AGF-RFM Arrangements Le Tour 2023

[Schartner Bombe]

Not the first time in this morning editon of the tour that it looks as if rfm and agf would agree, and then agf rides for rfm and not for his own team.
But today in the sprint it was obvious to me and others, that it is like this.
All you really need to do is watch the sprint.
doesn't look like it all happens that randomly anymore ... agf sprints, rfm rider falls back at just the right time ...

[lennylenny]

Pretty suspicious that there are multiple threads about unrealistic arrangements including agf/idefix with him helping other teams mostly

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9431
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5488

Also the bugabusing thread that is on re-trial shows blatant disregard for the rules

[flockmastoR]

Spectators Chat

RideforMoney(16:33): And ofc not focusing on other moves from other teams, but well double standards. RSF in a nutshell
RideforMoney(16:32): Ask him if he wants to gift to me or not, cannot answer for him but well as usual the.germans who suck my ass as always, not surprising
Rhodan Underdogs(13:04): in combination with a sprint trick, it is of course even smarter.
free team(12:56): 1) yeah because he already knows that you will tricksprint and he prefers p2 while gifting you the easy win 2) has nothing to do with ides gift either
Rhodan Underdogs(12:54): but no, the french don't cheat each other to victory
Rhodan Underdogs(12:53): Ide pulls already from 200m onwards the stronger rfm to victory - lol
RideforMoney(12:12): Easy : 1) if he launches late, sprinters can coming back , 2) as i said even during the chat , 85 form so 73 sp and will not bring top sprinter to win with almost no job (except joy)
free team(12:08): yeah and obviously ide just happens to pull your 66sp to an easy win at the same time as you tricksprint with your 75sp. ofc
RideforMoney(11:58): He = idefix*
RideforMoney(11:57): Trekken same for a couple of days. Now after if you consider that he is riding for me, believe it lol
RideforMoney(11:56): But btw with schartner crying and riding for furpach, that's funny
RideforMoney(11:55): Well quite easy : my 75 sprint has 85 form and had planned to trick against a 81-82
Schartner Bombe(10:51): I know nothing will happen, but let's discuss this .-)
Schartner Bombe(10:47): yes he is. So did a post in fairplay. not first time in this tour, but today everybody can see it.
Black-Star(10:46): yes
Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team(10:39): AGF = Idefix?
Schartner Bombe(10:38): we can try it in fairplay, but I bet nothing will happen to them.
Schartner Bombe(10:37): you can read in forum what Idefix does normally - he rides for his friend
Black-Star(10:35): never rode with both of them before prior to this tour, and a few other sprints were a little bit unusually but not as obvious as todays sprint, so don't know if that is normal for them
Schartner Bombe(10:31): not only in this stage
Team Dagestan(10:28): stage wins in a GT are worth more than a small fine, but still, it should be a signal and they could make a conditional punishment where if it happens again the fines get larger each time
CircleCycle(10:26): I'd try
Team Dagestan(10:26): shouldn't this be a FPC case? it can happen once "coincidentally" but if it happens more often it is very unfair/unsporting/cheating...
Schartner Bombe(10:25): but FPC will do nothing again
free team(10:24): yap, normal ide-rfm action
Schartner Bombe(10:24): they talked together - easy to see
Schartner Bombe(10:23): this needs a fairplay thread - but nobody is interested in - so ...
Black-Star(10:18): They had a few sprints in similar fashion in this tour, maybe without the tricksprint but where 1 was pulling the other from like 250 with his last rider
Schartner Bombe(10:16): nothing new in this tour
Schartner Bombe(10:16): look in their fairplay
Team Dagestan(10:14): i dont know them well enough, but good to know for the future
CircleCycle(10:14): its normal for them
Team Dagestan(10:13): this smells like an unrealistic arrangement if you ask me...
CircleCycle(10:12): lol

Race Chat

Schnuggeritos(10:22): Gw to all stage and jersey winner
Black-Star(10:19): mhm got 2,1M in the last 23 days thats nice
Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team(10:17): Thanks. Winning green without a win is not what I expected
Black-Star(10:15): gw chem for green
AGF (Asso du Ghetto FR)(10:14): gw rfm
Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team(10:14): GW all jerseys
Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team(10:14): GW rfm
Schartner Bombe(10:13): hope I dont have to ride a tour with them
Schartner Bombe(10:13): sollte man eigentlich ins fairplay geben - aber wurscht
AGF (Asso du Ghetto FR)(10:12): gw all winners
Schartner Bombe(10:12): würdiger
Schartner Bombe(10:12): das ist ein würdifer ablschluss für die french guys
RideforMoney(10:12): 85 forme with Laurent, will not bring the win for guys behind sry
Schartner Bombe(10:11): thx rfm
JoyRide(10:11): oh boy
Trekken Racing(10:11): gw rfm for stage i think

Sprint indeed looked suspicious with RideforMoney unfollowing his own rider the moment AGF went with his last sprinter (he went with the 65 at 200m against Camoranesi with 66 in his wheel and at the time of the launch another 75 sprinter of R4M and Brackhammer on that rider). Chat imputed that similar behaviour already happened during earlier stages. Can someone give more information about that?

