Team attack Vuelta 16h

Discussion about fairness-stuff. Advices of breach of rules and so on.

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CircleCycle
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Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by CircleCycle » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:06 am

Hi,
actually not my business, but still someone has to report it...
clear breaking of the rules during stage 7 of Vuelta 16h at km113

Km: 113, Steigung: 0
Franz Ruttenböck (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert
Pierre Bourquenoud (Rasmussen) geht mit
Michael Dreier (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert
Armin Meier (Rasmussen) geht mit
Silvan Dillier (Rasmussen) geht mit
Pascal Koch (Jäger-LeCultre) geht mit
Viktor Radjanvi (bernardsport) geht mit

followed by
Km: 114, Steigung: 7
Sebastian Sorger (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert
Samuel Schwald (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert

which of course was allowed.
If I remember correctly J-LC was the only manager online and just continued afterwards, everyone else was offline. He took p1 and p2, decided gc and what else, don't know, it doesn't matter anyway.

Kindly ask FPK to check this, thanks, and have a nice weekend

Rasmussen
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by Rasmussen » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:58 am

Stage 15 another team attack? I wasnt online, so I cant say if he dropped some riders...

Km: 54, Steigung: -5
Aaron Webb (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert

Km: 53, Steigung: -2
Daniel Paradis (Rasmussen) schafft es nicht an die Spitze

Km: 52, Steigung: 3

Km: 51, Steigung: 5
Samuel Schwald (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert
Sebastian Sorger (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert

Km: 50, Steigung: 2
Michael Dreier (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert
Silvan Dillier (Rasmussen) geht mit
Pascal Koch (Jäger-LeCultre) geht mit
Vladimir Kralev (Herakles) geht mit
Nedko Todorov (Herakles) geht mit
Franz Ruttenböck (Jäger-LeCultre) attackiert

Hunsrueck
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by Hunsrueck » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:43 pm

fpc is reviewing this case

GreenMotion
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by GreenMotion » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:54 am

Hallo,

sorry my english is not very good.
can we discuss this in German?

In Stage 15 Ruttenböck was falling at the Team Attack. (I saw and reported in chat - ruttenböck fall)
In Stage 7 i´m not sure! I ask in the chat, nobody online, rasmussen also had 3 riders in front.
- it was not all the whole race offline, on my question in the chat no one answered - even later not in the race

luques
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by luques » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:51 am

Lazy Luques has a question, how is the 3rd rule in other languages?

Because in the first team attack, Rasmussen follows with 3 in the same km, as for "italian" rules it should be not penalized, but that translation can be misleading.

team fl
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by team fl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:58 am

luques wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:51 am
Lazy Luques has a question, how is the 3rd rule in other languages?

Because in the first team attack, Rasmussen follows with 3 in the same km, as for "italian" rules it should be not penalized, but that translation can be misleading.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5523&p=98493#p98481
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

GreenMotion
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by GreenMotion » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:46 pm

I was not sure about stage 7 - I asked
- rassmusen was also with 3 here
- then dropped one (a wrong one) and started up again with him
- All offline, the p1, p2 I had done anyway
- In addition, I asked in the chat, but did not get an answer - no later or the next day
- I did not even ride with the rider (all were off)
- when I wanted to hang Maier, I rode, because I was persecuted (rassmusen)
- I wrote in the chat that would be enough for me 2 min - I then kept it (could have ridden faster)

I know that it was a Team Attack (I have read it after stage 7) but I won the race anyway.
There was no intention behind it, so I apologized immediately at the second time and let Ruttenböck fall.

Anyway, it was a mistake of mine.
Can you post the link regarding fairplay penalties?

Thank you
Jäger-LeCultre

team fl
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by team fl » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:03 pm

There is no Link like that.
I didn't mean to say it. But I meant what I said.

GreenMotion
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by GreenMotion » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:05 pm

I'm not sure but I thought I saw something when I started (about 1 year ago).
Can deceive me as well

GreenMotion
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by GreenMotion » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Hello,
meanwhile I got the penalty. This is of course ok, since it was my mistake! There is nothing to doubt about that.

But:
In the sense of transparent decision-making, I would be very happy if I get some information about this.
How is the sum made up?
What was punished? (Stage 7, 15?)
Were other managers punished in this case? (if not, why not, if so, how high and in which relation it is my punishment)

Kind regards
Jäger-LeCultre

auxilium torino
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by auxilium torino » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:14 pm

luques wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:51 am
Lazy Luques has a question, how is the 3rd rule in other languages?

Because in the first team attack, Rasmussen follows with 3 in the same km, as for "italian" rules it should be not penalized, but that translation can be misleading.
veramente, Luques?
3. Attacco di squadra concatenato, questo accade quando più di 2 corridori dello stesso team attaccano o contrattaccano un'altro corridore nello stesso km partendo dallo stesso gruppo. Questa regola non si applica se l'attacco è di più di 10 ciclisti (essendo di almeno quattro squadre diverse,) oppure il gruppo da cui attaccano ha,al momento degli attacchi,meno di 15 ciclisti. Inoltre non si applica a nei km con pendenze uguali o superiori al 4% ,e negli ultimi 20 chilometri di gara. Nessuna esenzione per i giocatori che non sono in linea!

Sono 3 a seguire, e`team attac di entrambi, mi sembra abbastanza chiaro!
Allenatore Italia - Manager Dainese OG 10 bronzo TTT
Manager SantiNelli WC 10/10 argento TT
Manager SantiNelli WC 3/11 6/11Oro TT
Allenatore Italia WC 9/11 Oro RR
Non contare mai il numero dei tuoi avversari... affrontali!
Multi hostes, multus honor

luques
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by luques » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:45 pm

Il problema è che si tratta di seguire UN altro corridore, cosa che potrebbe indurre in errore facendo pensare che puoi contrattaccare con 2 un corridore e contrattaccare con 1 un altro corridore.

Cioè può sembrare che il vincolo sia solo nei follow su un corridore e non sui follow massimi per quel km.

auxilium torino
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by auxilium torino » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:26 pm

Diciamo che la tua e`un interpretazione molto "politichese"...ti vedrei bene con Renzi alle prossime elezioni... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Allenatore Italia - Manager Dainese OG 10 bronzo TTT
Manager SantiNelli WC 10/10 argento TT
Manager SantiNelli WC 3/11 6/11Oro TT
Allenatore Italia WC 9/11 Oro RR
Non contare mai il numero dei tuoi avversari... affrontali!
Multi hostes, multus honor

Hunsrueck
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Re: Team attack Vuelta 16h

Post by Hunsrueck » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:33 am

PENALTY SUBMITTED: FINE OF120000, WARNING: NO

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