this exact snippet of code. But if there are suggestions, it would fit into this discussion, too.

[lennylenny]

Should we re-think the offline rules?

What if I cannot be online for a race?
In one-day-races, you cannot be offline for more than 60% of the race. For example, if you miss 120 consecutive km in a 200km race, your riders will abandon.

In stage races (tours), you can be offline for whole stages, but there is a limit. If you miss more than 60% of the race in more than 60% of the stages, your riders will abandon.

For one day races the 60% offline limit seems mostly fine to me, but for stage races, I am not sure if it is a balanced rule. I understand the rule is you can be offline max. 60% of the stages. I think excluding ITT/TTT. And I think being offline again means 60% of the race? Not 100% sure about the exact rule actually. I haven't seen this exact snippet of code. But if there are suggestions, it would fit into this discussion, too.

this is how i think it works and what i use to correctly predict at what stage someone will be kicked out:

TTs always count as online
other stages count as offline if a team is offline for a 60% section of the race
if 60% of stages of a race are flagged as offline, the team is kicked at that very moment

this makes it actually hard to be kicked from shorter stage races that include a TT

[Schnuggeritos]

Should we limit Sitting in stage races?

For me, the answer to that is a definite yes. I agree with you: in the end it's like the one-day races. For me a sitter is should there to support you and should not ride YOUR tour. The originial Manager should be online about 20% of the stages (no sitter logged into the race on those days) which will be rounded up to an Integer.

Should we make the password rule more precise?

Yes. I like your suggestion but would change the last part a bit.
"It is prohibited to share your password with another team. Any case of password sharing will be penalised with severe consequences"

Should we re-think the offline rules?

Yes again. I'm fine with the one-day races, too. For stages I'd like to see changes, too.
1. switch from 60% per stage to 60% total. e.g. Tour a total 1000 km. As soon as you are > 600 offline you are out.
2. add ITT and TTT to the check.
2.1. If point 1 becomes future "baseline": no additional rules
2.2. If it stays as is: only ITT and TTT >= 20 km

Lets see if this was understandable

[flockmastoR]

1) Being sitted for 100% of the stages is clearly against the intention of the "It is forbidden to be sitted in 1 day races." and IMO should also be regarded to being punished AT THE MOMENT. What is this rule about: Don't let others ride your races, earn you money, share your account when you are not able to do it yourself. When a team registered to a stage race, never logs into it's account him/herself during the stage race and a sitter is doing all the stages, I think it is even worse than doing 1 one day race. Sitting is a great tool for overcoming limited days where you cannot take control yourself. I have done stage races myself where my "being sitted" ratio was too high for my taste. I also had other teams were the one sitter did like 50% of all the stages. There are also other options like offsettings that are way underused (maybe at the moment not good enough).

2) Why is the ITT/TTT threated differently? Is there a good reason for it. I think it is because at short ITT you don't need to be online at all to do proper settings (everybody riding 100%). But why exclude it from the being online calculation? If you struggle being online enough you can just log into your account in the middle of the ITT to save you that 1 day. It is easy enough to stay in a stage race.

3) I don't mind to stricten the offline rule (we can), but maybe add the stages completely done by a sitter to the days being offline. Meaning that your team just stays in the tour when the original team manager is online (60% stage rule) at least for 40% of the stages.

4) Should we make the password rule more precise? YES, just forbid to share the password.

[American Cycling Club]

Should we re-think the offline rules?

What if I cannot be online for a race?
In one-day-races, you cannot be offline for more than 60% of the race. For example, if you miss 120 consecutive km in a 200km race, your riders will abandon.

In stage races (tours), you can be offline for whole stages, but there is a limit. If you miss more than 60% of the race in more than 60% of the stages, your riders will abandon.

For one day races the 60% offline limit seems mostly fine to me, but for stage races, I am not sure if it is a balanced rule. I understand the rule is you can be offline max. 60% of the stages. I think excluding ITT/TTT. And I think being offline again means 60% of the race? Not 100% sure about the exact rule actually. I haven't seen this exact snippet of code. But if there are suggestions, it would fit into this discussion, too.

this is how i think it works and what i use to correctly predict at what stage someone will be kicked out:

TTs always count as online
other stages count as offline if a team is offline for a 60% section of the race
if 60% of stages of a race are flagged as offline, the team is kicked at that very moment

this makes it actually hard to be kicked from shorter stage races that include a TT

That explains why my riders didn't abandon yesterday because I will only be there today and tommorrow