[Gipfelstuermer]

FPC is reviewing this case.

Important for case opener(s): Please give as many details as possible. I was able to watch the sprint now but not everyone in FPC is online 24/7 so they need a precise description and precise reasoning why something would be an unrealistic arrangement. Otherwise it will be difficult to judge .

[kunske]

Gipfel,

I was also in this tour. So we can discuss in fpc if you want.

[Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team]

FPC is reviewing this case.

Important for case opener(s): Please give as many details as possible. I was able to watch the sprint now but not everyone in FPC is online 24/7 so they need a precise description and precise reasoning why something would be an unrealistic arrangement. Otherwise it will be difficult to judge .

Not too good in describing stuff, but in terms of reason: RfM brought a very expensive team (more than 700k) on his comeback tour. He was a bit frustrated the stages before because he didn't win any of the jerseys. Not sure how many stages he won as well. He worked a lot on the last stage (also on others before) to secure a win and didn't want to pull Brackhammer to the win (which he would done without the tricksprint). So all in all, it might be frustration about the amount of work and the situation in all. But I don't know his situation and didn't ride a lot of races with him at all.

[Schartner Bombe]

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RFM drops his rider and at the same time AGF goes to Furpy's back wheel.

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[Schartner Bombe]

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[Schartner Bombe]

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RFM drops his rider(Guidala) and at the same time the AGF rider sprints from 200m

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[Schartner Bombe]

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Summary:
450m: RFM drops his rider and the same time AGF goes to Furpy's back wheel.
200m: RFM drops his rider(Guidala) and at the same time AGF rider sprints from 200m

[Schartner Bombe]

it was just as suspicious in stage 11 - when AGF went to blue pace from the start (first 15km to the hill) and went off pace right there where RFM siebed? It was still about the green jersey for RFM - sieb didnt work for green because also selfsieb Guidala ... than 4 AGF's and Guidala in the group behind - brackhammer opponent for green in frontgroup - AGF was rding hard to come back (maybe because of Guidala) ...
But that was just suspicious and wouldn't have a chance in the FPC.

[Schartner Bombe]

We had another sprint where AGF did the train - but dont remember which one.
Maybe someone else remembers.
But that was also just suspicious and wouldn't have had a chance in the FPC - thats why I didnt post that.
Revelation is the final stage in the sprint.

[Schartner Bombe]

Can we bring this to an end?

[team fl]

Can we bring this to an end?

As soon as there is something to report, the FPC will. Currently, the investigation is still going on. Thanks for your patience.

[Gipfelstuermer]

FPC DECISION: 10‘000 fine (warning) for both players, no ban.

This is the second time, that AGF has been involved in allegations regarding unrealistic arrangements (discharged first time). For RfM, it is the first time. After thorough discussion both among FPC members and with the involved teams, as well as the input in the forum, the FPC cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that AGF and RfM did an illegal arrangement in this case. Nevertheless, the FPC understands that this behavior might be seen as suspicious due to their independent actions at 450m and at 200m which were both highly favorable but usually unlikely for them to happen in that exact combination. Both players explained their actions in a plausible way, but not all doubts could be resolved. Therefore, both players will get a warning in the form of a symbolical fine.

The FPC firmly believes, that there should be no unrealistic agreements or behavior that impacts the outcome of a race dramatically. Hence, the FPC encourages players to keep reporting such cases if they have a well-founded suspicion. At the same time, we insist that a suspicion can only be based on the behavior and not on the nationality of the players.

[Schartner Bombe]

FPC DECISION: 10‘000 fine (warning) for both players, no ban.

This is the second time, that AGF has been involved in allegations regarding unrealistic arrangements (discharged first time). For RfM, it is the first time. After thorough discussion both among FPC members and with the involved teams, as well as the input in the forum, the FPC cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that AGF and RfM did an illegal arrangement in this case. Nevertheless, the FPC understands that this behavior might be seen as suspicious due to their independent actions at 450m and at 200m which were both highly favorable but usually unlikely for them to happen in that exact combination. Both players explained their actions in a plausible way, but not all doubts could be resolved. Therefore, both players will get a warning in the form of a symbolical fine.

