fake-registration and 1sec before-registration

[Schartner Bombe]

Hello girls and boys,

today at the tour at 14.00 I was riding the stage. Unfortunately, it was so boring (CC was the big Favo for stage and donkey with his full pants because of GC was doing tempo with others who had a sprinter for place five, so that there was no chance to do anything for a win ) ) that I soon felt asleep.
When I woke up I had an idea that I don't want to keep to myself:
As with the current tour, there is far too often fake-registration or last-second registration, which too often influences team formation.

idea:
team-registration half an hour before tour
team-formation till 15min before tour

would be fairplay - what do you boys and girls think about?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ok, so you go with your 81 sprinter on 64-76-87 train instead of 74-80-89 train, but complain about boring race?

Anyway, back to topic, there are really several possible solutions.

1.) Your solution, definitely an O.K. solution, if team formation can be done for 15min longer, but can already be done before. Problem: it would be a small disadvantage for those, who cannot be online in this 15min period vs. those who can be online.
2.) Show a team in the participant list if and only if they have all riders inscribed, so that no fake registration appears. Problem: People could still go out in the last second before the start.
3.) Don't show any participants at all before it starts, so that fake registration cannot irritate anybody. Problem: You don't know how many plan to participate, so you cannot avoid the too large / too small groups.
4.) Make a fair profit distribution independent from nr. of teams inscribed, so that nr. of teams becomes irrelevant and so fake registrations shouldn't influence others who worry about money.
5.) Ride for fun instead of ride for money.

Well, solution 4.) my favorite solution, but solution 5.) is more likely to be implemented in the game. Solutions 1.), 2.) or 3.) would be improvements perhaps, but not 100% sure and same as 4.) small likelihood that they are implemented by luques.

[Schartner Bombe]

ok, I see a lot of problems and solutions - thx for comment Gipfel.
Probably all that doesn't matter, it was just an idea of mine

[Mangahn]

I think you´ve got a good and complete idea here. The small problem, that offliner got a disadvantage at a onlinegame might be small.

Good idea, good solution.

[Joy]

HI

The fact is that this is an online browser game so everyone's obligation is to be online . I understand that it is just a game and real life counts more, but this should not give anyone the right to take advantage of the fact that it cannot be online (that's why we have starting time 4 or 5 times/day same race ..isn't it? )

In fact, the solution is simple and easy to implement if there is goodwill
Once registered in the race you cannot retire at least one hour before the race (ex: race starts at 10h so at 9:00:01 you cannot retire from race). If you could not set your starting list (let's say 5 min before starting time)you will receive an automatic team (either with your cyclists or with bot cyclists)

[RS Coesitz]

I don´t see the positive effect:

- teams can still fake-inscribe
- it is an advantage for teams who will try to profit of the work of other teams
- it makes it more complicated
- it makes the actual time you have to invest daily (which is quite long for some teams) about 30mins longer - I often plan my races the way, that I come home 10 minutes before the race starts, so right in time

So regarding to Gips solutions: 2 & 5 would be good.

[Schartner Bombe]

Yes you come home 10min before and registrate - that you have to do now too? what is so complicated?
and where do you need more time? you registrar like now, but after registration you see the other registrated teams and do you team formation.

thats more fair than a penalty or something else.

[RS Coesitz]

Yes you come home 10min before and registrate - that you have to do now too? what is so complicated?
and where do you need more time? you registrar like now, but after registration you see the other registrated teams and do you team formation.

thats more fair than a penalty or something else.

When a race is at 14h and I work until 13h, I register in the morning, yes. And if I don´t want to have a disadvantage, I need to plan to be there earlier.

Anyway. It does not change the first point I mentioned: nothing really changes with this idea, it´s implication in the game should have no priority and in my eyes it makes the inscription unneccisarily complicated. And teams can still registrate and go out. Like I said: it´s an advantage for teams who want to profit of others. So I don´t like it.

[Schartner Bombe]

look Coe,
yes but exactly what you are describing is unfair. You sign up, everyone else thinks you are part of it and then you are not part of the 7 or longer day tour.
isn't it fair to you now?
or for the 5 teams that are there and believe you are riding with your team?

Sorry Coe, but what you are saying has no logic for fairplay. it sounds like you where the only one in universe ,-)))

[Schartner Bombe]

But forget about it, as I said only an idea.
Probably all that doesn't matter.

[RS Coesitz]

look Coe,
yes but exactly what you are describing is unfair. You sign up, everyone else thinks you are part of it and then you are not part of the 7 or longer day tour.
isn't it fair to you now?
or for the 5 teams that are there and believe you are riding with your team?

Sorry Coe, but what you are saying has no logic for fairplay. it sounds like you where the only one in universe ,-)))

What exactly is unfair when I register in the morning and ride the race in the afternoon?

And I don´t see how your first post (CC and Donkey too strong, riding another way you expect it, for you too boring) is affected by teams who are not there.

And I don´t understand why you are so harsh. I just say that I don´t see the problem and if it is one for some teams, I prefer the solution 2 of Gip. This does not solve it, yours does not solve it too, but this makes it harder to inscribe without riding and you don´t make the inscription more complex.
Btw: I would have taken the 14h-tour too, but went to the 22h-tour because of the teams participating. If I would have known, that this is the 14h-field, I would have taken it.

[Schartner Bombe]

HI

The fact is that this is an online browser game so everyone's obligation is to be online . I understand that it is just a game and real life counts more, but this should not give anyone the right to take advantage of the fact that it cannot be online (that's why we have starting time 4 or 5 times/day same race ..isn't it? )

In fact, the solution is simple and easy to implement if there is goodwill
Once registered in the race you cannot retire at least one hour before the race (ex: race starts at 10h so at 9:00:01 you cannot retire from race). If you could not set your starting list (let's say 5 min before starting time)you will receive an automatic team (either with your cyclists or with bot cyclists)

sorry joy - didn't see your comment before - thx, yes its that what I meant

[Schartner Bombe]

look Coe,
yes but exactly what you are describing is unfair. You sign up, everyone else thinks you are part of it and then you are not part of the 7 or longer day tour.
isn't it fair to you now?
or for the 5 teams that are there and believe you are riding with your team?

Sorry Coe, but what you are saying has no logic for fairplay. it sounds like you where the only one in universe ,-)))

What exactly is unfair when I register in the morning and ride the race in the afternoon?

And I don´t see how your first post (CC and Donkey too strong, riding another way you expect it, for you too boring) is affected by teams who are not there.

And I don´t understand why you are so harsh. I just say that I don´t see the problem and if it is one for some teams, I prefer the solution 2 of Gip. This does not solve it, yours does not solve it too, but this makes it harder to inscribe without riding and you don´t make the inscription more complex.
Btw: I would have taken the 14h-tour too, but went to the 22h-tour because of the teams participating. If I would have known, that this is the 14h-field, I would have taken it.

did't want to be harsch, sorry. That all hasn't to do with CC or Donkey, that was only an ironic joke.
its also not the problem if you are in the tour and registered 4 days before - because than its no fake inscription.
and once again the idea:
- you inscribe like now (for days, 1 sec before deadline, which is 1/2h)
- only thing which changes is now, fake teams are gone, and now you can do your team-formation.

so the idea - team-formation later
eisern union

[Joy]

What exactly is unfair when I register in the morning and ride the race in the afternoon?
Practicaly imposible register in morning and ride in afternoon ..if you are trully inscribed in morning you can ride only in morning field...this is the discussion

Why do you even register if you cannot be online and do not ride?
It is exaclty unfair because every other manager has to adapt theyr line up acording to teams inscribed,so to prevent fake registration just to make fun of others or just to profit by the field (we know there are team''running away'' from others and just pick the ''easy fields'') we need solution to be fair to each others.