The FPC firmly believes, that there should be no unrealistic agreements or behavior that impacts the outcome of a race dramatically. Hence, the FPC encourages players to keep reporting such cases if they have a well-founded suspicion. At the same time, we insist that a suspicion can only be based on the behavior and not on the nationality of the players.

Salomon is calling.
A sheynem dank

[Schartner Bombe]

FPC DECISION: 10‘000 fine (warning) for both players, no ban.

This is the second time, that AGF has been involved in allegations regarding unrealistic arrangements (discharged first time). For RfM, it is the first time. After thorough discussion both among FPC members and with the involved teams, as well as the input in the forum, the FPC cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that AGF and RfM did an illegal arrangement in this case. Nevertheless, the FPC understands that this behavior might be seen as suspicious due to their independent actions at 450m and at 200m which were both highly favorable but usually unlikely for them to happen in that exact combination. Both players explained their actions in a plausible way, but not all doubts could be resolved. Therefore, both players will get a warning in the form of a symbolical fine.

The FPC firmly believes, that there should be no unrealistic agreements or behavior that impacts the outcome of a race dramatically. Hence, the FPC encourages players to keep reporting such cases if they have a well-founded suspicion. At the same time, we insist that a suspicion can only be based on the behavior and not on the nationality of the players.

what I saw first time today was, that AGF(Idefix) had some warnings before?
2017-09-20, 2019-01-16, 2021-04-13(only what we can see in react) and this year after the tour.
It looks like it doesnt matter how many fines or warnings one team gets? Or the FPC didnt know about the other 3 warnings before?

[Gipfelstuermer]

what I saw first time today was, that AGF(Idefix) had some warnings before?
2017-09-20, 2019-01-16, 2021-04-13(only what we can see in react) and this year after the tour.
It looks like it doesnt matter how many fines or warnings one team gets? Or the FPC didnt know about the other 3 warnings before?

The FPC knows because they can look it up in React, but it just says 'Warning' so you would have to search for and read through the old threads to understand what the 'Warning' actually was about.

[Schartner Bombe]

what I saw first time today was, that AGF(Idefix) had some warnings before?
2017-09-20, 2019-01-16, 2021-04-13(only what we can see in react) and this year after the tour.
It looks like it doesnt matter how many fines or warnings one team gets? Or the FPC didnt know about the other 3 warnings before?

The FPC knows because they can look it up in React, but it just says 'Warning' so you would have to search for and read through the old threads to understand what the 'Warning' actually was about.

ok. than why isn't it written in the fairplay stats from now on? dont see anything about this thread in the fairplay stats? easy to do - if everybody can read why is the warning. 3 warnings before and than 10.000 fine is a bad joke. everybody can do the same now, who has enough money.
there is also something about bug abusing, the threads lenny linked here ...

[Gipfelstuermer]

ok. than why isn't it written in the fairplay stats from now on? dont see anything about this thread in the fairplay stats? easy to do

If it's that easy, send the code, please. I will upload it. No, seriously, admins are trying their best to improve the game and in fact FPC is my #1 priority which I am working on at the moment. Many more features needed than just this one small feature that you suggest, but yes, this feature will come.

3 warnings before and than 10.000 fine is a bad joke. everybody can do the same now, who has enough money.

Have you read the decision at all?

The old warnings were also accompanied by fines in Idefix cases before and none of the warnings was for unrealistic arrangements.

there is also something about bug abusing, the threads lenny linked here ...

Yes he got fined for that, and a warning, and you can also read the FPC decision there in the thread...

[Schartner Bombe]

ok. than why isn't it written in the fairplay stats from now on? dont see anything about this thread in the fairplay stats? easy to do

If it's that easy, send the code, please. I will upload it. No, seriously, admins are trying their best to improve the game and in fact FPC is my #1 priority which I am working on at the moment. Many more features needed than just this one small feature that you suggest, but yes, this feature will come.

3 warnings before and than 10.000 fine is a bad joke. everybody can do the same now, who has enough money.

Have you read the decision at all?

The old warnings were also accompanied by fines in Idefix cases before and none of the warnings was for unrealistic arrangements.

there is also something about bug abusing, the threads lenny linked here ...

Yes he got fined for that, and a warning, and you can also read the FPC decision there in the thread...

Ok, thanks for the answers, I will let it be good, it's pointless.