We are supposed to be grown ups and responsible for our actions, so once you click the inscribe button you are responsible for that action

[RS Coesitz]

What exactly is unfair when I register in the morning and ride the race in the afternoon?
Practicaly imposible register in morning and ride in afternoon ..if you are trully inscribed in morning you can ride only in morning field...this is the discussion

Why do you even register if you cannot be online and do not ride?
It is exaclty unfair because every other manager has to adapt theyr line up acording to teams inscribed,so to prevent fake registration just to make fun of others or just to profit by the field (we know there are team''running away'' from others and just pick the ''easy fields'') we need solution to be fair to each others.

We are supposed to be grown ups and responsible for our actions, so once you click the inscribe button you are responsible for that action

Ok, I will explain it a third time:

- I register in the morning before I go to work for the race in the afternoon
- I often come home 5 or 10 minutes before the race starts

I can understand in some cases, that this makes tactical sense what Schartner suggests. But I think it will also support sucking and building the own team a way to exploit others. And like I said: I don´t mean someone in the discussion here.

But that is not my main problem. My main problem are two points:

1st) It does not really solve the problem, to ride boring tours with only 7 or 8 teams when you saw 14 registered before. It gives you only a chance to change your lineup then. So it´s no fairness-improvement, it´s an tactical improvement but only makes sense when the problem already appears. The real problem will be solved by Gips suggestion:
"2.) Show a team in the participant list if and only if they have all riders inscribed, so that no fake registration appears. Problem: People could still go out in the last second before the start."
Yes, it still has the problem, that teams can still unsubscribe. But it´s still more effective than the suggestion with the two subscription steps. And I guess the teams which subscribe without inscribing the riders, won´t inscribe riders just to get online right in time one minute before the inscription ended. This is a high risk and I think it will scare off most of the teams.
2nd) Does it make the inscription process unnecessarily complex. Gips solution 2 won´t do this.

I don´t see the problem as big as others here, especially because right now there are so many things in this game which should have priority to not letting the game die in a new version which will never be ready, but I can understand the problem. Although your wish is a tactical one and no moral one of fairness. And like I said, I think the solution I described here is more effective and practical.

[Pokemon Club]

Hum... More than how many teams there is in the field, knowing which teams are register is the main problem. That influence too much some managers on their lineup. I would let only the numbers of teams register without showing who is in.

[Carry Rhodan]

My proposal:

a fee of 15 000 credits will be charged for each registration. At the end of the race, these will be refunded. This would make fake registrations much less attractive. Viewing the list of registered teams should still be free of charge, but you will only be listed after paying the fee.

It also makes RSF more realistic, as costs would also be incurred in reality.


Rhodan Underdogs

[Robyklebt]

My view:

A non-issue. Actually the whole discussion is tempting me to start doing fake inscriptions if anything.
Otherwise... if I'm able to inscribe my team without adapting it to what I guess other teams will bring to the race, so should everybody else. Chose your team according to the profile and what you have at your disposal. Not according to what other teams might show up.

[flockmastoR]

I don't see a reason why this should be a problem at all but easiest way is to just show teams that have a valid lineup subscriped to the race.

Why make things too complicated for things that are really no problem. If you want to avoid teams or adapt your line-up to other teams for tactical reasons you have to live with the fact you cannot be 100% sure that team A is really there or team B will leave the subscription last minute.

I register my team to the next race right after the race starts for at least 80% of the cases. Just to make sure which riders I want to have fit the next day. If I see on the next day that I might not be able to ride the race I unsubscripe again, why punish me with losing credits AND the possibility to ride?

I do some field checking also sometimes but if I just have to live with last time changes that's part of the game.

[Schartner Bombe]

My view:

A non-issue. Actually the whole discussion is tempting me to start doing fake inscriptions if anything.
Otherwise... if I'm able to inscribe my team without adapting it to what I guess other teams will bring to the race, so should everybody else. Chose your team according to the profile and what you have at your disposal. Not according to what other teams might show up.

usually you are for a realistic race - better, you even preach it ,-))
so profile is the one thing, which team is in, the other thing which makes it more realistic. so its an issue