[Schartner Bombe]

ok. than why isn't it written in the fairplay stats from now on? dont see anything about this thread in the fairplay stats? easy to do

If it's that easy, send the code, please. I will upload it. No, seriously, admins are trying their best to improve the game and in fact FPC is my #1 priority which I am working on at the moment. Many more features needed than just this one small feature that you suggest, but yes, this feature will come.

3 warnings before and than 10.000 fine is a bad joke. everybody can do the same now, who has enough money.

Have you read the decision at all?

The old warnings were also accompanied by fines in Idefix cases before and none of the warnings was for unrealistic arrangements.

there is also something about bug abusing, the threads lenny linked here ...

Yes he got fined for that, and a warning, and you can also read the FPC decision there in the thread...

and will tell you why your answers are pointless. one team with a teamattack gets 100.000 fine or something?
with this 9+9 guys train sprint they earned much more money, or not? but FPC gave a hfine 10.000 each? they earned much more money through this sprint? what would you want to say FPC? you are not able to edit this? is luquees always the excuse? or do you never want to take a stand?
my opinion, and I now some guys - who quit this game because of this themes. I think you all never want to take a stand! so do a real FPC with one admin.

... and then as an admin to act like a politician, namely "you tell me the code" is the last-class excuse. only because you are member of admin gip.
problem, there are no clear rules. a game only works with clear rules. otherwise it wouldn't be a game.

[Hansa]

and will tell you why your answers are pointless. one team with a teamattack gets 100.000 fine or something?
with this 9+9 guys train sprint they earned much more money, or not? but FPC gave a hfine 10.000 each? they earned much more money through this sprint? what would you want to say FPC? you are not able to edit this? is luquees always the excuse? or do you never want to take a stand?
my opinion, and I now some guys - who quit this game because of this themes. I think you all never want to take a stand! so do a real FPC with one admin.

Maybe you should read the decision?

They did not get a fine they got a WARNING

FPC DECISION: 10‘000 fine (warning) for both players, no ban.

After thorough discussion both among FPC members and with the involved teams, as well as the input in the forum, the FPC cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that AGF and RfM did an illegal arrangement in this case. Nevertheless, the FPC understands that this behavior might be seen as suspicious due to their independent actions at 450m and at 200m which were both highly favorable but usually unlikely for them to happen in that exact combination. Both players explained their actions in a plausible way, but not all doubts could be resolved. Therefore, both players will get a warning in the form of a symbolical fine.

The warning notes that even so the action was explained it sill remains some suspicion.

And for Future similar cases that Warning will play a role in the decision.

All in all they were found not guilty in this case therefor they didnt get a (big) fine just a warning.

[Schartner Bombe]

and will tell you why your answers are pointless. one team with a teamattack gets 100.000 fine or something?
with this 9+9 guys train sprint they earned much more money, or not? but FPC gave a hfine 10.000 each? they earned much more money through this sprint? what would you want to say FPC? you are not able to edit this? is luquees always the excuse? or do you never want to take a stand?
my opinion, and I now some guys - who quit this game because of this themes. I think you all never want to take a stand! so do a real FPC with one admin.

Maybe you should read the decision?

They did not get a fine they got a WARNING

FPC DECISION: 10‘000 fine (warning) for both players, no ban.

After thorough discussion both among FPC members and with the involved teams, as well as the input in the forum, the FPC cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that AGF and RfM did an illegal arrangement in this case. Nevertheless, the FPC understands that this behavior might be seen as suspicious due to their independent actions at 450m and at 200m which were both highly favorable but usually unlikely for them to happen in that exact combination. Both players explained their actions in a plausible way, but not all doubts could be resolved. Therefore, both players will get a warning in the form of a symbolical fine.

The warning notes that even so the action was explained it sill remains some suspicion.

And for Future similar cases that Warning will play a role in the decision.

and will tell you why your answers are pointless. one team with a teamattack gets 100.000 fine or something?
with this 9+9 guys train sprint they earned much more money, or not? but FPC gave a hfine 10.000 each? they earned much more money through this sprint? what would you want to say FPC? you are not able to edit this? is luquees always the excuse? or do you never want to take a stand?
my opinion, and I now some guys - who quit this game because of this themes. I think you all never want to take a stand! so do a real FPC with one admin.

... and then as an admin to act like a politician, namely "you tell me the code" is the last-class excuse. only because you are member of admin gip.
problem, there are no clear rules. a game only works with clear rules. otherwise it wouldn't be a game.

[Schartner Bombe]

I mean what do you want to do here, the inner circle of rfm? or something with facts?